Date   

Re: Were they from Poland or Russia #general

Yehuda Berman <ybberman@...>
 

My father also came >from Kishinev in 1905 in what he, and everybody else
then called it, Bessarabia. His ethnic group or, as people used to say,
"nationality" was "Jewish" as was that of all the other Jews. At the time
he lived there, most inhabitants of the city were Jews and Russians and some
were Romanians and Germans. The peasants in the surrounding countryside
were mostly Romanian.

My father spoke Yiddish (what we used to call "Jewish") as his native
language and Russian as a second language. He didn’t speak Romanian because
there was no need to. However, his younger sisters, who continued to live
there after it was transferred to Romania after the First World War learned
to speak Romanian as well. Their Russian identity papers (it became Russian
again after the Second World War) identified them as "Jews" by nationality.

However, the United States did not and does not recognize people by their
“nationality” but by their "citizenship", which varies >from time to time as
borders change. In Eastern Europe, nobody’s ethnic group changes when
territory changes hands – only their citizenship. A Polish Jew is not a Pole
and a Russian Jew is not a Russian. So it makes sense to describe somebody’
s “nationality” as Jewish, and his origin as >from a certain town, which can
be described as belonging to one country then and now belonging to another
country.

Yehuda Berman,
Efrat, Israel

I found Lilli Sprintz' comments very interesting - re her paternal
grandfather as being "Romanian" having come >from Kishinev, now in Moldova.
My husband's grandfather also came >from Kishinev, Moldova but he always said
he came >from the Ukraine and considered himself "Ukrainian.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Were they from Poland or Russia #general

Yehuda Berman <ybberman@...>
 

My father also came >from Kishinev in 1905 in what he, and everybody else
then called it, Bessarabia. His ethnic group or, as people used to say,
"nationality" was "Jewish" as was that of all the other Jews. At the time
he lived there, most inhabitants of the city were Jews and Russians and some
were Romanians and Germans. The peasants in the surrounding countryside
were mostly Romanian.

My father spoke Yiddish (what we used to call "Jewish") as his native
language and Russian as a second language. He didn’t speak Romanian because
there was no need to. However, his younger sisters, who continued to live
there after it was transferred to Romania after the First World War learned
to speak Romanian as well. Their Russian identity papers (it became Russian
again after the Second World War) identified them as "Jews" by nationality.

However, the United States did not and does not recognize people by their
“nationality” but by their "citizenship", which varies >from time to time as
borders change. In Eastern Europe, nobody’s ethnic group changes when
territory changes hands – only their citizenship. A Polish Jew is not a Pole
and a Russian Jew is not a Russian. So it makes sense to describe somebody’
s “nationality” as Jewish, and his origin as >from a certain town, which can
be described as belonging to one country then and now belonging to another
country.

Yehuda Berman,
Efrat, Israel

I found Lilli Sprintz' comments very interesting - re her paternal
grandfather as being "Romanian" having come >from Kishinev, now in Moldova.
My husband's grandfather also came >from Kishinev, Moldova but he always said
he came >from the Ukraine and considered himself "Ukrainian.


Re: 1916 census of Jerusalem #general

Jane Rosen Berenbeim
 

Thanks to Mathilde Tagger for her reference to Shmuel Shamir's useful
article. I am curious to know if anyone has been successful in using
census and other records cited for Palestine in the late 19th century
through the 1920s.

Are there researchers in Israel who have expertise in searching these
records?

With thanks in advance,
Jane Rosen Berenbeim
NYC

ROSEN Olviopol, Bogopol, Kishinev, Odessa > Palestine > NYC and Australia
SCHAPIRO Kovno gubernia > Palestine > NYC; REITER Pogrebishche (Kiev gubernia)>NYC
KLEINER Yanov (near Vinnitsa) > NYC and Israel
BERENBEIM/BERENBAUM Baryshevka (near Kiev) > Winnipeg, Denver, NYC
GANETSKY Mogilev > Winnipeg > Denver; GURNY/GOODNEY Lodz > NYC
MALSCHEVETZER/SIEGEL > Proskurov > New Jersey


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: 1916 census of Jerusalem #general

Jane Rosen Berenbeim
 

Thanks to Mathilde Tagger for her reference to Shmuel Shamir's useful
article. I am curious to know if anyone has been successful in using
census and other records cited for Palestine in the late 19th century
through the 1920s.

