Date   

Pedlar Certificates. #unitedkingdom

Shirley Collier <shirley.collier@...>
 

I was interested in the mention of a Pedlar certificate in a recent mailing.

A couple of my ancestors became pedlars on arrival in the UK. Are records
available, and if so, where are they?

Thanks.

Shirley Collier
East of London UK

"Researching:
BERMAN/BEARMAN - Piesk,Lublin/Warsaw
HARRIS - Sieradtz
ROZAINSKY/WAPNASH - Rozan/Czestochowa

TILLES/TRINKENREICH - Tarnow/Krakow----- Original Message -----


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Pedlar Certificates. #unitedkingdom

Shirley Collier <shirley.collier@...>
 

I was interested in the mention of a Pedlar certificate in a recent mailing.

A couple of my ancestors became pedlars on arrival in the UK. Are records
available, and if so, where are they?

Thanks.

Shirley Collier
East of London UK

"Researching:
BERMAN/BEARMAN - Piesk,Lublin/Warsaw
HARRIS - Sieradtz
ROZAINSKY/WAPNASH - Rozan/Czestochowa

TILLES/TRINKENREICH - Tarnow/Krakow----- Original Message -----


ONLINE CLASS: Jewish Internet Research begins May 5 #belarus

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Belarus SIG and its component databases are mentioned in
paragraph 5 below.

===============

Hello, Genners.

Micha Reisel and I would like to inform you that our online Jewish Internet
Research Class on www.myfamily.com will begin May 5 for four weeks.
The class includes limited access to ancestry.com databases and a dedicated
class website for 11 months following the interactive class. There are two
online chats each week with transcripts posted for those who cannot make the
chats, lessons >from the detailed syllabus are posted weekly, and the website
makes it easy for students to ask questions and receive answers.
Our past classes in Basic Jewish Research and the Jewish Internet Research
have drawn students >from various countries, and some of them have begun to
work together as they search for information on names and places of common
interest.
The Internet class offers detailed information on utilizing the Web to find
the information you need to further your research. There's a lot of data out
there waiting to be discovered and this class can help you locate what you
need.
In general terms, the class covers an intro to the internet; searching
general sites and indexes; searching genealogy sites not specifically
Jewish; searching general Jewish sites, indices and resources; searching
JewishGen's components and special projects, all SIGs and their component
databases such as Belarus SIG's All Belarus Database and Static Pages
Search, etc.; online archival research; and much more.
The class is fee-based and registration is open now. To learn more,
copy-and-paste this long link into your browser:
http://www.myfamily.com/isapi.dll?c=home&htx=training2FOnlineClass&class=22&school=GEN
or go to www.myfamily.com, look for "Family History" and click on "Online
Genealogy Classes."

If you have questions, please email Micha Reisel, micha@genealogy.org.il, or
myself, schelly@genealogy.org.il.

With best wishes,
Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
schelly@genealogy.org.il
schelly@allrelative.net


Belarus SIG #Belarus ONLINE CLASS: Jewish Internet Research begins May 5 #belarus

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

Belarus SIG and its component databases are mentioned in
paragraph 5 below.

===============

Hello, Genners.

Micha Reisel and I would like to inform you that our online Jewish Internet
Research Class on www.myfamily.com will begin May 5 for four weeks.
The class includes limited access to ancestry.com databases and a dedicated
class website for 11 months following the interactive class. There are two
online chats each week with transcripts posted for those who cannot make the
chats, lessons >from the detailed syllabus are posted weekly, and the website
makes it easy for students to ask questions and receive answers.
Our past classes in Basic Jewish Research and the Jewish Internet Research
have drawn students >from various countries, and some of them have begun to
work together as they search for information on names and places of common
interest.
The Internet class offers detailed information on utilizing the Web to find
the information you need to further your research. There's a lot of data out
there waiting to be discovered and this class can help you locate what you
need.
In general terms, the class covers an intro to the internet; searching
general sites and indexes; searching genealogy sites not specifically
Jewish; searching general Jewish sites, indices and resources; searching
JewishGen's components and special projects, all SIGs and their component
databases such as Belarus SIG's All Belarus Database and Static Pages
Search, etc.; online archival research; and much more.
The class is fee-based and registration is open now. To learn more,
copy-and-paste this long link into your browser:
http://www.myfamily.com/isapi.dll?c=home&htx=training2FOnlineClass&class=22&school=GEN
or go to www.myfamily.com, look for "Family History" and click on "Online
Genealogy Classes."

