Date   

A Big Thank You and a suggestion. #general

Frances Kenney <fkenney@...>
 

Hi All,

A *big thanks* must go to all the wonderful folk on this list. About a
week ago I made a request trying to locate shipping into the USA. One
lister gave me the Jewish form of the first names and armed with this
information I was able to locate the shipping for the family I was looking for.

Another kind lister sent me newspaper articles relating to the target
family and thus added a large side branch to the Family Tree database.

To all who have tried to help with locations both in the USA and the
Russian Empire - I now have a township of origin.

I made the requests as a person who has never traced anybody of either
the Jewish faith nor persons in the USA. What I have learnt >from the
wonderful people on this list will last forever. It has made me look up
some of the History of the Jewish people in Eastern Europe and I realize
the hardships that they encountered. I understand why they migrated and how
many have succeeded in the USA. The friend I was helping has also learnt a
lot as I have forwarded to him many articles I have found in my search. He
now has a better understanding of his ancestors life.

My suggestion is to put a list of alternate names on the JewishGen
website. This would be especially useful to have. ie. Chaim = Hyman or
Wolf = William.

This may also be useful for surnames as many were Americanised and
unless you know the old spellings it is very difficult to locate people.

In years to come there will be many young folk who have grown up with
the new name and won't understand or know the original name. It will also
assist people like myself who are not familiar with names to find older
families especially if they do not have a Jewish background.

Once Again *Thanks*

Frances Kenney
Sydney Australia

MODERATOR NOTE: Resources related to name correspondences already
exist on the JewishGen website. The Given Names Data Bases at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/index.htm includes
a discussion of name correspondences as well as tools for finding
names corresponding to a known version of a name. Several other
documents on names can be found among the JewishGen InfoFiles at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/infofiles/#Names.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen A Big Thank You and a suggestion. #general

Frances Kenney <fkenney@...>
 

Hi All,

A *big thanks* must go to all the wonderful folk on this list. About a
week ago I made a request trying to locate shipping into the USA. One
lister gave me the Jewish form of the first names and armed with this
information I was able to locate the shipping for the family I was looking for.

Another kind lister sent me newspaper articles relating to the target
family and thus added a large side branch to the Family Tree database.

To all who have tried to help with locations both in the USA and the
Russian Empire - I now have a township of origin.

I made the requests as a person who has never traced anybody of either
the Jewish faith nor persons in the USA. What I have learnt >from the
wonderful people on this list will last forever. It has made me look up
some of the History of the Jewish people in Eastern Europe and I realize
the hardships that they encountered. I understand why they migrated and how
many have succeeded in the USA. The friend I was helping has also learnt a
lot as I have forwarded to him many articles I have found in my search. He
now has a better understanding of his ancestors life.

My suggestion is to put a list of alternate names on the JewishGen
website. This would be especially useful to have. ie. Chaim = Hyman or
Wolf = William.

This may also be useful for surnames as many were Americanised and
unless you know the old spellings it is very difficult to locate people.

In years to come there will be many young folk who have grown up with
the new name and won't understand or know the original name. It will also
assist people like myself who are not familiar with names to find older
families especially if they do not have a Jewish background.

Once Again *Thanks*

Frances Kenney
Sydney Australia

MODERATOR NOTE: Resources related to name correspondences already
exist on the JewishGen website. The Given Names Data Bases at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/index.htm includes
a discussion of name correspondences as well as tools for finding
names corresponding to a known version of a name. Several other
documents on names can be found among the JewishGen InfoFiles at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/infofiles/#Names.


In need of retrieving lost translations of documents #latvia

rena rudolph mcdonald
 

Hi, all. Due to viruses infecting my computer, everything had
to be erased...this included the translations many of you sent
in answer to my request on ViewMate. VM 4329 and 4330 are
archived on ViewMate. I am asking again for help in translating
this document.

Thank you,

Rena McDonald
Birmingham, Alabama USA
songinapril@aol.com

Please respond privately.


Latvia SIG #Latvia In need of retrieving lost translations of documents #latvia

rena rudolph mcdonald
 

Hi, all. Due to viruses infecting my computer, everything had
to be erased...this included the translations many of you sent
in answer to my request on ViewMate. VM 4329 and 4330 are
archived on ViewMate. I am asking again for help in translating
this document.

Thank you,

Rena McDonald
Birmingham, Alabama USA
songinapril@aol.com

Please respond privately.


