I have attempted to send messages to Aaron Roetenberg. I have received
rejections >from two apparently old E-mail addresses of his.
I believe that we may be researching the same family.

If you have information about how to contact Aaron, please send private
E-mail to me.

Thank you.
Jeff Miller
Brookeville, MD
SingingTM@aol.com

I have attempted to send messages to Aaron Roetenberg. I have received
rejections >from two apparently old E-mail addresses of his.
I believe that we may be researching the same family.

If you have information about how to contact Aaron, please send private
E-mail to me.

Thank you.
Jeff Miller
Brookeville, MD
SingingTM@aol.com

Hi All
I will introduce myself here as Judith, coming >from New Zealand.
I don't know if I am in the right mailing list, but I know someone will put
me on the right track. I am researching in Suwalki for the Surnames of
Rosenthal and Monne. The time period would be 1850's and earlier.
Thanks in advance
Regards
Judith Larsen

Hi All
I will introduce myself here as Judith, coming >from New Zealand.
I don't know if I am in the right mailing list, but I know someone will put
me on the right track. I am researching in Suwalki for the Surnames of
Rosenthal and Monne. The time period would be 1850's and earlier.
Thanks in advance
Regards
Judith Larsen

1. I have surveyed the Official Yad Vashem list of Destroyed Jewish
Communities with reference to the Bialystok region. I count 117 communities, many with only a few hundred Jews and not recorded in any
Yizkor book as far as the list indicates. (There are about 35 Yizkor books
for these communities, today.)

2. What amazes me is that some towns having between1000-2000 Jews are not
remembered. They must have had some vibrant Jewish community with that many people. Does anyone know if some do have Yizkor books or even memoirs? If so, this information is not in JewishGen's Yizkor book
database and they should be notified..

The towns are:

DLUGOSIODLO
KNYSZYN
LUNNA
ORLA
SKIDEL
STWISKI
TRZCIANE
WOLPA
ZALEWA

3. Are there possibly other towns BialyGen-ers are interested in that are
not included in the Official List >from Yad Vashem? I am compiling a list of Bialystok region towns in order to make my transliteration work >from Hebrew to English easier and would appreciate any town name contributions to add to my list..

lbendov@netvision.net.il

Avigdor Ben-Dov
Kedumim Israel
Researching: TYKOCIN, BIALYSTOK, LOMZA, SOKOLY, ZAMBROW, ZABLUDOW

1. I have surveyed the Official Yad Vashem list of Destroyed Jewish
Communities with reference to the Bialystok region. I count 117 communities, many with only a few hundred Jews and not recorded in any
Yizkor book as far as the list indicates. (There are about 35 Yizkor books
for these communities, today.)

2. What amazes me is that some towns having between1000-2000 Jews are not
remembered. They must have had some vibrant Jewish community with that many people. Does anyone know if some do have Yizkor books or even memoirs? If so, this information is not in JewishGen's Yizkor book
database and they should be notified..

The towns are:

DLUGOSIODLO
KNYSZYN
LUNNA
ORLA
SKIDEL
STWISKI
TRZCIANE
WOLPA
ZALEWA

3. Are there possibly other towns BialyGen-ers are interested in that are
not included in the Official List >from Yad Vashem? I am compiling a list of Bialystok region towns in order to make my transliteration work >from Hebrew to English easier and would appreciate any town name contributions to add to my list..

lbendov@netvision.net.il

Avigdor Ben-Dov
Kedumim Israel
Researching: TYKOCIN, BIALYSTOK, LOMZA, SOKOLY, ZAMBROW, ZABLUDOW

Tomasz Wisniewski, noted Bialystok journalist and Jewish
historian had provided us with a fantastic resource. At "A
Forgotten Odyssey" website [ http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ ]
is a group of Tomasz's collection of vintage photos and
postcards. At
http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_album
Name=album60 is a group of his albums that include photos and
postcards of towns that were in Bialystok Province in 1939. This
includes photos of towns in our BialyGen region:
Bialowieza
Bialystok
Bielsk Podlaski
Choroszcz
Goniadz
Grodek
Narewka (under N)
Suprasl (under S)
Siemiatyce

Plus other towns not in the BialyGen area: Grajewo, Kolno, Lomza,
Suwalki.

