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Surnames: EREVITS/EREBETS/GOROVITZ #general

TE <tome1111@...>
 

I'm researching the name EREVITS/EREBETS, possibly GOROVITZ.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Surnames: EREVITS/EREBETS/GOROVITZ #general

TE <tome1111@...>
 

I'm researching the name EREVITS/EREBETS, possibly GOROVITZ.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA


A little knowledge... Was: Re: name Grisha #general

Jules Levin
 

At 07:59 AM 4/14/2005, you wrote:
2) Russian doesn't have the G sound (G as in good; they certainly have G as
in gyroscope...)
Is it only in Jewish lists that everyone's an expert? ;-)
Standard Russian absolutely *does* have the "G sound", and it *does not* have
"G as in gyroscope" except in foreign words like /dzhyn/
'genie'. Standard Russian does not have the /h/ in house, but educated
Russians will pronounce Haydn, Hitler, etc., more or less correctly, at
least not with the hard /g/. The Russian/Belarusian/Ukrainian dialects
that our ancestors mostly heard pronounced the Russian /g/ as a voiced
velar fricative, like the /g/ in Spanish agua, or (Ukr) as an /h/, and did
not use the regular /g/.
Also, gregori is not a Russian name; it is grigoriy. Georgiy, the name of
Russia's patron saint, has a literary flavor, and most likely would have
been more familiar to assimilated town Jews rather than village Jews who
only spoke with the local peasants. Yuriy, though not connected, is the
popular equivalent of Georgiy, and its nickname, Yura, may be more common
as a nickname for Georgij than Grisha, which I am only familiar with for
Grigoriy.
Jules Levin
Professor of Russian and Linguistics, Emeritus
UCLA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen A little knowledge... Was: Re: name Grisha #general

Jules Levin
 

At 07:59 AM 4/14/2005, you wrote:
2) Russian doesn't have the G sound (G as in good; they certainly have G as
in gyroscope...)
Is it only in Jewish lists that everyone's an expert? ;-)
Standard Russian absolutely *does* have the "G sound", and it *does not* have
"G as in gyroscope" except in foreign words like /dzhyn/
'genie'. Standard Russian does not have the /h/ in house, but educated
Russians will pronounce Haydn, Hitler, etc., more or less correctly, at
least not with the hard /g/. The Russian/Belarusian/Ukrainian dialects
that our ancestors mostly heard pronounced the Russian /g/ as a voiced
velar fricative, like the /g/ in Spanish agua, or (Ukr) as an /h/, and did
not use the regular /g/.
Also, gregori is not a Russian name; it is grigoriy. Georgiy, the name of
Russia's patron saint, has a literary flavor, and most likely would have
been more familiar to assimilated town Jews rather than village Jews who
only spoke with the local peasants. Yuriy, though not connected, is the
popular equivalent of Georgiy, and its nickname, Yura, may be more common
as a nickname for Georgij than Grisha, which I am only familiar with for
Grigoriy.
Jules Levin
Professor of Russian and Linguistics, Emeritus
UCLA


Norton Halpern/Halperin or Norton Gould #general

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Genners,
If you happen to know of a Norton HALPERN (unsure of spelling, might be
HALPERIN or HALPERT) or Norton GOULD >from Baltimore, Maryland, possibly now
residing in Florida please pass this email on to him or his family.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Norton Halpern/Halperin or Norton Gould #general

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Genners,
If you happen to know of a Norton HALPERN (unsure of spelling, might be
HALPERIN or HALPERT) or Norton GOULD >from Baltimore, Maryland, possibly now
residing in Florida please pass this email on to him or his family.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


Re: name Grisha #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Benzy Shani" wrote

Nathan is right on both counts.