IGS -- The lecture in Tel-Aviv is on September 6 #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

Please excuse me, there was a mistake in the announcement about the lecture
"The Banczewski Family - My Mother's Family >from Sokolka, Poland."
The lecture is on September 6 at 19:00 at Beit Hatanach, 16 Rothschild Blvd.
Tel-Aviv.
Rose Feldman
Secretary Tel-Aviv Branch of the Israel Genealogical Society
rosef@post.tau.ac.il
home phone 03-6413856 (in the evenings)
Join the Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) and receive our Journal
"Sharsheret Hadorot"
Society branches are in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Negev (Beer Sheva),
Netanya.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen IGS -- The lecture in Tel-Aviv is on September 6 #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

Please excuse me, there was a mistake in the announcement about the lecture
"The Banczewski Family - My Mother's Family >from Sokolka, Poland."
The lecture is on September 6 at 19:00 at Beit Hatanach, 16 Rothschild Blvd.
Tel-Aviv.
Rose Feldman
Secretary Tel-Aviv Branch of the Israel Genealogical Society
rosef@post.tau.ac.il
home phone 03-6413856 (in the evenings)
Join the Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) and receive our Journal
"Sharsheret Hadorot"
Society branches are in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Negev (Beer Sheva),
Netanya.


Re: Citizenship Question #latvia

165.212.11.131 IN dshoward@...
 

Robin,

You ask a very interesting question and I am sure there are those better
qualified than I to answer but I will share with you what I know. This is
based on my visit to Latvia last October/November and a long discussion on
this matter with a good friend of mine who is ethnic Russian but was born,
raised and educated in Latvia.

In 1908 there was no country of Latvia. The country was formed about 1917,
in 1941 the USSR took it over and only in 1991 did it emerge as an
independent country. In 1991 there were many ethnic Russians living in
Latvia and the Russian language had been required to be used in daily life
during the USSR occupation.

When Latvia became independent there was a backlash against the Russian
occupiers. By 1995 the Latvian people passed their Law on Citizenship. This
law requires that to be a Latvian citizen one must speak the Latvian
language and know Latvian history even if they were born in Latvia. They
were targeting people such as my friend.

This means that your relative who was born in what is now Latvia would not
have the right to citizenship without learning to speak the Latvian language
as well as learn Latvian history. In 1908 what is called the Latvian
language was not spoken throughout the area that is today Latvia. Our
relatives spoke Yiddish among themselves which was German. To the extent
that Russia was running things in that era they also had to learn Russian
and had to adopt Russian names.

But there is an interesting twist to all this right now. If you visit Latvia
you no longer see the Cyrillic Text. You see things written in Latvian (a
very ancient Indo European language somewhat similar to Italian). But hardly
anyone speaks Latvian outside of Latvia. So the second language you see
everywhere is English. My friend tells me that English is the language of
business. It is neutral (Latvian vs. Russian).

With respect to people born in Latvia who do not speak Latvian how do they
get a passport? THEY APPLY FOR A LATVIAN PASSPORT WITH ALIEN STATUS. My
friend refuses to apply for Latvian citizenship even though he speaks
Latvian and knows Latvian history. He holds a Latvian passport that on the
front says "Alien."

Your relative could apply for this same passport. Your relative would not be
a citizen.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Latvian government has an English
website. You might find more information there. http://www.mfa.gov.lv/en/

I probably did not address your real question which is: What was your
relative's citizenship considered to be in 1908? And, is your relative today
still a citizen of that country? Your relative probably had some travel
documents. Mine did. The travel documents my relative had were in Russian. I
don't know if that made them Russian citizens or if they would still be
considered to be Russian today.

Since I don't know the answers to your real questions I shared what I do
know.

Kindly,

Dave Howard

See my website for lots of pictures of Latvia; see passports issued to Jews
living in Latvia, etc.
Look at the home page and check out my grandfather Abe Horwitz and you will
see his travel documents with a translation.
http://horwitzfam.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Joffe [mailto:jofferobin@yahoo.com]

If someone Jewish was born in Leibow (now Leipaja) in Latvia in 1891 and
left for USA in 1908 and never became a USA citizen what would their
nationality be (passport) Latvian or Russian or German?????
--------------------------


Latvia SIG #Latvia RE: Citizenship Question #latvia

165.212.11.131 IN dshoward@...
 

Robin,

You ask a very interesting question and I am sure there are those better
qualified than I to answer but I will share with you what I know. This is
based on my visit to Latvia last October/November and a long discussion on
this matter with a good friend of mine who is ethnic Russian but was born,
raised and educated in Latvia.

In 1908 there was no country of Latvia. The country was formed about 1917,
in 1941 the USSR took it over and only in 1991 did it emerge as an
independent country. In 1991 there were many ethnic Russians living in
Latvia and the Russian language had been required to be used in daily life
during the USSR occupation.

