Avrohom Krauss" wrote>

Alexander Sharon wrote:
<Katz is a Sefardi surname and it appers in the Jewish Galicia records
before
the introduction of Germanic names.>

KATZ is a Hebrew accronym for "Kohen Tzedek" (Righteous Kohen/Priest) and
was adopted by many who claim kohen lineage. It is an Ashkenazi surname.

Avrohom,

I am a bit confused

It was my understanding that Ashkenazim Jews in Galicia had no official
surnames prior to the introduction of the Austrian legislation.

Mention earlier Drohobycz Kehila records lists Yehoshua ben Yosef KATZ,
Rashi of the Kehila in 1730 and 1734.
Since Yehoshua ben Yosef was already his Hebrew name, how KATZ was added to
this name:

Yehoshua ben Yosef, KZ, or
Yehoshua ben Yosef KZ?

And since Germans Jews had no official surnames prior to the introduction of
Judenregelment in 1797, how KATZ surname appeared earler in Drohobycz ?

Couldn't Sefardim use Kohen Tzedek as the surname?

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab.

Avrohom Krauss" wrote>

Alexander Sharon wrote:
<Katz is a Sefardi surname and it appers in the Jewish Galicia records
before
the introduction of Germanic names.>

KATZ is a Hebrew accronym for "Kohen Tzedek" (Righteous Kohen/Priest) and
was adopted by many who claim kohen lineage. It is an Ashkenazi surname.

Avrohom,

I am a bit confused

It was my understanding that Ashkenazim Jews in Galicia had no official
surnames prior to the introduction of the Austrian legislation.

Mention earlier Drohobycz Kehila records lists Yehoshua ben Yosef KATZ,
Rashi of the Kehila in 1730 and 1734.
Since Yehoshua ben Yosef was already his Hebrew name, how KATZ was added to
this name:

Yehoshua ben Yosef, KZ, or
Yehoshua ben Yosef KZ?

And since Germans Jews had no official surnames prior to the introduction of
Judenregelment in 1797, how KATZ surname appeared earler in Drohobycz ?

Couldn't Sefardim use Kohen Tzedek as the surname?

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab.

Hello fellows Siggers,

I am looking for information about the ERDSTEIN family who lived
in KALISH / KALUSZ - UKRAINE.
As per the data information of Ellis - Island there were at least 5 people

from Kalusz - Austria that reached E-I and 1 >from Kalusr - Poland.

April 8, 1911 >from HAMBURG: REGINA (27) FANNI (7)
LOTTA (5) and DAVID (2) - one family.
July 26, 1913 >from HAMBURG: CHEWE a son (17).
October 20, 1922 >from CHERBURG (FR): RUROLF a merchant >from Kalusz too.
What happened to those people and their descendants?
How can I reach them? Any information about the family or each member
as mention above will be greatly appreciated.
Please reply to: opit@netvision.net.il
Restatcher Michael (Israel)

Researching: ERDSTEIN,LISCOVITCH >from BELARUS,GUREVITCH >from BELARUS,
ROISTACHER mainly >from BESSARABIA,TEICH >from GALICIA.

Hello fellows Siggers,

I am looking for information about the ERDSTEIN family who lived
in KALISH / KALUSZ - UKRAINE.
As per the data information of Ellis - Island there were at least 5 people

from Kalusz - Austria that reached E-I and 1 >from Kalusr - Poland.

April 8, 1911 >from HAMBURG: REGINA (27) FANNI (7)
LOTTA (5) and DAVID (2) - one family.
July 26, 1913 >from HAMBURG: CHEWE a son (17).
October 20, 1922 >from CHERBURG (FR): RUROLF a merchant >from Kalusz too.
What happened to those people and their descendants?
How can I reach them? Any information about the family or each member
as mention above will be greatly appreciated.
Please reply to: opit@netvision.net.il
Restatcher Michael (Israel)

Researching: ERDSTEIN,LISCOVITCH >from BELARUS,GUREVITCH >from BELARUS,
ROISTACHER mainly >from BESSARABIA,TEICH >from GALICIA.

My mother's family are KATZ >from the Sasow and Zolochev area. The KATZ
family were originally Cohanim, but in our branch of the family my
great-grandmother married a non-Cohen, hence her children were not Cohanim.
However, my grandfather was registered at birth under his mother's maiden
name, as Nathan Katz, hence he was a Katz who was not a Cohen.

