Date   

Rabbi Ios YANKELEVITCH #rabbinic

Elaine Solas <eb.solas@...>
 

I am searching for my ancestor, Rabbi Ios YANKELEVICH who was a
rabbi in Kozmino, Podulsk. He may have been >from Kopyl, Grosovo, or
Timkovichi. Can anyone tell me how to find his dates? His family?

Thanks
Elaine Solas
mailto:eb.solas@worldnet.att.net


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Rabbi Ios YANKELEVITCH #rabbinic

Elaine Solas <eb.solas@...>
 

I am searching for my ancestor, Rabbi Ios YANKELEVICH who was a
rabbi in Kozmino, Podulsk. He may have been >from Kopyl, Grosovo, or
Timkovichi. Can anyone tell me how to find his dates? His family?

Thanks
Elaine Solas
mailto:eb.solas@worldnet.att.net


Pre 1826 LDS films #ciechanow #poland

Stan Zeidenberg
 

Here is a reply that I received today (privately) to my earlier posting.
See below.

Stan Zeidenberg
Toronto, Canada
Ciechanow Research Group, Coordinator
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(the reply)

Fabulous idea. I have already started it.

There are 6 films containing pre-1826 Roman Catholic civil records for
Ciechanow numbered 702,772 - 777. The records I've perused thus far are
chock full of Jewish records.

Like the rest of this area, while there are scattered surnames as far back
as the beginning of the records, by May 1822 surnames appear to have been
mandatory.

I have already extracted the surnamed records. I had created a database of
these, then my hard drive crashed before I sent it to JRI-PL. I still have
a hard copy, I just have to re-enter the data. Now that I hear you're
interested, I will do it in the next few days and get it off to you. The
database will contain all the Jewish records >from these films for May 1822
through December 1825 (just over 250 records, counting marriages as one).
There were specifically Jewish indexes, but I recall them being very poorly
numbered (especially 1825) and many of the Jewish records contained in the
book were not included in the index. Therefore, I made my data straight
from and true to the record, not the index. (Anybody who looked at the
Jewish indexes and did not find what they were looking for may be in for a
pleasant surprise.)

I have already begun the patronymic records also. Unlike the post-1826
records, rather than going >from Jan 1 to Dec 31 of a given year, they go
from May 1 to April 30, so the years are designated 1821/22, 1820/21, etc.
(since the record keeping began in May 1808). I have completed 1821/22 and
1820/21.

In addition to the Ciechanow films, there are others the group should
coordinate a look-through. After 1826, all Jews who lived in the Diocese of
Ciechanow were required to report their events in Ciechanow. Before 1826
(or possibly 1822, I'm not sure) they were allowed to report to their local
church elsewhere in the Diocese. Many of these civil records are also
available. The list of towns/churches and film numbers in the Diocese of
Ciechanow for which pre-1826 civil records are available is as follows:

Ciemniewko - 702,469 -70
Glinojeck - 702,474-75
Koziczynek - 702,787-88
Krasne - 702,791-92
Lekowo - 1,496,584 (7-8) - 1,496,585 (1-6)
Lopacin - 702,599
Lysakowo - 702,602
Maluzyn - 702,479-80
Niedzborz - 702,484
Sonsk - 702,614-15
Zenbok - 702,488
Zielona - 702,491-92

There were also churches in the diocese that claim to have had parish
records, but not civil records, >from this era. I don't believe anything
until I check it myself (or at least someone in the group checks it out).
These towns, and the numbers for their parish records are as follows:

Golymin - 702,587-88
Grudusk - 702,593-94
Kraszewo - 702,797
Opinogora - 702,606
Paluki - 702,609
Sulerzyz - 702,621


In addition, all the towns with civil records also have claimed parish
records.

