Date   

INTRO - Seeking STRICKER #germany

VivianeCK2003@...
 

Hello Fellow Genners:
I have just joined German Gen. I have been a member of the Jewish Gen -
specifically of Hungarian Gen. I have also joined Austria-Czech Gen and
Roumanian Gen. The reason is that my Grandfather's name was Jacob STRICKER and
he was born in Beled, Hungary in 1881. However, most Hungarian Jews chose a
Hungarian name for their families - this name change appeared to be possible
earlier than 1860. The name STRICKER is overwhelmingly German. There are a lot
of STRICKERs in North America, especially in Wisconsin! There are a lot of
STRICKERof Swiss origin. So I am joining German Gen on the possibility that
I can find the family lineage.

My genealogy interest and experience is new. I have be dealing with computers
since 1984. I do not know any German unfortunately. Many of the Hungarian
records are in German. My German connection other than this was that my father
worked in Dresden until 1933 until he was forced to leave.

Viviane Kluska Canton, MI VivianeCK2003@aol.com


German SIG #Germany INTRO - Seeking STRICKER #germany

VivianeCK2003@...
 

Hello Fellow Genners:
I have just joined German Gen. I have been a member of the Jewish Gen -
specifically of Hungarian Gen. I have also joined Austria-Czech Gen and
Roumanian Gen. The reason is that my Grandfather's name was Jacob STRICKER and
he was born in Beled, Hungary in 1881. However, most Hungarian Jews chose a
Hungarian name for their families - this name change appeared to be possible
earlier than 1860. The name STRICKER is overwhelmingly German. There are a lot
of STRICKERs in North America, especially in Wisconsin! There are a lot of
STRICKERof Swiss origin. So I am joining German Gen on the possibility that
I can find the family lineage.

My genealogy interest and experience is new. I have be dealing with computers
since 1984. I do not know any German unfortunately. Many of the Hungarian
records are in German. My German connection other than this was that my father
worked in Dresden until 1933 until he was forced to leave.

Viviane Kluska Canton, MI VivianeCK2003@aol.com


Re: STROMWASSEROWNA #general

Cyndee Meystel <cmeys@...>
 

c) As the questioner asked specifically about the relationship between two
women, the gender is wrong, and they are "meh.utanot".
While that is correct in Hebrew, the term is most often used in its Yiddish
version (corruption) of mechutenestes.

Cyndee Meystel

MODERATOR NOTE: The discussion is beginning to vere away >from the original
question, which concerned interpretation of the suffix "owna".
Please try to focus on this topic in any further responses.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: STROMWASSEROWNA #general

Cyndee Meystel <cmeys@...>
 

c) As the questioner asked specifically about the relationship between two
women, the gender is wrong, and they are "meh.utanot".
While that is correct in Hebrew, the term is most often used in its Yiddish
version (corruption) of mechutenestes.

Cyndee Meystel

MODERATOR NOTE: The discussion is beginning to vere away >from the original
question, which concerned interpretation of the suffix "owna".
Please try to focus on this topic in any further responses.


Re: Searching: HORETZKY and BRAININ #austria-czech

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Answer to no. 2. Probably a matronym, that is a name for a maternal
ancestor. Brayne is a female name in Yiddish (means brown) so Brainin would
be ">from the family of Brayne." There was a famous writer named Reuven
Brainin.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz

-----Original Message-----
From: oedekerk@gmx.net [mailto:oedekerk@gmx.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:33 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: [ukraine] Searching: HORETZKY and BRAININ


I am new to this site and would be appreciative if someone could answer the
following two questions:

1. Roots, history, and origin of any family member of the last name
HORETZKY(please only this spelling!).

2. Meaning and origin of the last name BRAININ.

Thank you for each clue and contribution.

