hello kirsten (and all, i'm sending this to the group
as the links & tips may benefit others)

if you have the naturalization records, the best thing
for you to do is take the info on them (ship, port of
entry, date of entry, port of departure) and go thru
ship manifests to find your relatives. if they came
into ellis island you're in luck, as the manifests are
all online. there is a database at www.ellisisland.org
but there is a better one at jewish gen
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellisjw.html
where you cna search with much less information than
the one at ellisisland.org (for instance, if the
americanized surname was GOLDSTEIN, and you're
completely unsure of the original surname, you might
search on all males with surname beginning with GO or
even just G for a certain block of years of arrival.
if you know the ship name, that's even better. this is
how i found out my great grandfather, louis GOLDSTEIN
had been leib GOLDITSCH (i have also found 2 other
original surnames using this method. it takes a while,
but it can be done).

(BTW, there are 27 BAKALARs that i found, only 2 from
Odessa, Olga & Klara) as well as 8 BAKALARZs, 23
BACALs, and a family of BACALIARs >from Minsk) but also
remember that someonw may have said they came from
odessa, which was a larger city, when really they came

from a smaller, lesser known shtetl closeby (for

instance, if you moved to another country you might
tell people you were >from san francisco, because
they'd not be likely to have heard of morgan hill or
even san jose, that'd be likely to confuse your
ancestors down the line if they were to look for you
in and around SF).

also, for those of you who do not have naturalization
records, they can be had easily by sending an email to
the regional office of NARA that your person would
have lived in http://www.archives.gov/facilities/ .
send all the info you know about hte person & ask for
lookups. there is no charge for lookups and the copy
charge is only $10 no matter hwo many records they
send you (so don't be afraid to ask for 20 lookups,
you'll save yourself the $$ of having to send for more
and pay more later).

there is also an odessa listserv thru rootsweb:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/UKR/

good luck!

dayna chalif
san francisco, CA. USA

Subject: Wallock/Bakalar in and >from Odessa
From: Kirsten Votaw <kvfam88@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:43:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 2

I just found out my great-great-grandparents came
from
Odessa, around 1893, and thereafter lived in Upstate
NY (Cohoes, Albany County and Tupper Lake, Franklin
County).

My gg-grandfather, Joseph Mordechai, had the surname
of Wallock, but it could have been Wallach (or any
other variation) before the move. His father's name
was Yitzchak (Isaac, I believe) according to his
tombstone.

My gg-grandmother, Anna or Hannah, had the surname
of
Bakalar, though it was spelled Bacalar on their
naturalization record. Her father's name was Shlomo
(Solomon) Bakalar, per her tombstone.

I believe Joseph had at least two siblings (or
perhaps
cousins) named Abram and Edward, who also moved to
Albany County. Abram (or Abraham) was a rabbi.

If anyone has any info on either family or relatives
with those surnames living in Odessa, I would
greatly
appreciate receiving it. Also, if there are any
online
links or sources in Odessa or elsewhere that would
be
useful in my research I would appreciate knowing
those. This post is my first attempt to do research
in
Odessa and I'm sure there's a lot out there to try.

Thanks so much,

Kirsten Votaw
Morgan Hill, California, USA

hello kirsten (and all, i'm sending this to the group
as the links & tips may benefit others)

if you have the naturalization records, the best thing
for you to do is take the info on them (ship, port of
entry, date of entry, port of departure) and go thru
ship manifests to find your relatives. if they came
into ellis island you're in luck, as the manifests are
all online. there is a database at www.ellisisland.org
but there is a better one at jewish gen
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellisjw.html
where you cna search with much less information than
the one at ellisisland.org (for instance, if the
americanized surname was GOLDSTEIN, and you're
completely unsure of the original surname, you might
search on all males with surname beginning with GO or
even just G for a certain block of years of arrival.
if you know the ship name, that's even better. this is
how i found out my great grandfather, louis GOLDSTEIN
had been leib GOLDITSCH (i have also found 2 other
original surnames using this method. it takes a while,
but it can be done).

