Date   

Re: Skull and crossbone #germany

Ury Link
 

Dear Genners,
All what I have to said about this matter is only a guess of me. I was
several times on the Beit Chaim cemetery of the Dutch Portuguese Jews in
Ouderkerk near Amsterdam and I know that several Tombstone are with Skull
and Crossbones. I was also in the Portuguese cemetery in Curacau in the
Caribbean and also in Barbados in Bridgetown and in this cemetery you find
also the same. I have also in my home the beautiful book of D.Henrigues De
Castro about the Jewish cemetery in Ouderkerk written in the end of the 19
century and printed again as a facsimile in 1999 isbn: 90 9012829 8. In
this book are several tombstone pictures with the skull and crossbones and
I know >from my knowledge that in Germany and also in Austria you find
tombstones with the skull and crossbones in Jewish cemetery. I don't think
that it get out >from the symbol of the Pirates , that was not a Jewish
profession at all and also it have nothing to do with a membership of the
Chevra Kadisha because it was and is the custom in Holland (and perhaps in
other country also) that all the Chevra Kadish members are buried in the
same row with a separated row for the women.We find this symbol on several
tombs in all the part of the cemetery. In my opinion and it is only my
because I don't find support for this idea in the books that I have in my
home and I don't have the time to check it in another library (today is
Sunday!!), it get out >from the book of the prophet Yechezkeel (Ezechiel)
chepter 37 verse 1 - 14. in this chapter spoke the prophet about the so
called the vision of the dry bones, the revival of the dead bones of
Israel. My English is not so good that I can explain it in the correct
words (my excuse). The Portuguese Jews used on the tombstone a lot of
symbols, the was influenced >from the Spanish and Italian tombstone culture.
Until today we don't know who was the sculptor that do the beautiful
tombstone in Amsterdam in the 17 century,most of the researcher think the
came >from Italy. Pleas forgive me if I write a little to much about this
matter and all the conclusion are only my personnel meaning and not more.
Best regards,

Ury Link Amsterdam Holland <uryl@...>


German SIG #Germany Re:Skull and crossbone #germany

Ury Link
 

Dear Genners,
All what I have to said about this matter is only a guess of me. I was
several times on the Beit Chaim cemetery of the Dutch Portuguese Jews in
Ouderkerk near Amsterdam and I know that several Tombstone are with Skull
and Crossbones. I was also in the Portuguese cemetery in Curacau in the
Caribbean and also in Barbados in Bridgetown and in this cemetery you find
also the same. I have also in my home the beautiful book of D.Henrigues De
Castro about the Jewish cemetery in Ouderkerk written in the end of the 19
century and printed again as a facsimile in 1999 isbn: 90 9012829 8. In
this book are several tombstone pictures with the skull and crossbones and
I know >from my knowledge that in Germany and also in Austria you find
tombstones with the skull and crossbones in Jewish cemetery. I don't think
that it get out >from the symbol of the Pirates , that was not a Jewish
profession at all and also it have nothing to do with a membership of the
Chevra Kadisha because it was and is the custom in Holland (and perhaps in
other country also) that all the Chevra Kadish members are buried in the
same row with a separated row for the women.We find this symbol on several
tombs in all the part of the cemetery. In my opinion and it is only my
because I don't find support for this idea in the books that I have in my
home and I don't have the time to check it in another library (today is
Sunday!!), it get out >from the book of the prophet Yechezkeel (Ezechiel)
chepter 37 verse 1 - 14. in this chapter spoke the prophet about the so
called the vision of the dry bones, the revival of the dead bones of
Israel. My English is not so good that I can explain it in the correct
words (my excuse). The Portuguese Jews used on the tombstone a lot of
symbols, the was influenced >from the Spanish and Italian tombstone culture.
Until today we don't know who was the sculptor that do the beautiful
tombstone in Amsterdam in the 17 century,most of the researcher think the
came >from Italy. Pleas forgive me if I write a little to much about this
matter and all the conclusion are only my personnel meaning and not more.
Best regards,

