Date   

Titles in GenAmi 26 #general

Association GenAmi <asso.genami@...>
 

Contents of GenAmi issue 26

The General annual meeting will take place on
March, 11th, 2004,

Genealogical assistance at A.I.U. by
Micheline GUTMANN on the second Tuesday of
each month, >from 10 to 12 a.m.

Jews in Charente-Maritime >from the Middle Age
until the 20th century.
By Micheline Gutmann

Sephardims and Europe by Denis Aboab

Genealogy in Comtat-Venaissin by St├ęphane Lallich

Who enumerates all the different sources.

Origin of names, the name MARCUS,
a personal research of Micheline Gutmann

Jewish first names of animals, by Michael Bernet

Movie and genealogy by Dominique Taste

The "respectful records" by Annie Levy

Many new acquisitions for genealogy in France
and in other European countries

Reviews of genealogy

A few questions and answers, most of them
are published on our forum and received
immediately by members.

Micheline GUTMANN, Paris, France
asso.genami@free.fr
Site GenAmi : http://asso.genami.free.fr


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Titles in GenAmi 26 #general

Association GenAmi <asso.genami@...>
 

Contents of GenAmi issue 26

The General annual meeting will take place on
March, 11th, 2004,

Genealogical assistance at A.I.U. by
Micheline GUTMANN on the second Tuesday of
each month, >from 10 to 12 a.m.

Jews in Charente-Maritime >from the Middle Age
until the 20th century.
By Micheline Gutmann

Sephardims and Europe by Denis Aboab

Genealogy in Comtat-Venaissin by St├ęphane Lallich

Who enumerates all the different sources.

Origin of names, the name MARCUS,
a personal research of Micheline Gutmann

Jewish first names of animals, by Michael Bernet

Movie and genealogy by Dominique Taste

The "respectful records" by Annie Levy

Many new acquisitions for genealogy in France
and in other European countries

Reviews of genealogy

A few questions and answers, most of them
are published on our forum and received
immediately by members.

Micheline GUTMANN, Paris, France
asso.genami@free.fr
Site GenAmi : http://asso.genami.free.fr


Re: POLISH PHOTO ID #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

Does anyone know when Poland started to use photos with their ID's? (I
am thinking in terms of Passports, or that kind of thing.)

Specifically, the town I am looking at looks like Szrensk, and he came
to New York in 1921.
I have seen about 300 different types of archival documents (but not
passports) at four Polish state archives. I have seen photos only around
1930 and around 1940. Of course there might be photos in other documents
too, >from other years. I have seen photos in three documents:

1. Lodz Ghetto registry papers (1940s)

2. Czestochowa ID papers (1933). Sample:
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/BrodaFiszel.jpg

3. Plawno ID papers (1932). Samples:
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/ZylbChuna.jpg
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/ZylbSzyma.jpg

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>

Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, RAYZMAN, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH, FEYNER/FEINER/FAYNER,
BORZYKOWSKI, SZEWCZYK, SZWARCBERG, HILLER, FEDERMAN
Poland (Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Koniecpol-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Przyborow-Zgierz-Lodz-Przedborz)
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/


JRI Poland #Poland Re: POLISH PHOTO ID #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

Does anyone know when Poland started to use photos with their ID's? (I
am thinking in terms of Passports, or that kind of thing.)

Specifically, the town I am looking at looks like Szrensk, and he came
to New York in 1921.
I have seen about 300 different types of archival documents (but not
passports) at four Polish state archives. I have seen photos only around
1930 and around 1940. Of course there might be photos in other documents
too, >from other years. I have seen photos in three documents:

1. Lodz Ghetto registry papers (1940s)

2. Czestochowa ID papers (1933). Sample:
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/BrodaFiszel.jpg

3. Plawno ID papers (1932). Samples:
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/ZylbChuna.jpg
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/ZylbSzyma.jpg

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>

Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, RAYZMAN, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH, FEYNER/FEINER/FAYNER,
BORZYKOWSKI, SZEWCZYK, SZWARCBERG, HILLER, FEDERMAN
Poland (Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Koniecpol-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Przyborow-Zgierz-Lodz-Przedborz)
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/


Zamosc PSA project update #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Dear Zamosc area researchers.

