Welcome Henry Edelman to the Keidan list. Your family story is fascinating.

You mention the Johannesburg Keidaner landsmanshaft; we actually know a good
bit about them. I have a copy of the association's 1950 anniversay book,
with articles about Keidan and the association's history in English and
Yiddish. One is David Wolpe's account of the Nazi massacre in August, 1941
which is on the www.keidan.net website. I can post some of the other pieces
here if anyone is interested.

All the best,

Andy Cassel
acassel@comcast.net

Welcome Henry Edelman to the Keidan list. Your family story is fascinating.

You mention the Johannesburg Keidaner landsmanshaft; we actually know a good
bit about them. I have a copy of the association's 1950 anniversay book,
with articles about Keidan and the association's history in English and
Yiddish. One is David Wolpe's account of the Nazi massacre in August, 1941
which is on the www.keidan.net website. I can post some of the other pieces
here if anyone is interested.

All the best,

Andy Cassel
acassel@comcast.net

In a message dated 1/11/04 13:07:56, the list MODERATOR wrote:

<< Also, if you can find it, the book by Ben-Zion Kaganoff on Jewish Names is
the bible in this field. MOD.--- >>

A better book than Kaganoff, at least in my humble opinion is "Jewish
Personal Names" by Rabbi Shmuel Gorr.

Dan Nussbaum (CITY??? STATE???)

MODERATOR COMMENT: I have read the Kaganoff book, not the other. There are
several more comprehensive sources for information on Jewish names which can
be found by searching the SIG archives via:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop

Kaganoff's book is out of print but it is easy to read, entertaining and
provides a fine overview of its subject. John Lowens, acting moderator

In a message dated 1/11/04 13:07:56, the list MODERATOR wrote:

<< Also, if you can find it, the book by Ben-Zion Kaganoff on Jewish Names is
the bible in this field. MOD.--- >>

A better book than Kaganoff, at least in my humble opinion is "Jewish
Personal Names" by Rabbi Shmuel Gorr.

Dan Nussbaum (CITY??? STATE???)

MODERATOR COMMENT: I have read the Kaganoff book, not the other. There are
several more comprehensive sources for information on Jewish names which can
be found by searching the SIG archives via:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop

Kaganoff's book is out of print but it is easy to read, entertaining and
provides a fine overview of its subject. John Lowens, acting moderator

Dear RavSiggers:

from the Janaury 9 Machberes column:

Mentioned is R. Ephraim ROSEN [son-in-law of R. Shaul Yedidya Elazar
TAUB], son of R. Mordechai ROSEN (1881-1939) [married Sara BELICH], son
of R. Meir Arik (1856-1925).

Last week noted the passing of R. Meshulem Syshe HESCHEL and his
ancestry. His daughter Shoshana's and her husband's, R. Nochem Dov
Ber BREYER [who Perets Mett correctly noted is the Boyaner Rebbe,
and is the son-in-law of R. Sholom FRIEDMAN (1890-1971)], son (name
not given but I am informed by a source it may be Menachem) married
the daughter of R. Yisroel Eliezer ADLER [son-in-law of R. Moshe
ERNSTER, son-in- law of R. Chaim Mayer HAGER], son of R. Chaim
ADLER, also a son-in-law of R. Chaim Mayer HAGER (1887-1972).

Yoel GLANTZ, son of R. Yechezkel Shraga GLANTZ [son-in-law of
R. Bertzie LEIFER [who according to my research married Saral, the
daughter of R. Meir David STEINMETZ, son of R. Nachman STEINMETZ,
a descendent of the TAZ]. R. Bertzie LEIFER is a descendent of
R. Meir the Great of Premishlan (see below and check the Unbroken
Chain and Meir Wunder's Meorei Galicia), son of R. Yosef Chaim
GLANTZ, married Blimi, daughter of R. Menachem Mendel TEITLEBAUM
[son-in-law of R. Dovid Dov Berish Meisels (son-in-law of R. Moshe
TEITLEBAUM, Satmar Rebbe), son of R. Zvi Hirsch MEISELS (1904-
1970)], son of R. Aaron TEITLEBAUM [son-in-law of R. Moshe Yehoshua
HAGER, who is the great-uncle of the bride of Menachem BREYER listed
above], oldest son of R. Moshe TEITLEBAUM, Satmar Rebbe. Anyone who
can figure out the terms for how all these people are related to one
another deserves some kind of award.