Ury Link Amsterdam Holland <uryl@...>


Re: cross bones and skulls on grave stones #germany

Christopher Massur <cmassur@...>
 

Mr. Hyman asked about the symbol of cross bones and skulls on Sephardic
grave stones.
In the old Beth Haim Jewish cemetary of Curaçao (oldest grave >from 1668),
you can see a lot of the mentioned symbols on the graves >from the 17th and
18th century. In a little booklet published in the year 2001 by the Mikvé
Israel-Emanuel syngagogue, text by Mariette Kamphuis, when the community of
Curaçao celebrated 350 years on the island, it says about the ornamentation
on the stones: << ...decorated with a fascinating mix of Jewish and
Christian motifs....., .....Many of the symbols are borrowed >from the
Christian tradition......
I can add, that the cross bones and skull are in art history referred to as
"memento mori", a metapher for death, end of bodily existance, especially
the skull also seen on a lot of still life paintings >from the period. On the
graves, the skull and cross bones are sometimes combined with a hour-glass,
having the same meaning, running out of time. You must know that most of the
stones were ordered, sometimes in advance, and often made by Christian stone
masons.
They have nothing to do with pirates!!!!
On the other hand, the sailing ships also often seen on these graves refer
to the occupation of the deceased as either ship builder, merchant or even
captain (Curaçao). Other symbols found on early grave stones are chopped of
tree, chopped of branch or broken flower (especially for children), death
bed scenes, reference to the first name of the deceased, and/or death at
childbirth.
In the 19th century the tombs also show reference to the architectural
preferences of the time, i.e. neo classical themes. Stones for Cohen show the
blessing hands, stones for Levy less frequently, show the washing of the hands

Christopher Massur in Curaçao <cmassur@...>


German SIG #Germany Re: cross bones and skulls on grave stones #germany

Christopher Massur <cmassur@...>
 

Mr. Hyman asked about the symbol of cross bones and skulls on Sephardic
grave stones.
In the old Beth Haim Jewish cemetary of Curaçao (oldest grave >from 1668),
you can see a lot of the mentioned symbols on the graves >from the 17th and
18th century. In a little booklet published in the year 2001 by the Mikvé
Israel-Emanuel syngagogue, text by Mariette Kamphuis, when the community of
Curaçao celebrated 350 years on the island, it says about the ornamentation
on the stones: << ...decorated with a fascinating mix of Jewish and
Christian motifs....., .....Many of the symbols are borrowed >from the
Christian tradition......
I can add, that the cross bones and skull are in art history referred to as
"memento mori", a metapher for death, end of bodily existance, especially
the skull also seen on a lot of still life paintings >from the period. On the
graves, the skull and cross bones are sometimes combined with a hour-glass,
having the same meaning, running out of time. You must know that most of the
stones were ordered, sometimes in advance, and often made by Christian stone
masons.
They have nothing to do with pirates!!!!
On the other hand, the sailing ships also often seen on these graves refer
to the occupation of the deceased as either ship builder, merchant or even
captain (Curaçao). Other symbols found on early grave stones are chopped of
tree, chopped of branch or broken flower (especially for children), death
bed scenes, reference to the first name of the deceased, and/or death at
childbirth.
In the 19th century the tombs also show reference to the architectural
preferences of the time, i.e. neo classical themes. Stones for Cohen show the
blessing hands, stones for Levy less frequently, show the washing of the hands

Christopher Massur in Curaçao <cmassur@...>


Desperately Searching Susan FRIEDMAN #general

Rachelle <rlberliner@...>
 

Susan FRIEDMAN, daughter of Blanche & Irving >from NY, Queens and/or
Brooklyn, are you out there? Do you know you have family? We know you are an
only child. We do not know your married name nor your location. I hope you
will come forward and join our LEAF family.

Your grandparents, Sampson & Ida LEAF lived in Savannah, GA.. Your mom,
Blanche, was an infant in 1907 when your dad passed away. Your grandmother,
Ida, remarried Alexander (Abraham) GILBERT and lived in NY. You probably
were born in the NY area.

Please contact me privately.

*Anyone*! If you know this woman, please, please ask her to read this email.


