There were 3 very large state psychiatric hospitals on Long Island: Pilgrim State
in Commack, Kings Park, and Central Islip. Central Islip is the farthest east.
The only one still operating (though greatly reduced in size) is Pilgrim. I know
that it has a cemetery. Many people >from NYC were brought to these hospitals. I
would suggest contacting the NYS Dept of Mental Health in Albany for assistance.
Debra Price
Plainview, NY

Dear Group,

Sam Schleman asked, "I am trying to obtain information about a woman
who was institutionalized somewhere in the period of 1915 - 1920 on
eastern Long Island... Would anyone know of a mental institution on
eastern Long Island that would have existed in 1915 to 1920 and which has
its own cemetery? Or can anyone tell me how to locate this information?"

I believe that this was either Kings Park State Hospital, which opened
in 1886 in Kings Park (which is in the town of Smithtown) or Central Islip
State Hospital, which opened in 1889 in the town of Islip. Both of these
closed in the last 5 to 10 years. The other state mental institutions on
Long Island, which are the still-open Pilgrim Psychiatric Center in West
Brentwood (opened in 1931) and Edgwood State Hospital (part of Pilgrim and
opened in the 1940's and closed in 1971) seem to have opened too late.

Even though medical records of adults in New York State need to be be
kept for seven years, many files of patients who were at these
institutions many decades ago are still kept at Pilgrim. Write to Medical
Records, Pilgrim Psychiatric Center 998 Crooked Hill Road, West Brentwood,
N.Y., 11717-1087, or call the Public Information Officer 631-761-3500. No
matter how many years have passed, there are limits on information that
they will disclose, depending on the relationship of the person making the
request to the deceased.

Ira Leviton
New York, N.Y.
searching for... LEWITAN (Rypin, Myszyniec, and Goworow, Pol.), SAPIRA
(Gac, Pol.), ELIAS/ELJASZ (Rypin, Pol.), NIEDOBITEK (Rypin, Pol.),
MIRELMAN (Rypin, Pol.), BLANK (Niedzwiada, Mala, Debica, and Ropczyce,
Pol.), REBHUN/REPHAN/RAPHAN/REPHEN (Rzemien, Mala, Debica, and Ropczyce,
Pol.), STRICK (Mielec and Ropczyce, Pol.), KORN (Gorlice and Ropczyce,
Pol.), and ATLAS/ATLASS (Frankfort, Ger. and Wien/Vienna, Austria), HERZOG
(Vienna/Wien, Austria); MARGOLIS (Odessa, Ukr.); LEIMAN/LYMAN (Krakow, Pol.)



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

Sam Schleman asked about a psychiatric hospital on Eastern Long Island. I don't
know the dates of operation, but St. Johnsland Psychiatric Hospital is in Kings
Park, LI, NY. It is now closed and there is a bicycle trail and park land around
the area. I don't know who has the records, but would check the federal census or
the NY State Census for the Kings Park area and you might find a listing for your
family member.

Gloria A. Bailey, Ph.D.
Everett, WA

There were 3 very large state psychiatric hospitals on Long Island: Pilgrim State
in Commack, Kings Park, and Central Islip. Central Islip is the farthest east.
The only one still operating (though greatly reduced in size) is Pilgrim. I know
that it has a cemetery. Many people >from NYC were brought to these hospitals. I
would suggest contacting the NYS Dept of Mental Health in Albany for assistance.
Debra Price
Plainview, NY

Dear Group,

Sam Schleman asked, "I am trying to obtain information about a woman
who was institutionalized somewhere in the period of 1915 - 1920 on
eastern Long Island... Would anyone know of a mental institution on
eastern Long Island that would have existed in 1915 to 1920 and which has
its own cemetery? Or can anyone tell me how to locate this information?"

I believe that this was either Kings Park State Hospital, which opened
in 1886 in Kings Park (which is in the town of Smithtown) or Central Islip
State Hospital, which opened in 1889 in the town of Islip. Both of these
closed in the last 5 to 10 years. The other state mental institutions on
Long Island, which are the still-open Pilgrim Psychiatric Center in West
Brentwood (opened in 1931) and Edgwood State Hospital (part of Pilgrim and
opened in the 1940's and closed in 1971) seem to have opened too late.

Even though medical records of adults in New York State need to be be
kept for seven years, many files of patients who were at these
institutions many decades ago are still kept at Pilgrim. Write to Medical
Records, Pilgrim Psychiatric Center 998 Crooked Hill Road, West Brentwood,
N.Y., 11717-1087, or call the Public Information Officer 631-761-3500. No
matter how many years have passed, there are limits on information that
they will disclose, depending on the relationship of the person making the
request to the deceased.