This caused a great deal of confusion, especially in the synagogue and
social settings, with him constantly having to explain why he could not
accept the aliyot or other honours/duties usually afforded to a Cohen.
Every community he lived in or visited naturally assumed that a Mr Katz
must be a Cohen.

That said I have certainly met other Katzes with similar stories as to how
they came to be Katz but not Cohanim. Most have retained the traditional
spelling of the name, kaf, tzadi, or often kaf, apostrophe, tzadi. In our
family however the Hebrew spelling was adapted to kuf, aleph, tzadi, so as
to make the point that they were not actually Cohanim. I have only ever met
one other non-Cohen Katz who adopted this alternate spelling.

Regarding the Cohen gene, as far as I understand, the point is that this is
passed >from father to son, the way the Cohen status is, hence presumably if
somewhere along the line some male descendents ended up with their mother's
name, Katz, might this explain why a few generations later genetic tests do
not show the Cohen marker?

Incidentally, according to my grandfather, there is a tradition in the
family that we also have Sephardi origins, though these are so far back
that no one was quite sure of the exact story and to the best of my
knowledge we do not preserve any Sephardi customs. I have heard the theory
that Katz is a Sephardi name, but in practice this sounds a little odd to
me, as Katz is a reasonably common Ashkenazi name, but I have never come
across a Sephardi Katz.

Leiah Elbaum
Modi'in, Israel

leiah@elbaum.org

Researching: Katz, Segal, Hollander and Puzer >from Sasov, Zolochov, Brody
and Lviv
Segal >from Toporov, Detriot, MI, USA and Adelaide, Australia
Lichtstein >from Punsk, Poland and Lithuania
Joseph >from Warsaw

My mother's family are KATZ >from the Sasow and Zolochev area. The KATZ
family were originally Cohanim, but in our branch of the family my
great-grandmother married a non-Cohen, hence her children were not Cohanim.
However, my grandfather was registered at birth under his mother's maiden
name, as Nathan Katz, hence he was a Katz who was not a Cohen.

This caused a great deal of confusion, especially in the synagogue and
social settings, with him constantly having to explain why he could not
accept the aliyot or other honours/duties usually afforded to a Cohen.
Every community he lived in or visited naturally assumed that a Mr Katz
must be a Cohen.

That said I have certainly met other Katzes with similar stories as to how
they came to be Katz but not Cohanim. Most have retained the traditional
spelling of the name, kaf, tzadi, or often kaf, apostrophe, tzadi. In our
family however the Hebrew spelling was adapted to kuf, aleph, tzadi, so as
to make the point that they were not actually Cohanim. I have only ever met
one other non-Cohen Katz who adopted this alternate spelling.

Regarding the Cohen gene, as far as I understand, the point is that this is
passed >from father to son, the way the Cohen status is, hence presumably if
somewhere along the line some male descendents ended up with their mother's
name, Katz, might this explain why a few generations later genetic tests do
not show the Cohen marker?

Incidentally, according to my grandfather, there is a tradition in the
family that we also have Sephardi origins, though these are so far back
that no one was quite sure of the exact story and to the best of my
knowledge we do not preserve any Sephardi customs. I have heard the theory
that Katz is a Sephardi name, but in practice this sounds a little odd to
me, as Katz is a reasonably common Ashkenazi name, but I have never come
across a Sephardi Katz.

Leiah Elbaum
Modi'in, Israel

leiah@elbaum.org

Researching: Katz, Segal, Hollander and Puzer >from Sasov, Zolochov, Brody
and Lviv
Segal >from Toporov, Detriot, MI, USA and Adelaide, Australia
Lichtstein >from Punsk, Poland and Lithuania
Joseph >from Warsaw

Gaston and Aline DREYFUS had a son named George and (as far as I know)
they were olive merchants. Does that help?


Abraham Blum Rishon LeZion Israel blum@agri.huji.ac.il

Gaston and Aline DREYFUS had a son named George and (as far as I know)
they were olive merchants. Does that help?


Abraham Blum Rishon LeZion Israel blum@agri.huji.ac.il

I have received an offer >from this service to do 8 hours of research in a
Polish archive for 200 Euros. Has anyone ever heard of them?
Ellen Gottfried
Plainview, New York

Searching for:
GOTTFRIED, NADLER, STUPAJ and NATAN

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

I have received an offer >from this service to do 8 hours of research in a
Polish archive for 200 Euros. Has anyone ever heard of them?
Ellen Gottfried
Plainview, New York

Searching for:
GOTTFRIED, NADLER, STUPAJ and NATAN

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

"Lilli Sprintz" <spri0037@tc.umn.edu> wrote

Of cosure, as others have been
saying, the bounderies changed back and forth alot with the politics.

