Date   

meaning of the Yiddish words "Rischon," "Sansk," "odjemin" #general

Barb & Howard
 

A copy of an original typewritten letter has recently come into my hands.
The letter was dictated the day after Rosh Hashanah, in September 1939, by
my grand father Zeev STEINMETZ in Rohatyn, Poland {Rogatin, Ukraine} sent to
his children in America. World War II had just begun. The Russians and
Polish armies were engaged in fighting in the town. The wording and
structure of the letter reveals that the Rohatyners obviously spoke, and
wrote, in a regional Yiddish dialect. In the body of the letter he uses
these three words, Rischon, Sansk and odjemin. The first two words seem
to be place names. The context of the letter has been recently
professionally translated, the spelling of these undefined words in the
translation were left exactly as when they were originally written .I would
appreciate it if there is a knowledgeable Genner out there who can provide
the meaning of these terms. It would hopefully render sensible clarity as to
what the statements in the letter are saying. Here is what the sentences say:

-- When we leave Rischon we will be the luckiest people. --

What does "Rischon" translate into?

-- They needed Seligen to pack up in preparation to evacuate the
records to Sansk. --

What does "Sansk" translate into?

-- Kamiski, Trocki, Yuni and still other odjemin stayed back. --

What does "odjemin" translate into?

The letter rambles on, without punctuations, describing, in an inarticulate
and old country way, the horrendous situation the Rohatyners found
themselves in. The letter yields an insight as to why there are now only
indexes available of the Rohatyn records, and no original documentation.
Zeev goes on to state that there was an alarm, and they came to wake up Mr.
Stein so that he should go and start packing up the court records in
preparation to take the records and files away. A person, named Seligen,
evidently was placed in charge of evacuating and accompanying the records on
a train to Chadrow (Chodorow) {4924-2419} about 12 miles west of Rohatyn in
attempt to save them. There was no room for the records in Chadrow. So Stryj
was the next major town on the rail line where there might be safe record
storage space.
Seligen was actually attempting to go beyond on, along this circuitous
route, to Stanislaus. When the train got beyond the town of Bolechaw the
train was being shot at, so it backed up. Eventually Seligen made it back to
the city of Stryj. =A0My grand father, Zeev, makes no further statement as to
what became of the records or where they wound up; most likely because he
did not have any further information at the time the letter was dictated.
However, one is left with the hopeful impression that the records under the
dedicated care and protection of Seligen just may have survived. Zeev leaves
us hanging with the information that Seligen was presently in Stryj with the
Polish authorities. He cannot get back to Rohatyn because there were outlaw
gangs on the road. One now wonders, and hopes, if somehow a way may have
been found at that time to stash the Rohatyn records away with the Jewish
records in Stryj. Wouldn=92t it be miraculous if while the Stryj records were
in the process of being prepared for entry in the AGAD project if the
Rohatyn records turned up?

Howard Steinmetz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen meaning of the Yiddish words "Rischon," "Sansk," "odjemin" #general

Barb & Howard
 

A copy of an original typewritten letter has recently come into my hands.
The letter was dictated the day after Rosh Hashanah, in September 1939, by
my grand father Zeev STEINMETZ in Rohatyn, Poland {Rogatin, Ukraine} sent to
his children in America. World War II had just begun. The Russians and
Polish armies were engaged in fighting in the town. The wording and
structure of the letter reveals that the Rohatyners obviously spoke, and
wrote, in a regional Yiddish dialect. In the body of the letter he uses
these three words, Rischon, Sansk and odjemin. The first two words seem
to be place names. The context of the letter has been recently
professionally translated, the spelling of these undefined words in the
translation were left exactly as when they were originally written .I would
appreciate it if there is a knowledgeable Genner out there who can provide
the meaning of these terms. It would hopefully render sensible clarity as to
what the statements in the letter are saying. Here is what the sentences say:

-- When we leave Rischon we will be the luckiest people. --

What does "Rischon" translate into?

-- They needed Seligen to pack up in preparation to evacuate the
records to Sansk. --

What does "Sansk" translate into?

-- Kamiski, Trocki, Yuni and still other odjemin stayed back. --

What does "odjemin" translate into?