While I haven't been through any of these records yet, I am fairly familiar
with the patronymic era records in the area. I supplied the patronymic
extractions to JRI-PL for Biezun, Chorzele, Kucbork and Pryzasnysz. While
these records are all in Polish and reasonably easy to read (with
exceptions), merely perusing the records will not generally help a person
find what they are looking for. They can be very confusing one record at a
time. (If you want an explaination as to why, I will forward an explanation
I just sent in response to an inquiry I received >from a person using my
Biezun database. I am sure the same is true for Ciechanow). The only way
to do justice in a search through these records is by an extraction of the
entire record and puzzling through the results. However, at the same time
it is exceptionally rewarding to find something. These records contain a
lot more information than the surname based records. For example, rather
than the professional witnesses of the later years, witnesses were generally
other family members - brothers, fathers-in-law, etc. Additionally, while
in the surname records you might get a man and his father both using the
same surname, in the patronymic records, if you get a man and his father,
you get the father's patronymic, which takes you back one generation
further. (I found, in Pryzasnysz, the 1811 marriage record of a set of my
Ciechanow GGGG grandparents which gave me the full set of all their parent's
names and some of their grandparents).

I planned on eventually doing this all myself, but it will take me years, if
not decades. I look forward to some coordinated assistance. Extracting
records is not difficult, just time consuming. People can help in two ways.
The most time consuming part is indentifying the Jewish records >from amongst
the set. You have to look at every record (the indexes are not reliable).
Then, you have to extract the info >from the Jewish ones. If someone is
unable to extract, they can still help by going through the film and
indentifying the Jewish records. This is fairly simple. I look/glance for
three things, a Hebrew signature at the bottom of the record, the Starhommey
(or whatever it is) before the name of the reporting witness, or, if the
record seems to contain all Jewish given names, I will record it even if it
does not have the other indicators (I always figure it is better to be
over-inclusive). However, the Evangelicals also tended to use Biblical
names, so if I see any exclusively non-Jewish names (like Mary), I skip it.
You can skim the records for these indicators fairly quickly, but there are
a lot of records to skim through (6 films just for Ciechanow).


#Ciechanow #Poland Pre 1826 LDS films #ciechanow #poland

Stan Zeidenberg
 

Here is a reply that I received today (privately) to my earlier posting.
See below.

Stan Zeidenberg
Toronto, Canada
Ciechanow Research Group, Coordinator
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(the reply)

Fabulous idea. I have already started it.

There are 6 films containing pre-1826 Roman Catholic civil records for
Ciechanow numbered 702,772 - 777. The records I've perused thus far are
chock full of Jewish records.

Like the rest of this area, while there are scattered surnames as far back
as the beginning of the records, by May 1822 surnames appear to have been
mandatory.

I have already extracted the surnamed records. I had created a database of
these, then my hard drive crashed before I sent it to JRI-PL. I still have
a hard copy, I just have to re-enter the data. Now that I hear you're
interested, I will do it in the next few days and get it off to you. The
database will contain all the Jewish records >from these films for May 1822
through December 1825 (just over 250 records, counting marriages as one).
There were specifically Jewish indexes, but I recall them being very poorly
numbered (especially 1825) and many of the Jewish records contained in the
book were not included in the index. Therefore, I made my data straight
from and true to the record, not the index. (Anybody who looked at the
Jewish indexes and did not find what they were looking for may be in for a
pleasant surprise.)

I have already begun the patronymic records also. Unlike the post-1826
records, rather than going >from Jan 1 to Dec 31 of a given year, they go
from May 1 to April 30, so the years are designated 1821/22, 1820/21, etc.
(since the record keeping began in May 1808). I have completed 1821/22 and
1820/21.

In addition to the Ciechanow films, there are others the group should
coordinate a look-through. After 1826, all Jews who lived in the Diocese of
Ciechanow were required to report their events in Ciechanow. Before 1826
(or possibly 1822, I'm not sure) they were allowed to report to their local
church elsewhere in the Diocese. Many of these civil records are also
available. The list of towns/churches and film numbers in the Diocese of
Ciechanow for which pre-1826 civil records are available is as follows:

Ciemniewko - 702,469 -70
Glinojeck - 702,474-75
Koziczynek - 702,787-88
Krasne - 702,791-92
Lekowo - 1,496,584 (7-8) - 1,496,585 (1-6)
Lopacin - 702,599
Lysakowo - 702,602
Maluzyn - 702,479-80
Niedzborz - 702,484
Sonsk - 702,614-15
Zenbok - 702,488
Zielona - 702,491-92

There were also churches in the diocese that claim to have had parish
records, but not civil records, >from this era. I don't believe anything
until I check it myself (or at least someone in the group checks it out).
These towns, and the numbers for their parish records are as follows:

Golymin - 702,587-88
Grudusk - 702,593-94
Kraszewo - 702,797
Opinogora - 702,606
Paluki - 702,609
Sulerzyz - 702,621


In addition, all the towns with civil records also have claimed parish
records.