Also, under Bialystok Region are photos for Bielsk, Bransk,
Jedwabne, Korycin, Kuznica, Narewka, Orla, Sejny, Stawiski,
Szczuczyn, and Tykocin.

Please make sure to click on the photos as there are a number of
layers of photo exhibits.

I would like to thank Tomasz for allowing us access to his
collection both on this website and on the Bialystok Memorial
Website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/bialystok.htm.

Mark Halpern

Tomasz Wisniewski, noted Bialystok journalist and Jewish
historian had provided us with a fantastic resource. At "A
Forgotten Odyssey" website [ http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ ]
is a group of Tomasz's collection of vintage photos and
postcards. At
http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_album
Name=album60 is a group of his albums that include photos and
postcards of towns that were in Bialystok Province in 1939. This
includes photos of towns in our BialyGen region:
Bialowieza
Bialystok
Bielsk Podlaski
Choroszcz
Goniadz
Grodek
Narewka (under N)
Suprasl (under S)
Siemiatyce

Plus other towns not in the BialyGen area: Grajewo, Kolno, Lomza,
Suwalki.

Also, under Bialystok Region are photos for Bielsk, Bransk,
Jedwabne, Korycin, Kuznica, Narewka, Orla, Sejny, Stawiski,
Szczuczyn, and Tykocin.

Please make sure to click on the photos as there are a number of
layers of photo exhibits.

I would like to thank Tomasz for allowing us access to his
collection both on this website and on the Bialystok Memorial
Website at http://www.zchor.org/bialystok/bialystok.htm.

Mark Halpern

There was also an agricultural settlement/colony in Siberia, on the eastern
border of Russia, near Mongolia, called Birobijan (poor spelling). Jews
were sent there to solve "the Jewish problem" and to guard the eastern
front. Was this colony different than those on your very interesting
website?

Mimi Katz, Chicago

There was also an agricultural settlement/colony in Siberia, on the eastern
border of Russia, near Mongolia, called Birobijan (poor spelling). Jews
were sent there to solve "the Jewish problem" and to guard the eastern
front. Was this colony different than those on your very interesting
website?

Mimi Katz, Chicago

The WW1 started with the assination of archduke Franz Ferdinand in
Sarajevo on 28 June 1914 and ended 1918. In the Trianon treaty signed on
4. June 1920 Hungary lost substantial parts of the country. In the
bottom of this mail I give two articles which might give you some
detailed information. Trianon and the borders were and still are very
touchy and emotional questions.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

tom klein schrieb:

i think this is an interesting question, and i hope others in the group will add their thoughts/views.

between 1910 and 1920 there was world war 1, and some borders shifted, although i don't think a lot of territory changed hands >from hungary to austria, although i could be wrong. as far as i know, most of the border changes occurred around the perimeters, such as slovakia or transylvania,which were transferred to neighbouring countries like czechoslovakia or romania.

....... tom klein, toronto

"goldhammer" <goldhammer@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I have a question concerning place of birth on different census
years. In 1910 they listed Hungary, in 1920 Austria. Is this because
of shifting country lines?? If so, what region should I be
concentrating on locating information regarding this family?

About 10'500 articles can be found in the Internet about Hungary and Trianon, many of them treats the question very emotionally. Two articles >from the many thousend and one is with a card the following, may be you find them interesting.

http://www.imagesoft.net/hungary/hun101/fx010016.htm
Hungary's Nationalities Pre-Trianon