Also mentioned R. Elimelech LOWRY [son-in-law of R. Naftali Zvi
LABIN], son of R. Meshulem Feish LOWRY, son of R. Elimelech LOWRY
(d. 1943).

Coming to America: R. Mordechai Yisocher Ber LEIFER (married Rachel
LIEBES), the Pittsburger Rebbe of Ashdod, son of R. Avrohom Abba LEIFER
(1916-1990), son of R. Yoseph LEIFER (1891-1966). According to The
Unbroken Chain, Yoseph LEIFER is the son of R. Issachar Dov Bertche
LEIFER (1848-1906), son of R. Mordechai LEIFER of Nadvorna (1825-95),
son of R. Issachar Dov Bertche LEIFER of Nadvorna (d. 3 Elul, 1848) son
of R. Isaac LEIFER of Kalush (1770-1840) [the brother of R. Meir'l of
Premishlan], son of R. Aaron Aryeh Lieb, son of R. Meir the Great of
Premishlan.

Machberes also notes a correction which was caught by some attentive
RavSiggers: The children of R. Moshe BICK (1911-1997) are: R. Shaul
Yesocher Dov Ber BICK, R. Avrohom Yehoshua Heschel BICK, Chana (married
R. Yitzchok SPIEGAL), Rivka Devora (married R. Chaim Elazar FRIEDMAN),
and R. Yitzchok Meshulem Nosson BICK, zt"l.

The Jewish Press is also printing a terrific 7-part series of the life
of an early frontier rabbi, R. Binyomin PAPERMEISTER (1860-1934).

Larry Tauber

Dear RavSiggers:

from the Janaury 9 Machberes column:

Mentioned is R. Ephraim ROSEN [son-in-law of R. Shaul Yedidya Elazar
TAUB], son of R. Mordechai ROSEN (1881-1939) [married Sara BELICH], son
of R. Meir Arik (1856-1925).

Last week noted the passing of R. Meshulem Syshe HESCHEL and his
ancestry. His daughter Shoshana's and her husband's, R. Nochem Dov
Ber BREYER [who Perets Mett correctly noted is the Boyaner Rebbe,
and is the son-in-law of R. Sholom FRIEDMAN (1890-1971)], son (name
not given but I am informed by a source it may be Menachem) married
the daughter of R. Yisroel Eliezer ADLER [son-in-law of R. Moshe
ERNSTER, son-in- law of R. Chaim Mayer HAGER], son of R. Chaim
ADLER, also a son-in-law of R. Chaim Mayer HAGER (1887-1972).

Yoel GLANTZ, son of R. Yechezkel Shraga GLANTZ [son-in-law of
R. Bertzie LEIFER [who according to my research married Saral, the
daughter of R. Meir David STEINMETZ, son of R. Nachman STEINMETZ,
a descendent of the TAZ]. R. Bertzie LEIFER is a descendent of
R. Meir the Great of Premishlan (see below and check the Unbroken
Chain and Meir Wunder's Meorei Galicia), son of R. Yosef Chaim
GLANTZ, married Blimi, daughter of R. Menachem Mendel TEITLEBAUM
[son-in-law of R. Dovid Dov Berish Meisels (son-in-law of R. Moshe
TEITLEBAUM, Satmar Rebbe), son of R. Zvi Hirsch MEISELS (1904-
1970)], son of R. Aaron TEITLEBAUM [son-in-law of R. Moshe Yehoshua
HAGER, who is the great-uncle of the bride of Menachem BREYER listed
above], oldest son of R. Moshe TEITLEBAUM, Satmar Rebbe. Anyone who
can figure out the terms for how all these people are related to one
another deserves some kind of award.

Also mentioned R. Elimelech LOWRY [son-in-law of R. Naftali Zvi
LABIN], son of R. Meshulem Feish LOWRY, son of R. Elimelech LOWRY
(d. 1943).