There are two primary ways a Jew ended up Grisha.
1) A G-starting Russian name was taken or given as a civil name (usually
Georgi and Gregori), in conjuction with whatever Hebrew-Jewish name was
carried (usually this would have been a Gimel-starting name like Gershon or
Gavriel, but not necessarily). The road >from Georgi and Gregori to Grisha
needs no further explanation, and the road back to the English equivalents -
George and Gregory - is no more difficult.
2) Russian doesn't have the G sound (G as in good; they certainly have G as
in gyroscope...) so many a Hirsch (Tzvi) walked around being Grisha. (I
remember one of my trumpet teachers telling me to "drop everything else and
work on the Gaydn").
When Hirsch's entered the English-speaking world, many of them became
Harry's. Bambi could also work, but it's not as common....
Few observations:

1. Diminutive for Russian Georgi (Georgij) is not Grisha but Gosha,
sometimes fancy Goga or Zhora as evolved >from English George (Russian
Dzordzh). In Ukrainian Grisha is known as Hryc >from Hryhory (Gregory).

2. Russian uses hard sound "g" (as in Gorbachiov), they do not use sound
"h", hence Golivood, Gaiti, Gavana, Gonduras, Gonolulu and Gonkong.

It is Ukrainian that has no use of hard sound 'g',

Akexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: name Grisha #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Benzy Shani" wrote

Nathan is right on both counts.

There are two primary ways a Jew ended up Grisha.
1) A G-starting Russian name was taken or given as a civil name (usually
Georgi and Gregori), in conjuction with whatever Hebrew-Jewish name was
carried (usually this would have been a Gimel-starting name like Gershon or
Gavriel, but not necessarily). The road >from Georgi and Gregori to Grisha
needs no further explanation, and the road back to the English equivalents -
George and Gregory - is no more difficult.
2) Russian doesn't have the G sound (G as in good; they certainly have G as
in gyroscope...) so many a Hirsch (Tzvi) walked around being Grisha. (I
remember one of my trumpet teachers telling me to "drop everything else and
work on the Gaydn").
When Hirsch's entered the English-speaking world, many of them became
Harry's. Bambi could also work, but it's not as common....
Few observations:

1. Diminutive for Russian Georgi (Georgij) is not Grisha but Gosha,
sometimes fancy Goga or Zhora as evolved >from English George (Russian
Dzordzh). In Ukrainian Grisha is known as Hryc >from Hryhory (Gregory).

2. Russian uses hard sound "g" (as in Gorbachiov), they do not use sound
"h", hence Golivood, Gaiti, Gavana, Gonduras, Gonolulu and Gonkong.

It is Ukrainian that has no use of hard sound 'g',

Akexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


Census Record Initials/Family Trees on Websites #general

clea <clea@...>
 

In response to the question about initials on census records, I have found
several records where the US census taker did not list my family members by
name and used only initials. This could indicate that the census taker took
information >from a neighbor, that he was unfamiliar with the language
spoken, etc. The differences in name spellings between different census
years points out just how much more research needs to be done after finding
a record. There are also discrepancies in ages which I think points to a
fact another genner pointed to - our ancestors were less concerned with time
and dates than we are - and when you had nine kids you may not have named
the correct age!

I too have found trees submitted by "strangers" to both free and a
commercial site. Several of these I have contacted and found they did have
some distant relation through marriage or whatever and had been following
lines out farther and farther and were not related in a direct way. I am
more disturbed by shoddy research - much of what I find is incorrect and
people are claiming people that are not related - my great great step
grandfather was claimed because his name was spelled incorrectly in one
census year! These trees can mislead other researchers for generations and
take up a lot of valuable time - in the antique shops they sometimes sell
old photos as "instant relatives" - that is exactly what this sort of tree
building can lead to - I think the instant options on one commercial web
site can lead to fuzzy thinking. I think these sites should place
requirements on documentation of sources - that would help discourage lazy
research and provide material for verification for later researchers.

Carolyn Lea
Bowling Green, Oh 43402
clea@...