While I haven't been through any of these records yet, I am fairly familiar
with the patronymic era records in the area. I supplied the patronymic
extractions to JRI-PL for Biezun, Chorzele, Kucbork and Pryzasnysz. While
these records are all in Polish and reasonably easy to read (with
exceptions), merely perusing the records will not generally help a person
find what they are looking for. They can be very confusing one record at a
time. (If you want an explaination as to why, I will forward an explanation
I just sent in response to an inquiry I received >from a person using my
Biezun database. I am sure the same is true for Ciechanow). The only way
to do justice in a search through these records is by an extraction of the
entire record and puzzling through the results. However, at the same time
it is exceptionally rewarding to find something. These records contain a
lot more information than the surname based records. For example, rather
than the professional witnesses of the later years, witnesses were generally
other family members - brothers, fathers-in-law, etc. Additionally, while
in the surname records you might get a man and his father both using the
same surname, in the patronymic records, if you get a man and his father,
you get the father's patronymic, which takes you back one generation
further. (I found, in Pryzasnysz, the 1811 marriage record of a set of my
Ciechanow GGGG grandparents which gave me the full set of all their parent's
names and some of their grandparents).

I planned on eventually doing this all myself, but it will take me years, if
not decades. I look forward to some coordinated assistance. Extracting
records is not difficult, just time consuming. People can help in two ways.
The most time consuming part is indentifying the Jewish records >from amongst
the set. You have to look at every record (the indexes are not reliable).
Then, you have to extract the info >from the Jewish ones. If someone is
unable to extract, they can still help by going through the film and
indentifying the Jewish records. This is fairly simple. I look/glance for
three things, a Hebrew signature at the bottom of the record, the Starhommey
(or whatever it is) before the name of the reporting witness, or, if the
record seems to contain all Jewish given names, I will record it even if it
does not have the other indicators (I always figure it is better to be
over-inclusive). However, the Evangelicals also tended to use Biblical
names, so if I see any exclusively non-Jewish names (like Mary), I skip it.
You can skim the records for these indicators fairly quickly, but there are
a lot of records to skim through (6 films just for Ciechanow).


New Haven,CT-Port of Entry #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
Just spoke to an Israeli of American origin whose
grandfather came to the US >from Lithuania at around
1901 via New Haven,CT. There was a customs house in
New Haven and some ships which carried passengers
got them off board in New Haven. He claims that there
was quite a number of Jews who took this route.
I hope that this will open an avenue to those who do
not find their relatives on EIDB.
I have no idea where the records of New Haven are
kept.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen New Haven,CT-Port of Entry #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
Just spoke to an Israeli of American origin whose
grandfather came to the US >from Lithuania at around
1901 via New Haven,CT. There was a customs house in
New Haven and some ships which carried passengers
got them off board in New Haven. He claims that there
was quite a number of Jews who took this route.
I hope that this will open an avenue to those who do
not find their relatives on EIDB.
I have no idea where the records of New Haven are
kept.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem


Change in meeting time at the IAJGS conference #usa

RecordsAccess@...
 

I just got a look at the new program for our Birds of a Feather meeting of
the Early American Sig.

They have changed our time on TUESDAY to 5 PM to 6:15 PM.

It's probably a better time because some members said that they were going
to Sig Luncheons on Tuesday.

How does that time suit you? Please drop me a line.

And again, any suggestions for programs would be appreciated.

Marvin Weinberg Coordinator, Early American Sig RecordsAccess@aol.com


Early American SIG #USA Change in meeting time at the IAJGS conference #usa

RecordsAccess@...
 

I just got a look at the new program for our Birds of a Feather meeting of
the Early American Sig.