Are there researchers in Israel who have expertise in searching these
records?

With thanks in advance,
Jane Rosen Berenbeim
NYC

ROSEN Olviopol, Bogopol, Kishinev, Odessa > Palestine > NYC and Australia
SCHAPIRO Kovno gubernia > Palestine > NYC; REITER Pogrebishche (Kiev gubernia)>NYC
KLEINER Yanov (near Vinnitsa) > NYC and Israel
BERENBEIM/BERENBAUM Baryshevka (near Kiev) > Winnipeg, Denver, NYC
GANETSKY Mogilev > Winnipeg > Denver; GURNY/GOODNEY Lodz > NYC
MALSCHEVETZER/SIEGEL > Proskurov > New Jersey


Re: location of Labetz #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Jania Sommers" wrote

In looking at the manifest for a possible ancestor, it shows him coming from
Labetz. JewishGen doesn't seem to show a town with this name. Any ideas
where it might be located?
Thank you.
Jania Sommers

Searching: SOSENKO >from Odessa/Nikolayev
Jania,

You are asking a question without providing any additional information, at
least such as reserched person's surname. Since you have also indicated that
you are looking for Sosenko >from Odessa/Nikolayev, one can assume that you
are searching for Sosenko >from "Labetz".

There are few possibilities:

1. Labetz (exact spelling) is a town in the eastern part of Germany , SW
from Berlin
2. Search for Sosenko through the Ellis Island database does not reveal any
Jewish people by this Ukrainian family name
3. Search for town "Labetz" in the Ellis Island database shows only one
Jewish person: Ester Kohan, age 17, arrived on March 1, 1904, sailing >from
Antwerp on the steamer "Finland".

You should not trust lovely framed "Passenger Records" - they are full of
mistakes, often adding the extra weight to the mistakes made already by the
Ellis Island immigration officer in the manifest.

If you examine handwritten copy of the manifest you will see that this town
is not "Labetz" but something else, starting with "Lub..." most probably
Lubetz, which could be modern towns Lyubcha in Belarus or Lyubech in
Ukraine.

a) Located in the modern Belarus Lyubcha had a sizeable Jewish population of
nearly 500 and town other known names (Lubce (Lubtze) could be corrupted by
the Ellis Island clerk.

b) Located north of Kiev in Ukraine town Lyubech is actually the best
candidate since its other known name Lubec (Lubets) could be easily
interpreted as "Lubetz"

Best of luck in your search

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: location of Labetz #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Jania Sommers" wrote

In looking at the manifest for a possible ancestor, it shows him coming from
Labetz. JewishGen doesn't seem to show a town with this name. Any ideas
where it might be located?
Thank you.
Jania Sommers

Searching: SOSENKO >from Odessa/Nikolayev
Jania,

You are asking a question without providing any additional information, at
least such as reserched person's surname. Since you have also indicated that
you are looking for Sosenko >from Odessa/Nikolayev, one can assume that you
are searching for Sosenko >from "Labetz".

There are few possibilities:

1. Labetz (exact spelling) is a town in the eastern part of Germany , SW
from Berlin
2. Search for Sosenko through the Ellis Island database does not reveal any
Jewish people by this Ukrainian family name
3. Search for town "Labetz" in the Ellis Island database shows only one
Jewish person: Ester Kohan, age 17, arrived on March 1, 1904, sailing >from
Antwerp on the steamer "Finland".

You should not trust lovely framed "Passenger Records" - they are full of
mistakes, often adding the extra weight to the mistakes made already by the
Ellis Island immigration officer in the manifest.

If you examine handwritten copy of the manifest you will see that this town
is not "Labetz" but something else, starting with "Lub..." most probably
Lubetz, which could be modern towns Lyubcha in Belarus or Lyubech in
Ukraine.

a) Located in the modern Belarus Lyubcha had a sizeable Jewish population of
nearly 500 and town other known names (Lubce (Lubtze) could be corrupted by
the Ellis Island clerk.

b) Located north of Kiev in Ukraine town Lyubech is actually the best
candidate since its other known name Lubec (Lubets) could be easily
interpreted as "Lubetz"

Best of luck in your search

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


INTRO - researching FROHMANN & ROOS, Reinheim & Gross Zimmern + STRAUS, Rossdorf (Darmstadt, Hessen) #germany

cfsantomenna@...
 