A few days ago Shelley Pollero, Town leader for the town of Zamosc,
announced that indices to the Jewish vital records of the town of Zamosc
not filmed by the Mormons are now being indexed by the JRI-Poland team in
Warsaw as part of the ongoing Zamosc PSA project.

One paragraph in Shelley's mail in particular caught my attention:

Zamosc is the location of the Zamosc PSA Archives, which has records of > 25 nearby and surrounding towns including Bilgoraj, Frampol, Gorzkow,
Grabowiec, Horodlo, Hrubieszow, Izbica, Jaroslawiec, Josefow Ordynacki
(Bilgoraj), Komorow, Krasnobrod, Krasnystaw, Krylow, Laszczow,
Szczebrzeszyn, Tanogora, Tarnogrod, Tomaszow Lubelski, Turobin, Tyszowce,
Uchanie, Wysokie, Zamosc, and Zolkiewka. Inhabitants of area towns and
villages too small to have a civil registration office recorded their
births, marriages, and deaths in the above towns. If you have family
interests in any of these towns or surrounding areas it is worth your
while to look at Zamosc also.
As Coordinator for the Zamosc PSA Archives with now many files >from the
area on my computer I can tell you that Shelley's argument is very true,
and it goes both ways.

Researchers with a known or believed interest in the town of Zamosc will
be wise to look at the records >from the surrounding towns. There was a lot
of intermarrying among those towns.

The following day I was working on a film >from the small town of Wysokie
and came across this record which illustrates my point better than many
words:

8 EMER Leyzur Moszek Reyzla D 1830 Wysokie 771631
Widower, born in Bilgoraj, 70 year old. Leaves 3 children: Moszek in
Tarnogrod, Leybus and Gitla in Zamosc.

In just this one record you have family connections established among four
towns in the Zamosc Archives area! I hope an EMER researcher catches this.

Looking at records >from ALL of these towns can only be done when those
records are indexed AND published in the Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
database. We are very fortunate with the cooperation we get >from the
archivists in Zamosc PSA Archives, so by now we have many finished PSA
databases >from these towns, waiting to be funded so they can go live.

As you may know JRI-Poland recently launched an exciting "End of the Year
Fund Matching Challenge":

The rules of the challenge are: If we can collect half of the REMAINING
funding for a town where a funding target is decided JRI-Poland will
donate the other half. BEWARE: The offer ends by midnight Dec. 31st. so
we have to be fast - but then, who can resist doubling the value of an
investment in the course of a few weeks?<g>

During this challenge period we have already funded seven additional towns
thanks to generous researchers, but for the following towns we still need
your help. The amounts noted are what we need now, before Dec. 31:

Bilgoraj: $70. Town leader: Ari Morris <frank@alphalink.com.au>
Frampol: $75 Town leader: Ari Morris <frank@alphalink.com.au>
Horodlo: $75 Town leader: Esther Minars <esminars@aol.com>
Jozefow Bilg.: $68 Town leader: Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
Komarow: $25 Town leader: David Trost <25tahoe@canada.com>
Laszow: $100 Town leader: Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
Tarnogrod: $125 Town leader: Lillian Faffer <lfaffer@juno.com>
Tomaszow Lub.i: $360Town leader: David Herszenhorn <dahers@nytimes.com>

And remember, researchers who donate the qualifying amount - different for
each town, please contact the Town leader - are eligible to receive the
full PSA database for the town, also PSA files received in the years to
come.

Here's how to make a contribution:

All contributions should be marked "For Zamosc PSA project (name of
town)" on the check or on the credit card form printed out, see below.