Sincerely,

Rachelle LEAF Berliner

Savannah, GA

rlberliner@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Desperately Searching Susan FRIEDMAN #general

Rachelle <rlberliner@...>
 

Susan FRIEDMAN, daughter of Blanche & Irving >from NY, Queens and/or
Brooklyn, are you out there? Do you know you have family? We know you are an
only child. We do not know your married name nor your location. I hope you
will come forward and join our LEAF family.

Your grandparents, Sampson & Ida LEAF lived in Savannah, GA.. Your mom,
Blanche, was an infant in 1907 when your dad passed away. Your grandmother,
Ida, remarried Alexander (Abraham) GILBERT and lived in NY. You probably
were born in the NY area.

Please contact me privately.

*Anyone*! If you know this woman, please, please ask her to read this email.


Sincerely,

Rachelle LEAF Berliner

Savannah, GA

rlberliner@...


Survivors from Ahlem Camp #general

Carol Raspler
 

Dear All:
The Web Site listed here below belongs to the University of Florida's
documentary productions
department.

This past week articles appeared in major newspapers about the GIs who
liberated that Camp and the survivors whose photographs they took at the time
of liberation. The story concerns the reuniting of some of the survivors and
the GI photographers.

The Web Site asks us all to examine the photos and advise the University if
you recognize any of the persons within. This is the least we can do.
Sincerely, Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL
http://www.jou.ufl.edu/documentary/prod/default.asp

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct link to the Ahlem article is:
http://www.jou.ufl.edu/documentary/prod/Ahlem/default.asp


ZEEVI (WOLF)/LEADER/PREISZLER in Israel #general

Joseph Lonstein
 

Hi,

I'm searching for the family of Friedrich WOLF and his wife Rosa nee BRAND,
born in Vienna (1909/1911) and living in Israel. As far as I know, they
were both alive about five years ago, but I do not know if this is still the
case. Their children are Franklin ZEEVI (WOLF) born 1944, Marion WOLF
(married to Selvyn LEADER) born 1945, and Esther WOLF (married to Egon
PREISZLER) born 1947. Friedrich's mother and my ggm were first cousins, and
I'd like to obtain some details about his mother and her siblings. If
anyone knows this family, or how I can get in touch, it would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Lonstein
East Lansing, MI

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Survivors from Ahlem Camp #general

Carol Raspler
 

Dear All:
The Web Site listed here below belongs to the University of Florida's
documentary productions
department.

This past week articles appeared in major newspapers about the GIs who
liberated that Camp and the survivors whose photographs they took at the time
of liberation. The story concerns the reuniting of some of the survivors and
the GI photographers.

The Web Site asks us all to examine the photos and advise the University if
you recognize any of the persons within. This is the least we can do.
Sincerely, Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL
http://www.jou.ufl.edu/documentary/prod/default.asp

MODERATOR NOTE: The direct link to the Ahlem article is:
http://www.jou.ufl.edu/documentary/prod/Ahlem/default.asp


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ZEEVI (WOLF)/LEADER/PREISZLER in Israel #general

Joseph Lonstein
 

Hi,

I'm searching for the family of Friedrich WOLF and his wife Rosa nee BRAND,
born in Vienna (1909/1911) and living in Israel. As far as I know, they
were both alive about five years ago, but I do not know if this is still the
case. Their children are Franklin ZEEVI (WOLF) born 1944, Marion WOLF
(married to Selvyn LEADER) born 1945, and Esther WOLF (married to Egon
PREISZLER) born 1947. Friedrich's mother and my ggm were first cousins, and
I'd like to obtain some details about his mother and her siblings. If
anyone knows this family, or how I can get in touch, it would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Lonstein
East Lansing, MI

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


NAIGEBAUR #lodz #poland

Yisrael Asper
 

My mother's second father Yosef Shlomo NAIGEBAUR was a Gerer Chassid born
July 3 1901 in the Sasnov area, a tailor but in Poland was a Melamed. His
father was a Gerer Chassid also. My grandfather lived in addition to Poland
eventually in Frankurt. His was related through his first wife to a family
called the PILLERs and also the GITTLERs (spelling perhaps wrong). Any
information on these families will be greatly appreciated.

Yisrael Asper

Pittsburgh PA

yisraelasper@...