Best regards,

Bo Brainin


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Searching: HORETZKY and BRAININ #ukraine

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Answer to no. 2. Probably a matronym, that is a name for a maternal
ancestor. Brayne is a female name in Yiddish (means brown) so Brainin would
be ">from the family of Brayne." There was a famous writer named Reuven
Brainin.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz

-----Original Message-----
From: oedekerk@gmx.net [mailto:oedekerk@gmx.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:33 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: [ukraine] Searching: HORETZKY and BRAININ


I am new to this site and would be appreciative if someone could answer the
following two questions:

1. Roots, history, and origin of any family member of the last name
HORETZKY(please only this spelling!).

2. Meaning and origin of the last name BRAININ.

Thank you for each clue and contribution.

Best regards,

Bo Brainin


Re: Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918 #general

Roman Vilner <rvilner@...>
 

Just for the sake of accuracy, the Russian revolution broke out in 1917...

Roman Vilner
NJ
VILNER-Gory/Gorky, Mogilev gub, LIEBERMAN, PINCHUK-
Mogilev,SHMULENSON-Vinnitsa

Soon after he returned to Zvhil after the war in 1919, the Russian
revolution
broke out.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918 #ukraine

Roman Vilner <rvilner@...>
 

Just for the sake of accuracy, the Russian revolution broke out in 1917...

Roman Vilner
NJ
VILNER-Gory/Gorky, Mogilev gub, LIEBERMAN, PINCHUK-
Mogilev,SHMULENSON-Vinnitsa

Soon after he returned to Zvhil after the war in 1919, the Russian
revolution
broke out.


Re: Some Tips: Finding people in Ellis Island Database #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Also the letter C falls into this category when searching names.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ


This brings up a good point, Earlier English and American cursive upper
case
"S" resembles a current day cursive upper case "L". If you look at a
signifigant number of records >from the 1700's through the early 1900's
you
will see the cursive handwriting differs signifigantly >from how we write
today. Try switching upper case "L" and "S" around and you may find some
of
those elusive people! The search engines for the major genealogy sites
do
not take this into account.

Linda Altman
familysearch@bellsouth.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Some Tips: Finding people in Ellis Island Database #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Also the letter C falls into this category when searching names.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ


This brings up a good point, Earlier English and American cursive upper
case
"S" resembles a current day cursive upper case "L". If you look at a
signifigant number of records >from the 1700's through the early 1900's
you
will see the cursive handwriting differs signifigantly >from how we write
today. Try switching upper case "L" and "S" around and you may find some
of
those elusive people! The search engines for the major genealogy sites
do
not take this into account.

Linda Altman
familysearch@bellsouth.net


SEGAL Family in EIDB #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Very often when you are looking for one thing, something else entirely pops
up which is unusual. Such was the occurrance when I was searching for
Segals in the Ellis Island Database. I happened upon a few which might
interest those looking for Southern African or Lithuanian connections for
this name.

The following are the entries I found:

Aaron Segal, age 42, >from Cape Town, SA, arriving NY October 29, 1905.
Going to mother Mrs. Segal, 36 Henry Street, NY.

Abraham Segal, age 37, >from Moletai, arriving NY September 28, 1924, left
wife Michle Segel. Going to brother Jakob Segal, 925 Clare Hunt Parkway,
Bronx, NY.

Samson Segal, age 26, born Piatra, Rumania, arriving July 14, 1911, left
brother L. Segal, Plumtree, Rhodesia. Going to parents O. Segal, 1448
Firfield Avenue, St. Paul, MN. 4th finger left hand missing.

The most interesting entry was the one for the missing 4th finger left hand
of Samson Segal. Evidently he may have done this to avoid conscription.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica SEGAL Family in EIDB #southafrica

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Very often when you are looking for one thing, something else entirely pops
up which is unusual. Such was the occurrance when I was searching for
Segals in the Ellis Island Database. I happened upon a few which might
interest those looking for Southern African or Lithuanian connections for
this name.

The following are the entries I found:

Aaron Segal, age 42, >from Cape Town, SA, arriving NY October 29, 1905.
Going to mother Mrs. Segal, 36 Henry Street, NY.