Your contributions in US Dollars may be mailed to:

Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
c/o Sheila Salo
5607 Greenleaf Road
Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Visa and Master Card contributions may be phoned to Sheila Salo at (1) 301.
341.1261.

Or print out the form at http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/visa.htm by
clicking the VISA card and fax or mail it to Sheila Salo. The fax number
is also (1) 301.341.1261, >from 8:00 AM to 8:00PM Eastern time for fax or
phone calls.

For those living outside the United States, contributions can only be
accepted in US Dollars unless you use a Visa or Master Card. Your card
will be charged in your local currency. However, please identify the
amount of your contribution in US Dollars.

For selected countries, JRI-Poland is able to accept bank drafts in a
donor's local currency. Please check the JRI-Poland contributions web page
for the list of countries. If your country is not on the list, and if you
do not wish to pay by credit card, please contact JRI-Poland Treasurer,
Sheila Salo, for additional help. The web site address is:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/contrib-non.-us.htm

JRI-Poland is an independent non-profit tax-exempt organization under
Section 501 (c) (3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code.

This is a wonderful opportunity! Please contribute whatever you can.
Remember: the deadline is December 31, 2003

Kirsten Gradel
Nyborg, Denmark
Zamosc Archives Project Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

e-mail: kmgradel@dadlnet.dk


JRI Poland #Poland Zamosc PSA project update #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Dear Zamosc area researchers.

A few days ago Shelley Pollero, Town leader for the town of Zamosc,
announced that indices to the Jewish vital records of the town of Zamosc
not filmed by the Mormons are now being indexed by the JRI-Poland team in
Warsaw as part of the ongoing Zamosc PSA project.

One paragraph in Shelley's mail in particular caught my attention:

Zamosc is the location of the Zamosc PSA Archives, which has records of > 25 nearby and surrounding towns including Bilgoraj, Frampol, Gorzkow,
Grabowiec, Horodlo, Hrubieszow, Izbica, Jaroslawiec, Josefow Ordynacki
(Bilgoraj), Komorow, Krasnobrod, Krasnystaw, Krylow, Laszczow,
Szczebrzeszyn, Tanogora, Tarnogrod, Tomaszow Lubelski, Turobin, Tyszowce,
Uchanie, Wysokie, Zamosc, and Zolkiewka. Inhabitants of area towns and
villages too small to have a civil registration office recorded their
births, marriages, and deaths in the above towns. If you have family
interests in any of these towns or surrounding areas it is worth your
while to look at Zamosc also.
As Coordinator for the Zamosc PSA Archives with now many files >from the
area on my computer I can tell you that Shelley's argument is very true,
and it goes both ways.

Researchers with a known or believed interest in the town of Zamosc will
be wise to look at the records >from the surrounding towns. There was a lot
of intermarrying among those towns.

The following day I was working on a film >from the small town of Wysokie
and came across this record which illustrates my point better than many
words:

8 EMER Leyzur Moszek Reyzla D 1830 Wysokie 771631
Widower, born in Bilgoraj, 70 year old. Leaves 3 children: Moszek in
Tarnogrod, Leybus and Gitla in Zamosc.

In just this one record you have family connections established among four
towns in the Zamosc Archives area! I hope an EMER researcher catches this.

Looking at records >from ALL of these towns can only be done when those
records are indexed AND published in the Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
database. We are very fortunate with the cooperation we get >from the
archivists in Zamosc PSA Archives, so by now we have many finished PSA
databases >from these towns, waiting to be funded so they can go live.