Coming to America: R. Mordechai Yisocher Ber LEIFER (married Rachel
LIEBES), the Pittsburger Rebbe of Ashdod, son of R. Avrohom Abba LEIFER
(1916-1990), son of R. Yoseph LEIFER (1891-1966). According to The
Unbroken Chain, Yoseph LEIFER is the son of R. Issachar Dov Bertche
LEIFER (1848-1906), son of R. Mordechai LEIFER of Nadvorna (1825-95),
son of R. Issachar Dov Bertche LEIFER of Nadvorna (d. 3 Elul, 1848) son
of R. Isaac LEIFER of Kalush (1770-1840) [the brother of R. Meir'l of
Premishlan], son of R. Aaron Aryeh Lieb, son of R. Meir the Great of
Premishlan.

Machberes also notes a correction which was caught by some attentive
RavSiggers: The children of R. Moshe BICK (1911-1997) are: R. Shaul
Yesocher Dov Ber BICK, R. Avrohom Yehoshua Heschel BICK, Chana (married
R. Yitzchok SPIEGAL), Rivka Devora (married R. Chaim Elazar FRIEDMAN),
and R. Yitzchok Meshulem Nosson BICK, zt"l.

The Jewish Press is also printing a terrific 7-part series of the life
of an early frontier rabbi, R. Binyomin PAPERMEISTER (1860-1934).

Larry Tauber

One set of my fourth great-grandparents were:

Hirsch Moses BAYERSDORFER 1746 Baiersdorf - 22 April 1830 Forchheim,
cut-goods trader and pedlar, married to Gressle Baer LEVI about 1767
Baiersdorf - 3 November 1833 Forchheim. Hirsch received Schutz for
Forchheim on 11 August 1775. Gressle's birth family adopted the name RAU
after she was married. The RAUs of Baiersdorf will be the subject of a
subsequent message.

I am, of course, very much interested in information on Hirsch's ancestors.
I add that Gressle was Hirsch Moses's second wife. His first wife was named
Hanna Mayer. Hirsch was the third husband of Hanna. If there were any
children >from Hirsch's first marriage, I am unaware of them.

The known children of Hirsch and Gressle were:

1) Regina (Reichele) Hirsch BAYERSDORFER about 1787 Forchheim - 13 August
1840 Memmelsdorf in Unterfranken, married to Marx (Markus, Mordche) Wolf
NORDHEIMER 1783 - 29 November 1860 Memmelsdorf, cloth trader. Regina and
Marx were my third great-grandparents.

2) Henlein BAYERSDORFER about 1791 Forchheim - 9 October 1820 Forth, married
to Kassel (Kessel) ROESNER about 1786 - 6 May 1860 Forth, cattle trader.
Kassel remarried to Ester BAYERSDORFER (#4)

3) Zirla BAYERSDORFER about 1794 Forchheim, married to ?, lived in Sulzbach

4) Ester BAYERSDORFER about 1795 Forchheim - 16 August 1878 Forth, married
20 February 1821 Forth to Kassel (Kessel) ROESNER about 1786 - 6 May 1860
Forth, cattle trader. Kassel's first wife was Henlein (#2).

5) Isaac Michael BAYERSDORFER 20 June 1800 Forchheim, cut goods trader in
store, received Forchheim Schutz on 18 May 1824, living in 1870 in US,
married 1 September 1824 Forchheim to Zerla ZEILLER about 1796 Forchheim - 2
December 1874 Forchheim

6) Ella (Elonora) BAYERSDORFER about 1808 Forchheim, married 27 June 1839
Forth to Henoch EHRLICH Forth

7) Maier BAYERSDORFER 15 February 1810 Forchheim - 11 March 1810 Forchheim

8) Caroline BAYERSDORFER 29 September 1811 Forchheim - 21 August 1813 Forchheim

I have varying amounts of data on the various branches and would like to add
to it. I am especially interested in identifying #3 Zirla in Sulzbach
(Oberpfalz).

