Date   

Potzanka, Hungary #hungary

Micah Salb
 

Friends,

I just received in the mail a copy of the naturalization petition of my 1st
cousin, 3x removed, Mendel "Max" Stern, >from 1907. I would love to get help
about it in two respects.

First, he says on it that he is >from Potzanka, Bereg Megye, Hungary. I
can't locate that town using Shtetlseeker, and I've never heard of it. Most
of my family is >from Munkacs and thereabout (which is also in Bereg Megye),
so I imagine Potzanka is near to there. Is anyone familiar with this town?

Second, I haven't been able to locate his records through Ellis Island. The
Petition says he emigrated >from Rotterdam, Holland on the vessel Pottsdam,
coming >from Potzanka, arriving at the Port of New York on 21st day of July
1902. (This was done in November 1907, so my poor ancestor will be forgiven
if his memory failed him at the ripe old age of about 22.)

The closest I've found is a manifest listing a Mendel Stern dated July 28,
1903, which is one year + one day off (though the month is the same). It
says he is 14 y.o., which is four years off. The town he comes >from appears
to say Polyana, which *might* be Potzanka (Potsana???). It says he is going
to Yonkers, which would be correct. And it looks like it says he is going
to meet his father, "L. Stern," which also raises questions, because his
father's name was Chaim Leib Stern.

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?MID=08174149750236454592&pID=102672080291&show=K%3A%5CT715%2D0378%5CT715%2D03780032%2ETIF&origFN=K%3A%5CT715%2D0378%5CT715%2D03780032%2ETIF&fromEI=1

I started reading through all the passengers on the Potsdam (diff. spelling
from how it appears on the citizenship papers!), arr. July 28 (so cousin Max
was off by a week), but I only got it through 100 pages out of the 500 or so
on the microfilm!

Thanks!

-Micah Salb
STERN FAMILY


Re: h-sig digest: March 10, 2005 #hungary

Mehadrin@...
 

In a message dated 3/11/05 1:21:42 AM, h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< We have reasons to believe that Katz Nina is related to my Katz family

and if this is true I am on the verge of a huge breakthrough in my

research.

>>

I remember reading in the rabbinical genealogical literature that there is a
question as to whether Rabbi Mordechai Banet was actually descended >from Rabbi
Naftali katz, author of Semichas Chachamim. His biographers seem to disagree
about his familial background, I think there is something written about this
by Rabbi YY Greenwald who wrote extenesively about Hungarian rabbis and
Hungarian Jewish history.
A. Marmorstein


Hungary SIG #Hungary Potzanka, Hungary #hungary

Micah Salb
 

Friends,

I just received in the mail a copy of the naturalization petition of my 1st
cousin, 3x removed, Mendel "Max" Stern, >from 1907. I would love to get help
about it in two respects.

First, he says on it that he is >from Potzanka, Bereg Megye, Hungary. I
can't locate that town using Shtetlseeker, and I've never heard of it. Most
of my family is >from Munkacs and thereabout (which is also in Bereg Megye),
so I imagine Potzanka is near to there. Is anyone familiar with this town?

Second, I haven't been able to locate his records through Ellis Island. The
Petition says he emigrated >from Rotterdam, Holland on the vessel Pottsdam,
coming >from Potzanka, arriving at the Port of New York on 21st day of July
1902. (This was done in November 1907, so my poor ancestor will be forgiven
if his memory failed him at the ripe old age of about 22.)

The closest I've found is a manifest listing a Mendel Stern dated July 28,
1903, which is one year + one day off (though the month is the same). It
says he is 14 y.o., which is four years off. The town he comes >from appears
to say Polyana, which *might* be Potzanka (Potsana???). It says he is going
to Yonkers, which would be correct. And it looks like it says he is going
to meet his father, "L. Stern," which also raises questions, because his
father's name was Chaim Leib Stern.