They have changed our time on TUESDAY to 5 PM to 6:15 PM.

It's probably a better time because some members said that they were going
to Sig Luncheons on Tuesday.

How does that time suit you? Please drop me a line.

And again, any suggestions for programs would be appreciated.

Marvin Weinberg Coordinator, Early American Sig RecordsAccess@aol.com


Re: 102 Norfolk St., New York City #general

Paul NMN B
 

I'm quoting >from Oscar Israelowitz's book "Lower East Side Tourbook",
1996. He lists, under a section he calls "Old Synagogues" the
following address' on Norfolk Street having a synagogue: 30 Norfolk
(4), 54 Norfolk, 60 Norfolk, 80 Norfolk (2) 119 Norfolk (3) 146 and 172
Norfolk street.

The numbers in ( ) are the different shules at that address and were
probably in different apartments in the buildings.

There is a photo of "The oldest synagogue structure in the city"
located at 172 Norfolk Street, built in 1849.

I hope this helps.

Paul Baranik
Florida
Searching: AGATA/AGATER, ROTSZTEIN, ANCMAN, MAGIET, ZILBERDRUT,GLANTZ, BAUM.
From: Klimontow, Staszow, Opatow, Warsaw and Ostrowiec, Poland

"Judith Lipmanson" <lipmanson@verizon.net> wrote

Does anyone know the name of a synagogue that was located at 102 Norfolk
St., NYC in 1871? The Old Norfolk St Synagogue, now an art museum/center,
is located at 172 Norfolk, and there is a well known synagogue at 60
Norfolk.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: 102 Norfolk St., New York City #general

Paul NMN B
 

I'm quoting >from Oscar Israelowitz's book "Lower East Side Tourbook",
1996. He lists, under a section he calls "Old Synagogues" the
following address' on Norfolk Street having a synagogue: 30 Norfolk
(4), 54 Norfolk, 60 Norfolk, 80 Norfolk (2) 119 Norfolk (3) 146 and 172
Norfolk street.

The numbers in ( ) are the different shules at that address and were
probably in different apartments in the buildings.

There is a photo of "The oldest synagogue structure in the city"
located at 172 Norfolk Street, built in 1849.

I hope this helps.

Paul Baranik
Florida
Searching: AGATA/AGATER, ROTSZTEIN, ANCMAN, MAGIET, ZILBERDRUT,GLANTZ, BAUM.
From: Klimontow, Staszow, Opatow, Warsaw and Ostrowiec, Poland

"Judith Lipmanson" <lipmanson@verizon.net> wrote

Does anyone know the name of a synagogue that was located at 102 Norfolk
St., NYC in 1871? The Old Norfolk St Synagogue, now an art museum/center,
is located at 172 Norfolk, and there is a well known synagogue at 60
Norfolk.


Re: Seeking GOTTLIEB #germany

Lars E. Menk <Lmenk@...>
 

GerSig member Marian Price <Bobmar37@aol.com> wrote:

My grandfather was Julius GOTTLIEB and his Gottliebs had been in Bosen
since at least 1770. His father, Salmon, had several sisters whom I've
never been able to trace. Their names and dates of birth are Dorothea
1828, Sophia 1829, Karolina 1837, and Gertraud 1839. (There were also
two brothers who came to America and I've traced their families). Anyway,
none of the sisters appear in marriage or death records for Bosen up to
1875. I assume they probably moved elsewhere and married but the
emigration records don't include their names. Where in Germany might
they have moved to?
You can often find family registers (Familienregister) at the registry
office (Standesamt) which give all names, birth dates and sometimes also
when a person married or moved away.

You can contact the registry office of Nohfelden-Bosen at:

Gemeinde Nohfelden
- Standesamt -
An der Burg
D-66625 Nohfelden / Germany
fon +49-6852-885-109
fax +49-6852-885-125
E-Mail: info@nohfelden.de
homepage http://www.nohfelden.de/

Another source of confusion is that Julius GOTTLIEB had some cousins whose
name was Levy. I assume they were first cousins but maybe not. The
cousin terminology was >from my mother.
I've often seen the term "cousin" for any kind of relative, so that really
doesn't have to be a first cousin.