INTRO - researching FROHMANN & ROOS families >from Reinheim and
Gross-Zimmern & STRAUS family >from Rossdorf, all in the vicinity of
Darmstadt,Hessen

cfsantomenna@alumni.middlebury.edu

Hello GerSig,
I just recently joined the group. I have been doing genealogical
research for about ten years but consider myself a novice in doing German
Jewish Genealogy. I live in Freeport, Maine, in the U. S., and my
native language is English. Unfortunately I do not speak German.
I have been using the computer for some time, but do not consider
myself an expert, and the same is true in using the Internet.

I have identified the names and birth and death dates of my paternal
grandfather and great-grandparents, and some information about my
great-great grandparents, but I would like to learn more about their
lives and origins and other descendants, as well as any collateral relatives
who may also be researching these lines.

FROHMANN - Daniel; great-great grandfather; probably born Reinheim,
Hessen, about 1795; died 1837. Married Regina ROOS, daughter of Gerson
ROOS, of Gross-Zimmern. Lived in Gross-Zimmern.

FROHMANN/FROHMAN, Herz/Henry, great-grandfather, son of Daniel
Frohmann and Regina Roos (1800-1858). Born in Gross-Zimmern,
1826. Emigrated about 1845 to New York; married in
Sandusky, Ohio, 1850, to Barbara/Babella/Babette/Bette STRAUS;
to New York City with wife and children,1864. Died New York City, 1899.

FROHMAN, Gustave; grandfather. Born in Sandusky, Ohio, 1854; died New
York City, 1930. Brother of theatrical producers Daniel Frohman(1851-1940)
and Charles Frohman(1856-1915).

STRAUS, Jacob, great-great grandfather; born about 1781. Married (1)
Henrietta _______(prob. died before 1834). Parents of
Barbara/Babella/Babette/Bette (1828-1891), who married Henry Frohman
(see above).. Jacob married (2) Hannah MAY, prob. by 1834-35. They
emigrated >from Rossdorf, Hessen, in 1846, to New York, with 9 children from
Jacob's two marriages.

I would also like to try to locate Herbert FROHMANN or his brother,
Eric, who were born in Frankfurt, Germany, in the 1930's, and emigrated to
the U. S. in the late 1930's, I believe. Their father was Karl FROHMANN,
a son of Leopold Vogel FROHMANN (1874- ), born in Gross-Zimmern.
Herbert was living in the New York area in 1969, when he contacted my late
brother, Louis Todd Frohman.

Any information about any of the individuals or locations mentioned
would be most welcome and appreciated.

Cornelia Frohman Santomenna South Freeport, Maine
cfsantomenna@alumni.middlebury.edu


German SIG #Germany INTRO - researching FROHMANN & ROOS, Reinheim & Gross Zimmern + STRAUS, Rossdorf (Darmstadt, Hessen) #germany

cfsantomenna@...
 

INTRO - researching FROHMANN & ROOS families >from Reinheim and
Gross-Zimmern & STRAUS family >from Rossdorf, all in the vicinity of
Darmstadt,Hessen

cfsantomenna@alumni.middlebury.edu

Hello GerSig,
I just recently joined the group. I have been doing genealogical
research for about ten years but consider myself a novice in doing German
Jewish Genealogy. I live in Freeport, Maine, in the U. S., and my
native language is English. Unfortunately I do not speak German.
I have been using the computer for some time, but do not consider
myself an expert, and the same is true in using the Internet.

I have identified the names and birth and death dates of my paternal
grandfather and great-grandparents, and some information about my
great-great grandparents, but I would like to learn more about their
lives and origins and other descendants, as well as any collateral relatives
who may also be researching these lines.

FROHMANN - Daniel; great-great grandfather; probably born Reinheim,
Hessen, about 1795; died 1837. Married Regina ROOS, daughter of Gerson
ROOS, of Gross-Zimmern. Lived in Gross-Zimmern.

FROHMANN/FROHMAN, Herz/Henry, great-grandfather, son of Daniel
Frohmann and Regina Roos (1800-1858). Born in Gross-Zimmern,
1826. Emigrated about 1845 to New York; married in
Sandusky, Ohio, 1850, to Barbara/Babella/Babette/Bette STRAUS;
to New York City with wife and children,1864. Died New York City, 1899.