As you may know JRI-Poland recently launched an exciting "End of the Year
Fund Matching Challenge":

The rules of the challenge are: If we can collect half of the REMAINING
funding for a town where a funding target is decided JRI-Poland will
donate the other half. BEWARE: The offer ends by midnight Dec. 31st. so
we have to be fast - but then, who can resist doubling the value of an
investment in the course of a few weeks?<g>

During this challenge period we have already funded seven additional towns
thanks to generous researchers, but for the following towns we still need
your help. The amounts noted are what we need now, before Dec. 31:

Bilgoraj: $70. Town leader: Ari Morris <frank@alphalink.com.au>
Frampol: $75 Town leader: Ari Morris <frank@alphalink.com.au>
Horodlo: $75 Town leader: Esther Minars <esminars@aol.com>
Jozefow Bilg.: $68 Town leader: Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
Komarow: $25 Town leader: David Trost <25tahoe@canada.com>
Laszow: $100 Town leader: Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
Tarnogrod: $125 Town leader: Lillian Faffer <lfaffer@juno.com>
Tomaszow Lub.i: $360Town leader: David Herszenhorn <dahers@nytimes.com>

And remember, researchers who donate the qualifying amount - different for
each town, please contact the Town leader - are eligible to receive the
full PSA database for the town, also PSA files received in the years to
come.

Here's how to make a contribution:

All contributions should be marked "For Zamosc PSA project (name of
town)" on the check or on the credit card form printed out, see below.

Your contributions in US Dollars may be mailed to:

Jewish Records Indexing-Poland
c/o Sheila Salo
5607 Greenleaf Road
Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

Visa and Master Card contributions may be phoned to Sheila Salo at (1) 301.
341.1261.

Or print out the form at http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/visa.htm by
clicking the VISA card and fax or mail it to Sheila Salo. The fax number
is also (1) 301.341.1261, >from 8:00 AM to 8:00PM Eastern time for fax or
phone calls.

For those living outside the United States, contributions can only be
accepted in US Dollars unless you use a Visa or Master Card. Your card
will be charged in your local currency. However, please identify the
amount of your contribution in US Dollars.

For selected countries, JRI-Poland is able to accept bank drafts in a
donor's local currency. Please check the JRI-Poland contributions web page
for the list of countries. If your country is not on the list, and if you
do not wish to pay by credit card, please contact JRI-Poland Treasurer,
Sheila Salo, for additional help. The web site address is:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/contrib-non.-us.htm

JRI-Poland is an independent non-profit tax-exempt organization under
Section 501 (c) (3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code.

This is a wonderful opportunity! Please contribute whatever you can.
Remember: the deadline is December 31, 2003

Kirsten Gradel
Nyborg, Denmark
Zamosc Archives Project Coordinator
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland

e-mail: kmgradel@dadlnet.dk


Bydgoszcz and Wloclawek, records in the 1930s #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

My cousin, Celina (or Tsila or Cyrla) TELMAN lived in Bydgoszcz and
Wloclawek in the 1930s. Do you know if there are any available census
records for Bydgoszcz or Wloclawek for this time period?

A little more detail: We have a family photo that she sent to Palestine in
1931, marked "Bydgoszcz." And she is listed in the 1940 Radomsko, Poland
Book of Migration like this:

Came from: Wloclawek
Went to: Radomsko address Zeromskiego 4
The family: 1 female, 0 male

Dan
........................................................
Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>
Professor of Music / Wittenberg University / Springfield, Ohio USA
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, RAYZMAN, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH, FEYNER/FEINER/FAYNER,
BORZYKOWSKI, SZEWCZYK, SZWARCBERG, HILLER, FEDERMAN
Poland
(Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Koniecpol-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Przyborow-Zgierz-
Lodz-Przedborz-Zarnow?)
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/englander/

MODERATOR'S NOTE: If you search the Archival Database of Miriam Weiner's Routes to Routes Foundation <www.rtrfoundation.org> you will see what records exist for these towns.


JRI Poland #Poland Bydgoszcz and Wloclawek, records in the 1930s #poland

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

My cousin, Celina (or Tsila or Cyrla) TELMAN lived in Bydgoszcz and
Wloclawek in the 1930s. Do you know if there are any available census
records for Bydgoszcz or Wloclawek for this time period?