Ira Leviton
New York, N.Y.
searching for... LEWITAN (Rypin, Myszyniec, and Goworow, Pol.), SAPIRA
(Gac, Pol.), ELIAS/ELJASZ (Rypin, Pol.), NIEDOBITEK (Rypin, Pol.),
MIRELMAN (Rypin, Pol.), BLANK (Niedzwiada, Mala, Debica, and Ropczyce,
Pol.), REBHUN/REPHAN/RAPHAN/REPHEN (Rzemien, Mala, Debica, and Ropczyce,
Pol.), STRICK (Mielec and Ropczyce, Pol.), KORN (Gorlice and Ropczyce,
Pol.), and ATLAS/ATLASS (Frankfort, Ger. and Wien/Vienna, Austria), HERZOG
(Vienna/Wien, Austria); MARGOLIS (Odessa, Ukr.); LEIMAN/LYMAN (Krakow, Pol.)



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

Sam Schleman asked about a psychiatric hospital on Eastern Long Island. I don't
know the dates of operation, but St. Johnsland Psychiatric Hospital is in Kings
Park, LI, NY. It is now closed and there is a bicycle trail and park land around
the area. I don't know who has the records, but would check the federal census or
the NY State Census for the Kings Park area and you might find a listing for your
family member.

Gloria A. Bailey, Ph.D.
Everett, WA

Have you checked the All Romanian Database
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/? There is a listing for Sura MILGRAM
who died in 1906 listed in the Kishinev Death records. I suspect that this is the
same person that you are looking for. It is possible that you might be able to
find births, marriages, divorces or other deaths for your family members in the
database.

There are now over 50,000 records that have been transliterated >from the records
that were filmed by the Family History Library. We are working to add more records
to the database.

If you are able to help transliterate Russian or Hebrew script and would like to
help with this project please contact me at robertw252@aol.com.

You can order the films >from the Family History Library if you would like to do
your own searching of the records but many of them are very hard to read.

Bob Wascou
Kishinev Vital Records Project Coordinator

Marilyn F <mrl516@bellsouth.net> wrote:

In response to the question, posed yesterday by Marilyn Feingold, about how to
locate burial records for Kishinev, I would like to remind everyone to check the
All-Romanian Database of JewishGen for such data. Our database now contains
over 190,000 records >from Romania and Moldova. Included is the Kishinev
Database, which holds over 50,000 records for the former Bessarabia ( now
Moldova) , and where the record for the person about whom she was inquiring can be
found. This is an ongoing project, with stll more records to be entered. If you
are interested in helping, and can translate Russian and/or Hebrew, please
contact the Project Coordinator, Robert Wascou at: < RobertW252@aol.com >
More volunteers are always welcome, to help the project to move along.

The many databases of JewishGen are an invaluable resource which should always be
searched first!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG

Have you checked the All Romanian Database
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/? There is a listing for Sura MILGRAM
who died in 1906 listed in the Kishinev Death records. I suspect that this is the
same person that you are looking for. It is possible that you might be able to
find births, marriages, divorces or other deaths for your family members in the
database.

There are now over 50,000 records that have been transliterated >from the records
that were filmed by the Family History Library. We are working to add more records
to the database.

If you are able to help transliterate Russian or Hebrew script and would like to
help with this project please contact me at robertw252@aol.com.

You can order the films >from the Family History Library if you would like to do
your own searching of the records but many of them are very hard to read.

Bob Wascou
Kishinev Vital Records Project Coordinator

Marilyn F <mrl516@bellsouth.net> wrote:

In response to the question, posed yesterday by Marilyn Feingold, about how to
locate burial records for Kishinev, I would like to remind everyone to check the
All-Romanian Database of JewishGen for such data. Our database now contains
over 190,000 records >from Romania and Moldova. Included is the Kishinev
Database, which holds over 50,000 records for the former Bessarabia ( now
Moldova) , and where the record for the person about whom she was inquiring can be
found. This is an ongoing project, with stll more records to be entered. If you
are interested in helping, and can translate Russian and/or Hebrew, please
contact the Project Coordinator, Robert Wascou at: < RobertW252@aol.com >
More volunteers are always welcome, to help the project to move along.

The many databases of JewishGen are an invaluable resource which should always be
searched first!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG

Steve wrote:

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

My comment:

There are various systems of transliterating cyrillic letters into Latin
characters. In the traditional transliteration system used for German libraries
and by German academics in Slavonic languages this apostrophy stands for the
so-called "mjagkij znak", a cyrillic letter which signals that the preceding
letter, in this case the "l" is palatalized, i.e. has more of a an ee-quality than
of a oo-qualitiy. This letter by itself (which looks like a Latin "b") cannot be
pronounced alone but only modifies the pronounciation of the preceding letter. The
Russian word "mel'nik" (translation: miller) contains this letter as fourth
letter. Usually borrowed words >from Western languages get this "lb", such as
"internacional'nyj" (international). The occurrence of this apostrophy to
represent this letter seems to depend on how precise the rendering of the cyrillic
word is supposed to be, only in very exact and academic usage the apostrophy would
occur. But the letter does not only occur together with "l", it also occurs with
other letters, such as the the letter "d", as in dozd' (rain) and in all verb
infinitives: pisat' (write).

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany

Steve wrote:

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

My comment:

There are various systems of transliterating cyrillic letters into Latin
characters. In the traditional transliteration system used for German libraries
and by German academics in Slavonic languages this apostrophy stands for the
so-called "mjagkij znak", a cyrillic letter which signals that the preceding
letter, in this case the "l" is palatalized, i.e. has more of a an ee-quality than
of a oo-qualitiy. This letter by itself (which looks like a Latin "b") cannot be
pronounced alone but only modifies the pronounciation of the preceding letter. The
Russian word "mel'nik" (translation: miller) contains this letter as fourth
letter. Usually borrowed words >from Western languages get this "lb", such as
"internacional'nyj" (international). The occurrence of this apostrophy to
represent this letter seems to depend on how precise the rendering of the cyrillic
word is supposed to be, only in very exact and academic usage the apostrophy would
occur. But the letter does not only occur together with "l", it also occurs with
other letters, such as the the letter "d", as in dozd' (rain) and in all verb
infinitives: pisat' (write).

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany

Thank you. I guess I was really asking if the certificate requested the name of
the town, or just the country. >from the replies I've gotten, it seems as though
it requested the town name, but the informant didn't always provide the
information.

Mimi Katz, Chicago

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

Best, Steve Orlen

The Russian word is spelled with a character called "soft sign" after the L. This
sign palatalizes the L. English has no standard way to transliterate the soft
sign, nor would most English speakers know what to do with it. (Not that it is
difficult. Try pressing the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth
while saying "L".) Some people indicate it by the apostrophe, some don't bother.
If you are asking if "Melnik" and "Mel'nik" are one name or two, the answer is
that they are one.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.

Thank you. I guess I was really asking if the certificate requested the name of
the town, or just the country. >from the replies I've gotten, it seems as though
it requested the town name, but the informant didn't always provide the
information.

Mimi Katz, Chicago

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

Best, Steve Orlen

The Russian word is spelled with a character called "soft sign" after the L. This
sign palatalizes the L. English has no standard way to transliterate the soft
sign, nor would most English speakers know what to do with it. (Not that it is
difficult. Try pressing the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth
while saying "L".) Some people indicate it by the apostrophe, some don't bother.
If you are asking if "Melnik" and "Mel'nik" are one name or two, the answer is
that they are one.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.

Re the discussion of French words in Viennese - I think it most unlikely that the
Viennese would adopt the words of an unpopular enemy in the early 1800s as
suggested by Robert Fraser.

I have the correspondence of my gt-gt-gt uncle Leon BIACH [Pressburg 1806 -
Vienna 1868] and his fiancee, and soon-to-be wife, Minna DIAMANT [incidentally a
relative of the genealogist Paul DIAMANT who was discussed in previous postings
and also of Heinrich HEINE and Theodor HERZL].

Minna [born, Pressburg 1815 - died, Vienna 1840, after giving birth to three
daughters] was a very precocious child and could write in fluent French and
Italian when she was a teenager.

Both Leon and Minna are buried in Wahringerfriedhof, Vienna, where their graves
can still be seen today.

The letters, starting in the early 1830s, are peppered with words such as:

ennuiren .... being bored
excusieren ... to make excuses
Visite machen ...to visit
Excuse ... an apology
Frappiert ... to fall out
presence d'esprit ... presence of mind

We can all think of others, I am sure.

A young woman would not have such a free and easy way with French-derived words
had they not been established in common usage for many, many years.

Hence, I am quite sure that Phil Lederer's father is correct in his statement
that French words had been used in Austrian Court circles many years before
Napoleon.

Here is some bona-fide historical back-up for French-Viennese philology which
I based on my own family history:

http://m.wjms.jordan.k12.ut.us/hapsburg/maria%20theresa

Francis Stephen I - born in Nancy, France was the son of Leopold of Lorraine &
Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans - married Maria Theresia, daughter of Habsburg
emperor Charles VI, 12 February 1736 ... They had 16 children together including:
Joseph II, Leopold II & Marie Antoinette.

In 1745, Francis Stephen I was elected to the Imperial throne. After Maria
Theresia inherited the lands of Habsburg, she made Francis co-regent..... During
his reign he helped improve French culture and language at the Viennese court.

Hence, French probably became well-established in this era, namely 70 years before
Minna DIAMANT was born and also some 25 years before the birth of Napoleon
Bonaparte.

Celia Male [UK]

Re the discussion of French words in Viennese - I think it most unlikely that the
Viennese would adopt the words of an unpopular enemy in the early 1800s as
suggested by Robert Fraser.

I have the correspondence of my gt-gt-gt uncle Leon BIACH [Pressburg 1806 -
Vienna 1868] and his fiancee, and soon-to-be wife, Minna DIAMANT [incidentally a
relative of the genealogist Paul DIAMANT who was discussed in previous postings
and also of Heinrich HEINE and Theodor HERZL].

Minna [born, Pressburg 1815 - died, Vienna 1840, after giving birth to three
daughters] was a very precocious child and could write in fluent French and
Italian when she was a teenager.

Both Leon and Minna are buried in Wahringerfriedhof, Vienna, where their graves
can still be seen today.

The letters, starting in the early 1830s, are peppered with words such as:

ennuiren .... being bored
excusieren ... to make excuses
Visite machen ...to visit
Excuse ... an apology
Frappiert ... to fall out
presence d'esprit ... presence of mind

We can all think of others, I am sure.

A young woman would not have such a free and easy way with French-derived words
had they not been established in common usage for many, many years.

Hence, I am quite sure that Phil Lederer's father is correct in his statement
that French words had been used in Austrian Court circles many years before
Napoleon.

Here is some bona-fide historical back-up for French-Viennese philology which
I based on my own family history:

http://m.wjms.jordan.k12.ut.us/hapsburg/maria%20theresa

Francis Stephen I - born in Nancy, France was the son of Leopold of Lorraine &
Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans - married Maria Theresia, daughter of Habsburg
emperor Charles VI, 12 February 1736 ... They had 16 children together including:
Joseph II, Leopold II & Marie Antoinette.

In 1745, Francis Stephen I was elected to the Imperial throne. After Maria
Theresia inherited the lands of Habsburg, she made Francis co-regent..... During
his reign he helped improve French culture and language at the Viennese court.

Hence, French probably became well-established in this era, namely 70 years before
Minna DIAMANT was born and also some 25 years before the birth of Napoleon
Bonaparte.

Celia Male [UK]

Dear All,

This is the first time I have posted anything so I hope I am doing it
correctly!

I started to research my family tree in October, and have managed to
find out an amazing amount of information. However, amongst my research
I have found that my father's first cousin had an illegitimate child.
The child was born in 1925 and after WW2 ended this "child" made contact
with my father via the Jewish Refugees Committee. I have correspondence
which belonged to my father between the two of them. It has also come to
light that this "child" herself had a child who was looking for members
of her family as recently as 1994. I have tried everything I can to
track both women and I have come up against a brick wall. I am hoping
that maybe someone somewhere can help.

My father's cousin's name was Max Mendel WASSERMANN born July 1895 in
Radymno Poland. He moved to Germany - Metz / Berlin / Leipzig and
Hamburg.
His illegitimate daughter was born April 1925 and her name was Ingeborg
POROMBKA. I don't know where she was born whether in Germany or Austria,
but the correspondence relates to Bregenz and Innsbruck.
Ingeborg POROMBKA had a daughter called Ingeborg PFLEGER. She was

looking for members of the WASSERMANN family in 1994 via the Jewish
committee in London. Correspondence has been passed to me relating to
her search. She used to work for Austrian Television as a freelance
journalist. She must be in her late 40's early 50's.

Does anyone know of her? or heard of her? I have tried the telephone
directories and she is not listed.

Thank you so much.

Chantal Auerbach

Dear All,

This is the first time I have posted anything so I hope I am doing it
correctly!

I started to research my family tree in October, and have managed to
find out an amazing amount of information. However, amongst my research
I have found that my father's first cousin had an illegitimate child.
The child was born in 1925 and after WW2 ended this "child" made contact
with my father via the Jewish Refugees Committee. I have correspondence
which belonged to my father between the two of them. It has also come to
light that this "child" herself had a child who was looking for members
of her family as recently as 1994. I have tried everything I can to
track both women and I have come up against a brick wall. I am hoping
that maybe someone somewhere can help.

My father's cousin's name was Max Mendel WASSERMANN born July 1895 in
Radymno Poland. He moved to Germany - Metz / Berlin / Leipzig and
Hamburg.
His illegitimate daughter was born April 1925 and her name was Ingeborg
POROMBKA. I don't know where she was born whether in Germany or Austria,
but the correspondence relates to Bregenz and Innsbruck.
Ingeborg POROMBKA had a daughter called Ingeborg PFLEGER. She was

looking for members of the WASSERMANN family in 1994 via the Jewish
committee in London. Correspondence has been passed to me relating to
her search. She used to work for Austrian Television as a freelance
journalist. She must be in her late 40's early 50's.

Does anyone know of her? or heard of her? I have tried the telephone
directories and she is not listed.

Thank you so much.

Chantal Auerbach