Abraham Segal, age 37, >from Moletai, arriving NY September 28, 1924, left
wife Michle Segel. Going to brother Jakob Segal, 925 Clare Hunt Parkway,
Bronx, NY.

Samson Segal, age 26, born Piatra, Rumania, arriving July 14, 1911, left
brother L. Segal, Plumtree, Rhodesia. Going to parents O. Segal, 1448
Firfield Avenue, St. Paul, MN. 4th finger left hand missing.

The most interesting entry was the one for the missing 4th finger left hand
of Samson Segal. Evidently he may have done this to avoid conscription.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Re: Surname origins #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:57:58 UTC, windselle3@verizon.net (windselle) opined:

Hi. I have a question I'm hoping someone might have an answer to, but before
I ask, I need to thank everyone who responded to my request for help
concerning the situation with family and the woman caller >from Israel. I
still am no further than I was as far as learning anything, but even still,
the polite and friendly assistance here was more than I could've asked for
and I thank everyone for it.

This question may pertain to my previous one, but really at this point it's
more curiosity than anything. Is there a way to tell the origins of a
surname? The reason I ask is that I've been able to trace my father's
surname to the late 1700's and that's as far as it's gone. Furthermore, any
search results I get on this surname, either through searching on my own or
seeing other people's messages on other boards about this same surname..
everything comes to a screeching halt in the mid 1600s at the earliest, in
their families and my own. My feeling is that it has to be derived >from some
other name.

Now I've heard a French version of this name, other English versions, Jewish
versions.. but how would one find out exactly where it started, and is it
possible? This is really more a quest to find out how surnames came into
being in the first place, although I do have some understanding of it as far
as naming someone "Brewer" because he brewed ale, and the like. Even in
biblical times though, there are instances of surnames.

My thinking is that it's got to be nigh impossible to discover one's own
roots if it involves various surname changes over the course of hundreds of
years, isn't it? At the very least it has to be immensely difficult. At this
point I have given up on searching out my father's ancestry as it just seem
to come to a screeching halt and there is no way of knowing that I know of,
if there was a surname change. It really does seem as though someone at some
point decided to adopt this surname and didn't inform a soul. This is likely
a ridicious question and yet it puzzles me just the same. How does one find
out the actual origins of their surname, and is it possible?

Rebecca Anne Darlow
It's unfortunate that you haven't told us what the surname is that you are
interested in; someone here might have been able to tell you something about
it.

But your question seems to be founded upon a belief that people,
specifically Jews, have always had fixed surnames, which is incorrect. The
example of Biblical surnames is misleading: one has no assurance that an
apparent surname (I can think of some >from the Second Temple era, but not
from First Temple or earlier) is in fact a permanent label that persisted
over generations, rather than a tag carried by a single individual in a
single generation. The fact is, as has been discussed in this group many
times, that most Jews of Western Europe had fixed surnames only by
Napoleonic decree, and in Eastern Europe only shortly thereafter. I have
been told, though I can't cite proof, that some in Romania actually made it
into the twentieth century without a persistent surname.

For comparison, I know Beduin Arabs here in Israel that don't have surnames
even now, which is unimportant to the authorities because everyone in this
country has an ID number that serves the same purpose as far as the State is
concerned.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Surname origins #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:57:58 UTC, windselle3@verizon.net (windselle) opined:

Hi. I have a question I'm hoping someone might have an answer to, but before
I ask, I need to thank everyone who responded to my request for help
concerning the situation with family and the woman caller >from Israel. I
still am no further than I was as far as learning anything, but even still,
the polite and friendly assistance here was more than I could've asked for
and I thank everyone for it.