The inhabitants of what was left of Hungary numbered only 7.6 million in
a territory of 35,900 square miles. Rumania alone was granted 39,800
square miles, including Transylvania, or more than what was left to
Hungary. Czechoslovakia was given 23,800 square miles and Yugoslavia got
a similar slice, including Croatia, which had stood in partnership with
Hungary for 800 years. *
Even Austria was allotted 1,500 square miles of Western Hungary as a
ploy to poison relations between the two countries.
*
*
*
A Hungarian-Jewish alliance was formed.
Jewish self-identification as Hungarians was only partially motivated by
the advantages such declaration produced. A large segment of the Jewish
community enthusiastically and voluntarily submitted to the process of
Magyarization. Jews in Hungary spoke the Hungarian language, championed
the Hungarian culture, assimilated, intermarried and energetically
supported the objectives of Hungarian nationalism. This process of
Jewish acculturation was encouraged and rewarded by the Hungarian
establishment. In addition to offering badly needed numerical extension,
it also confirmed the claim of Hungarian cultural superiority. It could,
and did, serve as an example for the other minorities.


The URL bellow give a very detailed description also of the new borders.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/versa/tri1.htm
Treaty of Peace Between The Allied and Associated Powers and Hungary
And Protocol and Declaration, Signed at Trianon June 4, 1920

Moderator VK: This discussion is beginning to stray >from our topic. Please limit questions and responses to issues related to identification of borders relevant to search for resources. As Tom and Gabor indicate, there is much information available on-line and in other sources for those interested in the historical issues related to WWI and the demise of the Austria-Hungarian monarchy.

The WW1 started with the assination of archduke Franz Ferdinand in
Sarajevo on 28 June 1914 and ended 1918. In the Trianon treaty signed on
4. June 1920 Hungary lost substantial parts of the country. In the
bottom of this mail I give two articles which might give you some
detailed information. Trianon and the borders were and still are very
touchy and emotional questions.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

tom klein schrieb:

i think this is an interesting question, and i hope others in the group will add their thoughts/views.

between 1910 and 1920 there was world war 1, and some borders shifted, although i don't think a lot of territory changed hands >from hungary to austria, although i could be wrong. as far as i know, most of the border changes occurred around the perimeters, such as slovakia or transylvania,which were transferred to neighbouring countries like czechoslovakia or romania.

....... tom klein, toronto

"goldhammer" <goldhammer@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I have a question concerning place of birth on different census
years. In 1910 they listed Hungary, in 1920 Austria. Is this because
of shifting country lines?? If so, what region should I be
concentrating on locating information regarding this family?

About 10'500 articles can be found in the Internet about Hungary and Trianon, many of them treats the question very emotionally. Two articles >from the many thousend and one is with a card the following, may be you find them interesting.

http://www.imagesoft.net/hungary/hun101/fx010016.htm
Hungary's Nationalities Pre-Trianon

The inhabitants of what was left of Hungary numbered only 7.6 million in
a territory of 35,900 square miles. Rumania alone was granted 39,800
square miles, including Transylvania, or more than what was left to
Hungary. Czechoslovakia was given 23,800 square miles and Yugoslavia got
a similar slice, including Croatia, which had stood in partnership with
Hungary for 800 years. *
Even Austria was allotted 1,500 square miles of Western Hungary as a
ploy to poison relations between the two countries.
*
*
*
A Hungarian-Jewish alliance was formed.
Jewish self-identification as Hungarians was only partially motivated by
the advantages such declaration produced. A large segment of the Jewish
community enthusiastically and voluntarily submitted to the process of
Magyarization. Jews in Hungary spoke the Hungarian language, championed
the Hungarian culture, assimilated, intermarried and energetically
supported the objectives of Hungarian nationalism. This process of
Jewish acculturation was encouraged and rewarded by the Hungarian
establishment. In addition to offering badly needed numerical extension,
it also confirmed the claim of Hungarian cultural superiority. It could,
and did, serve as an example for the other minorities.


The URL bellow give a very detailed description also of the new borders.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/versa/tri1.htm
Treaty of Peace Between The Allied and Associated Powers and Hungary
And Protocol and Declaration, Signed at Trianon June 4, 1920

Moderator VK: This discussion is beginning to stray >from our topic. Please limit questions and responses to issues related to identification of borders relevant to search for resources. As Tom and Gabor indicate, there is much information available on-line and in other sources for those interested in the historical issues related to WWI and the demise of the Austria-Hungarian monarchy.