When Latvia became independent there was a backlash against the Russian
occupiers. By 1995 the Latvian people passed their Law on Citizenship. This
law requires that to be a Latvian citizen one must speak the Latvian
language and know Latvian history even if they were born in Latvia. They
were targeting people such as my friend.

This means that your relative who was born in what is now Latvia would not
have the right to citizenship without learning to speak the Latvian language
as well as learn Latvian history. In 1908 what is called the Latvian
language was not spoken throughout the area that is today Latvia. Our
relatives spoke Yiddish among themselves which was German. To the extent
that Russia was running things in that era they also had to learn Russian
and had to adopt Russian names.

But there is an interesting twist to all this right now. If you visit Latvia
you no longer see the Cyrillic Text. You see things written in Latvian (a
very ancient Indo European language somewhat similar to Italian). But hardly
anyone speaks Latvian outside of Latvia. So the second language you see
everywhere is English. My friend tells me that English is the language of
business. It is neutral (Latvian vs. Russian).

With respect to people born in Latvia who do not speak Latvian how do they
get a passport? THEY APPLY FOR A LATVIAN PASSPORT WITH ALIEN STATUS. My
friend refuses to apply for Latvian citizenship even though he speaks
Latvian and knows Latvian history. He holds a Latvian passport that on the
front says "Alien."

Your relative could apply for this same passport. Your relative would not be
a citizen.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Latvian government has an English
website. You might find more information there. http://www.mfa.gov.lv/en/

I probably did not address your real question which is: What was your
relative's citizenship considered to be in 1908? And, is your relative today
still a citizen of that country? Your relative probably had some travel
documents. Mine did. The travel documents my relative had were in Russian. I
don't know if that made them Russian citizens or if they would still be
considered to be Russian today.

Since I don't know the answers to your real questions I shared what I do
know.

Kindly,

Dave Howard

See my website for lots of pictures of Latvia; see passports issued to Jews
living in Latvia, etc.
Look at the home page and check out my grandfather Abe Horwitz and you will
see his travel documents with a translation.
http://horwitzfam.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Joffe [mailto:jofferobin@yahoo.com]

If someone Jewish was born in Leibow (now Leipaja) in Latvia in 1891 and
left for USA in 1908 and never became a USA citizen what would their
nationality be (passport) Latvian or Russian or German?????
--------------------------


Re: Citizenship Question #latvia

Kahn <denmor@...>
 

Re: Robin Joffe's request

May I suggest you consult with the nearest Latvian Embassy, and
request a written statement based on your specific family situation.
I wrote to Brussel, Belgium in 1993 on behalf of a member of my family
and received a reply about my family >from Mitau/Jelgava >from their
authority in Riga. Here it is in full:
"1. According to current legislation only those persons who were
citizens on 17 June 1940 and their descendents are Latvian citizens.
2. The former Latvian citizenship law applied only to persons who were
resident in Latvia as of 5 September 1919. In your case your father was not
eligible for Latvian citizenship as he was not a resident of Latvia in 1919.
Further, with his naturalization as a South African citizen, he
automatically would have lost his Latvian citizenship if he had had it in
the first instance.
I regret I do not have better news for you."
Yours sincerely,
Director of the Immigration Department in Latvia

I trust this helps Robin and others in a similar situation. For those who
wish to correspond directly with the Latvijas Republikas Pilsonibas Un
Imigracijas Departaments, their address (in 1993) was:
Brivibas blv. 36, Riga 226170, Latvia
Tel. (0132) 219639; Fax (0132) 332154.

Sincerely,
Dennis Kahn
Amsterdam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Joffe" <jofferobin@yahoo.com>
If someone Jewish was born in Leibow (now Leipaja) in Latvia in 1891 and
left for USA in 1908 and never became a USA citizen what would their
nationality be (passport) Latvian or Russian or German?????
-----------------------------


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Citizenship Question #latvia

Kahn <denmor@...>
 

Re: Robin Joffe's request

May I suggest you consult with the nearest Latvian Embassy, and
request a written statement based on your specific family situation.
I wrote to Brussel, Belgium in 1993 on behalf of a member of my family
and received a reply about my family >from Mitau/Jelgava >from their
authority in Riga. Here it is in full:
"1. According to current legislation only those persons who were
citizens on 17 June 1940 and their descendents are Latvian citizens.
2. The former Latvian citizenship law applied only to persons who were
resident in Latvia as of 5 September 1919. In your case your father was not
eligible for Latvian citizenship as he was not a resident of Latvia in 1919.
Further, with his naturalization as a South African citizen, he
automatically would have lost his Latvian citizenship if he had had it in
the first instance.
I regret I do not have better news for you."
Yours sincerely,
Director of the Immigration Department in Latvia

I trust this helps Robin and others in a similar situation. For those who
wish to correspond directly with the Latvijas Republikas Pilsonibas Un
Imigracijas Departaments, their address (in 1993) was:
Brivibas blv. 36, Riga 226170, Latvia
Tel. (0132) 219639; Fax (0132) 332154.