This question may pertain to my previous one, but really at this point it's
more curiosity than anything. Is there a way to tell the origins of a
surname? The reason I ask is that I've been able to trace my father's
surname to the late 1700's and that's as far as it's gone. Furthermore, any
search results I get on this surname, either through searching on my own or
seeing other people's messages on other boards about this same surname..
everything comes to a screeching halt in the mid 1600s at the earliest, in
their families and my own. My feeling is that it has to be derived >from some
other name.

Now I've heard a French version of this name, other English versions, Jewish
versions.. but how would one find out exactly where it started, and is it
possible? This is really more a quest to find out how surnames came into
being in the first place, although I do have some understanding of it as far
as naming someone "Brewer" because he brewed ale, and the like. Even in
biblical times though, there are instances of surnames.

My thinking is that it's got to be nigh impossible to discover one's own
roots if it involves various surname changes over the course of hundreds of
years, isn't it? At the very least it has to be immensely difficult. At this
point I have given up on searching out my father's ancestry as it just seem
to come to a screeching halt and there is no way of knowing that I know of,
if there was a surname change. It really does seem as though someone at some
point decided to adopt this surname and didn't inform a soul. This is likely
a ridicious question and yet it puzzles me just the same. How does one find
out the actual origins of their surname, and is it possible?

Rebecca Anne Darlow
It's unfortunate that you haven't told us what the surname is that you are
interested in; someone here might have been able to tell you something about
it.

But your question seems to be founded upon a belief that people,
specifically Jews, have always had fixed surnames, which is incorrect. The
example of Biblical surnames is misleading: one has no assurance that an
apparent surname (I can think of some >from the Second Temple era, but not
from First Temple or earlier) is in fact a permanent label that persisted
over generations, rather than a tag carried by a single individual in a
single generation. The fact is, as has been discussed in this group many
times, that most Jews of Western Europe had fixed surnames only by
Napoleonic decree, and in Eastern Europe only shortly thereafter. I have
been told, though I can't cite proof, that some in Romania actually made it
into the twentieth century without a persistent surname.

For comparison, I know Beduin Arabs here in Israel that don't have surnames
even now, which is unimportant to the authorities because everyone in this
country has an ID number that serves the same purpose as far as the State is
concerned.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


Re: STROMWASSEROWNA #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:53:48 UTC, a.sharon@shaw.ca (Alexander Sharon) opined:

"ben.forman" wrote

Polish is an unique language in pinpointing an exact
famlly relations and is
probably a great help in building one's genealogical tree:
I hate to be nit picky, but I know that arabic for one
also has these differentiations in maternal/paternal
family relationships
I am sure they are. I've read that some cannibals have consider eaten by
them people as the priviliged members of their family. They have invented
special names for those relations.
I am not sure what this paragraph is meant to convey.

So on a vaguely related note can anyone tell me what the
word is for the relationship between inlaws e.g. my mother
to my wifes mother, I know there's a yiddish word but I
can't remember it. Presumably it is Polish in
origin rather than Aramaic.
The word is mekhutanim.
To answer the question more precisely:

a) The word is neither Aramaic nor Polish, per the guesses by the
questioner, but Hebrew;
b) The third letter of the word is not a KHAF, but a H.ET, so that a better
and more accurate transliteration is "meh.utanim" (whatever you want to do
with the dot after the "h", the "kh" is definitely wrong;
c) As the questioner asked specifically about the relationship between two
women, the gender is wrong, and they are "meh.utanot".


Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: STROMWASSEROWNA #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:53:48 UTC, a.sharon@shaw.ca (Alexander Sharon) opined:

"ben.forman" wrote

Polish is an unique language in pinpointing an exact
famlly relations and is
probably a great help in building one's genealogical tree:
I hate to be nit picky, but I know that arabic for one
also has these differentiations in maternal/paternal
family relationships
I am sure they are. I've read that some cannibals have consider eaten by
them people as the priviliged members of their family. They have invented
special names for those relations.
I am not sure what this paragraph is meant to convey.