FROHMAN, Gustave; grandfather. Born in Sandusky, Ohio, 1854; died New
York City, 1930. Brother of theatrical producers Daniel Frohman(1851-1940)
and Charles Frohman(1856-1915).

STRAUS, Jacob, great-great grandfather; born about 1781. Married (1)
Henrietta _______(prob. died before 1834). Parents of
Barbara/Babella/Babette/Bette (1828-1891), who married Henry Frohman
(see above).. Jacob married (2) Hannah MAY, prob. by 1834-35. They
emigrated >from Rossdorf, Hessen, in 1846, to New York, with 9 children from
Jacob's two marriages.

I would also like to try to locate Herbert FROHMANN or his brother,
Eric, who were born in Frankfurt, Germany, in the 1930's, and emigrated to
the U. S. in the late 1930's, I believe. Their father was Karl FROHMANN,
a son of Leopold Vogel FROHMANN (1874- ), born in Gross-Zimmern.
Herbert was living in the New York area in 1969, when he contacted my late
brother, Louis Todd Frohman.

Any information about any of the individuals or locations mentioned
would be most welcome and appreciated.

Cornelia Frohman Santomenna South Freeport, Maine
cfsantomenna@alumni.middlebury.edu


Re: Book of Residents #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

Quite a few people have written me about where to write to request research
on Books of Residents.

If you write in English it might be best to write to the main headquarters:

Naczelna Dyrekcja Archiwow Panstwowych
ul. Dluga 6, skr. poczt. 1005
00-950 Warsaw, Poland

If you want to try Lodz directly, write:
Archiwum Panstwowe w Lodzi
pl. Wolnosci 1
90-950 Lodz, Poland

They will write to you (in Polish) and tell you where to send the money. They
will give you a Bank Account Number, and you can send a money order to that
account.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Re: Book of Residents #lodz #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

Quite a few people have written me about where to write to request research
on Books of Residents.

If you write in English it might be best to write to the main headquarters:

Naczelna Dyrekcja Archiwow Panstwowych
ul. Dluga 6, skr. poczt. 1005
00-950 Warsaw, Poland

If you want to try Lodz directly, write:
Archiwum Panstwowe w Lodzi
pl. Wolnosci 1
90-950 Lodz, Poland

They will write to you (in Polish) and tell you where to send the money. They
will give you a Bank Account Number, and you can send a money order to that
account.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


How to - - re Lodz Book of Residents #lodz #poland

David Ferleger
 

Dear Fay

Since there were a lot of FERLEGER folks in Lodz -- I'd be interested
in asking the archives there to do the search and copy
the pages

What is the address? or the method for asking that this be done?

David

========================================
David Ferleger
Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland How to - - re Lodz Book of Residents #lodz #poland

David Ferleger
 

Dear Fay

Since there were a lot of FERLEGER folks in Lodz -- I'd be interested
in asking the archives there to do the search and copy
the pages

What is the address? or the method for asking that this be done?

David

========================================
David Ferleger
Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004


Re: ksiega ludnosci #lodz #poland

Stephen Strum <stephen@...>
 

To All,

I do not have the time but if there were enough people to finance this
endeavor, I would be willing to contribute some bucks. There must be some
talented folk out there who have this skill & could use the income.

Regards,

Stephen Strum
Ashland, OR

-----Original Message-----

As Simon Srebrny noted, I too, am willing to volunteer my time to publish
ksiega ludnosci entries on the web.

I don't know who makes that decision and if it would be limited to LARG or
all of Poland. Hopefully someone who reads this can get the ball rolling.

Nicki Chodnoff


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland RE: ksiega ludnosci #lodz #poland

Stephen Strum <stephen@...>
 

To All,

I do not have the time but if there were enough people to finance this
endeavor, I would be willing to contribute some bucks. There must be some
talented folk out there who have this skill & could use the income.

Regards,

Stephen Strum
Ashland, OR

-----Original Message-----

As Simon Srebrny noted, I too, am willing to volunteer my time to publish
ksiega ludnosci entries on the web.

I don't know who makes that decision and if it would be limited to LARG or
all of Poland. Hopefully someone who reads this can get the ball rolling.

Nicki Chodnoff


Rabbi of Trois Rivieres ca. 1970 #rabbinic

heshel@...
 

Does anybody know the identity of the Rabbi of Trois Rivieres,
Quebec, in the late 1960s - early 1970s? (The synagogue closed down
in the early 70s.) Where can he be found now?