Ralph BAER Washington, DC RalphNBaer@aol.com

One set of my fourth great-grandparents were:

Hirsch Moses BAYERSDORFER 1746 Baiersdorf - 22 April 1830 Forchheim,
cut-goods trader and pedlar, married to Gressle Baer LEVI about 1767
Baiersdorf - 3 November 1833 Forchheim. Hirsch received Schutz for
Forchheim on 11 August 1775. Gressle's birth family adopted the name RAU
after she was married. The RAUs of Baiersdorf will be the subject of a
subsequent message.

I am, of course, very much interested in information on Hirsch's ancestors.
I add that Gressle was Hirsch Moses's second wife. His first wife was named
Hanna Mayer. Hirsch was the third husband of Hanna. If there were any
children >from Hirsch's first marriage, I am unaware of them.

The known children of Hirsch and Gressle were:

1) Regina (Reichele) Hirsch BAYERSDORFER about 1787 Forchheim - 13 August
1840 Memmelsdorf in Unterfranken, married to Marx (Markus, Mordche) Wolf
NORDHEIMER 1783 - 29 November 1860 Memmelsdorf, cloth trader. Regina and
Marx were my third great-grandparents.

2) Henlein BAYERSDORFER about 1791 Forchheim - 9 October 1820 Forth, married
to Kassel (Kessel) ROESNER about 1786 - 6 May 1860 Forth, cattle trader.
Kassel remarried to Ester BAYERSDORFER (#4)

3) Zirla BAYERSDORFER about 1794 Forchheim, married to ?, lived in Sulzbach

4) Ester BAYERSDORFER about 1795 Forchheim - 16 August 1878 Forth, married
20 February 1821 Forth to Kassel (Kessel) ROESNER about 1786 - 6 May 1860
Forth, cattle trader. Kassel's first wife was Henlein (#2).

5) Isaac Michael BAYERSDORFER 20 June 1800 Forchheim, cut goods trader in
store, received Forchheim Schutz on 18 May 1824, living in 1870 in US,
married 1 September 1824 Forchheim to Zerla ZEILLER about 1796 Forchheim - 2
December 1874 Forchheim

6) Ella (Elonora) BAYERSDORFER about 1808 Forchheim, married 27 June 1839
Forth to Henoch EHRLICH Forth

7) Maier BAYERSDORFER 15 February 1810 Forchheim - 11 March 1810 Forchheim

8) Caroline BAYERSDORFER 29 September 1811 Forchheim - 21 August 1813 Forchheim

I have varying amounts of data on the various branches and would like to add
to it. I am especially interested in identifying #3 Zirla in Sulzbach
(Oberpfalz).

Ralph BAER Washington, DC RalphNBaer@aol.com

I am having trouble distinguishing between Gersig and Lyris List Managr, so
please post this wherever it belongs. [See MOD NOTE below]

Does anyone have details about the repatriation of Dutch and French
survivors of "The Lost Transport" >from Troebitz (Russioan zone) in June
1945? I am particularly interested in the identy of U.S. Army unit involved
in the mission.

Robert Wolf New Orleans, LA wolfnola@bellsouth.net

Re: "I am having trouble distinguishing between Gersig
and Lyris List Managr, so please post this wherever it belongs." ----->

JewishGen rules prohibit anyone >from posting a message to any Discussion Group
other than the writer of the message himself. List Moderators will not forword
messages to other lists.

Mr. Wolf's question should probably be posted to the JewishGen Discussion Group
(JGDG) rather than or in addition to the GerSig Forum.

The JGDG is an open list. Anyone can send messages to that Forum. Any question
or comment regarding Jewish Genealogy research can be posted there if it meets
the list requirements. More information about the JGDG is easy to find on the
JewishGen home page. The URL is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm

The differences between the JGDG and the GerSig Forum (or GerSig Discussion Group)
are:

1. The GerSig Forum is a semi-private discussion group.
To post a message to the GerSig Forum you must be a GerSig member / subscriber.
2. The GerSig Forum accepts only messages relating to German Jewish Genealogy.
("German" defined as German speaking areas of the world or families originating
in such places.
3. The JGDG is a public list. Anyone can read the list by subscribing to it.
or through the Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.jewish.
4. Archived messages >from the JGDG are searchable via:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop

To search the GerSig Archives you must use a different URL:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop

I am having trouble distinguishing between Gersig and Lyris List Managr, so
please post this wherever it belongs. [See MOD NOTE below]

Does anyone have details about the repatriation of Dutch and French
survivors of "The Lost Transport" >from Troebitz (Russioan zone) in June
1945? I am particularly interested in the identy of U.S. Army unit involved
in the mission.