(BTW, there are 27 BAKALARs that i found, only 2 from
Odessa, Olga & Klara) as well as 8 BAKALARZs, 23
BACALs, and a family of BACALIARs >from Minsk) but also
remember that someonw may have said they came from
odessa, which was a larger city, when really they came

from a smaller, lesser known shtetl closeby (for

instance, if you moved to another country you might
tell people you were >from san francisco, because
they'd not be likely to have heard of morgan hill or
even san jose, that'd be likely to confuse your
ancestors down the line if they were to look for you
in and around SF).

also, for those of you who do not have naturalization
records, they can be had easily by sending an email to
the regional office of NARA that your person would
have lived in http://www.archives.gov/facilities/ .
send all the info you know about hte person & ask for
lookups. there is no charge for lookups and the copy
charge is only $10 no matter hwo many records they
send you (so don't be afraid to ask for 20 lookups,
you'll save yourself the $$ of having to send for more
and pay more later).

there is also an odessa listserv thru rootsweb:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/UKR/

good luck!

dayna chalif
san francisco, CA. USA

Subject: Wallock/Bakalar in and >from Odessa
From: Kirsten Votaw <kvfam88@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:43:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 2

I just found out my great-great-grandparents came
from
Odessa, around 1893, and thereafter lived in Upstate
NY (Cohoes, Albany County and Tupper Lake, Franklin
County).

My gg-grandfather, Joseph Mordechai, had the surname
of Wallock, but it could have been Wallach (or any
other variation) before the move. His father's name
was Yitzchak (Isaac, I believe) according to his
tombstone.

My gg-grandmother, Anna or Hannah, had the surname
of
Bakalar, though it was spelled Bacalar on their
naturalization record. Her father's name was Shlomo
(Solomon) Bakalar, per her tombstone.

I believe Joseph had at least two siblings (or
perhaps
cousins) named Abram and Edward, who also moved to
Albany County. Abram (or Abraham) was a rabbi.

If anyone has any info on either family or relatives
with those surnames living in Odessa, I would
greatly
appreciate receiving it. Also, if there are any
online
links or sources in Odessa or elsewhere that would
be
useful in my research I would appreciate knowing
those. This post is my first attempt to do research
in
Odessa and I'm sure there's a lot out there to try.

Thanks so much,

Kirsten Votaw
Morgan Hill, California, USA

Dear Genners,
Searching for families Belogalov, Zunder, Kutzko and
Mackler who resided in Zvenigorodka, Kiev Gubernia,
Ukraine.I believe that two or three Kutzko brothers
emmigrated to Moisesville, Argentina at the beginning
of the twentieth century. Berel and David Kutzko and
their families emmigrated to New York City in 1912-13.
Mackler, a hat maker emmigrated to Birobidjan with his
wife Toba Leah and their two sons during the early
thirties.

Doris Resnik
darynbeth@yahoo.com.

I was part of the original Odessa group and Anita did some work for me.
While she did find some KHAIT(CHAIT) and PERCHIK records they are not my
immediate family. I did not try ZAGS because, my paternal great
grandparents immigrated to the US in the 1880s. They went to NY City
and then to Albany, where Fishel MEYER (born PERCHIK) was a tailor. All
but one of my paternal grandfather and his siblings were born in Albany
NY. I would definitely be interested in a birds of a feather group for
Kherson Guberniya.. My two great-great grandfathers were Joseph PERCHIK
and Solomon KHAIT >from the Odessa area, but as far as I can tell not

from Odessa proper. My father's maternal grandmother was Fayge

BIRGARDOVSKY MAGRUTSKY EDELBERG. (She was a widow when she married
Feivel EDELBERG). She may have been >from the city of Kherson or Odessa.
BIRGARDOVSKY was her maiden name, at least that is the way that Solomon
(MAGRUTSKY) DAVIS (he came to the US I believe with the name DAVIS) had
put it on his marriage license application no 4038 in NYC (Married NYC
on Feb 11 1912, when he married Grandpa's sister. The EDELBERG branch
came >from Kolonie L'vovo, an agricultural colony in Kherson Guberniya
(and not to be confused with the city of L'viv.) We already have a
shtetl links page for this colony.

Sarah L. M. Christiansen
Researching: ARONSON, BIRGARDOVSKY, CHAIT/KHAIT, EDELBERG, MAGRUTSKY,
PERCHIK SCHLAMOVITCH all >from the Ukraine
ANKIER, BIGOS, FROM/FRUM, KARMEL(EK), PERLSTADT >from Poland

I am interested in finding the descendents of Chaim Sirota who was married
to Unknown Kertzman. The Kertzmans lived in Kulchiny. Chaim Sirota would
have been born about 1775 as he had a son, Baruch who was born in 1800 and
died in 1825.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gilda Kurtzman
Petach Tikva, Israel
gildak@zahav.net.il

Dear Genners,
Searching for families Belogalov, Zunder, Kutzko and
Mackler who resided in Zvenigorodka, Kiev Gubernia,
Ukraine.I believe that two or three Kutzko brothers
emmigrated to Moisesville, Argentina at the beginning
of the twentieth century. Berel and David Kutzko and
their families emmigrated to New York City in 1912-13.
Mackler, a hat maker emmigrated to Birobidjan with his
wife Toba Leah and their two sons during the early
thirties.

Doris Resnik
darynbeth@yahoo.com.

I was part of the original Odessa group and Anita did some work for me.
While she did find some KHAIT(CHAIT) and PERCHIK records they are not my
immediate family. I did not try ZAGS because, my paternal great
grandparents immigrated to the US in the 1880s. They went to NY City
and then to Albany, where Fishel MEYER (born PERCHIK) was a tailor. All
but one of my paternal grandfather and his siblings were born in Albany
NY. I would definitely be interested in a birds of a feather group for
Kherson Guberniya.. My two great-great grandfathers were Joseph PERCHIK
and Solomon KHAIT >from the Odessa area, but as far as I can tell not

from Odessa proper. My father's maternal grandmother was Fayge

BIRGARDOVSKY MAGRUTSKY EDELBERG. (She was a widow when she married
Feivel EDELBERG). She may have been >from the city of Kherson or Odessa.
BIRGARDOVSKY was her maiden name, at least that is the way that Solomon
(MAGRUTSKY) DAVIS (he came to the US I believe with the name DAVIS) had
put it on his marriage license application no 4038 in NYC (Married NYC
on Feb 11 1912, when he married Grandpa's sister. The EDELBERG branch
came >from Kolonie L'vovo, an agricultural colony in Kherson Guberniya
(and not to be confused with the city of L'viv.) We already have a
shtetl links page for this colony.

Sarah L. M. Christiansen
Researching: ARONSON, BIRGARDOVSKY, CHAIT/KHAIT, EDELBERG, MAGRUTSKY,
PERCHIK SCHLAMOVITCH all >from the Ukraine
ANKIER, BIGOS, FROM/FRUM, KARMEL(EK), PERLSTADT >from Poland

I am interested in finding the descendents of Chaim Sirota who was married
to Unknown Kertzman. The Kertzmans lived in Kulchiny. Chaim Sirota would
have been born about 1775 as he had a son, Baruch who was born in 1800 and
died in 1825.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gilda Kurtzman
Petach Tikva, Israel
gildak@zahav.net.il

Dear cousins,
I want to thank everyone who sent advice re Hamburg lists. I finally broke down
and bought the records and they are of my SCHER family >from Pikeliai, Lithuania.
One very generous person then took the information and found the missing manifests
on EIDB.
Thanks group!
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

I am trying to find out more information about a brother of my husband's
grandfather, Saul FLACH, who went >from Kalisz to New York around 1889 and was
naturalised about 1896.

We know that he died some time between 1908 and 1913 in Philadelphia and wondered
which Jewish cemeteries would be the most likely to find his burial?

In the 1900 census the family, Saul and his wife Mildred (Millie) and their twin
boys were living in Wharton Street, Philadelphia. By 1908 the family consisted of
Saul and Mildred (Millie) had 4 children but I have not been able to find any of
the family in the 1910 census.

Depending on the information found in the census and also immigration index etc
Saul was either listed as Salomon/Solomon or Sol.

Any help with regard to possible Philadelphia Jewish cemeteries in use during 1908
to 1913 would be most appreciated.

Leonie Flack
mail@leonieflack.com
London, UK

Dear all,
I am finding the cousin Sarra GREENWALD, born as POLLAK in 1947 y. Maramures,
Romania. Her mother Maria Pollak was survior after Holocaust and went to Israel.
Sarra with husband Israel GREENWALL in 1979 y. went to US or Canada. Can anybody
to help me.
Peter Polyak
***
MODERATOR NOTE: One of JewishGen's most heavily visited sites is the JewishGen
Family Finder (JGFF) and family connections are being made more and more
frequently. If you have not already done so, please log onto
www.jewishgen.org/jgff and using the ENTER/MODIFY procedure enter and register
all the surnames of interest to your family research. As you learn about more
names and places of origin, they can always be added, but only **you** can keep
your own listings up to date.

I am looking for any information on Haim Zeev (Velvel) OKS >from Kremenets.
I am looking for any information on this man or his descendents. He was born
around 1910 and emigrated to Argentina in the 1930s. He was actively involved
with other Kremenetzers in Argentina.

I am also looking for information on Shlomo and /or Reuven GUZ (or GAS) of Kovel
born around 1900 and emigrated to Argentina in the early 1920s.

Thank you for any help you can provide
Susan Sobel
Herziliya Israel

susan_sobel@hotmail.com
***
MODERATOR NOTE: To increase your chances of success, don't forget to list your
surnames of interest in the JewishGen Family Finder,
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/

I would guess, without knowing more about the location, etc, that Echov would have
been >from Ek, short for Esko. I had a cousin by this name. It is derived >from a
Hebrew name, but not Jacob.

Sally Bruckheimer
Chatham, NJ

Dear cousins,
I want to thank everyone who sent advice re Hamburg lists. I finally broke down
and bought the records and they are of my SCHER family >from Pikeliai, Lithuania.
One very generous person then took the information and found the missing manifests
on EIDB.
Thanks group!
Ruth Hyman
Rockville Centre, NY

I am trying to find out more information about a brother of my husband's
grandfather, Saul FLACH, who went >from Kalisz to New York around 1889 and was
naturalised about 1896.

We know that he died some time between 1908 and 1913 in Philadelphia and wondered
which Jewish cemeteries would be the most likely to find his burial?

In the 1900 census the family, Saul and his wife Mildred (Millie) and their twin
boys were living in Wharton Street, Philadelphia. By 1908 the family consisted of
Saul and Mildred (Millie) had 4 children but I have not been able to find any of
the family in the 1910 census.

Depending on the information found in the census and also immigration index etc
Saul was either listed as Salomon/Solomon or Sol.

Any help with regard to possible Philadelphia Jewish cemeteries in use during 1908
to 1913 would be most appreciated.

Leonie Flack
mail@leonieflack.com
London, UK

Dear all,
I am finding the cousin Sarra GREENWALD, born as POLLAK in 1947 y. Maramures,
Romania. Her mother Maria Pollak was survior after Holocaust and went to Israel.
Sarra with husband Israel GREENWALL in 1979 y. went to US or Canada. Can anybody
to help me.
Peter Polyak
***
MODERATOR NOTE: One of JewishGen's most heavily visited sites is the JewishGen
Family Finder (JGFF) and family connections are being made more and more
frequently. If you have not already done so, please log onto
www.jewishgen.org/jgff and using the ENTER/MODIFY procedure enter and register
all the surnames of interest to your family research. As you learn about more
names and places of origin, they can always be added, but only **you** can keep
your own listings up to date.

I am looking for any information on Haim Zeev (Velvel) OKS >from Kremenets.
I am looking for any information on this man or his descendents. He was born
around 1910 and emigrated to Argentina in the 1930s. He was actively involved
with other Kremenetzers in Argentina.

I am also looking for information on Shlomo and /or Reuven GUZ (or GAS) of Kovel
born around 1900 and emigrated to Argentina in the early 1920s.

Thank you for any help you can provide
Susan Sobel
Herziliya Israel

susan_sobel@hotmail.com
***
MODERATOR NOTE: To increase your chances of success, don't forget to list your
surnames of interest in the JewishGen Family Finder,
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/

I would guess, without knowing more about the location, etc, that Echov would have
been >from Ek, short for Esko. I had a cousin by this name. It is derived >from a
Hebrew name, but not Jacob.

Sally Bruckheimer
Chatham, NJ

We are trying to identify a family member who served in the Polish Diet between
the world wars. His name was WAJNRYB, but we don't have a given name.

Is such information available someplace? (What happened to him is extra credit.)

Israel Pickholtz

I have 3 questions:

1. Should I assume that if the Beider Poland Book lists a last name as
"Rabbinic", (examples of some names: Adler, Halpern, Alber), that the members of
these family were >from the Kohanim tribe?

2. In the 18th and 19th centuries, were there Rabbi who were Levy's and
Israelites? Or just Kohanim?

3. Should I, also, assume that there were Rabbi in the Adler, Halpern, and Alber
families that I am researching (18th and 19th century) or not necessarily?



Thank you,
Tom Erribe