Heshel Teitelbaum
Ottawa, Canada

[Moderator's Note: Please respond privately.]


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Rabbi of Trois Rivieres ca. 1970 #rabbinic

heshel@...
 

Does anybody know the identity of the Rabbi of Trois Rivieres,
Quebec, in the late 1960s - early 1970s? (The synagogue closed down
in the early 70s.) Where can he be found now?

Heshel Teitelbaum
Ottawa, Canada

[Moderator's Note: Please respond privately.]


INTRO - View Mate Photo and Name Question WENDEL #germany

Michael Wendel <mwendel@...>
 

Hi All,
Since I have joined the JewishGen site and mailing list I have been learning
a lot and I have gotten some excellent help because I just missed some good
resource sites on Google.

In addition, I have been able to help a few people here and there.'

But I am still a bit stumped on the issue of where the WENDEL family
originated >from in Germany.

I posted a photo, a semi-decent scan of an old tin type, on view mate -
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6228
- that probably dates back to the mid 1800s - I am hoping someone might have seen
this photo before or at least give me a ballpark time range based upon the
clothes they are wearing.

In addition here is what I know about the WENDEL family >from their arrival
in the United States going backwards to Germany:

1. Emanuel WENDEL - based upon his death certificate and census records he
immigrated to the United States (New York) in 1864. I believe his birth
date was 22 Mar 1830 somewhere in Germany. His tombstone unfortunately did
not yield a birth date. I can't recall if the date give was based upon a
calculation or obtained >from a source document - I have copies of everything
to its not too hard to find out. He arrived with his wife Babetta LEVY, who
according to her tombstone was born May 28, 1835 in Thalfang, Germany.
Based upon conjecture and speculation, their marriage took place prior to
1857. Because when they arrived in the United States they already had two
children Rosa (born August 1857) and Bertha (born December 1861).

2. Emanuel WENDEL's parents were Max WENDEL and Lena LEVY both >from Germany
based upon consistent responses to the birthplace of his parents in several
different documents.

The other question that comes to mind is - what else could the name WENDEL
have been prior to Emanuel's immigration to America? I know that it is
commonly misspelled as WENDLE, WENDELL, WENDALL, or WENDAL, but I am
beginning to thing that maybe its an altered name and that's why I'm hitting
a road block end here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards,

Michael Wendel Kings Park, New York, USA mwendel@brainlink.com

WENDEL (Germany), LEVY (Thalfang, Germany), SCHAAP, BARON (White Russia), KATZ


German SIG #Germany INTRO - View Mate Photo and Name Question WENDEL #germany

Michael Wendel <mwendel@...>
 

Hi All,
Since I have joined the JewishGen site and mailing list I have been learning
a lot and I have gotten some excellent help because I just missed some good
resource sites on Google.

In addition, I have been able to help a few people here and there.'

But I am still a bit stumped on the issue of where the WENDEL family
originated >from in Germany.

I posted a photo, a semi-decent scan of an old tin type, on view mate -
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6228
- that probably dates back to the mid 1800s - I am hoping someone might have seen
this photo before or at least give me a ballpark time range based upon the
clothes they are wearing.

In addition here is what I know about the WENDEL family >from their arrival
in the United States going backwards to Germany:

1. Emanuel WENDEL - based upon his death certificate and census records he
immigrated to the United States (New York) in 1864. I believe his birth
date was 22 Mar 1830 somewhere in Germany. His tombstone unfortunately did
not yield a birth date. I can't recall if the date give was based upon a
calculation or obtained >from a source document - I have copies of everything
to its not too hard to find out. He arrived with his wife Babetta LEVY, who
according to her tombstone was born May 28, 1835 in Thalfang, Germany.
Based upon conjecture and speculation, their marriage took place prior to
1857. Because when they arrived in the United States they already had two
children Rosa (born August 1857) and Bertha (born December 1861).

2. Emanuel WENDEL's parents were Max WENDEL and Lena LEVY both >from Germany
based upon consistent responses to the birthplace of his parents in several
different documents.