The letter rambles on, without punctuations, describing, in an inarticulate
and old country way, the horrendous situation the Rohatyners found
themselves in. The letter yields an insight as to why there are now only
indexes available of the Rohatyn records, and no original documentation.
Zeev goes on to state that there was an alarm, and they came to wake up Mr.
Stein so that he should go and start packing up the court records in
preparation to take the records and files away. A person, named Seligen,
evidently was placed in charge of evacuating and accompanying the records on
a train to Chadrow (Chodorow) {4924-2419} about 12 miles west of Rohatyn in
attempt to save them. There was no room for the records in Chadrow. So Stryj
was the next major town on the rail line where there might be safe record
storage space.
Seligen was actually attempting to go beyond on, along this circuitous
route, to Stanislaus. When the train got beyond the town of Bolechaw the
train was being shot at, so it backed up. Eventually Seligen made it back to
the city of Stryj. =A0My grand father, Zeev, makes no further statement as to
what became of the records or where they wound up; most likely because he
did not have any further information at the time the letter was dictated.
However, one is left with the hopeful impression that the records under the
dedicated care and protection of Seligen just may have survived. Zeev leaves
us hanging with the information that Seligen was presently in Stryj with the
Polish authorities. He cannot get back to Rohatyn because there were outlaw
gangs on the road. One now wonders, and hopes, if somehow a way may have
been found at that time to stash the Rohatyn records away with the Jewish
records in Stryj. Wouldn=92t it be miraculous if while the Stryj records were
in the process of being prepared for entry in the AGAD project if the
Rohatyn records turned up?

Howard Steinmetz


Re: Canadian immigration records #general

T. Wise <terwise111@...>
 

"Hilary Henkin" <hilary@proppersource.com> wrote in message

First, you should determine - or guess - at which US border city he came
into America. Records for those crossings do exist, are microfilmed, and
available >from the Mormon Library, nearby US National Archives, etc.
Thank you Hilary. I know he came >from Montreal to NYC on the Grand Trunk
RR, so I'll try to find out which town would have been that border crossing.
Once I find the town, are those records indexed, or do I have to go through
page by page looking for the name on the approximate date I have for the
trip?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Canadian immigration records #general

T. Wise <terwise111@...>
 

"Hilary Henkin" <hilary@proppersource.com> wrote in message

First, you should determine - or guess - at which US border city he came
into America. Records for those crossings do exist, are microfilmed, and
available >from the Mormon Library, nearby US National Archives, etc.
Thank you Hilary. I know he came >from Montreal to NYC on the Grand Trunk
RR, so I'll try to find out which town would have been that border crossing.
Once I find the town, are those records indexed, or do I have to go through
page by page looking for the name on the approximate date I have for the
trip?


VM4186; Do you know any of these people HARTZ Family, Mum & Dad Hymie,Ann,Isaac,"myself". J23 1937 #general

Richard <mcdonaldrw@...>
 

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4186
Picture >from family album dated J23 1937 taken in UK
I know these or at least some of them to be cousins

Martha Laufer McDonald
marthamcdonald@verizon.net
Looking for LAUFER, KELLER,WESCHLER, WACH, WAKSHLACH, WAJS_KLAG,
WAGS_BLAG, etc.,Moisha Yitzhak/Moszek Icek LAUFER of Lodz, Poland.
Yona LAUFER of UK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VM4186; Do you know any of these people HARTZ Family, Mum & Dad Hymie,Ann,Isaac,"myself". J23 1937 #general

Richard <mcdonaldrw@...>
 

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4186
Picture >from family album dated J23 1937 taken in UK
I know these or at least some of them to be cousins

Martha Laufer McDonald
marthamcdonald@verizon.net
Looking for LAUFER, KELLER,WESCHLER, WACH, WAKSHLACH, WAJS_KLAG,
WAGS_BLAG, etc.,Moisha Yitzhak/Moszek Icek LAUFER of Lodz, Poland.
Yona LAUFER of UK


Searching for Michael FENSTEIN from Austin, Texas #general

cromrider@...
 

I have several items >from an estate sale that I would like to get back into
the hands of the owner. The bible is inscribed as follows:

To Michael FENSTEIN (spelling is hard to read of surname) upon the occasion
of his Bar Mitzvah on Saturday April 21, 1956. Sisterhood Bnai Israel of
Austin; Rabbi Szi(?)Fineberg.

I would say that Michael was born in 1943 and am guessing that the Austin
refers to Austin, Texas--unless someone knows of this synagogue in another
city.

Please e-mail me privately at cromrider@aol.com and *not* at the above Juno
address.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching for Michael FENSTEIN from Austin, Texas #general

cromrider@...
 

I have several items >from an estate sale that I would like to get back into
the hands of the owner. The bible is inscribed as follows:

To Michael FENSTEIN (spelling is hard to read of surname) upon the occasion
of his Bar Mitzvah on Saturday April 21, 1956. Sisterhood Bnai Israel of
Austin; Rabbi Szi(?)Fineberg.

I would say that Michael was born in 1943 and am guessing that the Austin
refers to Austin, Texas--unless someone knows of this synagogue in another
city.