Robert Wolf New Orleans, LA wolfnola@bellsouth.net

Re: "I am having trouble distinguishing between Gersig
and Lyris List Managr, so please post this wherever it belongs." ----->

JewishGen rules prohibit anyone >from posting a message to any Discussion Group
other than the writer of the message himself. List Moderators will not forword
messages to other lists.

Mr. Wolf's question should probably be posted to the JewishGen Discussion Group
(JGDG) rather than or in addition to the GerSig Forum.

The JGDG is an open list. Anyone can send messages to that Forum. Any question
or comment regarding Jewish Genealogy research can be posted there if it meets
the list requirements. More information about the JGDG is easy to find on the
JewishGen home page. The URL is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/DiscussionGroup.htm

The differences between the JGDG and the GerSig Forum (or GerSig Discussion Group)
are:

1. The GerSig Forum is a semi-private discussion group.
To post a message to the GerSig Forum you must be a GerSig member / subscriber.
2. The GerSig Forum accepts only messages relating to German Jewish Genealogy.
("German" defined as German speaking areas of the world or families originating
in such places.
3. The JGDG is a public list. Anyone can read the list by subscribing to it.
or through the Usenet newsgroup soc.genealogy.jewish.
4. Archived messages >from the JGDG are searchable via:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop

To search the GerSig Archives you must use a different URL:

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~sigspop

Hi

I am in need of help! Eighteen months ago I tried to find out about
the FRYDGAJMs (FREIDHEIMs). They were definitely in Lublin in the
1880s - 1920s. I was told by my family that they were a well known
rabbinical family, but I could find no information about them.
Through birth and marriage records, I know that they were in Lublin
in that period, yet I don't know much else. Recently I have been
contacted by another FRYDGAJM descendent that has given me renewed
hope!

In memoires an Israeli man who died within the last couple of years
- married in the 1920s in Lublin born in Pulawy. He married into
the FRYDGAJM family and says his father-in-law sat him down showing
him that he was the 26th generation of the line. The "future"
father-in-law was impressing on him the fact that he was marrying
into a very important family. This story gels with mine - and many
of the facts are similar. My aunt and uncle born in Kazimierz Dolny
remember their grandmother Rivka nee FRYDGAJM as being a very
refined well-bred lady of a very religious family, the father being
a well known rabbi.

Can anyone give any advice???

Thank You

Ann Wine
Sydney, Australia

Hi

I am in need of help! Eighteen months ago I tried to find out about
the FRYDGAJMs (FREIDHEIMs). They were definitely in Lublin in the
1880s - 1920s. I was told by my family that they were a well known
rabbinical family, but I could find no information about them.
Through birth and marriage records, I know that they were in Lublin
in that period, yet I don't know much else. Recently I have been
contacted by another FRYDGAJM descendent that has given me renewed
hope!

In memoires an Israeli man who died within the last couple of years
- married in the 1920s in Lublin born in Pulawy. He married into
the FRYDGAJM family and says his father-in-law sat him down showing
him that he was the 26th generation of the line. The "future"
father-in-law was impressing on him the fact that he was marrying
into a very important family. This story gels with mine - and many
of the facts are similar. My aunt and uncle born in Kazimierz Dolny
remember their grandmother Rivka nee FRYDGAJM as being a very
refined well-bred lady of a very religious family, the father being
a well known rabbi.

Can anyone give any advice???

Thank You

Ann Wine
Sydney, Australia

Has any one tried to locate list of members >from the various Bialystok
shuls that existed 1890-1920 on the lower east side of Manhattan? Or for
that matter other Bialystoker organizations >from those years?