The other question that comes to mind is - what else could the name WENDEL
have been prior to Emanuel's immigration to America? I know that it is
commonly misspelled as WENDLE, WENDELL, WENDALL, or WENDAL, but I am
beginning to thing that maybe its an altered name and that's why I'm hitting
a road block end here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards,

Michael Wendel Kings Park, New York, USA mwendel@brainlink.com

WENDEL (Germany), LEVY (Thalfang, Germany), SCHAAP, BARON (White Russia), KATZ


Re: Yiddish Versions/Lithuanian #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Western and Eastern Yiddish (two dialects, not two languages) are both
at least two-thirds Germanic in vocabulary and structure. Steve is
right that there is more Slavic influence in Eastern Yiddish. Also
there are different pronunciations of words in common, for example:

"in Western Yiddish, buying meat is expressed as kafn flash, in the area
where the two dialects converge as koyfn flaysh, in Lithuanian Yiddish
as keyfn fleys and in Ukrainian Yiddish as koyfn fleysh. (J.
Baumgarten)"

Western Yiddish ceased being spoken as an active tongue in the 18th
century as a consequence of assimilation. Philologos, columnist in the
FORWARD, suggests Western Yiddish may be the source of some British
slang.

Finally, Steve uses the interesting word "kibosh" in his message below.
Its origin is Yiddish! (the following is by Brit Michael Quinion on
www.worldwidewords.org.)

"It derives >from Yiddish. This is the most popular explanation, though
the details differ. One supposition is that it comes >from the Yiddish
word Kabas or Kabbasten, "to suppress". Another view is much stranger,
saying that it is an acronym formed >from the initial letters of three
Yiddish words meaning 18 British coins: the Hebrew chai for 18 and
shekel, meaning coin, with British in the middle. But, as Leo Rosten
argues, that ought to make kibrosh rather than kibosh. He does say that
there was special significance in the number 18, since in gematria (an
important method of divination among Jews at one time), this was the
number equivalent of the word life. "

Sonia Kovitz (I know I'm off topic so I'll put the kibosh on further
commentary)

There are, in fact, two separate languages, Western Yiddish, with a
primarily Germanic vocabulary, and Eastern Yiddish, with a Slavic
vocabulary. The grammar is similar, though. I have not seen any
information as to where exactly the line was between the two
versions <..........> my father got wind of it and put the
kibosh on the whole affair
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Thanks, Sonia, for knowing that this message is
verging on the off-topic. It will not be the start -- or the
continuation -- of a thread on Yiddish. A listserv called Mendele
is the appropriate place for discussion about Yiddish.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania RE: Yiddish Versions/Lithuanian #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Western and Eastern Yiddish (two dialects, not two languages) are both
at least two-thirds Germanic in vocabulary and structure. Steve is
right that there is more Slavic influence in Eastern Yiddish. Also
there are different pronunciations of words in common, for example:

"in Western Yiddish, buying meat is expressed as kafn flash, in the area
where the two dialects converge as koyfn flaysh, in Lithuanian Yiddish
as keyfn fleys and in Ukrainian Yiddish as koyfn fleysh. (J.
Baumgarten)"

Western Yiddish ceased being spoken as an active tongue in the 18th
century as a consequence of assimilation. Philologos, columnist in the
FORWARD, suggests Western Yiddish may be the source of some British
slang.

Finally, Steve uses the interesting word "kibosh" in his message below.
Its origin is Yiddish! (the following is by Brit Michael Quinion on
www.worldwidewords.org.)

"It derives >from Yiddish. This is the most popular explanation, though
the details differ. One supposition is that it comes >from the Yiddish
word Kabas or Kabbasten, "to suppress". Another view is much stranger,
saying that it is an acronym formed >from the initial letters of three
Yiddish words meaning 18 British coins: the Hebrew chai for 18 and
shekel, meaning coin, with British in the middle. But, as Leo Rosten
argues, that ought to make kibrosh rather than kibosh. He does say that
there was special significance in the number 18, since in gematria (an
important method of divination among Jews at one time), this was the
number equivalent of the word life. "

Sonia Kovitz (I know I'm off topic so I'll put the kibosh on further
commentary)

There are, in fact, two separate languages, Western Yiddish, with a
primarily Germanic vocabulary, and Eastern Yiddish, with a Slavic
vocabulary. The grammar is similar, though. I have not seen any
information as to where exactly the line was between the two
versions <..........> my father got wind of it and put the
kibosh on the whole affair
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Thanks, Sonia, for knowing that this message is
verging on the off-topic. It will not be the start -- or the
continuation -- of a thread on Yiddish. A listserv called Mendele
is the appropriate place for discussion about Yiddish.