Sincerely,
Dennis Kahn
Amsterdam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Joffe" <jofferobin@yahoo.com>
If someone Jewish was born in Leibow (now Leipaja) in Latvia in 1891 and
left for USA in 1908 and never became a USA citizen what would their
nationality be (passport) Latvian or Russian or German?????
-----------------------------


Rabbi Yosef KARO #rabbinic

philapple@...
 

On August 25 there was a gathering in northern Israel of putative
descendants of Rabbi Yosef KARO (Shulchan Aruch, Beit Yosef, Kesef
Mishna, etc) -- http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=67854

I wonder if anyone has undertaken a study of Rabbi KARO's family.
There are quite a few Jews (both Sefardi and Ashkenazi) with the
last name KARO. Is there a KARO genealogy? Do we have reliable
information and documentation on the descendants of Rabbi KARO?

Phillip Applebaum
Oak Park, MI, USA


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Rabbi Yosef KARO #rabbinic

philapple@...
 

On August 25 there was a gathering in northern Israel of putative
descendants of Rabbi Yosef KARO (Shulchan Aruch, Beit Yosef, Kesef
Mishna, etc) -- http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=67854

I wonder if anyone has undertaken a study of Rabbi KARO's family.
There are quite a few Jews (both Sefardi and Ashkenazi) with the
last name KARO. Is there a KARO genealogy? Do we have reliable
information and documentation on the descendants of Rabbi KARO?

Phillip Applebaum
Oak Park, MI, USA


any josvainiai cousins out there? #lithuania

Sara Crystal <scrapbasket@...>
 

dear friends, I think I may have found my great-grandmother's village
in Lithuania.After a long search, I found out my greatgrandmother's
parents were Nota and Rachel FRIEDMAN. My greatgrandmother was
Sima/Simie/Gussie/Sadie/Amner Seemh FREEMAN/FRIEDMAN of Lithuania who
married Hersh/Harris/Haresh RABINOWITZ/RABINOWITSCH in 1886, in the old
country.They immigrated to Newark NJ in 1887-1891.MY grandmother was
Jennie Crystal/Shayne Rabinowitz 1887-1968, born "in a little stetl in
LIthuania".

In 1874, Russian revision lists, there is in Josvainiai, Lithuania,
Notel FRIDMAN, son of Abel, wife Rase FRIDMAN, daughter Sore, daughter
Chaya Mina, and a lot of other Fridmans. The birthdate of Sore is only
6 years off >from my great-grandmother Sadie.

I also had the pleasure of speaking with Judith Meisel who is >from
Josvainiai and told me some things about the history of the place.

I am also searching for my great-grandfather's family: Harris
Rabinowitz,b 1860s, d 1935, a redheaded glazier, married 3 times,
immigrated to Newark NJ 1887, parents were Benjamin RABINOWITZ and
Sadie KAPLAN.

If you have any help or may be a cousin, please write. Sara CRYSTAL in
Oakland CA, researching CRYSTAL/KRYSTAL in Warsaw and Graiwejo, POLAND,
and RABINOWITZ, KAPLAN, FRIDMAN, FREEMAN, FRUMAN in LITHUAINIA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania any josvainiai cousins out there? #lithuania

Sara Crystal <scrapbasket@...>
 

dear friends, I think I may have found my great-grandmother's village
in Lithuania.After a long search, I found out my greatgrandmother's
parents were Nota and Rachel FRIEDMAN. My greatgrandmother was
Sima/Simie/Gussie/Sadie/Amner Seemh FREEMAN/FRIEDMAN of Lithuania who
married Hersh/Harris/Haresh RABINOWITZ/RABINOWITSCH in 1886, in the old
country.They immigrated to Newark NJ in 1887-1891.MY grandmother was
Jennie Crystal/Shayne Rabinowitz 1887-1968, born "in a little stetl in
LIthuania".

In 1874, Russian revision lists, there is in Josvainiai, Lithuania,
Notel FRIDMAN, son of Abel, wife Rase FRIDMAN, daughter Sore, daughter
Chaya Mina, and a lot of other Fridmans. The birthdate of Sore is only
6 years off >from my great-grandmother Sadie.