Two-thirds of Hungarian territory was annexed to the neighboring countries:
Rumania, Czechoslovakia, Karpath-Ukraine, Yugoslavia, and a small section to
Austria.

I do not believe anyone would have -- for economical or prestige reasons used
the Austrian definition.
You can't do that.
The birth location in some parts of pre-1920 Hungary by the end of the
century in some cases changed more then four times its geographical definition. With
that, the names of the locations changed to different languages as well.
It is a treacherous area to search in.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

Moderator VK: I'm not sure what Leslie means when he states that one "can't" identify a place of residence in Austria. As noted in many previous discussions, the national boundaries of many places that were part of Hungary before the Treaty of Trianon changed frequently in the following years. My maps show that lands along the western borders of pre-Trianon Moson, Sopron, and Vas megye did become, and remain to this day, part of Austria.

I wonder, what kind of proof are they asking for?

Have you checked with the
INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON HOLOCAUST ERA INSURANCE CLAIMS
on their WEBsite at:

h t t p : / / w w w . i c h e i c . o r g

The site is multilingual, and will provide information how to file claims,
how to prove items.

I just noticed the other day, that the filing deadline is December 31, 2003
for certain insurance claims.

Anyone who may have a claim and did not file yet, be sure to check the above
Website.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

Two-thirds of Hungarian territory was annexed to the neighboring countries:
Rumania, Czechoslovakia, Karpath-Ukraine, Yugoslavia, and a small section to
Austria.

I do not believe anyone would have -- for economical or prestige reasons used
the Austrian definition.
You can't do that.
The birth location in some parts of pre-1920 Hungary by the end of the
century in some cases changed more then four times its geographical definition. With
that, the names of the locations changed to different languages as well.
It is a treacherous area to search in.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

Moderator VK: I'm not sure what Leslie means when he states that one "can't" identify a place of residence in Austria. As noted in many previous discussions, the national boundaries of many places that were part of Hungary before the Treaty of Trianon changed frequently in the following years. My maps show that lands along the western borders of pre-Trianon Moson, Sopron, and Vas megye did become, and remain to this day, part of Austria.

I wonder, what kind of proof are they asking for?

Have you checked with the
INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON HOLOCAUST ERA INSURANCE CLAIMS
on their WEBsite at:

h t t p : / / w w w . i c h e i c . o r g

The site is multilingual, and will provide information how to file claims,
how to prove items.

I just noticed the other day, that the filing deadline is December 31, 2003
for certain insurance claims.

Anyone who may have a claim and did not file yet, be sure to check the above
Website.

Leslie Eloed
California USA

Hell H-SIGers,
One of my relatives, Sandor Katz born1897, is mentioned in Joszef Buscko
book "The Jews of Ujfeherto" as having a big farm in Patroha "Katz Sandor -
farmer in Patroha. B.Ujfeherto, 1897, old landowner family. Had 100 hold
farm since 1928, m. Gluck Helen, ch. Maria, Zsuzsanna." (translated from
Hungarian).
Does anyone know where Patroha is?
Does anyone know why Buscko stated "old landowner family" in his book?
Better, though, does anyone know anything about this "old landowner" family?
Thank you,
Itzik Katz
Resarching:
*Katz-Ujfeherto, Mihalifalva (Transilvania, Romania)
*Goldstein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Fogel-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Wizner-Ujfeherto and Buj (Hungary)
*Schwartz-Nyiracsad (Hungary)
Berger-any (Hungary)
*Kupferstein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Gyamant-Ujfhererto and Ujvaros (Hungary)
Kovacs-Nyiracsad (Hungary)
Galos-Nyiracsad and Nyiregyhaza (Hungary)
Klein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Grunfeld-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Feldman-Mihalifalva (Transilvania, Romania) and Jerusalem (Israel)
Roth-Mihalyfalva (Transilvania, Romania) and Israel
Weiszhausz-Bogati (Hungary)


I already have information about the families marked with (*) and looking
for information about the others. I'd appreciate any contribution you could
make here

Moderator VK: Patroha is about 11 km southwest of Kisvarda.

Hell H-SIGers,
One of my relatives, Sandor Katz born1897, is mentioned in Joszef Buscko
book "The Jews of Ujfeherto" as having a big farm in Patroha "Katz Sandor -
farmer in Patroha. B.Ujfeherto, 1897, old landowner family. Had 100 hold
farm since 1928, m. Gluck Helen, ch. Maria, Zsuzsanna." (translated from
Hungarian).
Does anyone know where Patroha is?
Does anyone know why Buscko stated "old landowner family" in his book?
Better, though, does anyone know anything about this "old landowner" family?
Thank you,
Itzik Katz
Resarching:
*Katz-Ujfeherto, Mihalifalva (Transilvania, Romania)
*Goldstein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Fogel-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Wizner-Ujfeherto and Buj (Hungary)
*Schwartz-Nyiracsad (Hungary)
Berger-any (Hungary)
*Kupferstein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Gyamant-Ujfhererto and Ujvaros (Hungary)
Kovacs-Nyiracsad (Hungary)
Galos-Nyiracsad and Nyiregyhaza (Hungary)
Klein-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Grunfeld-Ujfeherto (Hungary)
Feldman-Mihalifalva (Transilvania, Romania) and Jerusalem (Israel)
Roth-Mihalyfalva (Transilvania, Romania) and Israel
Weiszhausz-Bogati (Hungary)


I already have information about the families marked with (*) and looking
for information about the others. I'd appreciate any contribution you could
make here

Moderator VK: Patroha is about 11 km southwest of Kisvarda.

I am somehow disappointed it seems that there are two new volumes of the
series NEVEK published, according the information of Dan Wyman bookstore
http://www.danwymanbooks.com/nevek.htm according the page information
since 22. July 2003 and neither the israeli members nor anybody else
made any notice of this event, I was looking for the volume of Bekes for
several years, it was announced some 12 vyears ago in Hajdu county
Nevek. One of the drowback seems for me the high price for transcibing
some 6000 names.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

3. (Bekes County) Bar-Shaked, Gavriel, Dr., editor. NAMES OF THE
DEPORTED JEWS >from BEKES COUNTY. New York & Paris: Beate Klarsfeld
Foundation, No Date (2002?). Cloth, large 4to, [14], 275 pages. This
volume lists approximately 5460 names with maiden name, married name,
date of birth, place of birth, & mother's or father's name. Includes
35-page index of maiden names of mothers of deportees. Foreword by Serge
Klarsfeld. Includes maps, facsimiles, and introductory overview by the
editor. Vol. VIII in the NEVEK (Names) project.


4. (Zala County) Bar-Shaked, Gavriel, Dr., editor. NAMES OF THE DEPORTED
JEWS >from ZALA COUNTY. New York & Paris: Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, No
Date (2002?). Cloth, large 4to, 282 pages. Lists approximately 6380
names with place & date of birth, mother's maiden name. and other
information. Also includes 24-page index of maiden names of mothers of
the deported. Foreword by Serge Klarsfeld. Includes maps, facsimiles,
and introductory overview by the editor. The Jews of Zala were deported
to Auschwitz. Vol. V in the NEVEK (Names) project.

Moderator VK: Both of these volumes are listed in the Hungarian SIG Guide to Hungarian resources at the US Holocaust Museum. You can download this resource >from our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/USHMM.html As noted in the H-SIG Guide, you can search the Zala volume on-line (as well as the one for Hajdu megye) at http://www.neveklarsfeld.org/index.shtml
Unfortunately, the Nevek search engine only works if you use the PC version of Outlook.

Margarita,

Does his name appear in the Nevek (Hungarian Labour Battalions) books?

Gabi

Gabriela Svatos
Richmond Hill, Ontario
E-mail: gsvatos@hotmail.com
Business E-mail: bookstore@agawa.com
Business URL: www.abe.com/home/GSVATOS