Date   

Help with Cyrillic ViewMate posting, residence of groom/father please. #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I have posted part of two Cyrillic documents, a M and a B record >from the
town Gorzkow, LU, Poland, abt. 45 km SSE of Lublin in Krasnystaw district.

The groom's hometown is rather a surprise so I need help - confirmation or
correction - of my reading. I am helping a new researcher who has waited
several years to find this evidence of her Gorzkow family, her mother the
only survivor of her family and reluctant to talk - so it is very
important I do not lead her astray.

A translation as such is not needed, just the geography, please.

1) A marriage >from 1897. I read the groom Dawid Wulf DYCHTWALD's hometown
to be Wodzislaw where he lives/lived with his parents. Correct? The bride
is a native of Gorzkow. The record is located at

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6605

2) The second document is a birth record for Ester Blima DYCHTWALD >from
1900 - above couple's first(?) child Ester Blima. Here I read the father
to be now residing in Wladyslawow district(gmina), Konin ueyzda(county),
Kalisz Gubern.(province). This is quite a way >from Wodzislaw and even
longer >from Gorzkow but I can only read it that way. The records is
located at

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6604

Thanks

Kirsten Gradel
Nyborg, Denmark
Zamosc Archives Project Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

e-mail: kmgradel@dadlnet.dk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help with Cyrillic ViewMate posting, residence of groom/father please. #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I have posted part of two Cyrillic documents, a M and a B record >from the
town Gorzkow, LU, Poland, abt. 45 km SSE of Lublin in Krasnystaw district.

The groom's hometown is rather a surprise so I need help - confirmation or
correction - of my reading. I am helping a new researcher who has waited
several years to find this evidence of her Gorzkow family, her mother the
only survivor of her family and reluctant to talk - so it is very
important I do not lead her astray.

A translation as such is not needed, just the geography, please.

1) A marriage >from 1897. I read the groom Dawid Wulf DYCHTWALD's hometown
to be Wodzislaw where he lives/lived with his parents. Correct? The bride
is a native of Gorzkow. The record is located at

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6605

2) The second document is a birth record for Ester Blima DYCHTWALD >from
1900 - above couple's first(?) child Ester Blima. Here I read the father
to be now residing in Wladyslawow district(gmina), Konin ueyzda(county),
Kalisz Gubern.(province). This is quite a way >from Wodzislaw and even
longer >from Gorzkow but I can only read it that way. The records is
located at

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6604

Thanks

Kirsten Gradel
Nyborg, Denmark
Zamosc Archives Project Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

e-mail: kmgradel@dadlnet.dk


The Name "Yekhiel" #general

Stan Golembe <ocstan@...>
 

Dear Genners

I received over 25 replies to my inquiry concerning the name Yekhiel. I want
to thank all those who responded and helped me decide on how to treat this
problem. You are a great group. Only one reply drew a connection, based on a
family member's name, between Yechiel and Isaac. All the others pointed to
references that this is a historically "stand alone" name. In light of this
overwhelming response, I will not assume Yechiel to be another name for one
of my proven family members, but will assume he is another previously
unknown son and continue to search for information on him.

Incidentally, for those of you who are working with old Russian and
Belarussian documents such as censuses, draft lists, etc, be very wary of
names you encounter. I have found people spelled different ways in different
documents quite often.

Stan Golembe
Canton, MA

Searching for GALEMBA, GOLEMBE, GALEMBE, (Other variants on this),
Lyachovichi, Lachwa, Nobel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Name "Yekhiel" #general

Stan Golembe <ocstan@...>
 

Dear Genners

I received over 25 replies to my inquiry concerning the name Yekhiel. I want
to thank all those who responded and helped me decide on how to treat this
problem. You are a great group. Only one reply drew a connection, based on a
family member's name, between Yechiel and Isaac. All the others pointed to
references that this is a historically "stand alone" name. In light of this
overwhelming response, I will not assume Yechiel to be another name for one
of my proven family members, but will assume he is another previously
unknown son and continue to search for information on him.

Incidentally, for those of you who are working with old Russian and
Belarussian documents such as censuses, draft lists, etc, be very wary of
names you encounter. I have found people spelled different ways in different
documents quite often.

Stan Golembe
Canton, MA

Searching for GALEMBA, GOLEMBE, GALEMBE, (Other variants on this),
Lyachovichi, Lachwa, Nobel


Re: Understanding a phrase on a tombstone #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 04:42:11 UTC, IsraelP@pikholz.org (Israel P)
opined:

I am a Hebrew speaker, but I am having trouble with a line on a tombstone at
http://www.pikholz.org/ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg which is my wife's g-g-
gf's grave.

I cannot figure out the context of "tam ruach" in the the third line. Or
is tam perhaps a verb in this case?

Israel Pickholtz
Hi, Israel...

I must not understand the problem. This line looks very much in
keeping with the usual headstone inscriptions. The evident goal in
such inscriptions is to get as many conventional formulae in as
possible. As in any poetry, it possible to argue with literal
translations of individual words. I read the line thus:

"A man of many works, pure of spirit, an innocent and honest man".


--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address
is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form

there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Understanding a phrase on a tombstone #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 04:42:11 UTC, IsraelP@pikholz.org (Israel P)
opined:

I am a Hebrew speaker, but I am having trouble with a line on a tombstone at
http://www.pikholz.org/ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg which is my wife's g-g-
gf's grave.

I cannot figure out the context of "tam ruach" in the the third line. Or
is tam perhaps a verb in this case?

Israel Pickholtz
Hi, Israel...

I must not understand the problem. This line looks very much in
keeping with the usual headstone inscriptions. The evident goal in
such inscriptions is to get as many conventional formulae in as
possible. As in any poetry, it possible to argue with literal
translations of individual words. I read the line thus:

"A man of many works, pure of spirit, an innocent and honest man".


--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address
is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the
URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form

there.


Re: Can't find Dolhinif, Russia #general

Jules Levin
 

At 05:27 AM 8/6/2005, you wrote:

I retreived my uncle's Petition for Citizenship - on it is "I was born
in Dolhinif, Russia on March 9, 1905".

Can not find town, village, city or anything about this?
Arnold,

This is Dolginovo (ex Dolginuv, Dolginov, or Dolhinow) located near the
larger town Vileyka in Belarus at 5439 2729.
I concur with Alexander Sharon. The spelling and the actual name reveal
that we cannot allow ourselves to be too influenced by formal spelling
rules of contemporary Slavic languages. Although spelled with a Cyrillic
'g', in the local dialect, now called Belarusan, but more likely known to
the locals in 1905 as simply "prosta mova"--the simple tongue, to
distinguish it >from Lithuanian, this would have been pronounced like a
voiced velar fricative, like the 'g' in agua in some Spanishes, and no
doubt represented in English by 'h'. Not only was this the normal
pronunciation of 'hard' 'g' in Belarus, but also in vast areas of Southern
Russia, extending North quite close to the southern reaches of Moscow. The
spelling -if at the end is not a bad rendering of the unstressed final
syllable.
Jules Levin
Professor of Russian and Linguistics, Emeritus
UCLA, UCR
Los Angeles


Re: Understanding a phrase on a tombstone #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/7/2005 12:37:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
IsraelP@pikholz.org writes:

< I am having trouble with a line on a tombstone at
_http://www.pikholz.org/ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg_ (http://www.pikholz.org/
ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg)
which is my wife's g-g-gf's grave. >
I cannot figure out the context of "tam ruach" in the the third line. >

==I consider "tam" generally as best translated "unpretentious." Tam ru'ach
could be an expression meaning "unpretentious style," or "calm personality,"
or "easygoing."

==After all, the mason had to fill eight acrostic and rhyming lines with
about seven words a line. Some of those phrases were statistically necessary to
be less precise or felicitous than others.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Can't find Dolhinif, Russia #general

Jules Levin
 

At 05:27 AM 8/6/2005, you wrote:

I retreived my uncle's Petition for Citizenship - on it is "I was born
in Dolhinif, Russia on March 9, 1905".

Can not find town, village, city or anything about this?
Arnold,

This is Dolginovo (ex Dolginuv, Dolginov, or Dolhinow) located near the
larger town Vileyka in Belarus at 5439 2729.
I concur with Alexander Sharon. The spelling and the actual name reveal
that we cannot allow ourselves to be too influenced by formal spelling
rules of contemporary Slavic languages. Although spelled with a Cyrillic
'g', in the local dialect, now called Belarusan, but more likely known to
the locals in 1905 as simply "prosta mova"--the simple tongue, to
distinguish it >from Lithuanian, this would have been pronounced like a
voiced velar fricative, like the 'g' in agua in some Spanishes, and no
doubt represented in English by 'h'. Not only was this the normal
pronunciation of 'hard' 'g' in Belarus, but also in vast areas of Southern
Russia, extending North quite close to the southern reaches of Moscow. The
spelling -if at the end is not a bad rendering of the unstressed final
syllable.
Jules Levin
Professor of Russian and Linguistics, Emeritus
UCLA, UCR
Los Angeles


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Understanding a phrase on a tombstone #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/7/2005 12:37:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
IsraelP@pikholz.org writes:

< I am having trouble with a line on a tombstone at
_http://www.pikholz.org/ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg_ (http://www.pikholz.org/
ZH/Graves/AharonShelomo.jpg)
which is my wife's g-g-gf's grave. >
I cannot figure out the context of "tam ruach" in the the third line. >

==I consider "tam" generally as best translated "unpretentious." Tam ru'ach
could be an expression meaning "unpretentious style," or "calm personality,"
or "easygoing."

==After all, the mason had to fill eight acrostic and rhyming lines with
about seven words a line. Some of those phrases were statistically necessary to
be less precise or felicitous than others.

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: MARGULIES/MARGOLIOTH Rabbinic Dynasty #rabbinic

Yisrael Asper
 

On 2005.08.04, Dan Rottenberg <d.rottenberg@verizon.net> had written:

One reason that casts doubt on a connection:
1. My great-grandfather Louis MARGULIES (1864-1923) was a Levite,
according to his gravestone. I've found nothing in any rabbinic
literature to indicate that the rabbinical MARGOLIOTHs were Levites.
On 2005.08.05, Tomer Brunner <tomerbr@hotmail.com> replied:

I don't know if this is the case, but generally, it is possible
that a Levite ancestor (with whatever surname) was married into
a non-Levite MARGOLIOTH family and took his wife's surname.
I knew a woman who passed away whose maiden name was MARGOLIS. She
was told by her father that they were a widespread family. That
little piece of information at least traced her back to the founder
of the family Rabbi Moshe MARGOLIS of Mironda and his wife Margola
(after whose name the name Margolis is derived). There is definitely
a tradition that Rabbi Moshe MARGOLIS of Mironda was descended from
Rashi. I have never read how though. I haven't yet gotten Dr. Neil
Rosenstein's book on the MARGOLIS family. The name MARGOLIS was
passed through the male and female lines.

Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: MARGULIES/MARGOLIOTH Rabbinic Dynasty #rabbinic

Yisrael Asper
 

On 2005.08.04, Dan Rottenberg <d.rottenberg@verizon.net> had written:

One reason that casts doubt on a connection:
1. My great-grandfather Louis MARGULIES (1864-1923) was a Levite,
according to his gravestone. I've found nothing in any rabbinic
literature to indicate that the rabbinical MARGOLIOTHs were Levites.
On 2005.08.05, Tomer Brunner <tomerbr@hotmail.com> replied:

I don't know if this is the case, but generally, it is possible
that a Levite ancestor (with whatever surname) was married into
a non-Levite MARGOLIOTH family and took his wife's surname.
I knew a woman who passed away whose maiden name was MARGOLIS. She
was told by her father that they were a widespread family. That
little piece of information at least traced her back to the founder
of the family Rabbi Moshe MARGOLIS of Mironda and his wife Margola
(after whose name the name Margolis is derived). There is definitely
a tradition that Rabbi Moshe MARGOLIS of Mironda was descended from
Rashi. I have never read how though. I haven't yet gotten Dr. Neil
Rosenstein's book on the MARGOLIS family. The name MARGOLIS was
passed through the male and female lines.

Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


Re: Obtaining a match 7+ generations ago #dna

egrdn@...
 

On 2005.08.06, Marilyn Feingold <mrl516@bellsouth.net> asked:

I am considering doing a 12, 25, or 37 panel test to see if my male
lineage is the same as another male lineage with the same last name
that came >from a nearby shtetl in the Ukraine. Can some tell me what
their experience has been with these tests."
I am involved in two Y-DNA projects, one of which is for my Jewish
line and one for another line. Both of them have been very
worthwhile. The GOLDSHOLL tests matched a GOLDSHOLL and a
GOLDSHOLLE. There has been family debate for years as to whether
these two families were related. A common ancestor would have been
before 1900 and probably a generation or more before that date.

While we did not get a perfect 37 marker match, the two men who
tested matched on 35 out of 37 markers. Given the circumstances of
proximity in Europe and almost matching surnames, this was enough to
convince us that the two families are indeed related. The two
mismatched markers were both among the markers which mutate most
rapidly, and one of the two wasn't exactly a mismatch. Instead it
was an extra marker, something that happens >from time to time at
Marker 464 within the J2 Haplogroup.

The other surname project I am involved with has 34 members and we
have learned a great deal about who is and is not related through
Y-DNA testing. Be forewarned, however, that there can be
uncomfortable discoveries: at least one person found through DNA
testing that he was not related to the people he thought he was
related to.

Eleanor Gordon


DNA Research #DNA Re: Obtaining a match 7+ generations ago #dna

egrdn@...
 

On 2005.08.06, Marilyn Feingold <mrl516@bellsouth.net> asked:

I am considering doing a 12, 25, or 37 panel test to see if my male
lineage is the same as another male lineage with the same last name
that came >from a nearby shtetl in the Ukraine. Can some tell me what
their experience has been with these tests."
I am involved in two Y-DNA projects, one of which is for my Jewish
line and one for another line. Both of them have been very
worthwhile. The GOLDSHOLL tests matched a GOLDSHOLL and a
GOLDSHOLLE. There has been family debate for years as to whether
these two families were related. A common ancestor would have been
before 1900 and probably a generation or more before that date.

While we did not get a perfect 37 marker match, the two men who
tested matched on 35 out of 37 markers. Given the circumstances of
proximity in Europe and almost matching surnames, this was enough to
convince us that the two families are indeed related. The two
mismatched markers were both among the markers which mutate most
rapidly, and one of the two wasn't exactly a mismatch. Instead it
was an extra marker, something that happens >from time to time at
Marker 464 within the J2 Haplogroup.

The other surname project I am involved with has 34 members and we
have learned a great deal about who is and is not related through
Y-DNA testing. Be forewarned, however, that there can be
uncomfortable discoveries: at least one person found through DNA
testing that he was not related to the people he thought he was
related to.

Eleanor Gordon


Israel address #general

Neil@...
 

Looking to confirm an old Israel address in Raanana for
Jutkowitz family on Chashmonaim.
Please confirm and include phone number.
I tried Bezek but I do not have Hebrew font to make it work.
thanks
Dr. Neil Rosenstein
Elizabeth, N.J.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Israel address #general

Neil@...
 

Looking to confirm an old Israel address in Raanana for
Jutkowitz family on Chashmonaim.
Please confirm and include phone number.
I tried Bezek but I do not have Hebrew font to make it work.
thanks
Dr. Neil Rosenstein
Elizabeth, N.J.


ISAACS, PRIESMAN, HARRIS 1890 NY? MN? #general

jewishgen@juno.com <jewishgen@...>
 

According to the 1900 Federal Census for Minneapolis, Abraham ISAACS,
an "iron yard manager" born in 1862, immigrated >from Russia, apparently
about 1872. (The handwriting is hard to read). The 1920 census suggests
Abe came to this country in 180 and may not have been naturalized until
1898 (again, hard t read).

Abe, who aparently did marry his wife, Bluma Rivka
until about 1898 was previously married, possibly to women with the
surnames HARRIS and PRIESMAN.

Since Abe's sister lived in New York I think Abe probably lived there
with one of his former wives and his older children about 1890. If
anyone can find either a New York or Minneapolis listing for Abe and
his family [including children, Benjamin, Mirtle (a misspelling of
Myrtle?), Meyer and Harry] I would most appreciate them letting me know.

Abe lived with Bluma on 7th Avenue North in Minneapolis 1900 and at 909
Logan Avenue in Minneapolis in 1920 and in 1930. Don't know where they
were in 1910.
Thank you.

Stacy Harris
Nashville, Tennessee


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ISAACS, PRIESMAN, HARRIS 1890 NY? MN? #general

jewishgen@juno.com <jewishgen@...>
 

According to the 1900 Federal Census for Minneapolis, Abraham ISAACS,
an "iron yard manager" born in 1862, immigrated >from Russia, apparently
about 1872. (The handwriting is hard to read). The 1920 census suggests
Abe came to this country in 180 and may not have been naturalized until
1898 (again, hard t read).

Abe, who aparently did marry his wife, Bluma Rivka
until about 1898 was previously married, possibly to women with the
surnames HARRIS and PRIESMAN.

Since Abe's sister lived in New York I think Abe probably lived there
with one of his former wives and his older children about 1890. If
anyone can find either a New York or Minneapolis listing for Abe and
his family [including children, Benjamin, Mirtle (a misspelling of
Myrtle?), Meyer and Harry] I would most appreciate them letting me know.

Abe lived with Bluma on 7th Avenue North in Minneapolis 1900 and at 909
Logan Avenue in Minneapolis in 1920 and in 1930. Don't know where they
were in 1910.
Thank you.

Stacy Harris
Nashville, Tennessee


Name of Ward in Canadian 1911 Census?? #general

Flo Elman
 

I'm hoping that someone can identify an electoral ward for me in Montreal,
Quebec, Canada & send me the name/s.
The streets that it would contain are:
Clark Street
*** St. Urbain Street (this is the one I think my grandparents lived on)
Colonial Street
Rachel Street
De Bullion Street
& possibly Mount Royal

I've been going through the St. Louis Ward ( Large Jewish immigrant
population), but the names I'm researching (NERENBERG - Sam; GOLDSMAN -
Velvel or William; ZINMAN - Nucham) aren't in them.

The URL of the census is
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/0201_e.html

Thanks,
Florence Elman
haflo@shaw.ca


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Name of Ward in Canadian 1911 Census?? #general

Flo Elman
 

I'm hoping that someone can identify an electoral ward for me in Montreal,
Quebec, Canada & send me the name/s.
The streets that it would contain are:
Clark Street
*** St. Urbain Street (this is the one I think my grandparents lived on)
Colonial Street
Rachel Street
De Bullion Street
& possibly Mount Royal

I've been going through the St. Louis Ward ( Large Jewish immigrant
population), but the names I'm researching (NERENBERG - Sam; GOLDSMAN -
Velvel or William; ZINMAN - Nucham) aren't in them.

The URL of the census is
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/0201_e.html

Thanks,
Florence Elman
haflo@shaw.ca