A little more detail: We have a family photo that she sent to Palestine in
1931, marked "Bydgoszcz." And she is listed in the 1940 Radomsko, Poland
Book of Migration like this:

Came from: Wloclawek
Went to: Radomsko address Zeromskiego 4
The family: 1 female, 0 male

Dan
........................................................
Daniel Kazez <dkazez@wittenberg.edu>
Professor of Music / Wittenberg University / Springfield, Ohio USA
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK, BRODA,
SZEWCZYK, RAYZMAN, LEWKOWICZ, SZPALTYN, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPICKI, LUKS,
MOSZKOWICZ, STROZ, SZWIMER, GUTMAN, PESACH, FEYNER/FEINER/FAYNER,
BORZYKOWSKI, SZEWCZYK, SZWARCBERG, HILLER, FEDERMAN
Poland
(Czestochowa-Przyrow-Mstow-Koniecpol-Janow-Plawno-Radomsko-Przyborow-Zgierz-
Lodz-Przedborz-Zarnow?)
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/talman/
http://www.kazez.com/~dan/englander/

MODERATOR'S NOTE: If you search the Archival Database of Miriam Weiner's Routes to Routes Foundation <www.rtrfoundation.org> you will see what records exist for these towns.


indentify town name on "view mate" #hungary

Joe Wein <joel5763@...>
 

is there anybody with well knowledge of the Hungarian
geography who could recognize the town name
(apparantly in Abau county) posted on "view mate"
the direct link is
:http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3236

please respond privately
thank you very much
Yoel Weinstock
joel5763@yahoo.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary indentify town name on "view mate" #hungary

Joe Wein <joel5763@...>
 

is there anybody with well knowledge of the Hungarian
geography who could recognize the town name
(apparantly in Abau county) posted on "view mate"
the direct link is
:http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3236

please respond privately
thank you very much
Yoel Weinstock
joel5763@yahoo.com


Gayle Schissel Riley's Magnate Landowner website #hungary

jan meisels allen <janmallen@...>
 

Dear H-SIG members:

We have seen the recent Avotaynu e-zine posting about their updated Magnate
Landowners information, and Vivian Kahn posted the query regarding Henry
Wellisch, who spoke at the IAJGS conference about his research in magnate
records. Also speaking at the IAJGS conference on Magnate Landowner of
Eastern Europe records was Gayle Schissel Riley who has posted her
information on the following website:
http://people.stevemorse.org/gayle.riley Her website includes not only the
data base, but articles and documents. If you have questions on her
database or can add information please contact Gayle directly at:
Key2pst@pacbell.net

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA

SEARCHING: REICH, WALD, ZUPNIK-- Eperjes, HUNGARY/Presov,SLOVAKIA;
Szivdnik;
Sebes Kellemes, HUNGARY(Sarisske Luky, SLOVAKIA) Salgo, HUNGARY
MEISELS, SEGAL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, UKRAINE
KLAJNMAN, SZLANG-- Sochaczew, Poland
FREJER, IMIAK, WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK, SHAPIRO, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, --
Lomza-Stawiski,POLAND
GUTFARB -- Zambrow, POLAND


Hungary SIG #Hungary Gayle Schissel Riley's Magnate Landowner website #hungary

jan meisels allen <janmallen@...>
 

Dear H-SIG members:

We have seen the recent Avotaynu e-zine posting about their updated Magnate
Landowners information, and Vivian Kahn posted the query regarding Henry
Wellisch, who spoke at the IAJGS conference about his research in magnate
records. Also speaking at the IAJGS conference on Magnate Landowner of
Eastern Europe records was Gayle Schissel Riley who has posted her
information on the following website:
http://people.stevemorse.org/gayle.riley Her website includes not only the
data base, but articles and documents. If you have questions on her
database or can add information please contact Gayle directly at:
Key2pst@pacbell.net

Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA

SEARCHING: REICH, WALD, ZUPNIK-- Eperjes, HUNGARY/Presov,SLOVAKIA;
Szivdnik;
Sebes Kellemes, HUNGARY(Sarisske Luky, SLOVAKIA) Salgo, HUNGARY
MEISELS, SEGAL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, UKRAINE
KLAJNMAN, SZLANG-- Sochaczew, Poland
FREJER, IMIAK, WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK, SHAPIRO, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, --
Lomza-Stawiski,POLAND
GUTFARB -- Zambrow, POLAND


Polish Photo ID #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

We have a Polish passport >from 1923 with a passport picture.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


JRI Poland #Poland Polish Photo ID #poland

Fbussgang@...
 

We have a Polish passport >from 1923 with a passport picture.

Fay Bussgang
Lexington, MA


POLISH PHOTO ID #poland

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

We have a scanning of a polish passport with pictures for someone who
traveled >from Warsaw to Argentina in 1926.

Rose Feldman

Shalom and see you in Jerusalem!
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
July 4-9, 2004

www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004


JRI Poland #Poland POLISH PHOTO ID #poland

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

We have a scanning of a polish passport with pictures for someone who
traveled >from Warsaw to Argentina in 1926.

Rose Feldman

Shalom and see you in Jerusalem!
The 24th IAJGS International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
July 4-9, 2004

www.jewishgen.org/jerusalem2004


Re: J-ENGLENDER, J-EPSZTAJN, J-ERSZTAJN, J-EJCHEL, J-EJZENBERG, J-EDLINSKA, etc. #poland

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

There are two letters "e" in the Russian alphabet.

One, which looks like Latin "e", is pronounced "ye" ("je" in Polish).
The other one, which looks like inverted "e", is pronounced like "e" in
"essay" or "establishment".

When "Polish" Jewish names were transcribed into Cyrillic alphabet, the
"e's" were written one or the other way. Now, when they are re-transcribed
back into the Latin alphabet, those "e's" either become "ye" ("je") or "e".

Jenglender, Jepsztajn, etc., are erratic spellings due to incorrect double
transliterations. Jedlinska, on the other hand, sounds correct.

Kris Murawski
Annandale, VA




A few years ago, I found what I thought was a random error of
transcription, because I found one of my ENGLENDER birth records recorded as
JENGLENDER in JRI-Poland's database.

But now I am realizing just the opposite: It appears that for some reason
"E" surnames (like ENGLENDER and EPSZTAJN) were sometimes written in
Cyrillic with a "J" at the beginning, like this:

JENGLENDER
JEPSZTAJN
JERSZTAJN
JEJCHEL
JEJZENBERG
JEDLINSKA


JRI Poland #Poland Re: J-ENGLENDER, J-EPSZTAJN, J-ERSZTAJN, J-EJCHEL, J-EJZENBERG, J-EDLINSKA, etc. #poland

Kris Murawski <kris.murawski@...>
 

There are two letters "e" in the Russian alphabet.

One, which looks like Latin "e", is pronounced "ye" ("je" in Polish).
The other one, which looks like inverted "e", is pronounced like "e" in
"essay" or "establishment".

When "Polish" Jewish names were transcribed into Cyrillic alphabet, the
"e's" were written one or the other way. Now, when they are re-transcribed
back into the Latin alphabet, those "e's" either become "ye" ("je") or "e".

Jenglender, Jepsztajn, etc., are erratic spellings due to incorrect double
transliterations. Jedlinska, on the other hand, sounds correct.

Kris Murawski
Annandale, VA




A few years ago, I found what I thought was a random error of
transcription, because I found one of my ENGLENDER birth records recorded as
JENGLENDER in JRI-Poland's database.

But now I am realizing just the opposite: It appears that for some reason
"E" surnames (like ENGLENDER and EPSZTAJN) were sometimes written in
Cyrillic with a "J" at the beginning, like this:

JENGLENDER
JEPSZTAJN
JERSZTAJN
JEJCHEL
JEJZENBERG
JEDLINSKA


Re: J-ENGLENDER, J-EPSZTAJN, J-ERSZTAJN, J-EJCHEL, J-EJZENBERG, etc. #general

garymaher@...
 

Interesting. I am not an authority in Russian either, but I can offer
this:

In Russian, the vowel "e" is pronounced "ye". (I think there's another
letter with the English "e" sound (as in met), but I don't see it as
often.)

So the given name "Ekaterina" would actually be pronounced
"yeh-kah-tye-REE-nah". Both "e"s get "ye"-ified.

Someone transliterating records >from the Cyrillic to the Roman alphabet,
not realizing that the names were not Slavic (or not realizing that
non-Slavic names are not pronounced the same way), might very well stick
the "y" (or, sometimes in Polish, a "j") in front.

If I'm right, this should only happen with records that are transcribed
from Russian, as opposed to Polish.
The D-M soundex treats "e" and "je" as
equivalent sounds.

So the only impact of this transliteration anomaly is that the names look
a bit odd when they come back into the Roman alphabet. Although I
suppose that might lead some researchers to rule out names or otherwise
be confused based on the presence of the "J".

Gary Maher

Daniel Kazez writes:
A few years ago, I found what I thought was a random error of
transcription, because I found one of my ENGLENDER birth records
recorded as JENGLENDER in JRI-Poland's database.

But now I am realizing just the opposite: It appears that for some
reason
"E" surnames (like ENGLENDER and EPSZTAJN) were sometimes written in
Cyrillic with a "J" at the beginning, like this:

JENGLENDER
JEPSZTAJN
JERSZTAJN
JEJCHEL
JEJZENBERG
JEDLINSKA

You may wish to search for your E surnames with an added initial J.

Note, however, that I am not a Cyrillic expert. I hope that others
will be
able to add an authoritative opinion on the subject above, if
needed.


JRI Poland #Poland Re: J-ENGLENDER, J-EPSZTAJN, J-ERSZTAJN, J-EJCHEL, J-EJZENBERG, etc. #poland

garymaher@...
 

Interesting. I am not an authority in Russian either, but I can offer
this:

In Russian, the vowel "e" is pronounced "ye". (I think there's another
letter with the English "e" sound (as in met), but I don't see it as
often.)

So the given name "Ekaterina" would actually be pronounced
"yeh-kah-tye-REE-nah". Both "e"s get "ye"-ified.

Someone transliterating records >from the Cyrillic to the Roman alphabet,
not realizing that the names were not Slavic (or not realizing that
non-Slavic names are not pronounced the same way), might very well stick
the "y" (or, sometimes in Polish, a "j") in front.

If I'm right, this should only happen with records that are transcribed
from Russian, as opposed to Polish.
The D-M soundex treats "e" and "je" as
equivalent sounds.

So the only impact of this transliteration anomaly is that the names look
a bit odd when they come back into the Roman alphabet. Although I
suppose that might lead some researchers to rule out names or otherwise
be confused based on the presence of the "J".

Gary Maher

Daniel Kazez writes:
A few years ago, I found what I thought was a random error of
transcription, because I found one of my ENGLENDER birth records
recorded as JENGLENDER in JRI-Poland's database.

But now I am realizing just the opposite: It appears that for some
reason
"E" surnames (like ENGLENDER and EPSZTAJN) were sometimes written in
Cyrillic with a "J" at the beginning, like this:

JENGLENDER
JEPSZTAJN
JERSZTAJN
JEJCHEL
JEJZENBERG
JEDLINSKA

You may wish to search for your E surnames with an added initial J.

Note, however, that I am not a Cyrillic expert. I hope that others
will be
able to add an authoritative opinion on the subject above, if
needed.