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?MID=08174149750236454592&pID=102672080291&show=K%3A%5CT715%2D0378%5CT715%2D03780032%2ETIF&origFN=K%3A%5CT715%2D0378%5CT715%2D03780032%2ETIF&fromEI=1

I started reading through all the passengers on the Potsdam (diff. spelling
from how it appears on the citizenship papers!), arr. July 28 (so cousin Max
was off by a week), but I only got it through 100 pages out of the 500 or so
on the microfilm!

Thanks!

-Micah Salb
STERN FAMILY


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: h-sig digest: March 10, 2005 #hungary

Mehadrin@...
 

In a message dated 3/11/05 1:21:42 AM, h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< We have reasons to believe that Katz Nina is related to my Katz family

and if this is true I am on the verge of a huge breakthrough in my

research.

>>

I remember reading in the rabbinical genealogical literature that there is a
question as to whether Rabbi Mordechai Banet was actually descended >from Rabbi
Naftali katz, author of Semichas Chachamim. His biographers seem to disagree
about his familial background, I think there is something written about this
by Rabbi YY Greenwald who wrote extenesively about Hungarian rabbis and
Hungarian Jewish history.
A. Marmorstein


Naming Patterns #hungary

B. Frederics <picturethisfilm@...>
 

Hi Alex,

My grandfather was named for his brother who died prior to his birth. =
There
are quite a few examples in my family tree where a surviving child was =
named
for a deceased brother or sister. This pattern was common in Hungary and
Germany.

Regards,
Bonnie Frederics
Tucson, AZ
picturethisfilm@email.com
===================
Subject: Naming patterns
From: alex p miller <alex.miller@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:24:20 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2

Hello, Friends,

I wonder if you have encountered unusual naming patterns in Jewish
families.(other than naming a child after a deceased ancestor)

Examples:
-Naming a child the same as a living parent
-Naming a child after a deceased sibling
-Naming two living children the same name

Best Regards,

Alex Miller, Chester CO. PA
alex.miller@ juno.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Naming Patterns #hungary

B. Frederics <picturethisfilm@...>
 

Hi Alex,

My grandfather was named for his brother who died prior to his birth. =
There
are quite a few examples in my family tree where a surviving child was =
named
for a deceased brother or sister. This pattern was common in Hungary and
Germany.

Regards,
Bonnie Frederics
Tucson, AZ
picturethisfilm@email.com
===================
Subject: Naming patterns
From: alex p miller <alex.miller@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:24:20 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2

Hello, Friends,

I wonder if you have encountered unusual naming patterns in Jewish
families.(other than naming a child after a deceased ancestor)

Examples:
-Naming a child the same as a living parent
-Naming a child after a deceased sibling
-Naming two living children the same name

Best Regards,

Alex Miller, Chester CO. PA
alex.miller@ juno.com


Haas - Detroit Relative #hungary

John J Kovacs <j.kovacs@...>
 

Henry L's mother told him that anyone with the name
HAAS In Detroit would be their relative.
In the North Woodward area of Michigan, that is about
20 miles of the city of Detroit, there are at least 25
names listed in the SBC's residential phone book with
the name HAAS. The next group of names are HAASE.
Maybe she meant the Hungarian word HA'Z (house). It
is pronounced the same way as HAAS. I did not find
any with the name Ha'z.

John Kovacs
Bloomfield, Michigan


Lookup Request - Groedel #hungary

Jerry Zeisler <jzeisler@...>
 

I am in search of the following documents that provide information on the
GROEDEL family:

1. Egyenloseg, 26 Sept, 1890, p. 17
2. Gelleri, Ipartorteneti vazlztok, pp. 576-578

Thank you!