I also had the pleasure of speaking with Judith Meisel who is >from
Josvainiai and told me some things about the history of the place.

I am also searching for my great-grandfather's family: Harris
Rabinowitz,b 1860s, d 1935, a redheaded glazier, married 3 times,
immigrated to Newark NJ 1887, parents were Benjamin RABINOWITZ and
Sadie KAPLAN.

If you have any help or may be a cousin, please write. Sara CRYSTAL in
Oakland CA, researching CRYSTAL/KRYSTAL in Warsaw and Graiwejo, POLAND,
and RABINOWITZ, KAPLAN, FRIDMAN, FREEMAN, FRUMAN in LITHUAINIA

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Marriage Bannes #poland

grtuckman@...
 

Hello Group,

Once again I turn to you for your expertise.

While translating my ggrandparents, Szmerek AUSTRYAN and Ita Laja JOSKOWICZ,
1853 marriage record >from Zarnow, Poland I have come across a discrepancy?

The marriage took place on March 20, 1853. The record is clear as day (for
once). Yet thebannes are listed as the "16th, 23rd and 30th of July of
the current year". When I go to a "calendar" web site and check the days
of the week, the July dates match up to Saturday, (January matches up to a
Sunday, and February, of course, makes no sense).

So, my questions are as follows. Weren't bannes announced before the
wedding? Were they announced on the Sabbath? Is this just some type of
recorder error? Or will it simply remain a mystery.

Your help most appreciated.

Greg R. Tuckman
Tempe, AZ USA


JRI Poland #Poland Marriage Bannes #poland

grtuckman@...
 

Hello Group,

Once again I turn to you for your expertise.

While translating my ggrandparents, Szmerek AUSTRYAN and Ita Laja JOSKOWICZ,
1853 marriage record >from Zarnow, Poland I have come across a discrepancy?

The marriage took place on March 20, 1853. The record is clear as day (for
once). Yet thebannes are listed as the "16th, 23rd and 30th of July of
the current year". When I go to a "calendar" web site and check the days
of the week, the July dates match up to Saturday, (January matches up to a
Sunday, and February, of course, makes no sense).

So, my questions are as follows. Weren't bannes announced before the
wedding? Were they announced on the Sabbath? Is this just some type of
recorder error? Or will it simply remain a mystery.

Your help most appreciated.

Greg R. Tuckman
Tempe, AZ USA


Poland Tour #poland

Josef Bismanovsky <joebiz@...>
 

I just returned >from a Family Heritage Tour of Poland with my husband's
family. Our tour guide's vast knowledge as well as personalized additions
of music, poems, testimonies of survivors and her personal stories only
enriched our visit. We not only saw the traditional Jewish sites of
Warsaw, Lublin and Krakow, but experienced a very personalized tour of the
family's home town, Wyszkow. If you are looking for a very personal
experience of Poland, contact me and I can give you more details.

Phyllis Cascade Bismanovsky, searching for family names Rymarz and Kaszkeit
of Kaluszyn

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland Poland Tour #poland

Josef Bismanovsky <joebiz@...>
 

I just returned >from a Family Heritage Tour of Poland with my husband's
family. Our tour guide's vast knowledge as well as personalized additions
of music, poems, testimonies of survivors and her personal stories only
enriched our visit. We not only saw the traditional Jewish sites of
Warsaw, Lublin and Krakow, but experienced a very personalized tour of the
family's home town, Wyszkow. If you are looking for a very personal
experience of Poland, contact me and I can give you more details.

Phyllis Cascade Bismanovsky, searching for family names Rymarz and Kaszkeit
of Kaluszyn

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Gravestone translationi #poland

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

Hi Guys

I'm hoping someone could transalte these Hebrew gravestones, they belong
to my GGPs who came to the UK in about 1900, we don't know anything
about them other than they were Woolf and Rebecca Forman, and that the
gravestones say zev ben zvi forman and rvka bat avram

I'm hoping that the inscriptions might offer some more info

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D4668
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D4669

Thanks

Ben Forman

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


JRI Poland #Poland Gravestone translationi #poland

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

Hi Guys

I'm hoping someone could transalte these Hebrew gravestones, they belong
to my GGPs who came to the UK in about 1900, we don't know anything
about them other than they were Woolf and Rebecca Forman, and that the
gravestones say zev ben zvi forman and rvka bat avram

I'm hoping that the inscriptions might offer some more info

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D4668
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3D4669

Thanks

Ben Forman

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.