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland NAIGEBAUR #lodz #poland

Yisrael Asper
 

My mother's second father Yosef Shlomo NAIGEBAUR was a Gerer Chassid born
July 3 1901 in the Sasnov area, a tailor but in Poland was a Melamed. His
father was a Gerer Chassid also. My grandfather lived in addition to Poland
eventually in Frankurt. His was related through his first wife to a family
called the PILLERs and also the GITTLERs (spelling perhaps wrong). Any
information on these families will be greatly appreciated.

Yisrael Asper

Pittsburgh PA

yisraelasper@...


transliteration string #general

ac <anitac47@...>
 

As there has been a discussion of late on how to transliterate names, I
have a question:

When my relatives came over >from Odessa would their travel papers been
written in Cryillic? Or:
-would it have been transliterated by the Russian government (seems
unlikely) with documents written in a Western and Cyrillic alphabets?
-would it have been transliterated by the port authorities >from wherever
they left?
-or might it have been that the shipping line agents who issued tickets or
whatever were fluent in the local language and could transliterate the names?

I assume one of these (or perhaps at another point) would be true since all
the transliterations on manifests I have found are consistent (among Jews
and Christians having this name) aside >from the occasional vowel change.
Was there a standard or a set of international travel rules in the 1890s
for doing this?

Thanks,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching NADWORNY everywhere, anywhere


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen transliteration string #general

ac <anitac47@...>
 

As there has been a discussion of late on how to transliterate names, I
have a question:

When my relatives came over >from Odessa would their travel papers been
written in Cryillic? Or:
-would it have been transliterated by the Russian government (seems
unlikely) with documents written in a Western and Cyrillic alphabets?
-would it have been transliterated by the port authorities >from wherever
they left?
-or might it have been that the shipping line agents who issued tickets or
whatever were fluent in the local language and could transliterate the names?

I assume one of these (or perhaps at another point) would be true since all
the transliterations on manifests I have found are consistent (among Jews
and Christians having this name) aside >from the occasional vowel change.
Was there a standard or a set of international travel rules in the 1890s
for doing this?

Thanks,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching NADWORNY everywhere, anywhere


JGS of Georgia March Meeting #general

Sandi Goldsmith
 

Using Internet Resources in Genealogical Research

When Sunday, March 6, 2005

Time: 1:30 - 4:30 PM

Where: Cuba Genealogy Center
(at the William Bremen Jewish Heritage Museum)
1440 Spring St. NW, Atlanta, GA

There are so many sources of information on the Internet to help with
genealogical resources, how can you possibly know when and why to use them ?
What is the correct methodology in using the Internet to help grow your family
tree ?
Walk through real-life examples of using the Internet to track down information
about your ancestors and relatives.

A few examples include: tracking down living descendants >from an individual
in the 1850's, finding individuals in the census that are not listed in
online census indexes, using obituaries to trace family members, determining
relationships >from people buried in family plots, using property databases to
acquire family information, and more. Finding online resources that are relevant
to your specific situation takes work and we'll show you how.

Taught by Gary Palgon, chairman of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Georgia,
and Family Tree Expert. The following Sunday, a hands-on workshop will be held
to allow experts to help individuals use the sites themselves visit.
http://www.thebreman.org/jgsg.htm for details on the workshop.

The meeting is free for Breman members and $5 for non-members, payable at the
door.

Please check our web sites for details and additional information.
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsg

Sandi Goldsmith
Alpharetta, GA


Re: EIDB occupations #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

On the ship manifect my mother was listed as housewife, although she was a
professional seamstress, and my father was listed as a tailor, although his
eyesight was so bad he was legally blind in his old age. People just said
what they thought would be best for them. In America my father bought and
sold as he had done in Ukraine.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: marlene finkelstein [mailto:m51marlene@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:15 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: EIDB occupations

I think that I have located the person that I am looking for on a 1911 ship
manifest on the EIDB but am puzzled as to why his occupation was listed as a
joiner (previously explained by the Jewishgen group to be a tinsmith or a
carpenter). Most of the other info on the manifest seems to be correct. I
know that the person that I am seeking was >from a family that raised cattle
& farmed in Volhynia Gubernia and that he became a produce dealer here in
the United States. Have others found a lack of correlation between the
manifest information and " reality"? Perhaps a joiner was more desirable
immigrant than a farmer arriving in NYC??