Please e-mail me privately at cromrider@aol.com and *not* at the above Juno
address.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


Re Family MOOSBERG #general

ronald Wallace
 

I am looking for someone who might be willing to do some research for me in
Buckeburg in Germany

I have heard >from the local State Archives that there are about 30 files
there in the Family MOOSBERG, which I am virtually certain are related in
some way to my Moosbergs.

If anyone can help, please contact me privately.

Many thanks

Ronny Wallace
New Jersey, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re Family MOOSBERG #general

ronald Wallace
 

I am looking for someone who might be willing to do some research for me in
Buckeburg in Germany

I have heard >from the local State Archives that there are about 30 files
there in the Family MOOSBERG, which I am virtually certain are related in
some way to my Moosbergs.

If anyone can help, please contact me privately.

Many thanks

Ronny Wallace
New Jersey, USA


Re: Canadian immigration records #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

It does not matter what town was his border crossing point into the US. If
he entered at a time when border crossings were recorded by the US, the
record of that event will be in the so-called St. Alban's lists that Hilary
mentioned. The St. Alban's Immigration District was the entire eastern
US-Canadian border (and for a time included all crossings >from Atlantic to
Pacific.

--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

"T. Wise" <terwise111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:200406021530.i52FUC3c083523@mailbox5.ucsd.edu...

"Hilary Henkin" <hilary@proppersource.com> wrote in message

First, you should determine - or guess - at which US border city he came
into America. Records for those crossings do exist, are microfilmed,
and available >from the Mormon Library, nearby US National Archives, etc.
Thank you Hilary. I know he came >from Montreal to NYC on the Grand Trunk
RR, so I'll try to find out which town would have been that border crossing.
Once I find the town, are those records indexed, or do I have to go through
page by page looking for the name on the approximate date I have for the
trip?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Canadian immigration records #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

It does not matter what town was his border crossing point into the US. If
he entered at a time when border crossings were recorded by the US, the
record of that event will be in the so-called St. Alban's lists that Hilary
mentioned. The St. Alban's Immigration District was the entire eastern
US-Canadian border (and for a time included all crossings >from Atlantic to
Pacific.

--
Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

"T. Wise" <terwise111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:200406021530.i52FUC3c083523@mailbox5.ucsd.edu...

"Hilary Henkin" <hilary@proppersource.com> wrote in message

First, you should determine - or guess - at which US border city he came
into America. Records for those crossings do exist, are microfilmed,
and available >from the Mormon Library, nearby US National Archives, etc.
Thank you Hilary. I know he came >from Montreal to NYC on the Grand Trunk
RR, so I'll try to find out which town would have been that border crossing.
Once I find the town, are those records indexed, or do I have to go through
page by page looking for the name on the approximate date I have for the
trip?


Re: London census: "Austria Kruka Austrian" #general

Robert Fraser <rwfgjf@...>
 

I might be on the wrong track altogether, but I wonder
if "kruka" could be a census clerk's mis-spelling of
"K und K", meaning "Kaiserlich and Koeniglich"; ie,
Imperial and Royal, the appelation given to the Hapsburg empire
of Austria-Hungary. But it's just a guess.

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au

Marge Goldin writes:

On the 1901 London census in the "Where Born" column, it says "Austria
Kruka Austrian" for my ggm's second husband. Does anyone know where this is?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: London census: "Austria Kruka Austrian" #general

Robert Fraser <rwfgjf@...>
 

I might be on the wrong track altogether, but I wonder
if "kruka" could be a census clerk's mis-spelling of
"K und K", meaning "Kaiserlich and Koeniglich"; ie,
Imperial and Royal, the appelation given to the Hapsburg empire
of Austria-Hungary. But it's just a guess.

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
rwfgjf@iinet.net.au

Marge Goldin writes:

On the 1901 London census in the "Where Born" column, it says "Austria
Kruka Austrian" for my ggm's second husband. Does anyone know where this is?


ViewMate # 4192 Polish marriage certificate #general

Anita Frankel <frankel2@...>
 

Hello all:

I have uploaded to ViewMate what I believe is the marriage
certificate of Szmul Frenkenstejn of Dabie, Russian Poland, 1851.

I would be very grateful if someone could translate it for me. I
especially need the name of the bride and the names of both sets
of parents. It is written in Polish.

The document can be found at:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4192

Please respond directly to me, not to the list.

Thank you.

Anita Frankel frankel2@mindspring.com
Storrs, CT USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate # 4192 Polish marriage certificate #general

Anita Frankel <frankel2@...>
 

Hello all:

I have uploaded to ViewMate what I believe is the marriage
certificate of Szmul Frenkenstejn of Dabie, Russian Poland, 1851.

I would be very grateful if someone could translate it for me. I
especially need the name of the bride and the names of both sets
of parents. It is written in Polish.

The document can be found at:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4192

Please respond directly to me, not to the list.

Thank you.

Anita Frankel frankel2@mindspring.com
Storrs, CT USA


GRYNSHTEIN, GROB, HOLZMAN, FISZERMAN, TCHORZ from Ciechanow #general

Marty Meyers <meyers01@...>
 

Mendel Bordowicz was my great-grandfather (I'm named after him)
and while the name Bordowicz is quite rare, within that clan Mendel B's
seem to grow on trees, so I've called them 'other Mendel', 'yet another
Mendel', 'still another Mendel', etc. They are all related but 'other
Mendel' has not been at the top of my list of priorities, partly because
Makow records before the late 1890s don't exist anymore.

I don't know why it took me all this time but I finally looked into the family
of '(other) Mendel' Bordowicz's wife Blima Grynshtejn.
The Bordowicz family was >from Karniewo and Golymin, near Makow Maz.

I finally looked at Ciechanow (where a number of Bordowicz were born) and
immediately found 'other Mendel's' wife Blima Grinshtein and her family back to
the early 1700s!

So, here are the new names I'm researching >from Ciechanow:

0. Hil and Blima Grynshtein had two sons, Lewin and Jzrael, born early 1800s.
1. Lewin G married Jura Fiszerman c.1820
2. Jura's father was Dawid Fiszerman
3. Their daughter Golda Frayda G married Lewek Jonas Holzman (son of Abram
and Malka H) in 1949.
No other Holzman records for Ciechanow so I assume he came >from
elsewhere (need to go back and look at that record again).
4. Their daughter Blima G married 'other Mendel' Bordowicz
5. Other children of Lewin and Jura G were Abraham, Hinda, Azryel Haskiel,
Aron Joel.
6. Lewin's brother Jzrael G married Dyna Grob in 1827.
7. Dyna's parents were Mosiek Hersz and Laja Grob.
8. Jzrael and Dyna G had a daughter Chana Marya who married Aron Tchorz in
1849.

If any of this sounds familiar, please contact me privately at
<meyers01@comcast.net>

Thanks,

Marty Meyers


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GRYNSHTEIN, GROB, HOLZMAN, FISZERMAN, TCHORZ from Ciechanow #general

Marty Meyers <meyers01@...>
 

Mendel Bordowicz was my great-grandfather (I'm named after him)
and while the name Bordowicz is quite rare, within that clan Mendel B's
seem to grow on trees, so I've called them 'other Mendel', 'yet another
Mendel', 'still another Mendel', etc. They are all related but 'other
Mendel' has not been at the top of my list of priorities, partly because
Makow records before the late 1890s don't exist anymore.

I don't know why it took me all this time but I finally looked into the family
of '(other) Mendel' Bordowicz's wife Blima Grynshtejn.
The Bordowicz family was >from Karniewo and Golymin, near Makow Maz.

I finally looked at Ciechanow (where a number of Bordowicz were born) and
immediately found 'other Mendel's' wife Blima Grinshtein and her family back to
the early 1700s!

So, here are the new names I'm researching >from Ciechanow:

0. Hil and Blima Grynshtein had two sons, Lewin and Jzrael, born early 1800s.
1. Lewin G married Jura Fiszerman c.1820
2. Jura's father was Dawid Fiszerman
3. Their daughter Golda Frayda G married Lewek Jonas Holzman (son of Abram
and Malka H) in 1949.
No other Holzman records for Ciechanow so I assume he came >from
elsewhere (need to go back and look at that record again).
4. Their daughter Blima G married 'other Mendel' Bordowicz
5. Other children of Lewin and Jura G were Abraham, Hinda, Azryel Haskiel,
Aron Joel.
6. Lewin's brother Jzrael G married Dyna Grob in 1827.
7. Dyna's parents were Mosiek Hersz and Laja Grob.
8. Jzrael and Dyna G had a daughter Chana Marya who married Aron Tchorz in
1849.

If any of this sounds familiar, please contact me privately at
<meyers01@comcast.net>

Thanks,

Marty Meyers


Russian Translation Help Requested #general

grtuckman@...
 

Dear Group,

I have *finally* found my grandfather's siblings in Radom, Poland.
Once again I am asking for some help translating the following documents
posted on Viewmate. Thank you for your time and expertise.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4180
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4181
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4182
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4183
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4184

Please respond privately.

Greg Tuckman
Tempe, AZ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Russian Translation Help Requested #general

grtuckman@...
 

Dear Group,

I have *finally* found my grandfather's siblings in Radom, Poland.
Once again I am asking for some help translating the following documents
posted on Viewmate. Thank you for your time and expertise.

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4180
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4181
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4182
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4183
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4184

Please respond privately.

Greg Tuckman
Tempe, AZ