This is said often, but it really isn't true.

The boundaries changed in the late 1700's with the three Partitions of
Poland, and remained fluid until the Congress of Vienna in 1814 at the close
of the Napoleonic Wars.

Then they were essentially stable for a century, until after WWI.

Then there were changes following WWII.

After the eastern block disintegrated circa 1989, it was not so much that
boundaries changed as that some internal boundaries became international
boundaries.

I don't think that constitutes "back and forth a lot." But it does suggest
that people researching the region ought to have some understanding of the
geo-political history of the area. But that is not much different from
someone studying US history needing to understand that France once held
Quebec and New Orleans, Spain once held Florida, and Mexico once held Texas
and California.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

I don't recall this ever being mentioned. I have noticed that fairly often the
language spoken in the household is given in the US Census as "Hebrew" rather
than Yiddish. Does anyone have a feel for whether this was ever actually true or
was the census taker just making the common error of mistaking Yiddish for
Hebrew? It is my understanding that Hebrew was never used as an everyday
language until the foundation of the State of Israel. Were there exceptions to
this?

Along the same lines, there seems to be some variation among census years as to
whether a given family spoke Yiddish or the national language of the country

from which they came (German, Russian, Lithuanian, etc.). I realize many

immigrants spoke more than one language--my grandmother >from Lithuania spoke
four, including Yiddish, Lithuanian, and English (before she emigrated!). Is
this just an attempt to be less identifiable as a Jew or did they actually speak
German, Russian, etc. at home in the US? My own grandparents spoke mostly
English, and, I am told, friends' children would come to live with them for
months at a time to learn the language better.

Steve Franklin

MODERATOR'S NOTE: To keep your responses on-topic for the LitvakSIG
list, please share with the list only those answers that pertain to
the languages that Litvaks spoke, both in the "alte haym" and in the
country to which they emigrated.

"Lilli Sprintz" <spri0037@tc.umn.edu> wrote

Of cosure, as others have been
saying, the bounderies changed back and forth alot with the politics.

This is said often, but it really isn't true.

The boundaries changed in the late 1700's with the three Partitions of
Poland, and remained fluid until the Congress of Vienna in 1814 at the close
of the Napoleonic Wars.

Then they were essentially stable for a century, until after WWI.

Then there were changes following WWII.

After the eastern block disintegrated circa 1989, it was not so much that
boundaries changed as that some internal boundaries became international
boundaries.

I don't think that constitutes "back and forth a lot." But it does suggest
that people researching the region ought to have some understanding of the
geo-political history of the area. But that is not much different from
someone studying US history needing to understand that France once held
Quebec and New Orleans, Spain once held Florida, and Mexico once held Texas
and California.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

I don't recall this ever being mentioned. I have noticed that fairly often the
language spoken in the household is given in the US Census as "Hebrew" rather
than Yiddish. Does anyone have a feel for whether this was ever actually true or
was the census taker just making the common error of mistaking Yiddish for
Hebrew? It is my understanding that Hebrew was never used as an everyday
language until the foundation of the State of Israel. Were there exceptions to
this?

Along the same lines, there seems to be some variation among census years as to
whether a given family spoke Yiddish or the national language of the country

from which they came (German, Russian, Lithuanian, etc.). I realize many

immigrants spoke more than one language--my grandmother >from Lithuania spoke
four, including Yiddish, Lithuanian, and English (before she emigrated!). Is
this just an attempt to be less identifiable as a Jew or did they actually speak
German, Russian, etc. at home in the US? My own grandparents spoke mostly
English, and, I am told, friends' children would come to live with them for
months at a time to learn the language better.

Steve Franklin

MODERATOR'S NOTE: To keep your responses on-topic for the LitvakSIG
list, please share with the list only those answers that pertain to
the languages that Litvaks spoke, both in the "alte haym" and in the
country to which they emigrated.

Dear colleagues,

Recently one of our cousins received some information >from the Vilnius
Archives about her branch of our STEINHAUER family. We are awaiting copies
of the actual records, but >from the Archivist's letter we have learned that
our GGGGM/GGGM, whose name we only knew as Feiga-Mikhlia bat Shloma, had
the surname of VAINER. Previously we had some information, >from a 1917 New
York death certificate of one of her daughters, which suggested that her
surname might have been ABRAMOVITZ, but it now seems that her maiden name
was VAINER.

I have had a look at the All Lithuania DB to see if I can pick up any
links, and found hundreds of VAINER entries for several Lithuanian
shtetlach, but, apart >from a couple of possible entries for
Shloma/Shlyoma/Shlema VAINER, we have no more information.
There are very very few STEINHAUER entries on the All Lithuania DB (apart

from one recruit photo and the Vilna Ghetto entries (all our wider family)

although the STEINHAUER family was a very large one in both Vilna and Novy
Gorod.

All we know (or can deduct) >from the information we have received >from
Vilnius over the last few years is that Feige-Mikhlia bat Shloma VAINER was
born ca.1821 and died after the 1874 Novy Gorod Family List was recorded.

Feige-Mikhlia bat Shloma VAINER married Yaacov (Iankel/Yankel) ben Shmuel
ben Moshe SHTEINHAUER [B.ca.1817 - D.18.3.1888 Novy Gorod, Vilna], about
1836 we think (their first known child was born ca.1837 and their last
known child was born 1858).

I would be glad to hear >from anyone who might have any links with this
VAINER family or our wider STEINHAUER/SZTEJNHAUER/SHTEINHAUER family of
Novy Gorod, Vilna, and Vilna itself.

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho, Downunder

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Please respond privately.

Dear colleagues,

Recently one of our cousins received some information >from the Vilnius
Archives about her branch of our STEINHAUER family. We are awaiting copies
of the actual records, but >from the Archivist's letter we have learned that
our GGGGM/GGGM, whose name we only knew as Feiga-Mikhlia bat Shloma, had
the surname of VAINER. Previously we had some information, >from a 1917 New
York death certificate of one of her daughters, which suggested that her
surname might have been ABRAMOVITZ, but it now seems that her maiden name
was VAINER.

I have had a look at the All Lithuania DB to see if I can pick up any
links, and found hundreds of VAINER entries for several Lithuanian
shtetlach, but, apart >from a couple of possible entries for
Shloma/Shlyoma/Shlema VAINER, we have no more information.
There are very very few STEINHAUER entries on the All Lithuania DB (apart

from one recruit photo and the Vilna Ghetto entries (all our wider family)

although the STEINHAUER family was a very large one in both Vilna and Novy
Gorod.

All we know (or can deduct) >from the information we have received >from
Vilnius over the last few years is that Feige-Mikhlia bat Shloma VAINER was
born ca.1821 and died after the 1874 Novy Gorod Family List was recorded.

Feige-Mikhlia bat Shloma VAINER married Yaacov (Iankel/Yankel) ben Shmuel
ben Moshe SHTEINHAUER [B.ca.1817 - D.18.3.1888 Novy Gorod, Vilna], about
1836 we think (their first known child was born ca.1837 and their last
known child was born 1858).

I would be glad to hear >from anyone who might have any links with this
VAINER family or our wider STEINHAUER/SZTEJNHAUER/SHTEINHAUER family of
Novy Gorod, Vilna, and Vilna itself.

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho, Downunder

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Please respond privately.

Hi, This is the back side of a picture of my grandfather Joel
Gewercman and his brother. I believe it is in Polish. Any translation
help would be appreciated.
Unfortunately, it is cropped in the original picture I have.
The file is at:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6218

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Tamar.Amit@gmail.com

Please reply privately.

Hi, This is the back side of a picture of my grandfather Joel
Gewercman and his brother. I believe it is in Polish. Any translation
help would be appreciated.
Unfortunately, it is cropped in the original picture I have.
The file is at:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6218

Tamar Amit
ISRAEL
Tamar.Amit@gmail.com

Please reply privately.

I found Lilli Sprintz' comments very interesting - re her paternal
grandfather as being "Romanian" having come >from Kishinev, now in Moldova.
My husband's grandfather also came >from Kishinev, Moldova but he always said
he came >from the Ukraine and considered himself "Ukrainkian.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.

I found Lilli Sprintz' comments very interesting - re her paternal
grandfather as being "Romanian" having come >from Kishinev, now in Moldova.
My husband's grandfather also came >from Kishinev, Moldova but he always said
he came >from the Ukraine and considered himself "Ukrainkian.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.