Research ID# 152314


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Census Record Initials/Family Trees on Websites #general

clea <clea@...>
 

In response to the question about initials on census records, I have found
several records where the US census taker did not list my family members by
name and used only initials. This could indicate that the census taker took
information >from a neighbor, that he was unfamiliar with the language
spoken, etc. The differences in name spellings between different census
years points out just how much more research needs to be done after finding
a record. There are also discrepancies in ages which I think points to a
fact another genner pointed to - our ancestors were less concerned with time
and dates than we are - and when you had nine kids you may not have named
the correct age!

I too have found trees submitted by "strangers" to both free and a
commercial site. Several of these I have contacted and found they did have
some distant relation through marriage or whatever and had been following
lines out farther and farther and were not related in a direct way. I am
more disturbed by shoddy research - much of what I find is incorrect and
people are claiming people that are not related - my great great step
grandfather was claimed because his name was spelled incorrectly in one
census year! These trees can mislead other researchers for generations and
take up a lot of valuable time - in the antique shops they sometimes sell
old photos as "instant relatives" - that is exactly what this sort of tree
building can lead to - I think the instant options on one commercial web
site can lead to fuzzy thinking. I think these sites should place
requirements on documentation of sources - that would help discourage lazy
research and provide material for verification for later researchers.

Carolyn Lea
Bowling Green, Oh 43402
clea@...

Research ID# 152314


Tips on the Relationship of Internet Search Engines for Genealogists #general

Chris and Tom Tinney, Sr. <vctinney@...>
 

Tips on the Relationship of Internet Search Engines
for Genealogists and Family Historians

Before beginning genealogy and family history research
on the Internet, it is of critical importance to know how
information is provided by the different search engines.

For maximum search engine utilization, use
the Search Engine Decoder Relationship Chart, at:
http://www.search-this.com/search_engine_decoder.asp
This site will clearly and graphically present who supplies
and receives results, among the major search sites.

For further information, see:
Top Search Engines and Directories:
Genealogy and Family History Internet Portals and Browsers
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/topsearchenginesdirectories.htm

Respectfully yours,

Tom Tinney, Sr.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Tips on the Relationship of Internet Search Engines for Genealogists #general

Chris and Tom Tinney, Sr. <vctinney@...>
 

Tips on the Relationship of Internet Search Engines
for Genealogists and Family Historians

Before beginning genealogy and family history research
on the Internet, it is of critical importance to know how
information is provided by the different search engines.

For maximum search engine utilization, use
the Search Engine Decoder Relationship Chart, at:
http://www.search-this.com/search_engine_decoder.asp
This site will clearly and graphically present who supplies
and receives results, among the major search sites.

For further information, see:
Top Search Engines and Directories:
Genealogy and Family History Internet Portals and Browsers
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/topsearchenginesdirectories.htm

Respectfully yours,

Tom Tinney, Sr.


Norton Halpern/Halperin or Norton Gould #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Genners,
If you happen to know of a Norton Halpern (unsure of spelling, might be
Halperin or Halpert) or Norton Gould >from Baltimore, Maryland, possibly now
residing in Florida please pass this email on to him or his family.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Norton Halpern/Halperin or Norton Gould #ukraine

TE <tome1111@...>
 

Genners,
If you happen to know of a Norton Halpern (unsure of spelling, might be
Halperin or Halpert) or Norton Gould >from Baltimore, Maryland, possibly now
residing in Florida please pass this email on to him or his family.

Thanks,

Tom Erribe
CA


Re: Belchatow Birds of a Feather--------- Meeting at IAJGS Conference - -correction #lodz #poland

Roni S. Liebowitz
 

Dear Members,

Sorry about the misprint---I corrected it to Las Vegas, but guess it didn't
get to the list in time.

"A LARG (Lodz Area Research Group) SIG meeting will be held at the IAJGS
Conference in _Las Vegas_ this summer. The exact date and time should be
posted on their website in May. In addition, several of you also expressed
an interest in a Belchatow BOF (Birds of a Feather) get together. We had a
BOF meeting in Washington, DC which was very successful in terms of making
family connections and sharing research specific to this
shtetl.....snip.........."