Mordechai Fine
Researching FINE, SOLOWITZ,HAMMER,BRAVERMAN,METTER

Has any one tried to locate list of members >from the various Bialystok
shuls that existed 1890-1920 on the lower east side of Manhattan? Or for
that matter other Bialystoker organizations >from those years?

Mordechai Fine
Researching FINE, SOLOWITZ,HAMMER,BRAVERMAN,METTER

If you're like me, you've probably saved Yarmulkas >from every Bar/Bat
Mitzvah and Wedding for the last 25+ years. You're also like me if
you clean out your dresser every 25 years. Well, don't dispose of
those valuable Kippot! The inscriptions of names, dates and places
on the underside will save you lots of work! So, don't wait 25 years
- check out those Kippot right now for some great family history
information.

Bruce Reisch
Geneva, New York

If you're like me, you've probably saved Yarmulkas >from every Bar/Bat
Mitzvah and Wedding for the last 25+ years. You're also like me if
you clean out your dresser every 25 years. Well, don't dispose of
those valuable Kippot! The inscriptions of names, dates and places
on the underside will save you lots of work! So, don't wait 25 years
- check out those Kippot right now for some great family history
information.

Bruce Reisch
Geneva, New York

The statement that

"During the Holocaust, they took the names away of the
people, each with their own soul, and they put numbers on their arms. The
job of a Jewish genealogist is to replace those numbers and give them back
their names"

was first uttered by Arthur Kurzweil at the banquet speech of
the International Seminar on Jewish Genealogy held in Washington, DC, on
June 28, 1995. The entire speech brought down the house.
The theme of the speech was that Jewish genealogy is the act of performing
mitzvahs.

The exact quote was:

"Who more than we understands the mystery and the importance in Jewish
tradition of the power of names, of not just to jumble everybody together,
but that everybody is important? The fact of six million Jews being killed
during the Holocaust is unfathomable to us, but when we have the specific
names of the people in our families.... I don't know what to do with the
Holocaust. Most people in the world don't know quite what to do with the
Holocaust. But I think we genealogists have found out what to do with the
Holocaust. We remember names. When the Nazis rounded us up, they took away
our names and they gave us numbers. What we are involved with doing is
taking away the numbers and giving them back their names."

I still get emotional about that statement. The speech was reprinted in the
Fall 1995 issue of AVOTAYNU. I felt so strongly about the speech, that it is
the Foreword of the soon-to-be-published "Avotaynu Guide to Jewish Genealogy."

Gary Mokotoff Northern New Jersey garymokotoff@optonline.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Thank you Gary. The Kurzweil quote is used on at least 4 web
pages but none of them gives its source. One website incorrectly attributes
the quote to Raffi Gruber. Another GerSig member was kind enough to send me
a text of the 1995 speech. Kurzweil writes about Jewish Genealogy as a mitzvah
in Chapter 6 of the revised edition of his book ">from Generation to Generation".

He gave a similar talk at the opening session of the 1998 Conference
in Los Angeles. I purchased an audiotape recording of the speech and have
listened to it many times but still find it both inspiring and entertaining.
It does NOT include the "give them back their names" statement, though.
My source was:

Repeat Performance
2911 Crabapple Lane
Hobart, IN 46342 TEL: (219)-465-1234

John Paul Lowens, GerSig MODERATOR1

The statement that

"During the Holocaust, they took the names away of the
people, each with their own soul, and they put numbers on their arms. The
job of a Jewish genealogist is to replace those numbers and give them back
their names"

was first uttered by Arthur Kurzweil at the banquet speech of
the International Seminar on Jewish Genealogy held in Washington, DC, on
June 28, 1995. The entire speech brought down the house.
The theme of the speech was that Jewish genealogy is the act of performing
mitzvahs.

The exact quote was:

"Who more than we understands the mystery and the importance in Jewish
tradition of the power of names, of not just to jumble everybody together,
but that everybody is important? The fact of six million Jews being killed
during the Holocaust is unfathomable to us, but when we have the specific
names of the people in our families.... I don't know what to do with the
Holocaust. Most people in the world don't know quite what to do with the
Holocaust. But I think we genealogists have found out what to do with the
Holocaust. We remember names. When the Nazis rounded us up, they took away
our names and they gave us numbers. What we are involved with doing is
taking away the numbers and giving them back their names."