Julius's sister Fanny married a cousin named Isador Levy and they lived
in Konz. He was not >from Bosen. It's a good guess that he was from
somewhere along the Mosel but where to look?
What makes you think that he was >from some place along the Mosel? Haven't
you found any banns of marriage in Bosen? Of course they could have married
anywhere - maybe even in Konz?

These questions could only be answered by doing direct research at the local
registry offices and public archives.

There's only one thing I can tell you for sure - most of the Jewish families
GOTTLIEB in Germany were living in the Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland:

Alten-Bamberg (1808); Bosen (1800); Ebernburg (1820); Gennweiler (18..);
Rockenhausen (1809); Saarburg (18..); Thalfang (1819); Woerrstadt (1827)

Good luck with your further research. Regards & Shalom,

Lars Menk Berlin, Germany Lmenk@gmx.net


Re: Jewish surnames #belarus

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Are such names demeaning in any way? Perhaps today, but I see no reason
why they should have been so in the past.

FEIGENBAUM refers to a tree that's mentioned in the Bible any number of
times, and that bears sweet fruit.

Herbs and spices were symbols of wealth and pleasure.

Cabbage was a commodity--perhaps something that someone sold for a
living. Thousands upon thousands of Germans, Americans, and others
today are named KOHL, which means cabbage. There are people named
PEPPER, too, not to mention APPLE, LEMON, etc. How did *they* get their
names?

How else did Jews get their names, you ask? Better to ask: do we have
any records of a local official who *did* assign names? Very few, if
any. Or of a list of "ridiculous" names for assignment to Jews? Well, no.

But we do have plenty of names that are derived >from beautiful objects
(flowers, gems, precious metals, trees, hills); professions; place
names; and so on. Do we have any evidence that people found these names
demeaning when they took them? No. Many people voluntarily chose names
that their families had had informally, sometimes for generations, some
of them not particularly complimentary by today's standards: DICKMANN
(fat man), KAHLER (baldpate), and so on. And many others didn't place
much weight on the whole issue at the time--just the latest requirement
being imposed, so pick something nice, or different, or whatever.

But again: how did the Gentiles get their surnames? In Germany, you
encounter the darndest names: KRAUTWURST (cabbage-sausage); KUCKUCK
(cuckoo--same associations as in English); WARMBIER (warm beer);
SAUERKRAUT; TEUFEL (devil); DUMM (stupid); PINKEPANK (our
next-door-neighbors for many years, and they didn't know the origin
either). Here in the US, there's the late congressman Jake PICKLE; and
I've met people named BOTTOM, CLUTTER, CRAPSTER, TURNIPSEED, etc. Over
in England, John CLEESE was born John CHEESE; and English history will
provide BUNNY, SPITTLE, and far worse.

Don't assume that, because you wouldn't want a certain sort of name,
people way back when would have felt the same way!

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ

Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

Those surnames aren't exactly "nasty", but they are certainly somewhat
demeaning and in that sense derogatory. And names of this type are so
common that they can't possibly have their basis in the original
assignee being in every case a vendor of the fruit or spice or herb in
question. So how else did these people get those names, other than
being assigned them by local officials -- or at least being required
to choose >from a list of such ridiculous names?


German SIG #Germany Re: Seeking GOTTLIEB #germany

Lars E. Menk <Lmenk@...>
 

GerSig member Marian Price <Bobmar37@aol.com> wrote:

My grandfather was Julius GOTTLIEB and his Gottliebs had been in Bosen
since at least 1770. His father, Salmon, had several sisters whom I've
never been able to trace. Their names and dates of birth are Dorothea
1828, Sophia 1829, Karolina 1837, and Gertraud 1839. (There were also
two brothers who came to America and I've traced their families). Anyway,
none of the sisters appear in marriage or death records for Bosen up to
1875. I assume they probably moved elsewhere and married but the
emigration records don't include their names. Where in Germany might
they have moved to?
You can often find family registers (Familienregister) at the registry
office (Standesamt) which give all names, birth dates and sometimes also
when a person married or moved away.