If you have questions, please email Micha Reisel, micha@genealogy.org.il, or
myself, schelly@genealogy.org.il.

With best wishes,
Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
schelly@genealogy.org.il
schelly@allrelative.net


Early Registration LV 2005 Conference extended to 8 May #germany

GerSig@...
 

We have extended the early bird registration for the 2005 IAJGS Conference
in Las Vegas, which will be on July 10 to 15. The extension is due to
comments we had received because of the Passover holiday occurring this
week. The early bird registration will be extended one week to May 8, 2005.

Charlotte Showel, President JGSSN Samchar@cox.net


German SIG #Germany Early Registration LV 2005 Conference extended to 8 May #germany

GerSig@...
 

We have extended the early bird registration for the 2005 IAJGS Conference
in Las Vegas, which will be on July 10 to 15. The extension is due to
comments we had received because of the Passover holiday occurring this
week. The early bird registration will be extended one week to May 8, 2005.

Charlotte Showel, President JGSSN Samchar@cox.net


SITE CITE - Sample Letters to archives etc. - in many languages #germany

Hansmartin Unger <hans-martinunger@...>
 

Dear GerSiggers
receiving a Mail of Mrs. Miriam Ferber of Jerusalem: follow the website:

www.genealogienetz.de/misc/letters

[The website can be read in English or German]

and you will find sample letters in various language ( German-English etc.)
Very best,

Hansmartin Unger, St. Gallen, Switzerland <hans-martinunger@freesurf.ch>


German SIG #Germany SITE CITE - Sample Letters to archives etc. - in many languages #germany

Hansmartin Unger <hans-martinunger@...>
 

Dear GerSiggers
receiving a Mail of Mrs. Miriam Ferber of Jerusalem: follow the website:

www.genealogienetz.de/misc/letters

[The website can be read in English or German]

and you will find sample letters in various language ( German-English etc.)
Very best,

Hansmartin Unger, St. Gallen, Switzerland <hans-martinunger@freesurf.ch>


SITE CITE - Posen 1926 business and telephone directory #germany

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

A 1926 Posen business and telephone directory is available online at:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=9725

Clicking on "Content" on the left will take you to a page prompting you to
download a necessary .DjVu plugin or, if you already have it, view the directory.

If you are a Mac user, you should instead download the plugin from:

http://www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_download.php?detail=doc_djvu_plugin&pl
atform=macx. Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu near Washington, D.C.


German SIG #Germany SITE CITE - Posen 1926 business and telephone directory #germany

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

A 1926 Posen business and telephone directory is available online at:

http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=9725

Clicking on "Content" on the left will take you to a page prompting you to
download a necessary .DjVu plugin or, if you already have it, view the directory.

If you are a Mac user, you should instead download the plugin from:

http://www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_download.php?detail=doc_djvu_plugin&pl
atform=macx. Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu near Washington, D.C.


Re: R' Yosef CHARIF #rabbinic

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

On 2004.04.27, R.C. Klein <rachack@futurecities.com> wrote:

[...] It is supposedly known that R' Yosef CHARIF is a
descendant of the TaZ (and BaCH) and ReMA. I would like to know
if this lineage is documented and exactly how many generations are
there between those Gedolim and him and what the names of those in
between.
Gutten Moed,

This is info that I have on a R' Yosef "Charif" Stern-Lichtig. He
was an ancestor of my cousin, Rabbi Yosef Asher Weiss, today, Rosh
HaYeshiva at Yeshivas Ohr Hadas (in Staten Island). His cousin (not
mine) is married to one of the daughters of the Klausenberger Rebbe
in Kiryat Sanz, Israel.

They related to me that this R' Yosef "Charif" (of Zborov, Slovakia)
was the son of the Lubliner Rebbe. R' Yosef "Charif" had a son
R' Meir ASH, who had a daughter Sarah ASH. She married R' Tzvi WEISS
(1818 - 1897) who was Ruv in Dumbrov & Zborov. They had a son R'
Moshe WEISS (1850 - 1916) who had a son R' Yosef WEISS (c.1874-
c.1928) and was Ruv in Zborov. He had a son Moshe WEISS (1900?- 1944
PIH) of Salush (Vino-Gradov), Slovakia. He was my cousin's
grandfather.

For more info on this family you can contact me privately. I
would also like to know if your ECKSTEIN research might have any
connection to the Bnei Yissoschur. You can see info on this branch
in my tree at:
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/eckstein/eckstein.htm

Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
moishe@langsam.com


Exciting new resource for Polish research #ciechanow #poland

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

Polish Declarations of Admiration and Friendship for the United States

Last November (2004) I visited the Library of Congress in Washington DC. I was
looking for some specific material that I thought was to be found at the L.of C.
After searching the catalogues the librarian on duty suggested that I speak with
Ron Bachman, Area Specialist for Poland - European Division. She placed a phone
call and Ron came up to meet me. The material I was looking for was not to be
found at the L.of C. but,if I were interested he would tell me about something
new he was working on. Don escorted me to the Library of Congress Manuscript
Room where he showed me samples of the material that would soon be available to
the public. I can't begin to describe the emotions that ran through me when I
saw the material. I wanted to run out and tell everyone about it. But... since
the material was still being catalogued and prepared he asked me to "keep it
under my hat".

I received e-mail >from Don Bachman just before Pessach telling me the project was
finished and giving me permission to "spread the word". This I am doing with great
pleasure! To describe this new resource I will quote >from the Library of Congress
press release. The quote is given with full permission:

<< Polish Declarations of Admiration and Friendship for the United States
is a presentation of the first 13 manuscript volumes of a larger collection
of 111 volumes compiled in Poland in 1926 and delivered to President Calvin
Coolidge at the White House to honor the 150th anniversary of the
Declaration of Independence. Richly illustrated with original works by
prominent Polish graphic artists, the collection includes the greetings and
signatures of national, provincial, and local government officials,
representatives of religious, social, business, academic, and military
institutions, and approximately five-and-a-half million school
children. At President Coolidge's behest, this unique gift was transferred
to the Library of Congress, where it remained largely forgotten for some
seven decades. In 1996 the collection was "rediscovered" serendipitously
during the visit of Polish First Lady Jolanta Kwasniewska and other
dignitaries >from the Embassy of Poland. The collection generated such
intense interest that the Library, in cooperation with the Embassy of
Poland, organized a special program on May 2, 1997 to showcase this symbol
of the enduring friendship between Poland and the United States.

More than an impressive artifact, the collection is an important, largely
unexplored primary source for genealogical, historical, and sociological
research for it includes the signatures of nearly one-sixth of the
population of Poland as it existed in 1926.

This searchable online presentation is a complete facsimile of the six
oversized presentation volumes and the seven volumes of secondary school
signatures. Researchers are now able to search by keyword (English or
Polish without diacritics) and locate information about particular
villages, cities, districts, provinces, institutions, or organizations. >>

What exactly are these books? They represent entries >from hundreds of elementary
and secondary schools through out Poland, including shtetlach in former Galicia
that were part of Poland in the inter-war years. Every town, every village, every
shtetl that had an elementary school is represented. Every pupil in every class
signed his/her name. I looked, of course, at the pages for the schools in the
shtetlach where my family came >from and recognized surnames, saw their handwriting
and with tears in my eyes turned the pages to see more.

The digitalized secondary school volumes can be seen at:
<http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/egwinv/egwdir.html>http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/egwinv/egwdir.html

Ron Bachman did a heroic amount of work to create the page-level indexing that
is crucial for making these materials work on the Internet.

Only the secondary school volumes are available on line. There are no plans to
digitalize the primary school volumes but they have been catalogued and indexed
and
copies for shtetl entries can be ordered. You can contact Ron Bachman for further
details and for help in navigating the website. His e-mail address is given here
with full permission (please mention my name when contacting him):
"Ronald D Bachman" <rbac@loc.gov>.

Susana Leistner Bloch
Coordinator, JewishGen ShtetLinks Project
Coordinator, JewishGen International Desk Project
Coordinator, Kolbuszowa Region Research Group
Coordinator, Suchostaw Region Research Group


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: R' Yosef CHARIF #rabbinic

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

On 2004.04.27, R.C. Klein <rachack@futurecities.com> wrote:

[...] It is supposedly known that R' Yosef CHARIF is a
descendant of the TaZ (and BaCH) and ReMA. I would like to know
if this lineage is documented and exactly how many generations are
there between those Gedolim and him and what the names of those in
between.
Gutten Moed,

This is info that I have on a R' Yosef "Charif" Stern-Lichtig. He
was an ancestor of my cousin, Rabbi Yosef Asher Weiss, today, Rosh
HaYeshiva at Yeshivas Ohr Hadas (in Staten Island). His cousin (not
mine) is married to one of the daughters of the Klausenberger Rebbe
in Kiryat Sanz, Israel.

They related to me that this R' Yosef "Charif" (of Zborov, Slovakia)
was the son of the Lubliner Rebbe. R' Yosef "Charif" had a son
R' Meir ASH, who had a daughter Sarah ASH. She married R' Tzvi WEISS
(1818 - 1897) who was Ruv in Dumbrov & Zborov. They had a son R'
Moshe WEISS (1850 - 1916) who had a son R' Yosef WEISS (c.1874-
c.1928) and was Ruv in Zborov. He had a son Moshe WEISS (1900?- 1944
PIH) of Salush (Vino-Gradov), Slovakia. He was my cousin's
grandfather.

For more info on this family you can contact me privately. I
would also like to know if your ECKSTEIN research might have any
connection to the Bnei Yissoschur. You can see info on this branch
in my tree at:
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/eckstein/eckstein.htm

Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
moishe@langsam.com


#Ciechanow #Poland Exciting new resource for Polish research #ciechanow #poland

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

Polish Declarations of Admiration and Friendship for the United States

Last November (2004) I visited the Library of Congress in Washington DC. I was
looking for some specific material that I thought was to be found at the L.of C.
After searching the catalogues the librarian on duty suggested that I speak with
Ron Bachman, Area Specialist for Poland - European Division. She placed a phone
call and Ron came up to meet me. The material I was looking for was not to be
found at the L.of C. but,if I were interested he would tell me about something
new he was working on. Don escorted me to the Library of Congress Manuscript
Room where he showed me samples of the material that would soon be available to
the public. I can't begin to describe the emotions that ran through me when I
saw the material. I wanted to run out and tell everyone about it. But... since
the material was still being catalogued and prepared he asked me to "keep it
under my hat".

I received e-mail >from Don Bachman just before Pessach telling me the project was
finished and giving me permission to "spread the word". This I am doing with great
pleasure! To describe this new resource I will quote >from the Library of Congress
press release. The quote is given with full permission:

<< Polish Declarations of Admiration and Friendship for the United States
is a presentation of the first 13 manuscript volumes of a larger collection
of 111 volumes compiled in Poland in 1926 and delivered to President Calvin
Coolidge at the White House to honor the 150th anniversary of the
Declaration of Independence. Richly illustrated with original works by
prominent Polish graphic artists, the collection includes the greetings and
signatures of national, provincial, and local government officials,
representatives of religious, social, business, academic, and military
institutions, and approximately five-and-a-half million school
children. At President Coolidge's behest, this unique gift was transferred
to the Library of Congress, where it remained largely forgotten for some
seven decades. In 1996 the collection was "rediscovered" serendipitously
during the visit of Polish First Lady Jolanta Kwasniewska and other
dignitaries >from the Embassy of Poland. The collection generated such
intense interest that the Library, in cooperation with the Embassy of
Poland, organized a special program on May 2, 1997 to showcase this symbol
of the enduring friendship between Poland and the United States.

More than an impressive artifact, the collection is an important, largely
unexplored primary source for genealogical, historical, and sociological
research for it includes the signatures of nearly one-sixth of the
population of Poland as it existed in 1926.

This searchable online presentation is a complete facsimile of the six
oversized presentation volumes and the seven volumes of secondary school
signatures. Researchers are now able to search by keyword (English or
Polish without diacritics) and locate information about particular
villages, cities, districts, provinces, institutions, or organizations. >>

What exactly are these books? They represent entries >from hundreds of elementary
and secondary schools through out Poland, including shtetlach in former Galicia
that were part of Poland in the inter-war years. Every town, every village, every
shtetl that had an elementary school is represented. Every pupil in every class
signed his/her name. I looked, of course, at the pages for the schools in the
shtetlach where my family came >from and recognized surnames, saw their handwriting
and with tears in my eyes turned the pages to see more.

The digitalized secondary school volumes can be seen at:
<http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/egwinv/egwdir.html>http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/egwinv/egwdir.html

Ron Bachman did a heroic amount of work to create the page-level indexing that
is crucial for making these materials work on the Internet.

Only the secondary school volumes are available on line. There are no plans to
digitalize the primary school volumes but they have been catalogued and indexed
and
copies for shtetl entries can be ordered. You can contact Ron Bachman for further
details and for help in navigating the website. His e-mail address is given here
with full permission (please mention my name when contacting him):
"Ronald D Bachman" <rbac@loc.gov>.

Susana Leistner Bloch
Coordinator, JewishGen ShtetLinks Project
Coordinator, JewishGen International Desk Project
Coordinator, Kolbuszowa Region Research Group
Coordinator, Suchostaw Region Research Group


Part II: Nathan Altmann and family - Ronsperg [Bohemia], England and Jamaica #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

We are familiar with our Bohemian and Moravian forebears moving around within
the Habsburg Empire. The Familianten Act of 1726 caused many young men to move
from their family homes to Hungary, Poland and even further afield. But here is
an unusual tale of an adventurous young man, Nathan ALTMANN, a first-born
familiant, who left home in Ronsperg [Pobezovice], Klattauer Kreis in 1784,
aged 17, to travel to Gravesend, Kent and then settle in Plymouth, England.

We can read this fascinating declaration made in Plymouth, by Nathan on
13 August 1801:

"I forever renounce and disclaim of all the possessions of my father Joseph
ALTMANN Inhabiter of the Herrshaft of Ronsperg in the town of Ronsberg Co.
Klattauer Kingdom of Bohemia, to which possessions being the first born son
I might be intitled to, as well local as Familiae Numerum, and that I transfer
them to my second brother Joachim ALTMANN who in consideration thereof is to
be married to Miss Theresa MOSSES. As I am now near 18 years in the Kingdom
of England, in the town of Plymouth established and settled and having no
children."

Nathan, born Ronsperg 1766, died 12 Oct 1849 and buried on Plymouth Hoe
[Tomb B15], was the eldest son of Joseph ALTMANN - his Hebrew name was Nathan
ben Joseph K"Z, ie he and his sons were Cohenim.

Now, with the 1793 census of the Klattauer Kreis in front of me, I can
miraculously reconstruct the whole family, 222 years after Nathan and his
brother Joachim arrived in England.

Grandfather Samson ALTMANN [a first-born familiant, aged 79] was living in half
of house No 5, Ronsperg with his wife, grandmother Rachel aged 79. Samson
dealt in fleeces.

Samson's first-born son Joseph [51] was living with them together with his
older wife wife Rebeka [61]. Joseph was to inherit the house >from his father
Samson on his death. This is explicitly stated in the census. Joseph was
involved in Rosoliziehen [see reference 3], feathers and leather. Joseph's
children are Nathan {27}, Joachim {< 27}, Rosa {20}, Anna (18).

And here comes the amusing transcription error I discussed yesterday. Nathan
and Joachim are listed as Handlungsdiener in Landau. For Landau read London!
It would have needed a real leap of imagination for the young student-
transcribers in Prague to imagine that Nathan and Joachim were in London, but
we know >from various sources that Nathan was there, but I had no idea that
Joachim was there too!

Also living in Ronsperg house No 5 were Joseph's brother Markus [a zweitgeborener]
aged 43, his wife Sarah [37] and their large brood of children: David {16},
Michael {14}, Abraham {1}, Rebeka {19}, Esther {12}, Judith {8}, Anna {6} and
Philipina {3}.

Markus was also involved in Rosolibrennen.

There were three generations living in the house - a total of 18 people aged
from 1 to 79!
Could it be that Nathan and Joachim could not stand the noise and overcrowding
any longer and decided to move out of the family home? Or could the Schutzherr
of Ronsperg have sent two intelligent young men to investigate trade
possibilities in London? After all, they are designated as "handlungsdiener"
[literally, servants of commerce]. We shall never know.

We do know that Nathan married and that his two sons, Sampson and Michael Israel,
became surgeons in Kingston, Jamaica. If you are adept at reading the England
census data, you can see descendants born in Jamaica and Plymouth living in
London {Hackney} in 1871 {look for Asher Altman}.

We sadly do not know if Nathan ever went back home again to see his large
family in Ronsperg in the Klattauer Kreis, but we do know that after more than
sixty years in England he signed his will in Hebrew with his Jewish name. It
appears likely that Joachim returned to Ronsperg to marry and that Nathan
corresponded with him and sent this legal declaration back to the family in
English! That in itself must have caused a stir in provincial Ronsperg in 1801.

from Ronsperg to London and Plymouth and then, with the next generations,
Kingston, Jamaica and Montreal - I am sure Nathan and his sons were the cause
of much wonderment amongst friends and family he left behind in far away Bohemia.
Nathan too must often have dreamt of his childhood home and the delicious Rosoli
liqueur, produced by his father and uncle!

Celia Male [UK]

References: There are long Urls in Refs 1 and 3. Remember to copy and paste them
all into your browser.

1. I highly recommend this website about the fascinating life of Nathan Joseph
of Plymouth:

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Susser/biognathanjoseph.htm

There appear to have been descendants of one of the sons living in Montreal in
the late 1800s.

2.The ALTMANN family of Ronsperg, Klattauer Kreis: see

Soupis zidovskych rodin v Cechach z roku 1793, Vol V p.259-260 [ISBN 80-86712-21-4}

3. What is Rosoli? Answer: a liqueur made >from various fruits including cherries
and plums; read the German description in:

http://www.chefkoch.de/forum/2,2,104712,4,400,50/
Rosoli-was-ist-das-und-hat-jemand-ein-Rezept-dafuer.html

4. Search the SIG message archives with the key word "Ronsperg". You will find
a surprise in the JCR-UK message archive on 9 Aug 2002: ALTMAN >from Ronsperg
(Pobezovice), Bohemia to London UK. This points to the danger of restricting
our searches to our own geographic areas! I only just found it too ...


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Part II: Nathan Altmann and family - Ronsperg [Bohemia], England and Jamaica #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

We are familiar with our Bohemian and Moravian forebears moving around within
the Habsburg Empire. The Familianten Act of 1726 caused many young men to move
from their family homes to Hungary, Poland and even further afield. But here is
an unusual tale of an adventurous young man, Nathan ALTMANN, a first-born
familiant, who left home in Ronsperg [Pobezovice], Klattauer Kreis in 1784,
aged 17, to travel to Gravesend, Kent and then settle in Plymouth, England.

We can read this fascinating declaration made in Plymouth, by Nathan on
13 August 1801:

"I forever renounce and disclaim of all the possessions of my father Joseph
ALTMANN Inhabiter of the Herrshaft of Ronsperg in the town of Ronsberg Co.
Klattauer Kingdom of Bohemia, to which possessions being the first born son
I might be intitled to, as well local as Familiae Numerum, and that I transfer
them to my second brother Joachim ALTMANN who in consideration thereof is to
be married to Miss Theresa MOSSES. As I am now near 18 years in the Kingdom
of England, in the town of Plymouth established and settled and having no
children."

Nathan, born Ronsperg 1766, died 12 Oct 1849 and buried on Plymouth Hoe
[Tomb B15], was the eldest son of Joseph ALTMANN - his Hebrew name was Nathan
ben Joseph K"Z, ie he and his sons were Cohenim.

Now, with the 1793 census of the Klattauer Kreis in front of me, I can
miraculously reconstruct the whole family, 222 years after Nathan and his
brother Joachim arrived in England.

Grandfather Samson ALTMANN [a first-born familiant, aged 79] was living in half
of house No 5, Ronsperg with his wife, grandmother Rachel aged 79. Samson
dealt in fleeces.

Samson's first-born son Joseph [51] was living with them together with his
older wife wife Rebeka [61]. Joseph was to inherit the house >from his father
Samson on his death. This is explicitly stated in the census. Joseph was
involved in Rosoliziehen [see reference 3], feathers and leather. Joseph's
children are Nathan {27}, Joachim {< 27}, Rosa {20}, Anna (18).

And here comes the amusing transcription error I discussed yesterday. Nathan
and Joachim are listed as Handlungsdiener in Landau. For Landau read London!
It would have needed a real leap of imagination for the young student-
transcribers in Prague to imagine that Nathan and Joachim were in London, but
we know >from various sources that Nathan was there, but I had no idea that
Joachim was there too!

Also living in Ronsperg house No 5 were Joseph's brother Markus [a zweitgeborener]
aged 43, his wife Sarah [37] and their large brood of children: David {16},
Michael {14}, Abraham {1}, Rebeka {19}, Esther {12}, Judith {8}, Anna {6} and
Philipina {3}.

Markus was also involved in Rosolibrennen.

There were three generations living in the house - a total of 18 people aged
from 1 to 79!
Could it be that Nathan and Joachim could not stand the noise and overcrowding
any longer and decided to move out of the family home? Or could the Schutzherr
of Ronsperg have sent two intelligent young men to investigate trade
possibilities in London? After all, they are designated as "handlungsdiener"
[literally, servants of commerce]. We shall never know.

We do know that Nathan married and that his two sons, Sampson and Michael Israel,
became surgeons in Kingston, Jamaica. If you are adept at reading the England
census data, you can see descendants born in Jamaica and Plymouth living in
London {Hackney} in 1871 {look for Asher Altman}.

We sadly do not know if Nathan ever went back home again to see his large
family in Ronsperg in the Klattauer Kreis, but we do know that after more than
sixty years in England he signed his will in Hebrew with his Jewish name. It
appears likely that Joachim returned to Ronsperg to marry and that Nathan
corresponded with him and sent this legal declaration back to the family in
English! That in itself must have caused a stir in provincial Ronsperg in 1801.

from Ronsperg to London and Plymouth and then, with the next generations,
Kingston, Jamaica and Montreal - I am sure Nathan and his sons were the cause
of much wonderment amongst friends and family he left behind in far away Bohemia.
Nathan too must often have dreamt of his childhood home and the delicious Rosoli
liqueur, produced by his father and uncle!

Celia Male [UK]

References: There are long Urls in Refs 1 and 3. Remember to copy and paste them
all into your browser.

1. I highly recommend this website about the fascinating life of Nathan Joseph
of Plymouth:

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Susser/biognathanjoseph.htm

There appear to have been descendants of one of the sons living in Montreal in
the late 1800s.

2.The ALTMANN family of Ronsperg, Klattauer Kreis: see

Soupis zidovskych rodin v Cechach z roku 1793, Vol V p.259-260 [ISBN 80-86712-21-4}

3. What is Rosoli? Answer: a liqueur made >from various fruits including cherries
and plums; read the German description in:

http://www.chefkoch.de/forum/2,2,104712,4,400,50/
Rosoli-was-ist-das-und-hat-jemand-ein-Rezept-dafuer.html

4. Search the SIG message archives with the key word "Ronsperg". You will find
a surprise in the JCR-UK message archive on 9 Aug 2002: ALTMAN >from Ronsperg
(Pobezovice), Bohemia to London UK. This points to the danger of restricting
our searches to our own geographic areas! I only just found it too ...


thanks for Icko responses #general

Carol W. Skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

The consensus is that Icko and the variant spellings (Itsco, Itzko) is the
Polish version of Yitzchak.
thanks everybody..

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen thanks for Icko responses #general

Carol W. Skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

The consensus is that Icko and the variant spellings (Itsco, Itzko) is the
Polish version of Yitzchak.
thanks everybody..

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods


Help with birth certificate #general

Susana Mamber Englender
 

Dear group, I have post my grandfather birth certificate. There are several
points I haven't understood; I hope you kindly can help me.

Part one I would like to know what means number 6

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5970


This is part two and here I need help with part 12 (even if the number is
not written), the second paragraph I gust it is something about my grand
grandparents getting married, but I am not sure.
The other thing I don't know the answer is the names typed in the end of
this page, right in the end after part 12.


http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5969

I would really appreciate any help.

Hag Sameah, and Shalom,
Susana Englander Mamber
sem005@gmail.com


searching:
MAMBER - MANBER,(Przemysl, Galicia)
KESSEL,Belz, Ostorow - LANG, Galicia - HIRSCHHORN, Galicia - KLUGMAN,
Poland, CUKIERMAN, ZUKERMAN, Da -wrowa Gornicza, Katowice - PERGERICHT,
Wolbrom, Katowice - LEMKOWITZ, Katowice


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help with birth certificate #general

Susana Mamber Englender
 

Dear group, I have post my grandfather birth certificate. There are several
points I haven't understood; I hope you kindly can help me.

Part one I would like to know what means number 6

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5970


This is part two and here I need help with part 12 (even if the number is
not written), the second paragraph I gust it is something about my grand
grandparents getting married, but I am not sure.
The other thing I don't know the answer is the names typed in the end of
this page, right in the end after part 12.


http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5969

I would really appreciate any help.

Hag Sameah, and Shalom,
Susana Englander Mamber
sem005@gmail.com


searching:
MAMBER - MANBER,(Przemysl, Galicia)
KESSEL,Belz, Ostorow - LANG, Galicia - HIRSCHHORN, Galicia - KLUGMAN,
Poland, CUKIERMAN, ZUKERMAN, Da -wrowa Gornicza, Katowice - PERGERICHT,
Wolbrom, Katowice - LEMKOWITZ, Katowice