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA


Re: Naming patterns #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

as far as i know it is jewish custom NOT to name children after a living parent. unfortunately some children are named after parents who died. (for example, my great-grandfather was named "baruch ben baruch" after his late father.) however, there are exceptions to every rule, and i have seen a few "jr"s and even "III"s in jewish families (in the southern u.s., for example), but it is VERY unusual.

through jewishgen, i have heard of siblings bearing almost identical names (such as isaac and itsik), possibly where they were named after two different ancestors with similar names. but i can't imagine calling two siblings the same name - at least for practical purposes, that sounds like it would be a bad idea.

on the other hand, some places adapted the jewish practice of patronymics, and listed the father's name as if it were the child's middle name (which it really wasn't). in that case, the hebrew name "yaaqov ben yitzhaq" might be listed as "jakab itzik goldenberger" , while his brother might be "david itzik goldenberger". in this case they really share the same father, not the same name.

i don't know of any prohibition against naming a child after a deceased sibling, and we have a few of these in our family, particularly named after children lost in the holocaust. since it is considered a mitzvah to "perpetuate the name" of someone who died without having children, i would guess that some people would give the same name.


....... tom klein, toronto

alex p miller <alex.miller@juno.com> wrote:

I wonder if you have encountered unusual naming patterns in Jewish
families.(other than naming a child after a deceased ancestor)

Examples:
-Naming a child the same as a living parent
-Naming a child after a deceased sibling
-Naming two living children the same name


Searching: Yehudit BIRNBOIM, in Israel #general

alexallen@...
 

Grandson of Jeno IZSAK(Jack Isaac) searching in Israel for Yehudit
BIRNBOIM, nephew of Odon (Asher)IZSAK, orthopedic shoemaker and
shop owner, born 1889 in Tartolcz, Hungary (now Tirsolt, Romania),
resided in Berehove. Located your name as submitter of Page of
Testimony to Yad Vashem. Please contact me by e-mail
[alexallen@att.net]

ALLEN HAUSMAN
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Jewish Gen. researcher 14033


Hungary SIG #Hungary Haas - Detroit Relative #hungary

John J Kovacs <j.kovacs@...>
 

Henry L's mother told him that anyone with the name
HAAS In Detroit would be their relative.
In the North Woodward area of Michigan, that is about
20 miles of the city of Detroit, there are at least 25
names listed in the SBC's residential phone book with
the name HAAS. The next group of names are HAASE.
Maybe she meant the Hungarian word HA'Z (house). It
is pronounced the same way as HAAS. I did not find
any with the name Ha'z.

John Kovacs
Bloomfield, Michigan


Hungary SIG #Hungary Lookup Request - Groedel #hungary

Jerry Zeisler <jzeisler@...>
 

I am in search of the following documents that provide information on the
GROEDEL family:

1. Egyenloseg, 26 Sept, 1890, p. 17
2. Gelleri, Ipartorteneti vazlztok, pp. 576-578

Thank you!

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Naming patterns #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

as far as i know it is jewish custom NOT to name children after a living parent. unfortunately some children are named after parents who died. (for example, my great-grandfather was named "baruch ben baruch" after his late father.) however, there are exceptions to every rule, and i have seen a few "jr"s and even "III"s in jewish families (in the southern u.s., for example), but it is VERY unusual.

through jewishgen, i have heard of siblings bearing almost identical names (such as isaac and itsik), possibly where they were named after two different ancestors with similar names. but i can't imagine calling two siblings the same name - at least for practical purposes, that sounds like it would be a bad idea.

on the other hand, some places adapted the jewish practice of patronymics, and listed the father's name as if it were the child's middle name (which it really wasn't). in that case, the hebrew name "yaaqov ben yitzhaq" might be listed as "jakab itzik goldenberger" , while his brother might be "david itzik goldenberger". in this case they really share the same father, not the same name.

i don't know of any prohibition against naming a child after a deceased sibling, and we have a few of these in our family, particularly named after children lost in the holocaust. since it is considered a mitzvah to "perpetuate the name" of someone who died without having children, i would guess that some people would give the same name.


....... tom klein, toronto

alex p miller <alex.miller@juno.com> wrote:

I wonder if you have encountered unusual naming patterns in Jewish
families.(other than naming a child after a deceased ancestor)

Examples:
-Naming a child the same as a living parent
-Naming a child after a deceased sibling
-Naming two living children the same name


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: Yehudit BIRNBOIM, in Israel #general

alexallen@...
 

