"Janice Sellers" <janice@seismosoc.org> wrote

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could
be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice,

"Chnigavigaberna" appears to be the Chernigov Guberniya [now Chernihiv
Oblast' (Province)] of Ukraine.

Both towns, Bachmach (now Bakhmach) and Gluchow (now Hluchiv) were (are)
located within this Guberniya.

Best,

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta

"Janice Sellers" <janice@seismosoc.org> wrote

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could
be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice,

"Chnigavigaberna" appears to be the Chernigov Guberniya [now Chernihiv
Oblast' (Province)] of Ukraine.

Both towns, Bachmach (now Bakhmach) and Gluchow (now Hluchiv) were (are)
located within this Guberniya.

Best,

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta

Dear Elisabeth,

My paternal grandfather, Gustavus Isaac FRANKEL served during WW1 in
the Royal Army Medical Corps. He was gassed and was awarded the Croix
de Guerre. He owned a printing business in Commercial Road, Stepney

from 1920 onwards. When WW2 started, being too old to join up, he was

involved as an air raid warden for the area. He was also a long-time
scouter with the No.1 East London Troop, and raised a lot of money
amongst the scouting "alumni."

I recently acquired some newspaper clippings >from my mother. I will
go through them and see if your father was mentioned. This is
something you could also ask of the Tower Hamlets Local History
Collection or SKS who lives there to do for you.

Best wishes,

Jeremy G Frankel
ex-Edgware, London, England
Berkeley, California, USA

Dear Elisabeth,

My paternal grandfather, Gustavus Isaac FRANKEL served during WW1 in
the Royal Army Medical Corps. He was gassed and was awarded the Croix
de Guerre. He owned a printing business in Commercial Road, Stepney

from 1920 onwards. When WW2 started, being too old to join up, he was

involved as an air raid warden for the area. He was also a long-time
scouter with the No.1 East London Troop, and raised a lot of money
amongst the scouting "alumni."

I recently acquired some newspaper clippings >from my mother. I will
go through them and see if your father was mentioned. This is
something you could also ask of the Tower Hamlets Local History
Collection or SKS who lives there to do for you.

Best wishes,

Jeremy G Frankel
ex-Edgware, London, England
Berkeley, California, USA

David Laufer writes: "If he [KLEPPER] was a knacker, perhaps he worked in
close cooperation with a leather merchant. Were there any LEDERERs in
Hermanuv Mestec?"

This little Jewish community in the Chrudimer Kreis, Bohemia is very
interesting. It comprises of 71 families with Schutz, and three without -
a Jewish population of about 300 in 1793. It is full of Hausierer [peddlers],
Schnittwaren [fabric lengths] dealers and tailors/dressmakers. A veritable
hive of activity.

There is only one baker - the widow Ester LUSTIGEN. You would have to visit
house No 19 to buy your fresh rolls, daily or perhaps just on Fridays for
the special Sabbath bread.

There are two raw leather merchants: Joseph LEDERER [house No 49] with
wife Rosalia, son Beer and two daughters Sara and Susanna. The other leather
dealer is Isak POKORNY, married to Ester.

I have another surprise for David - there is a Nathan KLOPERER - [o umlaut]
who is a glovemaker. The bookbinder, obviously a purchaser of leather, is
Moissess [sic] BRUK [umlaut]. The cobbler is called Isak HOFMANN - and he
has a wife and four daughters!

The glazier is convenienty called Abraham GLASSMANN [house No 51] and he
has a son Philip and daughter Martha.

There are also two widows named BANDLERIN and a BANDLER family [bandl =
tapes and ribbons,] who should by their names be Posamentierer, but they are
Schnittwaren dealers! The actual Posamentierer are called Dawid FISCHER
[house No 36], Dawid SPITZ [house No 53] and Jakob LEBENTHAL. Imagine,
three Posamentierer in this tiny community in 1793. In Vienna today,
according to Viennese Fred Posamentir [I have his permission to quote]
there is only one - presumably because fashions have changed and a Swedish
store, with a four-lettered name starting with *I*, has taken over with
ready-made blinds and curtains.

I believe that the most important leather merchant is Bernard POLAK who
lives in the Herrschaft but in Moraschitz [Morasice] - he has the
Moraschitz leather concession; his birthplace is given as Schebekow/
Sebekovice [okr Trebic].

So here in Hermanuv Mestec/Herzman Mniestez we do have two professions
represented - a glazier and a leather dealer with the appropriate family
names: GLASSMANN and LEDERER.

I checked our message archives and there is not one reference to GLASSMANN,
but we do have have many LEDERER hits since the SIG commenced. Our keen
Sigger, Peter Lowe [U.K.] also has a family connection to this area
[please search our archives with keyword *Hermanuv*]. GLASSMANN does not
appear on the JGFF either under Czech Republic. There is only one GLASSMANN

from Poland and many GLASSMAN mainly >from Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Russia

and Latvia.

LEBENTHAL has one hit on the JGFF >from Poland. POKORNY has one hit >from
our SIG [Puklitz Moravia]. The other JGFF *POKORNY* hits are for Poland
and Slovakia.

I have checked out these names on Yad Vashem as well -there are very many
tragic victims called POKORNY >from Bohemia, Moravia and Vienna but
GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL victims appear to be mainly of Polish and Galician
origin.

Could our craftsmen GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL >from Hermanuv Mestec perhaps
have been immigrants >from Poland/Galicia? I will have to check the 1793
census to see how many more there are with these names and if so, where
they lived. This might hopefully tie in with one or two recent postings about
Galician immigrants to Bohemia and Moravia.

Celia Male [U.K.]

David Laufer writes: "If he [KLEPPER] was a knacker, perhaps he worked in
close cooperation with a leather merchant. Were there any LEDERERs in
Hermanuv Mestec?"

This little Jewish community in the Chrudimer Kreis, Bohemia is very
interesting. It comprises of 71 families with Schutz, and three without -
a Jewish population of about 300 in 1793. It is full of Hausierer [peddlers],
Schnittwaren [fabric lengths] dealers and tailors/dressmakers. A veritable
hive of activity.

There is only one baker - the widow Ester LUSTIGEN. You would have to visit
house No 19 to buy your fresh rolls, daily or perhaps just on Fridays for
the special Sabbath bread.

There are two raw leather merchants: Joseph LEDERER [house No 49] with
wife Rosalia, son Beer and two daughters Sara and Susanna. The other leather
dealer is Isak POKORNY, married to Ester.

I have another surprise for David - there is a Nathan KLOPERER - [o umlaut]
who is a glovemaker. The bookbinder, obviously a purchaser of leather, is
Moissess [sic] BRUK [umlaut]. The cobbler is called Isak HOFMANN - and he
has a wife and four daughters!

The glazier is convenienty called Abraham GLASSMANN [house No 51] and he
has a son Philip and daughter Martha.

There are also two widows named BANDLERIN and a BANDLER family [bandl =
tapes and ribbons,] who should by their names be Posamentierer, but they are
Schnittwaren dealers! The actual Posamentierer are called Dawid FISCHER
[house No 36], Dawid SPITZ [house No 53] and Jakob LEBENTHAL. Imagine,
three Posamentierer in this tiny community in 1793. In Vienna today,
according to Viennese Fred Posamentir [I have his permission to quote]
there is only one - presumably because fashions have changed and a Swedish
store, with a four-lettered name starting with *I*, has taken over with
ready-made blinds and curtains.

I believe that the most important leather merchant is Bernard POLAK who
lives in the Herrschaft but in Moraschitz [Morasice] - he has the
Moraschitz leather concession; his birthplace is given as Schebekow/
Sebekovice [okr Trebic].

So here in Hermanuv Mestec/Herzman Mniestez we do have two professions
represented - a glazier and a leather dealer with the appropriate family
names: GLASSMANN and LEDERER.

I checked our message archives and there is not one reference to GLASSMANN,
but we do have have many LEDERER hits since the SIG commenced. Our keen
Sigger, Peter Lowe [U.K.] also has a family connection to this area
[please search our archives with keyword *Hermanuv*]. GLASSMANN does not
appear on the JGFF either under Czech Republic. There is only one GLASSMANN

from Poland and many GLASSMAN mainly >from Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Russia

and Latvia.

LEBENTHAL has one hit on the JGFF >from Poland. POKORNY has one hit >from
our SIG [Puklitz Moravia]. The other JGFF *POKORNY* hits are for Poland
and Slovakia.

I have checked out these names on Yad Vashem as well -there are very many
tragic victims called POKORNY >from Bohemia, Moravia and Vienna but
GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL victims appear to be mainly of Polish and Galician
origin.

Could our craftsmen GLASSMANN and LEBENTHAL >from Hermanuv Mestec perhaps
have been immigrants >from Poland/Galicia? I will have to check the 1793
census to see how many more there are with these names and if so, where
they lived. This might hopefully tie in with one or two recent postings about
Galician immigrants to Bohemia and Moravia.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Bernie the two words mean the same. You don't give a date for the
Business Directory but I will assume that it >from the inter-war
years. These earlier Directories were written in both Polish and French.
Skory - Polish = leathers / hides
Cuirs - French = leathers

As a trade / business it would translate as "Leather Goods".

Susana Leistner Bloch

At 01:00 AM 8/4/2005,Bernard Kouchel wrote :

Bernie the two words mean the same. You don't give a date for the
Business Directory but I will assume that it >from the inter-war
years. These earlier Directories were written in both Polish and French.
Skory - Polish = leathers / hides
Cuirs - French = leathers

As a trade / business it would translate as "Leather Goods".

Susana Leistner Bloch

At 01:00 AM 8/4/2005,Bernard Kouchel wrote :

Until 1884 there was no set 0 longitude location (prime meridian). As long
as the cartographer said where he was measuring >from that was OK.
The most famous places aside >from Greenwich, are Philadelphia, Jerusalem
and Ferro (Ferro is the smallest and furthest south and west of the Canary
Islands which are just off Northern Africa). Ferro was called for a very
long time the prime meridian (except by the British).
In 1884 the international meridian conference decided that Greenwich
England will be the universal prime meridian.

So when reading a map look at the bottom so you can gather all the
information correctly.

Merav Schejtman
Jerusalem

===A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) , 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?

Steven B. Tesser

Until 1884 there was no set 0 longitude location (prime meridian). As long
as the cartographer said where he was measuring >from that was OK.
The most famous places aside >from Greenwich, are Philadelphia, Jerusalem
and Ferro (Ferro is the smallest and furthest south and west of the Canary
Islands which are just off Northern Africa). Ferro was called for a very
long time the prime meridian (except by the British).
In 1884 the international meridian conference decided that Greenwich
England will be the universal prime meridian.

So when reading a map look at the bottom so you can gather all the
information correctly.

Merav Schejtman
Jerusalem

===A second question: the 3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary,
at
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
the (East-West) , 45
minutes. That is, the longitudes shown at the top of the map are
consistently 17 degrees, 45 minutes too high.

That would make sense if they started with the zero longitude running
(North-South) through the western end of cornwall, or something. Has
anyone noticed theis problem with the map?

Steven B. Tesser

Dear JGenners,

Thanks to a generous grant >from Gesher Galicia, we have been
able to translate a substantial remaining portion of the YIzkor Book
for Rozhnyatov. Most of the YB is now translated and available at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Rozniatow/Rozhnyatov.html . The text
has been translated by Jerrold Landau with help >from Isak Shteyn, and
the material handled efficiently by Joyce Field and Lance Ackerfeld.
It is a pleasure to acknowledge these contributions, which have made
the results available to all who wish to learn more about Rozhnyatov
and the surrounding communities.

But, we urgently need your help to complete the translation
promptly. If you wish to contribute to the book's translation over
the web, please click on JewishGen's secure fund raiser page and be
sure to select Rozhnyatov

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

I urge you to also contribute an additional amount to JewishGen,
which provides, at no charge, all of the expensive infrastructure for
this project and all the many others that we all enjoy.

For those who feel uncomfortable using credit cards on the web, you
can always simply mail a check (or send a fax with credit card info)
payable to JewishGen, Inc. (with a note earmarking the funds for the
Rozhnyatov Yizkor Book Project) to:

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Dr,, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573
U.S./Canada Fax # (toll free): 888-539-4362
International Fax #: 1-281-535-2204

Please note that JewishGen, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c) 3
organization; therefore, you may be able to claim an income tax
deduction for any donations, depending on your personal tax situation.

Many thanks for you indulgence and I apologize if you receive
multiple copies of this fund raising email.
--
Thomas Fischer Weiss
Newton, MA
USA
tfweiss@mit.edu
Researching:
FRENKEL (Buchach, Vienna); BUCHHALTER (Skalat); ENGEL (Vienna);
FISCHER (Hriskov, Schlan, Prague); FRAENKEL, FRUCHTER (Rozhnyatov,
Vienna); KATZ (Schlan); KLEPETAR (Jistebnice); MEISELS (Nadworna,
Vienna); OLLOP (Vienna); ORLIK (Pohor, Jistebnice, Benesov, Tabor);
QUADRATSTEIN (Vienna, Saarbrucken); VODICKA (Dobronitz, Jistebnice,
Benesov, Tabor)

Dear JGenners,

Thanks to a generous grant >from Gesher Galicia, we have been
able to translate a substantial remaining portion of the YIzkor Book
for Rozhnyatov. Most of the YB is now translated and available at
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/Rozniatow/Rozhnyatov.html . The text
has been translated by Jerrold Landau with help >from Isak Shteyn, and
the material handled efficiently by Joyce Field and Lance Ackerfeld.
It is a pleasure to acknowledge these contributions, which have made
the results available to all who wish to learn more about Rozhnyatov
and the surrounding communities.

But, we urgently need your help to complete the translation
promptly. If you wish to contribute to the book's translation over
the web, please click on JewishGen's secure fund raiser page and be
sure to select Rozhnyatov

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html

I urge you to also contribute an additional amount to JewishGen,
which provides, at no charge, all of the expensive infrastructure for
this project and all the many others that we all enjoy.

For those who feel uncomfortable using credit cards on the web, you
can always simply mail a check (or send a fax with credit card info)
payable to JewishGen, Inc. (with a note earmarking the funds for the
Rozhnyatov Yizkor Book Project) to:

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Dr,, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573
U.S./Canada Fax # (toll free): 888-539-4362
International Fax #: 1-281-535-2204

Please note that JewishGen, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c) 3
organization; therefore, you may be able to claim an income tax
deduction for any donations, depending on your personal tax situation.

Many thanks for you indulgence and I apologize if you receive
multiple copies of this fund raising email.
--
Thomas Fischer Weiss
Newton, MA
USA
tfweiss@mit.edu
Researching:
FRENKEL (Buchach, Vienna); BUCHHALTER (Skalat); ENGEL (Vienna);
FISCHER (Hriskov, Schlan, Prague); FRAENKEL, FRUCHTER (Rozhnyatov,
Vienna); KATZ (Schlan); KLEPETAR (Jistebnice); MEISELS (Nadworna,
Vienna); OLLOP (Vienna); ORLIK (Pohor, Jistebnice, Benesov, Tabor);
QUADRATSTEIN (Vienna, Saarbrucken); VODICKA (Dobronitz, Jistebnice,
Benesov, Tabor)

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice Sellers
Oakland, California

Researching ORLOWSKY (Gluchow, Bachmach), LUBINSKY, OBERSTEIN (Grodno),
PEREDEIKO/TEREDEIKO (Grodno)

Dear Jewishgenners,

I am trying to determine what a correct town name is. Louis LUBINSKY
married Fanny (Ferma) ROSSIN in Russia. Fanny always said she was from
"Chnigavigaberna" and that Louis used to be the town bouncer there before
they came to the U.S. (about 1881-1882). I've run the phonetic spelling I
was given through ShtetlSeeker and came up with only two possibilities. I
would expect the town to be not too far >from Gluchow and Bachmach, as
Louis' sister Elke married an ORLOWSKY who was supposed to have been from
that area. Of the two matches in ShtetlSeeker, Senkevichevka is in
Ukraine, but it's almost 400 miles away. (The other match is in Poland,
about 700 miles away.) I welcome any ideas on what the town names could be
and/or other ways to research it. Thank you all in advance for any
assistance.

Janice Sellers
Oakland, California

Researching ORLOWSKY (Gluchow, Bachmach), LUBINSKY, OBERSTEIN (Grodno),
PEREDEIKO/TEREDEIKO (Grodno)

<It would certainly be true >from what he says that a marriage of a Jew and a
Christian would technically be possible in a church although both parties
were not baptised.>

Jessie Kyezor, daughter of Louis Kyezor, married David Kauffman on 11
January 1844 at Willesden Paraish Church (London). The bride, and possibly the
groom also, was under age and this was probably an elopement. The church
authorities made hardly any attempt to check the couple's details. Thus their
address was given as Willesden whereas in fact they lived in central London. In
May 1844 the couple were again married, at the bride's address, 16 Tottenham
Court Road, under the auspices of the Maiden Lane Synagogue.

Harold Pollins
Oxford

<It would certainly be true >from what he says that a marriage of a Jew and a
Christian would technically be possible in a church although both parties
were not baptised.>

Jessie Kyezor, daughter of Louis Kyezor, married David Kauffman on 11
January 1844 at Willesden Paraish Church (London). The bride, and possibly the
groom also, was under age and this was probably an elopement. The church
authorities made hardly any attempt to check the couple's details. Thus their
address was given as Willesden whereas in fact they lived in central London. In
May 1844 the couple were again married, at the bride's address, 16 Tottenham
Court Road, under the auspices of the Maiden Lane Synagogue.

Harold Pollins
Oxford

In response to Steven's first issue:

"r" is for recte, which is Latin for correctly. So Hilzenrad r Nagler
means the surname Hilzenrad was used, but legally the surname Nagler
should have been used. Your assumption of Hilzenrad being the father's
surname and Nagler being the mother's surname is probably correct, but
you really need to interpret the "r" or recte based on the other facts
for the family. If the child was illegitimate (nieslubne in Polish),
your assumption is more credible.

"f" is for false, also a Latin term. Nagler f Hilzenrad for an
illegitimate child would likely mean that the father was Hilzenrad and
mother was Nagler, but this must be in context. There are no hard and
fast rules and has nothing to do with the Polish language.

I have seen many of these types of records >from Galicia and the
inconsistency of use >from town to town and registrar to registrar amazes
me.

To find more discussion of recte and false, search the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archives and the SIG Lists message Archive, especially
the Galicia SIG list.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

In response to Steven's first issue:

"r" is for recte, which is Latin for correctly. So Hilzenrad r Nagler
means the surname Hilzenrad was used, but legally the surname Nagler
should have been used. Your assumption of Hilzenrad being the father's
surname and Nagler being the mother's surname is probably correct, but
you really need to interpret the "r" or recte based on the other facts
for the family. If the child was illegitimate (nieslubne in Polish),
your assumption is more credible.

"f" is for false, also a Latin term. Nagler f Hilzenrad for an
illegitimate child would likely mean that the father was Hilzenrad and
mother was Nagler, but this must be in context. There are no hard and
fast rules and has nothing to do with the Polish language.

I have seen many of these types of records >from Galicia and the
inconsistency of use >from town to town and registrar to registrar amazes
me.

To find more discussion of recte and false, search the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archives and the SIG Lists message Archive, especially
the Galicia SIG list.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

I have posted the writing >from the back of a photo of a man and a woman.
The date of the photo is 30 May 1959 (in Russian). Could some kind soul please
tell me what is written in Yiddish?

Here is the direct link:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/all/viewmateview.asp?key=6531

Please respond privately to
rgerber30@together.net

Thanks!

-Rebecca Gerber

I have posted the writing >from the back of a photo of a man and a woman.
The date of the photo is 30 May 1959 (in Russian). Could some kind soul please
tell me what is written in Yiddish?

Here is the direct link:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/all/viewmateview.asp?key=6531

Please respond privately to
rgerber30@together.net

Thanks!

-Rebecca Gerber