Much thanks for your advice.

Marlene Finkelstein
New Jersey, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGS of Georgia March Meeting #general

Sandi Goldsmith
 

Using Internet Resources in Genealogical Research

When Sunday, March 6, 2005

Time: 1:30 - 4:30 PM

Where: Cuba Genealogy Center
(at the William Bremen Jewish Heritage Museum)
1440 Spring St. NW, Atlanta, GA

There are so many sources of information on the Internet to help with
genealogical resources, how can you possibly know when and why to use them ?
What is the correct methodology in using the Internet to help grow your family
tree ?
Walk through real-life examples of using the Internet to track down information
about your ancestors and relatives.

A few examples include: tracking down living descendants >from an individual
in the 1850's, finding individuals in the census that are not listed in
online census indexes, using obituaries to trace family members, determining
relationships >from people buried in family plots, using property databases to
acquire family information, and more. Finding online resources that are relevant
to your specific situation takes work and we'll show you how.

Taught by Gary Palgon, chairman of the Jewish Genealogical Society of Georgia,
and Family Tree Expert. The following Sunday, a hands-on workshop will be held
to allow experts to help individuals use the sites themselves visit.
http://www.thebreman.org/jgsg.htm for details on the workshop.

The meeting is free for Breman members and $5 for non-members, payable at the
door.

Please check our web sites for details and additional information.
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsg

Sandi Goldsmith
Alpharetta, GA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: EIDB occupations #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

On the ship manifect my mother was listed as housewife, although she was a
professional seamstress, and my father was listed as a tailor, although his
eyesight was so bad he was legally blind in his old age. People just said
what they thought would be best for them. In America my father bought and
sold as he had done in Ukraine.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: marlene finkelstein [mailto:m51marlene@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:15 PM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: EIDB occupations

I think that I have located the person that I am looking for on a 1911 ship
manifest on the EIDB but am puzzled as to why his occupation was listed as a
joiner (previously explained by the Jewishgen group to be a tinsmith or a
carpenter). Most of the other info on the manifest seems to be correct. I
know that the person that I am seeking was >from a family that raised cattle
& farmed in Volhynia Gubernia and that he became a produce dealer here in
the United States. Have others found a lack of correlation between the
manifest information and " reality"? Perhaps a joiner was more desirable
immigrant than a farmer arriving in NYC??

Much thanks for your advice.

Marlene Finkelstein
New Jersey, USA


family GRANAAT #general

Max & Bertha van Dam <berthavd@...>
 

For a friend we are looking for Deborah GRANAAT born june 1923 in Amsterdam
Holland. Her parents were Siegfried GRANAAT and Wilhelmina PTASZNIK.

We think the family went to America just before or at the beginning of WWII.

Hope somebody can help us locate her or her decendants.

Yours

Bertha van Dam
Rechovot
Israel

Researching the following Dutch families: BROMET(Worldwide); CONEN; CRACAU;
DOOF; HAMMELBURG; LOONSTEIN; NABARRO, (Holland and England); SOESTER; SWAAP;
TRIJBETS/TRIJBETZ/TRIJBITZ; VAN CLEEF/VAN KLEEF; VAN DAM; and some other
Dutch families


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen family GRANAAT #general

Max & Bertha van Dam <berthavd@...>
 

For a friend we are looking for Deborah GRANAAT born june 1923 in Amsterdam
Holland. Her parents were Siegfried GRANAAT and Wilhelmina PTASZNIK.

We think the family went to America just before or at the beginning of WWII.

Hope somebody can help us locate her or her decendants.

Yours

Bertha van Dam
Rechovot
Israel

Researching the following Dutch families: BROMET(Worldwide); CONEN; CRACAU;
DOOF; HAMMELBURG; LOONSTEIN; NABARRO, (Holland and England); SOESTER; SWAAP;
TRIJBETS/TRIJBETZ/TRIJBITZ; VAN CLEEF/VAN KLEEF; VAN DAM; and some other
Dutch families