Grandson of Jeno IZSAK(Jack Isaac) searching in Israel for Yehudit
BIRNBOIM, nephew of Odon (Asher)IZSAK, orthopedic shoemaker and
shop owner, born 1889 in Tartolcz, Hungary (now Tirsolt, Romania),
resided in Berehove. Located your name as submitter of Page of
Testimony to Yad Vashem. Please contact me by e-mail
[alexallen@att.net]

ALLEN HAUSMAN
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Jewish Gen. researcher 14033


Re: Trip to Hungary #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i don't know specifically about the stones in those towns, but *most* of the stones that i have seen have been in both hungarian and hebrew. however, it is possible that, just as elsewhere, the very orthodox might use only hebrew on a stone.

my suggestion is to photograph as much as you can, and then get help with reading the inscriptions, possibly through jewishgen's viewmate service. digital cameras are great for this purpose.

there are lots of tips on photographing stones in the jewishgen archives (but do not use shaving cream or any other chemicals). good things to have are a tripod, a spray bottle for water, and lighting control devices, like an umbrella or a piece of foil, or a large flashlight.


....... tom klein, toronto

JGyori@aol.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has traveled to Miskolc, Eger or any of the small
surrounding towns to do any research? Does anyone know if the tombstones are
all going to be in Hebrew only? In the JewishGen cemetery database, there's
Hungarian in the registers but I don't know about the stones. I don't read
Hebrew.


Trip and genealogy research in Budapest #hungary

Hitchans <hitchans@...>
 

I am visiting Budapest next month and would appreciate help with ideas on
how to carry out research, for instance census, birth/marriage/death records
etc. Please give addresses. Where should I start? Thank you.

Gabriela Hitchans
WEINER - Budapest


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Trip to Hungary #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

i don't know specifically about the stones in those towns, but *most* of the stones that i have seen have been in both hungarian and hebrew. however, it is possible that, just as elsewhere, the very orthodox might use only hebrew on a stone.

my suggestion is to photograph as much as you can, and then get help with reading the inscriptions, possibly through jewishgen's viewmate service. digital cameras are great for this purpose.

there are lots of tips on photographing stones in the jewishgen archives (but do not use shaving cream or any other chemicals). good things to have are a tripod, a spray bottle for water, and lighting control devices, like an umbrella or a piece of foil, or a large flashlight.


....... tom klein, toronto

JGyori@aol.com wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has traveled to Miskolc, Eger or any of the small
surrounding towns to do any research? Does anyone know if the tombstones are
all going to be in Hebrew only? In the JewishGen cemetery database, there's
Hungarian in the registers but I don't know about the stones. I don't read
Hebrew.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Trip and genealogy research in Budapest #hungary

Hitchans <hitchans@...>
 

I am visiting Budapest next month and would appreciate help with ideas on
how to carry out research, for instance census, birth/marriage/death records
etc. Please give addresses. Where should I start? Thank you.

Gabriela Hitchans
WEINER - Budapest


Different and similar first names #hungary

Georges Graner
 

You wrote:

>I wonder if you have encountered unusual naming patterns in Jewish
>families.(other than naming a child after a deceased ancestor)

>Examples:
> -Naming a child the same as a living parent

Never met in Jewish Familes

> -Naming a child after a deceased sibling

Very often met in Jewish families

-Naming two living children the same name

I met this problem once or twce in French Jewish families. My explanation
is that the sisters or brothers had different Hebrew names in the
synagogue and that the parents registered fancy names (here twice the same)
at the official clerk, because they could not care less.

Best regards,

Georges GRANER (Paris, France)
georges.graner@wanadoo.fr
Webmaster of Cercle de Généalogie Juive www.genealoj.org


Naming conventions #hungary

גירון
 

Hello,
Alex P. Miller asked about namig conventions,and gave 3 examples.
The 2 first are common among Sephardic Jews.
As a respect to living grand parent or living uncle/aunt the child is named
after him/her.
I know some children who are named that way.

Nava Giron
Israel