Hope to see you there,
Roni Seibel Liebowitz


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Re: Belchatow Birds of a Feather--------- Meeting at IAJGS Conference - -correction #poland #lodz

Roni S. Liebowitz
 

Dear Members,

Sorry about the misprint---I corrected it to Las Vegas, but guess it didn't
get to the list in time.

"A LARG (Lodz Area Research Group) SIG meeting will be held at the IAJGS
Conference in _Las Vegas_ this summer. The exact date and time should be
posted on their website in May. In addition, several of you also expressed
an interest in a Belchatow BOF (Birds of a Feather) get together. We had a
BOF meeting in Washington, DC which was very successful in terms of making
family connections and sharing research specific to this
shtetl.....snip.........."

Hope to see you there,
Roni Seibel Liebowitz


Important message from JewishGen... #france

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

Dear All,

JewishGen has asked us to post this important notice
to all of our SIGs. Please read carefully.
=================================
In joining this private mailing list you acknowledge
that you will not copy any messages posted and send
them off to other lists to which you may be
subscribed. Each subscriber has the right to expect
their privacy will be observed by other members and
that e-mail address and shared information or comments
posted to this mailing list will not turn up in other
forums.
==================================
Thanks you for abiding by this ruling!

Rosanne Leeson
Pierre Hahn
Co-Coordinators
FrenchSIG


French SIG #France Important message from JewishGen... #france

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

Dear All,

JewishGen has asked us to post this important notice
to all of our SIGs. Please read carefully.
=================================
In joining this private mailing list you acknowledge
that you will not copy any messages posted and send
them off to other lists to which you may be
subscribed. Each subscriber has the right to expect
their privacy will be observed by other members and
that e-mail address and shared information or comments
posted to this mailing list will not turn up in other
forums.
==================================
Thanks you for abiding by this ruling!

Rosanne Leeson
Pierre Hahn
Co-Coordinators
FrenchSIG


Re: name Grisha #general

Nathan Reiss <nreiss@...>
 

Alan Schuchat writes:

Grisha is the Russian diminutive of Gregor.
and Benzy Shani writes:

At one point or another in his life, just about every Grigori
in the Russian-speaking world has been referred to as Grisha;
every Aleksander Sasha; every Mikhail Misha; every Maria Masha....

It's important to recognize that while Grisha may be used as a diminutive of
Gregor and Sasha as a diminutive of Aleksander, the same diminutives are
also commonly used for other names that have some of the same consonants
and/or vowels in them. For example, Grisha can also be a diminutive for
Georgi. Sasha can be a diminutive for a particularly large variety of names,
both male and female, containing an "sa" sound, including Samuel, Salomon,
Sarah, etc.

Since the original query was "what the Yiddish and English equivalents might
be", it's important to add that while there are some preferred candidates,
there is no unique answer.

Nathan Reiss
Highland Park, NJ
reiss@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: name Grisha #general

Nathan Reiss <nreiss@...>
 

Alan Schuchat writes:

Grisha is the Russian diminutive of Gregor.
and Benzy Shani writes:

At one point or another in his life, just about every Grigori
in the Russian-speaking world has been referred to as Grisha;
every Aleksander Sasha; every Mikhail Misha; every Maria Masha....

It's important to recognize that while Grisha may be used as a diminutive of
Gregor and Sasha as a diminutive of Aleksander, the same diminutives are
also commonly used for other names that have some of the same consonants
and/or vowels in them. For example, Grisha can also be a diminutive for
Georgi. Sasha can be a diminutive for a particularly large variety of names,
both male and female, containing an "sa" sound, including Samuel, Salomon,
Sarah, etc.

Since the original query was "what the Yiddish and English equivalents might
be", it's important to add that while there are some preferred candidates,
there is no unique answer.

Nathan Reiss
Highland Park, NJ
reiss@...