So on a vaguely related note can anyone tell me what the
word is for the relationship between inlaws e.g. my mother
to my wifes mother, I know there's a yiddish word but I
can't remember it. Presumably it is Polish in
origin rather than Aramaic.
The word is mekhutanim.
To answer the question more precisely:

a) The word is neither Aramaic nor Polish, per the guesses by the
questioner, but Hebrew;
b) The third letter of the word is not a KHAF, but a H.ET, so that a better
and more accurate transliteration is "meh.utanim" (whatever you want to do
with the dot after the "h", the "kh" is definitely wrong;
c) As the questioner asked specifically about the relationship between two
women, the gender is wrong, and they are "meh.utanot".


Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


Re: Madison Ave, NYC in 1902 #general

Burt Hecht <burt1933@...>
 

I would recommend finding a copy of a New York (Manhattan) City directory
for that year to find your relative. Since there are alphabetical listings
and business listing - with advertisements - you might get a picture of the
actual building. My guess is that during that year the hospital was a
thriving institution in the East Harlem neighborhood.


Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:00:27 -0500
I have found a 1902 street address for a family
member. It is 1480 Madison Ave. This is across
the street from, and one block north, of the
present Mt Sinai Medical Center. Would this have
been a residential area in 1902?
Most certainly this was mixed residential and commercial uptown.

If so, how expensive?
That's certainly relative. If one shopped Gristede's - expensive; if one
visited the open air markets - less expensive.
Or could this be a business address?

If you are interested in a wonderful novel by one of America's great
writers, I'll suggest Henry Roth's "Mercy of a Rude Stream" - which provides
a retroview of the neighborhood in Manhattan. Good luck.

By the way, North Dakota, What city?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Madison Ave, NYC in 1902 #general

Burt Hecht <burt1933@...>
 

I would recommend finding a copy of a New York (Manhattan) City directory
for that year to find your relative. Since there are alphabetical listings
and business listing - with advertisements - you might get a picture of the
actual building. My guess is that during that year the hospital was a
thriving institution in the East Harlem neighborhood.


Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:00:27 -0500
I have found a 1902 street address for a family
member. It is 1480 Madison Ave. This is across
the street from, and one block north, of the
present Mt Sinai Medical Center. Would this have
been a residential area in 1902?
Most certainly this was mixed residential and commercial uptown.

If so, how expensive?
That's certainly relative. If one shopped Gristede's - expensive; if one
visited the open air markets - less expensive.
Or could this be a business address?

If you are interested in a wonderful novel by one of America's great
writers, I'll suggest Henry Roth's "Mercy of a Rude Stream" - which provides
a retroview of the neighborhood in Manhattan. Good luck.

By the way, North Dakota, What city?


Re: Some Tips: Finding people in Ellis Island Database #general

Linda Altman <familysearch@...>
 

This brings up a good point, Earlier English and American cursive upper case
"S" resembles a current day cursive upper case "L". If you look at a
signifigant number of records >from the 1700's through the early 1900's you
will see the cursive handwriting differs signifigantly >from how we write
today. Try switching upper case "L" and "S" around and you may find some of
those elusive people! The search engines for the major genealogy sites do
not take this into account.

Linda Altman
familysearch@bellsouth.net

----- Original Message -----
.... I found my grandmother Esther Silberstein under L as
Lilberstein....... >
Paul Silverstone


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Some Tips: Finding people in Ellis Island Database #general

Linda Altman <familysearch@...>
 

This brings up a good point, Earlier English and American cursive upper case
"S" resembles a current day cursive upper case "L". If you look at a
signifigant number of records >from the 1700's through the early 1900's you
will see the cursive handwriting differs signifigantly >from how we write
today. Try switching upper case "L" and "S" around and you may find some of
those elusive people! The search engines for the major genealogy sites do
not take this into account.

Linda Altman
familysearch@bellsouth.net

----- Original Message -----
.... I found my grandmother Esther Silberstein under L as
Lilberstein....... >
Paul Silverstone