I still get emotional about that statement. The speech was reprinted in the
Fall 1995 issue of AVOTAYNU. I felt so strongly about the speech, that it is
the Foreword of the soon-to-be-published "Avotaynu Guide to Jewish Genealogy."

Gary Mokotoff Northern New Jersey garymokotoff@optonline.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Thank you Gary. The Kurzweil quote is used on at least 4 web
pages but none of them gives its source. One website incorrectly attributes
the quote to Raffi Gruber. Another GerSig member was kind enough to send me
a text of the 1995 speech. Kurzweil writes about Jewish Genealogy as a mitzvah
in Chapter 6 of the revised edition of his book ">from Generation to Generation".

He gave a similar talk at the opening session of the 1998 Conference
in Los Angeles. I purchased an audiotape recording of the speech and have
listened to it many times but still find it both inspiring and entertaining.
It does NOT include the "give them back their names" statement, though.
My source was:

Repeat Performance
2911 Crabapple Lane
Hobart, IN 46342 TEL: (219)-465-1234

John Paul Lowens, GerSig MODERATOR1

I've posted this in the past but I'll try again.

I received a family tree compiled by several old time Jerusalem
families (ZEIVELD and PAPIRNE), a family tree, very similiar to ours
in previous generations, which has in the center the person of Reb
Yisrael ben Yosef of Ostraha, who was a descendant of both the
MaHaRaL and the MaHaRSHaL.

This Yisrael is noted in the tree as a grandson and great grandson
of Rabbis Arieh Leib and his father Shmuel, who were Rabbis of
Kremenetz several centuries ago. They were descendants of Reb Efraim
Fischel of Ludmir, who I understand was a Parnas of the Vaad Arba
Aratzot, and of the "Smichus Chachamim", Reb Naftali Katz,
greatgrandson of the MaHaRaL.

Till Yisrael of Ostraha is detailed in several published works
(Wunder's, Rosenstein's, and probably others).

According to these unpublished (as far as I know) family trees,
this Reb Yisrael married his son Yosef and grandson Naftali to
the families of the Admorim of Lechowitz and Karlin.

My interest in this tree are Yisrael's children other than Yosef and
Naftali. I would be happy to hear >from anyone who has details
(possibly in the book "Mazkeret Gedolei Ostraha" or personal
knowledge of the Lechowitz and Karlin dynasties).

My immediate ancestral names which are supposedly descendants of
Yisrael are ROSENBAUM, SCHECHTER (incl. R' Yacov Meir SCHECHTER
leader of the world Breslev union).

Thank you.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel

I've posted this in the past but I'll try again.

I received a family tree compiled by several old time Jerusalem
families (ZEIVELD and PAPIRNE), a family tree, very similiar to ours
in previous generations, which has in the center the person of Reb
Yisrael ben Yosef of Ostraha, who was a descendant of both the
MaHaRaL and the MaHaRSHaL.

This Yisrael is noted in the tree as a grandson and great grandson
of Rabbis Arieh Leib and his father Shmuel, who were Rabbis of
Kremenetz several centuries ago. They were descendants of Reb Efraim
Fischel of Ludmir, who I understand was a Parnas of the Vaad Arba
Aratzot, and of the "Smichus Chachamim", Reb Naftali Katz,
greatgrandson of the MaHaRaL.

Till Yisrael of Ostraha is detailed in several published works
(Wunder's, Rosenstein's, and probably others).

According to these unpublished (as far as I know) family trees,
this Reb Yisrael married his son Yosef and grandson Naftali to
the families of the Admorim of Lechowitz and Karlin.

My interest in this tree are Yisrael's children other than Yosef and
Naftali. I would be happy to hear >from anyone who has details
(possibly in the book "Mazkeret Gedolei Ostraha" or personal
knowledge of the Lechowitz and Karlin dynasties).

My immediate ancestral names which are supposedly descendants of
Yisrael are ROSENBAUM, SCHECHTER (incl. R' Yacov Meir SCHECHTER
leader of the world Breslev union).

Thank you.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel