Date   

Re: Repeat marriage in the US? #general

Jeff Malka <JeffMalka@...>
 

No, both marriages were religious marriages by rabbis. The one in the old
country was in the bride's home shtetl. Then the groom - who had come to the
US 6 years earlier - remarried the same bride when she came over a year
later.

I suspect it may be that they had no way to prove in the US that they were
married and therefore paid a rabbi to redo it in NY to simplify matters.
Or, he may have married her in the shtetl so as to get her travel papers to
come to the US, though I do not know if these were needed in 1906-7 or
simply just went back to "find a wife" and arrange for her coming over. Or
just that the religious marriage in the shtetl may have had no civil
registration component, hence the need to remarry in the US.

But I do not know and it was a surprise to find the 2 marriages for the same
people, listing the same parents, etc at 2 different dates and places. So I
was wondering if others had come across this.

(Better 2 marriages than "none" <grin>)

Jeff Malka

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally M. Bruckheimer" <sallybru@wdcunet.net>
To: <JeffMalka@orthohelp.com>; "jewishgen" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Repeat marriage in the US?

Maybe they 'eloped' and married civilly but not religiously in Europe. When
they got to the US, they could then marry religiously without their parents
interference. Marriages were usually arranged in Europe at that time, and
if might have been 'committed' to marry other people but didn't want to.
This would have been unusual but explains the two records.

The US would have recognized them as married, but the Jewish community might
not have. Many people had no papers and the government generally took
people's words for such things. Most likely they remarried to clear their
conscience-after all, outside their hometown(s), who would know that they
weren't married religiously? In New York, only someone who knew of them
from their hometown might know the truth-and might think that they had
remarried religiously even if they hadn't.

Sally Bruckheimer
Harrison, NY

"Could they have been married in the old country and then re-married again in
the US to legitimize the marriage in the US? Is this common? Would one have
been a proxy marriage - if there is such a thing? I am trying to figure it
out and those that would know are dead."


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Repeat marriage in the US? #general

Jeff Malka <JeffMalka@...>
 

No, both marriages were religious marriages by rabbis. The one in the old
country was in the bride's home shtetl. Then the groom - who had come to the
US 6 years earlier - remarried the same bride when she came over a year
later.

I suspect it may be that they had no way to prove in the US that they were
married and therefore paid a rabbi to redo it in NY to simplify matters.
Or, he may have married her in the shtetl so as to get her travel papers to
come to the US, though I do not know if these were needed in 1906-7 or
simply just went back to "find a wife" and arrange for her coming over. Or
just that the religious marriage in the shtetl may have had no civil
registration component, hence the need to remarry in the US.

But I do not know and it was a surprise to find the 2 marriages for the same
people, listing the same parents, etc at 2 different dates and places. So I
was wondering if others had come across this.

(Better 2 marriages than "none" <grin>)

Jeff Malka

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally M. Bruckheimer" <sallybru@wdcunet.net>
To: <JeffMalka@orthohelp.com>; "jewishgen" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Repeat marriage in the US?

Maybe they 'eloped' and married civilly but not religiously in Europe. When
they got to the US, they could then marry religiously without their parents
interference. Marriages were usually arranged in Europe at that time, and
if might have been 'committed' to marry other people but didn't want to.
This would have been unusual but explains the two records.

The US would have recognized them as married, but the Jewish community might
not have. Many people had no papers and the government generally took
people's words for such things. Most likely they remarried to clear their
conscience-after all, outside their hometown(s), who would know that they
weren't married religiously? In New York, only someone who knew of them
from their hometown might know the truth-and might think that they had
remarried religiously even if they hadn't.

Sally Bruckheimer
Harrison, NY

"Could they have been married in the old country and then re-married again in
the US to legitimize the marriage in the US? Is this common? Would one have
been a proxy marriage - if there is such a thing? I am trying to figure it
out and those that would know are dead."


Jewish Community in Managua, Nicaragua? #general

sytech@...
 

Hi,

I have been through most of Central America and have visited Jewish
communities there.

I will be traveling to Nicaragua in February and can't find anything
about a Jewish Community in Managua even though I have heard that there
is one there.

Can anyone advise me where I might get some information?

Thanks,

Sy Gelbard

--
Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish Community in Managua, Nicaragua? #general

sytech@...
 

Hi,

I have been through most of Central America and have visited Jewish
communities there.

I will be traveling to Nicaragua in February and can't find anything
about a Jewish Community in Managua even though I have heard that there
is one there.

Can anyone advise me where I might get some information?

Thanks,

Sy Gelbard

--
Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com


Re: Repeat marriage in the US? #general

Stan Goodman <safeqSPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:22:25 UTC, JeffMalka@orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka)
opined:
Yes, but in my case both marriages were religious because one was recorded
in the synagogue records in the old town and the second one in the US was
listed in the NY records as having been performed by a rabbi in a small
lower east side synagogue. No children were born before a year after the
second marriage.
To say that the second marriage was "religious" is aside >from the point. As
you say, it was "listed" in the NY records; actually it was *certified*, and
the difference is not trivial, for the certification is the act of marriage,
as far as the State is concerned, which is why it is called a "Marriage
Certificate" -- it *certifies* that the couple is wed. The religious ceremony
takes place after the marriage is already certified civilly, and therefore
already recognized.

Note the difference between the above sequence and that evident >from
*all* the Russian and other European documents which are so often
discussed in this forum. If you read those documents carefully, what
they are saying is that witnesses came to the registrar *after* a
marriage had been performed by a clergyman, and described the
details to the civil official, who had no knowledge of them previously.

The difference is crucial, because in the Russian case, the marriage
exists first, and is registered (i.e. listed) only later, perhaps days after
being performed by the clergyman is registered.

What happened in the case of your relatives, one cannot know. Perhaps the
registration was never accomplished, which was not infrequently the case.
But if that was so, the bride had her ktuba, which is evidence of her
marriage. If the couple needed to show some civil authority that they were
married, it was not difficult to have the ktuba translated to English. I
cannot fathom why they would have felt it necessary to marry again; I am
also not sure what genealogical significance is in the fact; they were,
after all, married the first time. But it is also not unknown for elderly
chaps to feel it necessary go through a touching "Bar Mitzva" ceremony;
perhaps the motivation is similar.

--- Original Message ---
From: "Sara" <esterbrook@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Repeat marriage in the US?

My grandparents were originally married in Poland and then were remarried
civilly when they arrived in the U.S. I think it was common as religious
ceremonies were done but not necessarily then filed/recorded civilly.

Sara R. Rice
Palos Verdes Estates, CA
Searching: HERSCHLIKOWICZ, WORONOWICZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Malka" <JeffMalka@orthohelp.com>

Is it common for a couple married in the old country to re-marry again in
the US?
---
mailto:JeffMalka@orthohelp.com
--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please remove the CAPITAL LETTERS >from my address in order to send me email.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Repeat marriage in the US? #general

Stan Goodman <safeqSPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:22:25 UTC, JeffMalka@orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka)
opined:
Yes, but in my case both marriages were religious because one was recorded
in the synagogue records in the old town and the second one in the US was
listed in the NY records as having been performed by a rabbi in a small
lower east side synagogue. No children were born before a year after the
second marriage.
To say that the second marriage was "religious" is aside >from the point. As
you say, it was "listed" in the NY records; actually it was *certified*, and
the difference is not trivial, for the certification is the act of marriage,
as far as the State is concerned, which is why it is called a "Marriage
Certificate" -- it *certifies* that the couple is wed. The religious ceremony
takes place after the marriage is already certified civilly, and therefore
already recognized.

Note the difference between the above sequence and that evident >from
*all* the Russian and other European documents which are so often
discussed in this forum. If you read those documents carefully, what
they are saying is that witnesses came to the registrar *after* a
marriage had been performed by a clergyman, and described the
details to the civil official, who had no knowledge of them previously.

The difference is crucial, because in the Russian case, the marriage
exists first, and is registered (i.e. listed) only later, perhaps days after
being performed by the clergyman is registered.

What happened in the case of your relatives, one cannot know. Perhaps the
registration was never accomplished, which was not infrequently the case.
But if that was so, the bride had her ktuba, which is evidence of her
marriage. If the couple needed to show some civil authority that they were
married, it was not difficult to have the ktuba translated to English. I
cannot fathom why they would have felt it necessary to marry again; I am
also not sure what genealogical significance is in the fact; they were,
after all, married the first time. But it is also not unknown for elderly
chaps to feel it necessary go through a touching "Bar Mitzva" ceremony;
perhaps the motivation is similar.

--- Original Message ---
From: "Sara" <esterbrook@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Repeat marriage in the US?

My grandparents were originally married in Poland and then were remarried
civilly when they arrived in the U.S. I think it was common as religious
ceremonies were done but not necessarily then filed/recorded civilly.

Sara R. Rice
Palos Verdes Estates, CA
Searching: HERSCHLIKOWICZ, WORONOWICZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Malka" <JeffMalka@orthohelp.com>

Is it common for a couple married in the old country to re-marry again in
the US?
---
mailto:JeffMalka@orthohelp.com
--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
Please remove the CAPITAL LETTERS >from my address in order to send me email.


Sprinze KOENIGSBUCH (nee SATZ or KALB) #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
Just discovered at the Red Cross microfilms at Yad
Vashem a card of Sprinze Koenigsbuch b.1902 her
parents were Jakob and Hinda Satz. She was married to
Bernard Baruch Koenigsbuch who was born in 1898.
On her card there is also a mention of the name Kalb
which somehow may relate to her parents. This is the
first time that I come across Bernard Baruch
Koenigsbuch. Since it is very rare surname i suspect
he also belongs to our tribe >from Brzesko.
Please respond privately if Sprintze Satz or Kalb
means anything to you. JGFF has few listings of
researchers who are seeking Satz or Kalb.
Jacob Rosen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Sprinze KOENIGSBUCH (nee SATZ or KALB) #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
Just discovered at the Red Cross microfilms at Yad
Vashem a card of Sprinze Koenigsbuch b.1902 her
parents were Jakob and Hinda Satz. She was married to
Bernard Baruch Koenigsbuch who was born in 1898.
On her card there is also a mention of the name Kalb
which somehow may relate to her parents. This is the
first time that I come across Bernard Baruch
Koenigsbuch. Since it is very rare surname i suspect
he also belongs to our tribe >from Brzesko.
Please respond privately if Sprintze Satz or Kalb
means anything to you. JGFF has few listings of
researchers who are seeking Satz or Kalb.
Jacob Rosen


SHERMAN Eastern Europe/Holocaust #general

Rosalind
 

Dear Genners,
I am trying to find Abraham Isaac Sherman whose marriage and 5 children
were registered between 1901 to 1912 in NovoAlexandrovsk.
I believe they probably were lost in the Holocaust btu have been so far
found their names.
Can anyone "lay claim to" these people
Abraham Isaac SHERMAN born about 1880
Wife Feiga Zelde bat Chonon GRINBERG
Children
Mariashe
Slova
Ilia
Leib and Chaim
Granddaughter Channa

Thanks in anticipation
Ros Romem
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SHERMAN Eastern Europe/Holocaust #general

Rosalind
 

Dear Genners,
I am trying to find Abraham Isaac Sherman whose marriage and 5 children
were registered between 1901 to 1912 in NovoAlexandrovsk.
I believe they probably were lost in the Holocaust btu have been so far
found their names.
Can anyone "lay claim to" these people
Abraham Isaac SHERMAN born about 1880
Wife Feiga Zelde bat Chonon GRINBERG
Children
Mariashe
Slova
Ilia
Leib and Chaim
Granddaughter Channa

Thanks in anticipation
Ros Romem
Jerusalem


the International Commission on Holocaust Era Insurance Claims #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
I would recommend to those of you who are searching
roots in Germany or about people who left Poland
(Galicia )to Germany,Austria,France,Belgium and the
Netherlands to check the website of the above
mentioned organization. The website is www.icheic.org
The search is slightly complicated while dealing with
German umlauts but as experienced Genners I am
confident that you'll be able to manipulate it. If you
are lucky it might show the name of the insured,his
birth year and sometimes his spouse.The ICHEIC
responds quickly to initial queries. I managed to
locate a relative and then to inform his grandson
about the insurance policy which he might claim.
I presume the same is true also about bank accounts.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen the International Commission on Holocaust Era Insurance Claims #general

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

Dear Genners,
I would recommend to those of you who are searching
roots in Germany or about people who left Poland
(Galicia )to Germany,Austria,France,Belgium and the
Netherlands to check the website of the above
mentioned organization. The website is www.icheic.org
The search is slightly complicated while dealing with
German umlauts but as experienced Genners I am
confident that you'll be able to manipulate it. If you
are lucky it might show the name of the insured,his
birth year and sometimes his spouse.The ICHEIC
responds quickly to initial queries. I managed to
locate a relative and then to inform his grandson
about the insurance policy which he might claim.
I presume the same is true also about bank accounts.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem


Jacob BECKER and family #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

After months of research, I have gone back another generation
to the first cousin of my grandfather David Glazer or Glasser
(b. Galosshoff). I have found Jacob Becker, wife Rachel and
son Frank Becker having emigrated >from Chomsk or Bereza, Russia
in 1897 to NYC , then moving to Toronto, Canada, and then in
1925 emigrating to Miami Beach.

Jacob Becker was a builder and property owner having founded the
Congregation Beth Jacob (the first synagogue in Miami Beach)in 1929
And was the first President.

His father was Boroch Becker and mother Rachel Kleinman Becker. Jacob's
Brothers were David Becker of Brooklyn and Miami Beach and Israel and
Isadore Becker of Brooklyn, and sisters Sarah Becker Schafer and Hannah
Becker Poldy or Springfield, MA.

Anyone having information or connections to this family, please advise.

Thank you.

Diane Glazer Jacobs
New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jacob BECKER and family #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

After months of research, I have gone back another generation
to the first cousin of my grandfather David Glazer or Glasser
(b. Galosshoff). I have found Jacob Becker, wife Rachel and
son Frank Becker having emigrated >from Chomsk or Bereza, Russia
in 1897 to NYC , then moving to Toronto, Canada, and then in
1925 emigrating to Miami Beach.

Jacob Becker was a builder and property owner having founded the
Congregation Beth Jacob (the first synagogue in Miami Beach)in 1929
And was the first President.

His father was Boroch Becker and mother Rachel Kleinman Becker. Jacob's
Brothers were David Becker of Brooklyn and Miami Beach and Israel and
Isadore Becker of Brooklyn, and sisters Sarah Becker Schafer and Hannah
Becker Poldy or Springfield, MA.

Anyone having information or connections to this family, please advise.

Thank you.

Diane Glazer Jacobs
New York


Difficult Surname Puzzle: HOYT #general

Mitch Stone <mitch@...>
 

For the last several years, I have been attempting to locate
immigration records for the branch of my family which took the surname
HOYT. They were >from Minsk, and according to census registers,
emigrated between 1903 and 1905.

I have searched every manner of variant for HOYT, soundex and otherwise
(literally hundreds) in the EIDB, and come up empty. As nearly as I can
tell, no other Jewish families have this surname, so possibly it was
fabricated after they arrived in the United States. Consequently, I
have also tried searching for given names only, but have not found a
matching family even by this laborious method. They all lived in New
York, so I have no reason to believe they passed through any
immigration center other than Ellis Island.

The only potential clue I have as to what the family name might have
been (assuming it was not made up entirely) is the phonetic
pronunciation recorded in two census registers: "Hoyd" and "Hoyet."

Any thoughts or leads would be most appreciated. Please respond
privately.

Thanks,

Mitch Stone
Researching: BREITSTEIN, BRAZINSKY, GUTERMAN/GOODMAN,
KESSLER, SEROTA, SANDERS, PERETZ, HOYT,
SIMON


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Difficult Surname Puzzle: HOYT #general

Mitch Stone <mitch@...>
 

For the last several years, I have been attempting to locate
immigration records for the branch of my family which took the surname
HOYT. They were >from Minsk, and according to census registers,
emigrated between 1903 and 1905.

I have searched every manner of variant for HOYT, soundex and otherwise
(literally hundreds) in the EIDB, and come up empty. As nearly as I can
tell, no other Jewish families have this surname, so possibly it was
fabricated after they arrived in the United States. Consequently, I
have also tried searching for given names only, but have not found a
matching family even by this laborious method. They all lived in New
York, so I have no reason to believe they passed through any
immigration center other than Ellis Island.

The only potential clue I have as to what the family name might have
been (assuming it was not made up entirely) is the phonetic
pronunciation recorded in two census registers: "Hoyd" and "Hoyet."

Any thoughts or leads would be most appreciated. Please respond
privately.

Thanks,

Mitch Stone
Researching: BREITSTEIN, BRAZINSKY, GUTERMAN/GOODMAN,
KESSLER, SEROTA, SANDERS, PERETZ, HOYT,
SIMON


TESCHNAUER #general

y_tadmor@...
 

Hi Siggers

I am searching after the descendants of:
Louis-Lajos Teschnauer, Paulin Teschnauer and Leo Teschnauer, childrens of
Adolf Teschnauer and Ettele ATLAS.
Arrived to U.S.A in 1906-1908.

Yitzhak Tadmor-Teschnauer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen TESCHNAUER #general

y_tadmor@...
 

Hi Siggers

I am searching after the descendants of:
Louis-Lajos Teschnauer, Paulin Teschnauer and Leo Teschnauer, childrens of
Adolf Teschnauer and Ettele ATLAS.
Arrived to U.S.A in 1906-1908.

Yitzhak Tadmor-Teschnauer


Re Stalin purge victims #general

Michael <mic-sp@...>
 

Shalom to all Genners,
You can find all names of Stalin victims and even to look to their folders
on the site www.memo.ru but a search only in Russian.

Michael Shpectorov
Researching SPECTOROV/SHPECTOROV (Nevel,Russia),BOGORAD and
AXELROD(Pustoshka,Russia).

MODERATOR NOTE: The site is in Russian, but has an English-language section at
http://www.memo.ru/eng/index.htm


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re Stalin purge victims #general

Michael <mic-sp@...>
 

Shalom to all Genners,
You can find all names of Stalin victims and even to look to their folders
on the site www.memo.ru but a search only in Russian.

Michael Shpectorov
Researching SPECTOROV/SHPECTOROV (Nevel,Russia),BOGORAD and
AXELROD(Pustoshka,Russia).

MODERATOR NOTE: The site is in Russian, but has an English-language section at
http://www.memo.ru/eng/index.htm