You can contact the registry office of Nohfelden-Bosen at:

Gemeinde Nohfelden
- Standesamt -
An der Burg
D-66625 Nohfelden / Germany
fon +49-6852-885-109
fax +49-6852-885-125
E-Mail: info@nohfelden.de
homepage http://www.nohfelden.de/

Another source of confusion is that Julius GOTTLIEB had some cousins whose
name was Levy. I assume they were first cousins but maybe not. The
cousin terminology was >from my mother.
I've often seen the term "cousin" for any kind of relative, so that really
doesn't have to be a first cousin.

Julius's sister Fanny married a cousin named Isador Levy and they lived
in Konz. He was not >from Bosen. It's a good guess that he was from
somewhere along the Mosel but where to look?
What makes you think that he was >from some place along the Mosel? Haven't
you found any banns of marriage in Bosen? Of course they could have married
anywhere - maybe even in Konz?

These questions could only be answered by doing direct research at the local
registry offices and public archives.

There's only one thing I can tell you for sure - most of the Jewish families
GOTTLIEB in Germany were living in the Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland:

Alten-Bamberg (1808); Bosen (1800); Ebernburg (1820); Gennweiler (18..);
Rockenhausen (1809); Saarburg (18..); Thalfang (1819); Woerrstadt (1827)

Good luck with your further research. Regards & Shalom,

Lars Menk Berlin, Germany Lmenk@gmx.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish surnames #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Are such names demeaning in any way? Perhaps today, but I see no reason
why they should have been so in the past.

FEIGENBAUM refers to a tree that's mentioned in the Bible any number of
times, and that bears sweet fruit.

Herbs and spices were symbols of wealth and pleasure.

Cabbage was a commodity--perhaps something that someone sold for a
living. Thousands upon thousands of Germans, Americans, and others
today are named KOHL, which means cabbage. There are people named
PEPPER, too, not to mention APPLE, LEMON, etc. How did *they* get their
names?

How else did Jews get their names, you ask? Better to ask: do we have
any records of a local official who *did* assign names? Very few, if
any. Or of a list of "ridiculous" names for assignment to Jews? Well, no.

But we do have plenty of names that are derived >from beautiful objects
(flowers, gems, precious metals, trees, hills); professions; place
names; and so on. Do we have any evidence that people found these names
demeaning when they took them? No. Many people voluntarily chose names
that their families had had informally, sometimes for generations, some
of them not particularly complimentary by today's standards: DICKMANN
(fat man), KAHLER (baldpate), and so on. And many others didn't place
much weight on the whole issue at the time--just the latest requirement
being imposed, so pick something nice, or different, or whatever.

But again: how did the Gentiles get their surnames? In Germany, you
encounter the darndest names: KRAUTWURST (cabbage-sausage); KUCKUCK
(cuckoo--same associations as in English); WARMBIER (warm beer);
SAUERKRAUT; TEUFEL (devil); DUMM (stupid); PINKEPANK (our
next-door-neighbors for many years, and they didn't know the origin
either). Here in the US, there's the late congressman Jake PICKLE; and
I've met people named BOTTOM, CLUTTER, CRAPSTER, TURNIPSEED, etc. Over
in England, John CLEESE was born John CHEESE; and English history will
provide BUNNY, SPITTLE, and far worse.

Don't assume that, because you wouldn't want a certain sort of name,
people way back when would have felt the same way!

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ

Judith Romney Wegner wrote:

Those surnames aren't exactly "nasty", but they are certainly somewhat
demeaning and in that sense derogatory. And names of this type are so
common that they can't possibly have their basis in the original
assignee being in every case a vendor of the fruit or spice or herb in
question. So how else did these people get those names, other than
being assigned them by local officials -- or at least being required
to choose >from a list of such ridiculous names?


Re: Jewish surnames #belarus

Alexander Sharon
 

"Roger Lustig" wrote

I might add that the author of [2] was a novelist who had no particular
qualifications as a historian or specialist in these matters, other than
having been Jewish and born and raised in Galicia.
I am afraid that I am in big trouble now, Roger.

You see, I am also a Jew, born and raised in Galicia. On top of this, I am
also not a professional historian.

The FAQ also describes Kaganoff as "error prone and no references given",
but seems to consider it worthwhile.
But all this doesn't answer my question: where are all the nasty names?
Do we find them in JRI-PL or FTJP? I'd love to see some of these names in
transcribed vital records. Anyone who has encountered such: please point
me to them!
A very good question, Roger.

If the enlighten Germans could at least provide a lists of those
Galitzyaners with the "nasty" names, before they have been "transported" to
K.L. Belzec, perhaps I'd be able answer your question.

As to the JRI-P listing - is it never occured to you that people could have
changed their names at the later stage - they have enough time to do it >from
the end of 18th century.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish surnames #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Roger Lustig" wrote

I might add that the author of [2] was a novelist who had no particular
qualifications as a historian or specialist in these matters, other than
having been Jewish and born and raised in Galicia.
I am afraid that I am in big trouble now, Roger.

You see, I am also a Jew, born and raised in Galicia. On top of this, I am
also not a professional historian.

The FAQ also describes Kaganoff as "error prone and no references given",
but seems to consider it worthwhile.
But all this doesn't answer my question: where are all the nasty names?
Do we find them in JRI-PL or FTJP? I'd love to see some of these names in
transcribed vital records. Anyone who has encountered such: please point
me to them!
A very good question, Roger.

If the enlighten Germans could at least provide a lists of those
Galitzyaners with the "nasty" names, before they have been "transported" to
K.L. Belzec, perhaps I'd be able answer your question.

As to the JRI-P listing - is it never occured to you that people could have
changed their names at the later stage - they have enough time to do it >from
the end of 18th century.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


Czledz Poland #general

Moses Lenzky <mlenzky@...>
 

Q.

I was told that there was a cemetary in Czledz that
was used by Jews and non Jews. Meaning one side Jew
the other side non Jews. If anyone knows where in
Czledz this cemetary is located?

M. Lenzky


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Czledz Poland #general

Moses Lenzky <mlenzky@...>
 

Q.

I was told that there was a cemetary in Czledz that
was used by Jews and non Jews. Meaning one side Jew
the other side non Jews. If anyone knows where in
Czledz this cemetary is located?

M. Lenzky


Re: Jewish surnames #belarus

Judith Romney Wegner
 

"Roger Lustig" wrote
More to the point: where is the evidence of the existence of
derogatory names in any quantity?
Surely this depends on what one means by "derogatory." For
instance, there are a huge number of surnames that are actually the
names of various spices or herbs or plants. Take names like
Pfefferkorn ("peppercorn") or Feigenbaum (figtree), or Kapusta
("cabbage") or Rumianek ("camomile")

These last two names were the surnames of two of my greatgrandparents
who married each other (does this make me a camomile-flavored
cabbage?) Despite descent >from a Rumianek, I happen to hate that
particular flavor -- although my husband loves it, which is probably
just as well!

Those surnames aren't exactly "nasty", but they are certainly
somewhat demeaning and in that sense derogatory. And names of this
type are so common that they can't possibly have their basis in the
original assignee being in every case a vendor of the fruit or spice
or herb in question. So how else did these people get those names,
other than being assigned them by local officials -- or at least
being required to choose >from a list of such ridiculous names?

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish surnames #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

"Roger Lustig" wrote
More to the point: where is the evidence of the existence of
derogatory names in any quantity?
Surely this depends on what one means by "derogatory." For
instance, there are a huge number of surnames that are actually the
names of various spices or herbs or plants. Take names like
Pfefferkorn ("peppercorn") or Feigenbaum (figtree), or Kapusta
("cabbage") or Rumianek ("camomile")

These last two names were the surnames of two of my greatgrandparents
who married each other (does this make me a camomile-flavored
cabbage?) Despite descent >from a Rumianek, I happen to hate that
particular flavor -- although my husband loves it, which is probably
just as well!

Those surnames aren't exactly "nasty", but they are certainly
somewhat demeaning and in that sense derogatory. And names of this
type are so common that they can't possibly have their basis in the
original assignee being in every case a vendor of the fruit or spice
or herb in question. So how else did these people get those names,
other than being assigned them by local officials -- or at least
being required to choose >from a list of such ridiculous names?

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu