Date   

Re: Kishinev Cemetary Lookup #general

Bob Wascou <robertw252@...>
 

Have you checked the All Romanian Database
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/? There is a listing for Sura MILGRAM
who died in 1906 listed in the Kishinev Death records. I suspect that this is the
same person that you are looking for. It is possible that you might be able to
find births, marriages, divorces or other deaths for your family members in the
database.

There are now over 50,000 records that have been transliterated >from the records
that were filmed by the Family History Library. We are working to add more records
to the database.

If you are able to help transliterate Russian or Hebrew script and would like to
help with this project please contact me at robertw252@aol.com.

You can order the films >from the Family History Library if you would like to do
your own searching of the records but many of them are very hard to read.

Bob Wascou
Kishinev Vital Records Project Coordinator

Marilyn F <mrl516@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Suri Milgrom, may be buried in Kishinev. I had heard that Suri Milgrom lived
with Tzyril and her husband, Bencene. How do I find someone buried in Kishinev
around 1906? Thanks for your help.


Re: Death records for Kishinev! #general

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

In response to the question, posed yesterday by Marilyn Feingold, about how to
locate burial records for Kishinev, I would like to remind everyone to check the
All-Romanian Database of JewishGen for such data. Our database now contains
over 190,000 records >from Romania and Moldova. Included is the Kishinev
Database, which holds over 50,000 records for the former Bessarabia ( now
Moldova) , and where the record for the person about whom she was inquiring can be
found. This is an ongoing project, with stll more records to be entered. If you
are interested in helping, and can translate Russian and/or Hebrew, please
contact the Project Coordinator, Robert Wascou at: < RobertW252@aol.com >
More volunteers are always welcome, to help the project to move along.

The many databases of JewishGen are an invaluable resource which should always be
searched first!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Kishinev Cemetary Lookup #general

Bob Wascou <robertw252@...>
 

Have you checked the All Romanian Database
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/? There is a listing for Sura MILGRAM
who died in 1906 listed in the Kishinev Death records. I suspect that this is the
same person that you are looking for. It is possible that you might be able to
find births, marriages, divorces or other deaths for your family members in the
database.

There are now over 50,000 records that have been transliterated >from the records
that were filmed by the Family History Library. We are working to add more records
to the database.

If you are able to help transliterate Russian or Hebrew script and would like to
help with this project please contact me at robertw252@aol.com.

You can order the films >from the Family History Library if you would like to do
your own searching of the records but many of them are very hard to read.

Bob Wascou
Kishinev Vital Records Project Coordinator

Marilyn F <mrl516@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Suri Milgrom, may be buried in Kishinev. I had heard that Suri Milgrom lived
with Tzyril and her husband, Bencene. How do I find someone buried in Kishinev
around 1906? Thanks for your help.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Death records for Kishinev! #general

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

In response to the question, posed yesterday by Marilyn Feingold, about how to
locate burial records for Kishinev, I would like to remind everyone to check the
All-Romanian Database of JewishGen for such data. Our database now contains
over 190,000 records >from Romania and Moldova. Included is the Kishinev
Database, which holds over 50,000 records for the former Bessarabia ( now
Moldova) , and where the record for the person about whom she was inquiring can be
found. This is an ongoing project, with stll more records to be entered. If you
are interested in helping, and can translate Russian and/or Hebrew, please
contact the Project Coordinator, Robert Wascou at: < RobertW252@aol.com >
More volunteers are always welcome, to help the project to move along.

The many databases of JewishGen are an invaluable resource which should always be
searched first!

Rosanne Leeson
Co-Coordinator
ROM-SIG


MELNIK vs. MEL'NIK #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

Steve wrote:

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

My comment:

There are various systems of transliterating cyrillic letters into Latin
characters. In the traditional transliteration system used for German libraries
and by German academics in Slavonic languages this apostrophy stands for the
so-called "mjagkij znak", a cyrillic letter which signals that the preceding
letter, in this case the "l" is palatalized, i.e. has more of a an ee-quality than
of a oo-qualitiy. This letter by itself (which looks like a Latin "b") cannot be
pronounced alone but only modifies the pronounciation of the preceding letter. The
Russian word "mel'nik" (translation: miller) contains this letter as fourth
letter. Usually borrowed words >from Western languages get this "lb", such as
"internacional'nyj" (international). The occurrence of this apostrophy to
represent this letter seems to depend on how precise the rendering of the cyrillic
word is supposed to be, only in very exact and academic usage the apostrophy would
occur. But the letter does not only occur together with "l", it also occurs with
other letters, such as the the letter "d", as in dozd' (rain) and in all verb
infinitives: pisat' (write).

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen MELNIK vs. MEL'NIK #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

Steve wrote:

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

My comment:

There are various systems of transliterating cyrillic letters into Latin
characters. In the traditional transliteration system used for German libraries
and by German academics in Slavonic languages this apostrophy stands for the
so-called "mjagkij znak", a cyrillic letter which signals that the preceding
letter, in this case the "l" is palatalized, i.e. has more of a an ee-quality than
of a oo-qualitiy. This letter by itself (which looks like a Latin "b") cannot be
pronounced alone but only modifies the pronounciation of the preceding letter. The
Russian word "mel'nik" (translation: miller) contains this letter as fourth
letter. Usually borrowed words >from Western languages get this "lb", such as
"internacional'nyj" (international). The occurrence of this apostrophy to
represent this letter seems to depend on how precise the rendering of the cyrillic
word is supposed to be, only in very exact and academic usage the apostrophy would
occur. But the letter does not only occur together with "l", it also occurs with
other letters, such as the the letter "d", as in dozd' (rain) and in all verb
infinitives: pisat' (write).

I hope that helps

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany


Re: Contents of CA death cert 1946 #general

Mimi Katz <GeveretKatz@...>
 

Thank you. I guess I was really asking if the certificate requested the name of
the town, or just the country. >from the replies I've gotten, it seems as though
it requested the town name, but the informant didn't always provide the
information.

Mimi Katz, Chicago

A California death certificate will list this information *only* if the
informant knew it....
Stephanie Weiner


Re: Two versions of surname MELNIK #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

Best, Steve Orlen
The Russian word is spelled with a character called "soft sign" after the L. This
sign palatalizes the L. English has no standard way to transliterate the soft
sign, nor would most English speakers know what to do with it. (Not that it is
difficult. Try pressing the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth
while saying "L".) Some people indicate it by the apostrophe, some don't bother.
If you are asking if "Melnik" and "Mel'nik" are one name or two, the answer is
that they are one.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Contents of CA death cert 1946 #general

Mimi Katz <GeveretKatz@...>
 

Thank you. I guess I was really asking if the certificate requested the name of
the town, or just the country. >from the replies I've gotten, it seems as though
it requested the town name, but the informant didn't always provide the
information.

Mimi Katz, Chicago

A California death certificate will list this information *only* if the
informant knew it....
Stephanie Weiner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Two versions of surname MELNIK #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

Whenever I see documents on-line >from Minsk Gubernya that include the surname
MELNIK, I find two spellings, the former and MEL'NIK. Does anyone know what the
apostrophized version indicates?

Best, Steve Orlen
The Russian word is spelled with a character called "soft sign" after the L. This
sign palatalizes the L. English has no standard way to transliterate the soft
sign, nor would most English speakers know what to do with it. (Not that it is
difficult. Try pressing the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth
while saying "L".) Some people indicate it by the apostrophe, some don't bother.
If you are asking if "Melnik" and "Mel'nik" are one name or two, the answer is
that they are one.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: French words in Viennese #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Re the discussion of French words in Viennese - I think it most unlikely that the
Viennese would adopt the words of an unpopular enemy in the early 1800s as
suggested by Robert Fraser.

I have the correspondence of my gt-gt-gt uncle Leon BIACH [Pressburg 1806 -
Vienna 1868] and his fiancee, and soon-to-be wife, Minna DIAMANT [incidentally a
relative of the genealogist Paul DIAMANT who was discussed in previous postings
and also of Heinrich HEINE and Theodor HERZL].

Minna [born, Pressburg 1815 - died, Vienna 1840, after giving birth to three
daughters] was a very precocious child and could write in fluent French and
Italian when she was a teenager.

Both Leon and Minna are buried in Wahringerfriedhof, Vienna, where their graves
can still be seen today.

The letters, starting in the early 1830s, are peppered with words such as:

ennuiren .... being bored
excusieren ... to make excuses
Visite machen ...to visit
Excuse ... an apology
Frappiert ... to fall out
presence d'esprit ... presence of mind

We can all think of others, I am sure.

A young woman would not have such a free and easy way with French-derived words
had they not been established in common usage for many, many years.

Hence, I am quite sure that Phil Lederer's father is correct in his statement
that French words had been used in Austrian Court circles many years before
Napoleon.

Here is some bona-fide historical back-up for French-Viennese philology which
I based on my own family history:

http://m.wjms.jordan.k12.ut.us/hapsburg/maria%20theresa

Francis Stephen I - born in Nancy, France was the son of Leopold of Lorraine &
Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans - married Maria Theresia, daughter of Habsburg
emperor Charles VI, 12 February 1736 ... They had 16 children together including:
Joseph II, Leopold II & Marie Antoinette.

In 1745, Francis Stephen I was elected to the Imperial throne. After Maria
Theresia inherited the lands of Habsburg, she made Francis co-regent..... During
his reign he helped improve French culture and language at the Viennese court.

Hence, French probably became well-established in this era, namely 70 years before
Minna DIAMANT was born and also some 25 years before the birth of Napoleon
Bonaparte.

Celia Male [UK]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: French words in Viennese #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Re the discussion of French words in Viennese - I think it most unlikely that the
Viennese would adopt the words of an unpopular enemy in the early 1800s as
suggested by Robert Fraser.

I have the correspondence of my gt-gt-gt uncle Leon BIACH [Pressburg 1806 -
Vienna 1868] and his fiancee, and soon-to-be wife, Minna DIAMANT [incidentally a
relative of the genealogist Paul DIAMANT who was discussed in previous postings
and also of Heinrich HEINE and Theodor HERZL].

Minna [born, Pressburg 1815 - died, Vienna 1840, after giving birth to three
daughters] was a very precocious child and could write in fluent French and
Italian when she was a teenager.

Both Leon and Minna are buried in Wahringerfriedhof, Vienna, where their graves
can still be seen today.

The letters, starting in the early 1830s, are peppered with words such as:

ennuiren .... being bored
excusieren ... to make excuses
Visite machen ...to visit
Excuse ... an apology
Frappiert ... to fall out
presence d'esprit ... presence of mind

We can all think of others, I am sure.

A young woman would not have such a free and easy way with French-derived words
had they not been established in common usage for many, many years.

Hence, I am quite sure that Phil Lederer's father is correct in his statement
that French words had been used in Austrian Court circles many years before
Napoleon.

Here is some bona-fide historical back-up for French-Viennese philology which
I based on my own family history:

http://m.wjms.jordan.k12.ut.us/hapsburg/maria%20theresa

Francis Stephen I - born in Nancy, France was the son of Leopold of Lorraine &
Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans - married Maria Theresia, daughter of Habsburg
emperor Charles VI, 12 February 1736 ... They had 16 children together including:
Joseph II, Leopold II & Marie Antoinette.

In 1745, Francis Stephen I was elected to the Imperial throne. After Maria
Theresia inherited the lands of Habsburg, she made Francis co-regent..... During
his reign he helped improve French culture and language at the Viennese court.

Hence, French probably became well-established in this era, namely 70 years before
Minna DIAMANT was born and also some 25 years before the birth of Napoleon
Bonaparte.

Celia Male [UK]


Searching for Ingeborg PFLEGER / POROMBKA #austria-czech

Chantal Auerbach <chantal.auerbach@...>
 

Dear All,

This is the first time I have posted anything so I hope I am doing it
correctly!

I started to research my family tree in October, and have managed to
find out an amazing amount of information. However, amongst my research
I have found that my father's first cousin had an illegitimate child.
The child was born in 1925 and after WW2 ended this "child" made contact
with my father via the Jewish Refugees Committee. I have correspondence
which belonged to my father between the two of them. It has also come to
light that this "child" herself had a child who was looking for members
of her family as recently as 1994. I have tried everything I can to
track both women and I have come up against a brick wall. I am hoping
that maybe someone somewhere can help.

My father's cousin's name was Max Mendel WASSERMANN born July 1895 in
Radymno Poland. He moved to Germany - Metz / Berlin / Leipzig and
Hamburg.
His illegitimate daughter was born April 1925 and her name was Ingeborg
POROMBKA. I don't know where she was born whether in Germany or Austria,
but the correspondence relates to Bregenz and Innsbruck.
Ingeborg POROMBKA had a daughter called Ingeborg PFLEGER. She was

looking for members of the WASSERMANN family in 1994 via the Jewish
committee in London. Correspondence has been passed to me relating to
her search. She used to work for Austrian Television as a freelance
journalist. She must be in her late 40's early 50's.

Does anyone know of her? or heard of her? I have tried the telephone
directories and she is not listed.

Thank you so much.

Chantal Auerbach


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Searching for Ingeborg PFLEGER / POROMBKA #austria-czech

Chantal Auerbach <chantal.auerbach@...>
 

Dear All,

This is the first time I have posted anything so I hope I am doing it
correctly!

I started to research my family tree in October, and have managed to
find out an amazing amount of information. However, amongst my research
I have found that my father's first cousin had an illegitimate child.
The child was born in 1925 and after WW2 ended this "child" made contact
with my father via the Jewish Refugees Committee. I have correspondence
which belonged to my father between the two of them. It has also come to
light that this "child" herself had a child who was looking for members
of her family as recently as 1994. I have tried everything I can to
track both women and I have come up against a brick wall. I am hoping
that maybe someone somewhere can help.

My father's cousin's name was Max Mendel WASSERMANN born July 1895 in
Radymno Poland. He moved to Germany - Metz / Berlin / Leipzig and
Hamburg.
His illegitimate daughter was born April 1925 and her name was Ingeborg
POROMBKA. I don't know where she was born whether in Germany or Austria,
but the correspondence relates to Bregenz and Innsbruck.
Ingeborg POROMBKA had a daughter called Ingeborg PFLEGER. She was

looking for members of the WASSERMANN family in 1994 via the Jewish
committee in London. Correspondence has been passed to me relating to
her search. She used to work for Austrian Television as a freelance
journalist. She must be in her late 40's early 50's.

Does anyone know of her? or heard of her? I have tried the telephone
directories and she is not listed.

Thank you so much.

Chantal Auerbach


Seeking Prof. Louis Oppenheimer in the Netherlands #germany

Red McVittie <red@...>
 

Several years ago I corresponded with Louis Oppenheimer of the Netherlands
at this address: op_oppenheimer@macmail.psy.uva.nl. There is an underline
between op and oppenheimer, thus: op_oppenheimer. (The rest of the
underlining is a function of the copy and paste command). My recent mail to
him bounced. If anyone has a current address for Prof. Oppenheimer, please
contact me privately.

Renate McVittie, Seattle. red@mcvittie.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Nobody by this name or with this email address is subscribed
to any JewishGen SIG mailing list.


German SIG #Germany Seeking Prof. Louis Oppenheimer in the Netherlands #germany

Red McVittie <red@...>
 

Several years ago I corresponded with Louis Oppenheimer of the Netherlands
at this address: op_oppenheimer@macmail.psy.uva.nl. There is an underline
between op and oppenheimer, thus: op_oppenheimer. (The rest of the
underlining is a function of the copy and paste command). My recent mail to
him bounced. If anyone has a current address for Prof. Oppenheimer, please
contact me privately.

Renate McVittie, Seattle. red@mcvittie.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Nobody by this name or with this email address is subscribed
to any JewishGen SIG mailing list.


Re: Jewish vital registers in Baden-Wuerttemberg #germany

Dottie Miller
 

MODERATOR NOTE: This discussion is not of interest to the entire
membership and should be conducted off-list. Periodic brief summaries
can be posted here. We need to hear immediately >from a volunteer
"discussion leader" for the proposed **** Family Register Project ****
Dottie Miller - will you accept this job? I regret that I am not able to
do it myself. MOD 1

The following is an excellent review of the Jewish vital registers in
Baden-Wuerttemberg sent to me by a well-recommended genealogist in
Germany, with his permission to share it with you in this forum.

Dottie Miller, San Antonio, TX USA

Oberdischingen, 10th March 2005

Thank you for your note. I remember the visit with Mr. Allan Hirsh to
the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart and our conversation with Ms. Bolsinger,
the director of the photo department of this institution.

The following facts ought to me mentioned:

1. These microfilms were made in 1944 and 1945 or Jewish vital registers
which had been centralized in Rathsfeld Castle, Thuringia, and were lost
soon after. Microfilming was at that time an undeveloped technology, and
the films were taken with an amateur camera and are thus of poor
quality. Reproductions were made in the 1950s (on photo paper) and given
to the Jewish community centers in Stuttgart and Karlsruhe. In the
1990s, the old little film rolls were again used to make reproductions
which are now at the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart.

2. When these films were taken, the camera operator first filmed all the
left pages of a book and then all the right pages, so an entry spreading
over a whole double-side space is on two different rolls of microfilm.
After reproductions >from the films were made, these pertinent pages were
joined and bound into volumes. There are now two possibilities of reproduction:

a. Buy copies of the microfilms >from the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart at
a relatively low price. In this case, the buyer has to make
reproductions himself and organize them in the correct sequence of pages
- an ugly job which requires a lot of skill.

b. Buy paper reproductions (xerox copies) >from the reproductions held at
the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart. This would be more expensive, but would
yield the pages as they followed each others in the original book.

3. The term "Stuttgart Jewish family registers" is misleading. The
family register of the Jews in the city of Stuttgart has always been at
the Stuttgart Vital Registration Office (Standesamt) and is still there.
It has not been microfilmed and is not included in the discussion below.

4. The following Jewish vital registers are being discussed here:

a. Kingdom of Wuerttemberg.

Jewish vital registers were required >from 1828 onwards until 1875 (state
vital registration started in 1876). Many writers added up earlier
entries, and in some towns previously under Austrian sovereignty, the
books start in 1784. Family registers were to be established in 1828 for
all families then in existence, so if old people were alive, one can
sometimes get data back to the 1750 and even 1740s. These family
registers were continued into the 1930s but are not available for all
communities after 1876.

b. Grandduchy of Baden.

Jewish vital registers were required >from 1811 onwards until 1869 (state
vital registration started in 1870). Second writings of all these books
are being preserved in the state archives of Karlsruhe (for northern
Baden) and Freiburg (for southern Baden). About two thirds of these
books (court districts Achern to Offenburg) are available on microfilm.

These films were made since the 1960s >from the original paper copies in
the state archives and are thus much better than the films of 1944 and
1945. If copies of such books are needed, it is adviced to use these
recent films, rather than those made in 1944 and 1945.

Family registers were not required in the Grandduchy of Baden.

c. Principality, later Prussian province of Hohenzollern.

A few large Jewish communities were here whose registers have only
survived on those old microfilms. However, compilations of the families
for Hechingen and Dettensee have been recently made. There is not much
need to struggle with the contents of the original registers any longer,
except for a few other towns whose Jewish families may get reconstructed
some day, too.

5. Methods of evaluation.

I am currently not aware what the term digitalization, as used by Ms.
Miller, actually means. It this just typing the contents of the vital
registers into the computer, or does it mean to store pictorials of
these pages and make them available through the internet? The latter
would require permission by the archives administration which owns the
copyright (the books prior to 1876 or 1870, respectively, were written
upon state laws and have never been Jewish property, as far as I know).

Only a small part of the contemporary people can read the old script
used in these books, and even here in Germany, it is difficult to find
someone who can transcribe them. Many words and numbers are hard to read
or illegible. So just putting these pages into the internet would not be
of great help to the researchers worldwide.

Did anyone ever calculate how many hours are needed to transcribe all
those many pages?

6. Additional sources.

There are many additional sources which may add up to the contents of
these books. I am mainly thinking about probate record which are
available for the 1828 to 1899 period in Wuerttemberg (Jews were now
required to have their probate records made by officials before 1828),
and >from 1865 onwards for most court districts in Baden. Many details
about the families are included in emigration records and other types of
files. In addition, the 1828 lists of the adoption of Jewish family
names in Wuerttemberg and the entries in the local citizenship
registers yield data which are not included, or not legible in the famiy
registers. (By the way, I started to compile these 1828 data for all
Jewish communities in Wuerttemberg in order to publish the lists plus
biographical data for all Jews then alive).

So, as a summary, just transcribing the Jewish vital registers will be
of great help, but still leave many questions open which can be answered
by the use of other sources.

7. The best approach.

The best approach, to my opinion, is to form workgroups who compile
Jewish family books for one community by another, starting with Achern
and ending with Zwingenberg. Each such workgroup can dive deeply into
the local sources, including tombstones, and thus produce better results
than could be achieved by just the evaluation of one single source, or
by a researcher who just copes with one family.

There are still many people in Germany who are interested in the history
and fates of the Jews, and I think one can find retired people anywhere
who are willing to undertake such a project, and who are able to read
the old script or learn it. The largest problem for us Germans are the
cemetery inscriptions.

Such a book of Jewish families for every town would be a very good
argument against those who still deny the existence, or the extension of
the Shoah. A project of this type might even join (Christian) German and
Jewish researchers and resume conversation of groups who have not talked
with each others for two generations. I even imagine state or community
funds can be raised here if a Jewish organization is behind the whole
thing.

This is all for the moment. Please tell my greetings to Mr. Allan Hirsh.
I spent a week with him, visiting the archives of his ancestral towns
and the dedication of a memorial sign for the Jews in Bonfeld. I think
we were both impressed of these days.

[Contact Dottie Miller <dottiem@samcrc.com> for more information.]


German SIG #Germany Re: Jewish vital registers in Baden-Wuerttemberg #germany

Dottie Miller
 

MODERATOR NOTE: This discussion is not of interest to the entire
membership and should be conducted off-list. Periodic brief summaries
can be posted here. We need to hear immediately >from a volunteer
"discussion leader" for the proposed **** Family Register Project ****
Dottie Miller - will you accept this job? I regret that I am not able to
do it myself. MOD 1

The following is an excellent review of the Jewish vital registers in
Baden-Wuerttemberg sent to me by a well-recommended genealogist in
Germany, with his permission to share it with you in this forum.

Dottie Miller, San Antonio, TX USA

Oberdischingen, 10th March 2005

Thank you for your note. I remember the visit with Mr. Allan Hirsh to
the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart and our conversation with Ms. Bolsinger,
the director of the photo department of this institution.

The following facts ought to me mentioned:

1. These microfilms were made in 1944 and 1945 or Jewish vital registers
which had been centralized in Rathsfeld Castle, Thuringia, and were lost
soon after. Microfilming was at that time an undeveloped technology, and
the films were taken with an amateur camera and are thus of poor
quality. Reproductions were made in the 1950s (on photo paper) and given
to the Jewish community centers in Stuttgart and Karlsruhe. In the
1990s, the old little film rolls were again used to make reproductions
which are now at the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart.

2. When these films were taken, the camera operator first filmed all the
left pages of a book and then all the right pages, so an entry spreading
over a whole double-side space is on two different rolls of microfilm.
After reproductions >from the films were made, these pertinent pages were
joined and bound into volumes. There are now two possibilities of reproduction:

a. Buy copies of the microfilms >from the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart at
a relatively low price. In this case, the buyer has to make
reproductions himself and organize them in the correct sequence of pages
- an ugly job which requires a lot of skill.

b. Buy paper reproductions (xerox copies) >from the reproductions held at
the Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart. This would be more expensive, but would
yield the pages as they followed each others in the original book.

3. The term "Stuttgart Jewish family registers" is misleading. The
family register of the Jews in the city of Stuttgart has always been at
the Stuttgart Vital Registration Office (Standesamt) and is still there.
It has not been microfilmed and is not included in the discussion below.

4. The following Jewish vital registers are being discussed here:

a. Kingdom of Wuerttemberg.

Jewish vital registers were required >from 1828 onwards until 1875 (state
vital registration started in 1876). Many writers added up earlier
entries, and in some towns previously under Austrian sovereignty, the
books start in 1784. Family registers were to be established in 1828 for
all families then in existence, so if old people were alive, one can
sometimes get data back to the 1750 and even 1740s. These family
registers were continued into the 1930s but are not available for all
communities after 1876.

b. Grandduchy of Baden.

Jewish vital registers were required >from 1811 onwards until 1869 (state
vital registration started in 1870). Second writings of all these books
are being preserved in the state archives of Karlsruhe (for northern
Baden) and Freiburg (for southern Baden). About two thirds of these
books (court districts Achern to Offenburg) are available on microfilm.

These films were made since the 1960s >from the original paper copies in
the state archives and are thus much better than the films of 1944 and
1945. If copies of such books are needed, it is adviced to use these
recent films, rather than those made in 1944 and 1945.

Family registers were not required in the Grandduchy of Baden.

c. Principality, later Prussian province of Hohenzollern.

A few large Jewish communities were here whose registers have only
survived on those old microfilms. However, compilations of the families
for Hechingen and Dettensee have been recently made. There is not much
need to struggle with the contents of the original registers any longer,
except for a few other towns whose Jewish families may get reconstructed
some day, too.

5. Methods of evaluation.

I am currently not aware what the term digitalization, as used by Ms.
Miller, actually means. It this just typing the contents of the vital
registers into the computer, or does it mean to store pictorials of
these pages and make them available through the internet? The latter
would require permission by the archives administration which owns the
copyright (the books prior to 1876 or 1870, respectively, were written
upon state laws and have never been Jewish property, as far as I know).

Only a small part of the contemporary people can read the old script
used in these books, and even here in Germany, it is difficult to find
someone who can transcribe them. Many words and numbers are hard to read
or illegible. So just putting these pages into the internet would not be
of great help to the researchers worldwide.

Did anyone ever calculate how many hours are needed to transcribe all
those many pages?

6. Additional sources.

There are many additional sources which may add up to the contents of
these books. I am mainly thinking about probate record which are
available for the 1828 to 1899 period in Wuerttemberg (Jews were now
required to have their probate records made by officials before 1828),
and >from 1865 onwards for most court districts in Baden. Many details
about the families are included in emigration records and other types of
files. In addition, the 1828 lists of the adoption of Jewish family
names in Wuerttemberg and the entries in the local citizenship
registers yield data which are not included, or not legible in the famiy
registers. (By the way, I started to compile these 1828 data for all
Jewish communities in Wuerttemberg in order to publish the lists plus
biographical data for all Jews then alive).

So, as a summary, just transcribing the Jewish vital registers will be
of great help, but still leave many questions open which can be answered
by the use of other sources.

7. The best approach.

The best approach, to my opinion, is to form workgroups who compile
Jewish family books for one community by another, starting with Achern
and ending with Zwingenberg. Each such workgroup can dive deeply into
the local sources, including tombstones, and thus produce better results
than could be achieved by just the evaluation of one single source, or
by a researcher who just copes with one family.

There are still many people in Germany who are interested in the history
and fates of the Jews, and I think one can find retired people anywhere
who are willing to undertake such a project, and who are able to read
the old script or learn it. The largest problem for us Germans are the
cemetery inscriptions.

Such a book of Jewish families for every town would be a very good
argument against those who still deny the existence, or the extension of
the Shoah. A project of this type might even join (Christian) German and
Jewish researchers and resume conversation of groups who have not talked
with each others for two generations. I even imagine state or community
funds can be raised here if a Jewish organization is behind the whole
thing.

This is all for the moment. Please tell my greetings to Mr. Allan Hirsh.
I spent a week with him, visiting the archives of his ancestral towns
and the dedication of a memorial sign for the Jews in Bonfeld. I think
we were both impressed of these days.

[Contact Dottie Miller <dottiem@samcrc.com> for more information.]


Ethnographic question: hats & yarmulkes, Bessarabia, ca. 1900 #romania

Marc L. Greenberg <marek4@...>
 

Hello, all,
I would like to know the name(s) -- Yiddish, Hebrew,
Russian, English -- and significance, if any, of the
particularly type of headgear worn by the bearded man
in these two pictures:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5639

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5640

Were these any particular kind of yarmulke and hat or
were they standard-issue for this place and time
(Kishinev, Bessarabia, ca. 1900) for a middle-aged
Jewish man? Do they signify anything about the
profession of the wearer?

Please reply directly to me. If interest is expressed,
I'd be happy to post a summary.
Sincerely,
Marc L. Greenberg

Researching: KLEIN - Kishinev / Chisinau; BLAU -
Tiszakarad / Karad, Zemplen County; LERNER - Bucharest
/ Bucuresti; HARRIS - Odessa / Odesa; BILANSKY,
GREENBERG, HERMAN - Novograd Volynskij
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign all messages with your location.


Romania SIG #Romania Ethnographic question: hats & yarmulkes, Bessarabia, ca. 1900 #romania

Marc L. Greenberg <marek4@...>
 

Hello, all,
I would like to know the name(s) -- Yiddish, Hebrew,
Russian, English -- and significance, if any, of the
particularly type of headgear worn by the bearded man
in these two pictures:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5639

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5640

Were these any particular kind of yarmulke and hat or
were they standard-issue for this place and time
(Kishinev, Bessarabia, ca. 1900) for a middle-aged
Jewish man? Do they signify anything about the
profession of the wearer?

Please reply directly to me. If interest is expressed,
I'd be happy to post a summary.
Sincerely,
Marc L. Greenberg

Researching: KLEIN - Kishinev / Chisinau; BLAU -
Tiszakarad / Karad, Zemplen County; LERNER - Bucharest
/ Bucuresti; HARRIS - Odessa / Odesa; BILANSKY,
GREENBERG, HERMAN - Novograd Volynskij
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign all messages with your location.