Date   

Portuguese Embassy 1944 #hungary

Michele Sankar <sankosy@...>
 

Hello Friends -

I feel very emotional writing about this topic on December 31, knowing
that this time 59 years ago was full of horrific tragedy for the Jews of
Budapest.......

My great-great-grandmother was Betti/Berta SEIDNER (1875 - 1945), who
was divorced >from her husband, Dr. Simon WINTER of Salgotarjan. Her
brother was Max/Miksa SEIDNER (1866 - 1945) who had a rum & liquor
business in Budapest. Berta was living on the Buda side of the city, on
La'gyma'nyosi street for many years (Kelenfold district XI). Family
stories told us that she died of old age about 1945 and was buried in
the Kerepesi cemetery. Of course, this was told by her Catholic
daughter and granddaughter who had hidden their Jewishness throughout
their lives, so it was assumed that the (at that time unnamed)
grandmother Berta was Catholic too. When I contacted Kerepesi cemetery,
they informed me that there was absolutely no Betti/Berta SEIDNER or
Mrs. Simon WINTER buried in any of their sections.

In the recent past, I made contact with a descendant of Berta's brother
Max, and this descendant is a survivor. She told me that Max and his
family were protected in the Portuguese Embassy in Budapest (about Dec.
'44), but were attacked and removed by the Arrow-cross, then murdered.
I don't have much more info than that, but I am wondering if perhaps
Max's sister Berta might have been with them.

I have obtained a copy of the book "Jewish Budapest" which has helped me
in many ways. Still, it has become my obsession to honour my
GGgrandmother by learning what exactly happened to her. While there are
many Holocaust databases and resources out there, I haven't had any
success in finding about any Budapest SEIDNER family members. Would
there be records somewhere of the names of people protected at the
Portuguese Embassy? My letter to the International Red Cross was
fruitless. Would the Jewish community at Sip-u in Budapest have records
of victims? Even if there aren't specific details of the victims >from
the Embassy, maybe there is something else that lists names of Budapest
victims. I'm new to research of the Holocaust era, so any advice or
direction would be most appreciated.

Many thanks to you all.

Sincerely,

Michele Sankar
Ontario

Searching:

WINTER (Salgotarjan, Abauj-szina/Sena, Kosice)
HOLLANDER, SPITZ, WIZNER/WISNER (Abauj-szina/Sena, Kosice)
SEIDNER (Salgotarjan, Budapest)
GLOCKNER (Somogy megye, Budapest)
BECK (Somogy megye)
WEINBERGER (Baja, Bacs-Bodrog)
FREUND (Paks, Tolna)


Re: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

MMS <mms@...>
 

"Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt"

The correct spelling is: "Szu:lei gondviselet alatt" = (The person is ) under the care of her/his parents.

Moshe Shavit
Israel


Hungary SIG #Hungary Portuguese Embassy 1944 #hungary

Michele Sankar <sankosy@...>
 

Hello Friends -

I feel very emotional writing about this topic on December 31, knowing
that this time 59 years ago was full of horrific tragedy for the Jews of
Budapest.......

My great-great-grandmother was Betti/Berta SEIDNER (1875 - 1945), who
was divorced >from her husband, Dr. Simon WINTER of Salgotarjan. Her
brother was Max/Miksa SEIDNER (1866 - 1945) who had a rum & liquor
business in Budapest. Berta was living on the Buda side of the city, on
La'gyma'nyosi street for many years (Kelenfold district XI). Family
stories told us that she died of old age about 1945 and was buried in
the Kerepesi cemetery. Of course, this was told by her Catholic
daughter and granddaughter who had hidden their Jewishness throughout
their lives, so it was assumed that the (at that time unnamed)
grandmother Berta was Catholic too. When I contacted Kerepesi cemetery,
they informed me that there was absolutely no Betti/Berta SEIDNER or
Mrs. Simon WINTER buried in any of their sections.

In the recent past, I made contact with a descendant of Berta's brother
Max, and this descendant is a survivor. She told me that Max and his
family were protected in the Portuguese Embassy in Budapest (about Dec.
'44), but were attacked and removed by the Arrow-cross, then murdered.
I don't have much more info than that, but I am wondering if perhaps
Max's sister Berta might have been with them.

I have obtained a copy of the book "Jewish Budapest" which has helped me
in many ways. Still, it has become my obsession to honour my
GGgrandmother by learning what exactly happened to her. While there are
many Holocaust databases and resources out there, I haven't had any
success in finding about any Budapest SEIDNER family members. Would
there be records somewhere of the names of people protected at the
Portuguese Embassy? My letter to the International Red Cross was
fruitless. Would the Jewish community at Sip-u in Budapest have records
of victims? Even if there aren't specific details of the victims >from
the Embassy, maybe there is something else that lists names of Budapest
victims. I'm new to research of the Holocaust era, so any advice or
direction would be most appreciated.

Many thanks to you all.

Sincerely,

Michele Sankar
Ontario

Searching:

WINTER (Salgotarjan, Abauj-szina/Sena, Kosice)
HOLLANDER, SPITZ, WIZNER/WISNER (Abauj-szina/Sena, Kosice)
SEIDNER (Salgotarjan, Budapest)
GLOCKNER (Somogy megye, Budapest)
BECK (Somogy megye)
WEINBERGER (Baja, Bacs-Bodrog)
FREUND (Paks, Tolna)


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

MMS <mms@...>
 

"Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt"

The correct spelling is: "Szu:lei gondviselet alatt" = (The person is ) under the care of her/his parents.

Moshe Shavit
Israel


Re: Gyorgy Vidor #hungary

Omri Arnon <Omri@...>
 

Hi Stephen,

Would you please email me the site address? Is it Matav.hu?

Thanks

Omri Arnon
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen P Casey" <spdanhan@yahoo.com.au>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Cc: <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: 20 December, 2003 11:26
Subject: [h-sig] Gyorgy Vidor


According to the Hungarian Telephone Book site,
there is only one György Vidor in Budapest.
Address:
1133 Pannonia utca 95
BUDAPEST
Telephone:36-1-320-6443

Pannonia Street is in the typical Jewish middle
class area, so it must be either him or some
relative.
Try!
Stephen


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Gyorgy Vidor #hungary

Omri Arnon <Omri@...>
 

Hi Stephen,

Would you please email me the site address? Is it Matav.hu?

Thanks

Omri Arnon
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen P Casey" <spdanhan@yahoo.com.au>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Cc: <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: 20 December, 2003 11:26
Subject: [h-sig] Gyorgy Vidor


According to the Hungarian Telephone Book site,
there is only one György Vidor in Budapest.
Address:
1133 Pannonia utca 95
BUDAPEST
Telephone:36-1-320-6443

Pannonia Street is in the typical Jewish middle
class area, so it must be either him or some
relative.
Try!
Stephen


Fw: Fwd: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

mirda <mirda@...>
 

The proper word is obviously "gondvisele's". The possible interpretations of the expression:
"Szu:lei gondviselet alatt" are probably those given by Gabor, though the original text ought to be
seen.
Miryam & David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@cyberlink.ch>
To: H-SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: 30 ãöîáø 2003 10:22
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Fwd: 1848 Census Rematk


: I could reach the VIEWMATE but not the sight TO VIEW, so I was unable to
: find the referenced image. In many case I would prefer to give the
: direct URL to the picture, it might shorten the time to navigate through
: different pages to the one you are looking for. For the translation I
: would guess that "Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt" could mean "szülei
: gondnoksàg alatt", under guardian, administrator, trustee, this might
: have different reason, illness, mental problems, unable to menage the
: financial problems, neglect the child, the family etc.
:
: Best regards
: Gabor Hirsch
:
: Robert Neu schrieb:
: >
: > Hi, One more puzzler.
: >
: > On the 1848 Census for Zala County I have encountered a remark that I
: > cannot quite make out.
: >
: > It concerns children whose parents are not listed.
: >
: > I have traced the remark and it can be found under Viewmate.
: >
: > I can read as follows:
: >
: > Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt Parents under ? behavior/conduct
: >
: > Any help would be appreciated.
: >
: > The Viewmate Reference is VM3311. Thanks
: >
: > Robert Neu 1848 Project Coordinator


Re: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

that's pretty lousy handwriting. i think you're probably reading it mostly correctly, although i can't swear to it: "szu:lo:i gonvisele's alatt". (it's more likely "szu:lo:i" which means parental, rather than "szu:lei", their parents.) i would translate it as: "under parental care" or "responsibility" (or according to one online dictionary, "providence").

unless someone else can come up with a more plausible version.


....... tom klein, toronto

ps. like gabor hirsch, i also found it a bit challenging to get there (http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3311). and once i got to the picture, i had to save it, rotate it and scale it before i could read anything. surely there has to be an easier way...


Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com> wrote:


On the 1848 Census for Zala County I have encountered a remark that I
cannot quite make out.
It concerns children whose parents are not listed.
I have traced the remark and it can be found under Viewmate.
I can read as follows:

Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt
Parents under ? behavior/conduct

Any help would be appreciated.

The Viewmate Reference is VM3311.
Thanks

Robert Neu
1848 Project Coordinator


Hungary SIG #Hungary Fw: Fwd: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

mirda <mirda@...>
 

The proper word is obviously "gondvisele's". The possible interpretations of the expression:
"Szu:lei gondviselet alatt" are probably those given by Gabor, though the original text ought to be
seen.
Miryam & David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@cyberlink.ch>
To: H-SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: 30 ãöîáø 2003 10:22
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Fwd: 1848 Census Rematk


: I could reach the VIEWMATE but not the sight TO VIEW, so I was unable to
: find the referenced image. In many case I would prefer to give the
: direct URL to the picture, it might shorten the time to navigate through
: different pages to the one you are looking for. For the translation I
: would guess that "Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt" could mean "szülei
: gondnoksàg alatt", under guardian, administrator, trustee, this might
: have different reason, illness, mental problems, unable to menage the
: financial problems, neglect the child, the family etc.
:
: Best regards
: Gabor Hirsch
:
: Robert Neu schrieb:
: >
: > Hi, One more puzzler.
: >
: > On the 1848 Census for Zala County I have encountered a remark that I
: > cannot quite make out.
: >
: > It concerns children whose parents are not listed.
: >
: > I have traced the remark and it can be found under Viewmate.
: >
: > I can read as follows:
: >
: > Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt Parents under ? behavior/conduct
: >
: > Any help would be appreciated.
: >
: > The Viewmate Reference is VM3311. Thanks
: >
: > Robert Neu 1848 Project Coordinator


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fwd: 1848 Census Rematk #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

that's pretty lousy handwriting. i think you're probably reading it mostly correctly, although i can't swear to it: "szu:lo:i gonvisele's alatt". (it's more likely "szu:lo:i" which means parental, rather than "szu:lei", their parents.) i would translate it as: "under parental care" or "responsibility" (or according to one online dictionary, "providence").

unless someone else can come up with a more plausible version.


....... tom klein, toronto

ps. like gabor hirsch, i also found it a bit challenging to get there (http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3311). and once i got to the picture, i had to save it, rotate it and scale it before i could read anything. surely there has to be an easier way...


Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com> wrote:


On the 1848 Census for Zala County I have encountered a remark that I
cannot quite make out.
It concerns children whose parents are not listed.
I have traced the remark and it can be found under Viewmate.
I can read as follows:

Szulei (gend?)viselet alatt
Parents under ? behavior/conduct

Any help would be appreciated.

The Viewmate Reference is VM3311.
Thanks

Robert Neu
1848 Project Coordinator


Re: Pelj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

jewishgen's shtetlseeker is a good place to start. (but for hungarian names, it's best to avoid the daitch-mokotoff soundex option.) if you ask for towns starting with the three letters "pel" in hungary, you get about half a dozen hits, including "pe'ly" (47o29" x 20o21", 60 miles east of budapest), which may be the town you're looking for. i would guess that the death certificate also shows the county ("megye") that the town is located in, and that should match the location of "pe'ly" if we have the right place.

unfortunately, the picture hasn't shown up in viewmate yet.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:

To answer VK answer, the certificate was issued in 1948 and it
details the passing away of Hermina Blau on 9 July 1904. The
certificate was issued in Hungarian. It lists the place of death as
Pe'lj and it was also issued there.

I also placed the death certificate in VIEWMATE

-----Original Message----- From: Katz, Itzik
[mailto:Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003
9:05 AM To: H-SIG Subject: [h-sig] Pelj


Hello H-Siggers,

I have a death certificate of a relative of mine. The place of death
and certificate issuance read Pe'lj.

Does anyonr know where this place is? Does it still exist today?

Thank you,

Itzik Katz Researching: Katz, Kupferstein, Goldstein, Wizner, Fogel,
Grunfeld--Ujfeherto Schwartz, Kovacs, Galos--Nyiracsad
Frankfurt-Nyiregyhaza

Moderator VK: What year was the certificate issued and in what
language is it written?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: RE: Pelj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

jewishgen's shtetlseeker is a good place to start. (but for hungarian names, it's best to avoid the daitch-mokotoff soundex option.) if you ask for towns starting with the three letters "pel" in hungary, you get about half a dozen hits, including "pe'ly" (47o29" x 20o21", 60 miles east of budapest), which may be the town you're looking for. i would guess that the death certificate also shows the county ("megye") that the town is located in, and that should match the location of "pe'ly" if we have the right place.

unfortunately, the picture hasn't shown up in viewmate yet.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:

To answer VK answer, the certificate was issued in 1948 and it
details the passing away of Hermina Blau on 9 July 1904. The
certificate was issued in Hungarian. It lists the place of death as
Pe'lj and it was also issued there.

I also placed the death certificate in VIEWMATE

-----Original Message----- From: Katz, Itzik
[mailto:Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003
9:05 AM To: H-SIG Subject: [h-sig] Pelj


Hello H-Siggers,

I have a death certificate of a relative of mine. The place of death
and certificate issuance read Pe'lj.

Does anyonr know where this place is? Does it still exist today?

Thank you,

Itzik Katz Researching: Katz, Kupferstein, Goldstein, Wizner, Fogel,
Grunfeld--Ujfeherto Schwartz, Kovacs, Galos--Nyiracsad
Frankfurt-Nyiregyhaza

Moderator VK: What year was the certificate issued and in what
language is it written?


Viewmate VM3347 and VM3348 - Russian translations needed #general

Maxine Bromyard <maxine@...>
 

Hi,

I have posted two Polish birth records on Viewmate - files VM3347 and
VM3348 - at
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

or via direct URLs:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3347

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3348

I believe these are Cyrillic Russian, and would really appreciate
translations if someone can spare some time, as I think these are my
great-grandfather and grandfather's records.

Please respond privately - thank you.

Maxine Bromyard
Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire
England.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Viewmate VM3347 and VM3348 - Russian translations needed #general

Maxine Bromyard <maxine@...>
 

Hi,

I have posted two Polish birth records on Viewmate - files VM3347 and
VM3348 - at
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

or via direct URLs:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3347

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=3348

I believe these are Cyrillic Russian, and would really appreciate
translations if someone can spare some time, as I think these are my
great-grandfather and grandfather's records.

Please respond privately - thank you.

Maxine Bromyard
Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire
England.


Re: NARA microfilm #general

David Oseas <doseas{nospam}@...>
 

Russell,


Has anyone had any experience looking up this [or similar] film:

Microfilm ID M1461
Record Group RG085
Title Soundex Index to Canadian Border Entries through the St. Albans,
Vermont, District, 1895-1924. physical Description 401 rolls ; 16mm.

These are records of border crossings >from what I can gather. Originally
they were stored in Montreal so the name is misleading.
That is correct -- see general articles below.


If anyone has any experience, what kind of data can I expect to find? Or
does anyone know of a different location where these films may be
searched besides an NARA field office.
See the RootsWeb article below.


These two articles give a general explanation of the St. Albans list & how
they got that name:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~holdenclan/albans.htm
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/POELIST/CAN1.htm

This article gives a detailed explanation of the organization of the list:
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/fall_2000_us_canada_immigration_
records_1.html

Depending on when & where your ancestors arrived & what their stated
destination was, you may find additional information here (Canadian
Passenger Lists 1865-1935):
http://www.archives.ca/02/020202/0202020401_e.html


-David Oseas, Thousand Oaks, CA, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: One of the above URL's spreads over two lines. Make sure to copy &
paste the entire address onto your browser.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NARA microfilm #general

David Oseas <doseas{nospam}@...>
 

Russell,


Has anyone had any experience looking up this [or similar] film:

Microfilm ID M1461
Record Group RG085
Title Soundex Index to Canadian Border Entries through the St. Albans,
Vermont, District, 1895-1924. physical Description 401 rolls ; 16mm.

These are records of border crossings >from what I can gather. Originally
they were stored in Montreal so the name is misleading.
That is correct -- see general articles below.


If anyone has any experience, what kind of data can I expect to find? Or
does anyone know of a different location where these films may be
searched besides an NARA field office.
See the RootsWeb article below.


These two articles give a general explanation of the St. Albans list & how
they got that name:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~holdenclan/albans.htm
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/POELIST/CAN1.htm

This article gives a detailed explanation of the organization of the list:
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/fall_2000_us_canada_immigration_
records_1.html

Depending on when & where your ancestors arrived & what their stated
destination was, you may find additional information here (Canadian
Passenger Lists 1865-1935):
http://www.archives.ca/02/020202/0202020401_e.html


-David Oseas, Thousand Oaks, CA, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: One of the above URL's spreads over two lines. Make sure to copy &
paste the entire address onto your browser.


Re: Online archive for New York Times 1851-1995 #general

ELIAS SAVADA
 

On 29 Dec 2003 10:25, Carol Gurstellewrote:

Tara Callishan's "ResearchBuzz" newsletter recently mentioned an online
archive of The New York Times. Searching is free and items can be
purchased online for $2.99 (or less if you purchase a "bundle" of
articles.) The site is
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/advancedsearch.html
If you join the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society
(www.nygbs.org) for $50/60 a year (depends on where you live), you get
free unlimited access to the NYTimes archives (through 2001 or 2002 I
believe) and you can save the graphic representations of articles as
pdf files to your computer. You also get unlimited access to
heritagequest.com One of the best deals going.

Elias Savada
Bethesda MD
esaavada@mac.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Online archive for New York Times 1851-1995 #general

ELIAS SAVADA
 

On 29 Dec 2003 10:25, Carol Gurstellewrote:

Tara Callishan's "ResearchBuzz" newsletter recently mentioned an online
archive of The New York Times. Searching is free and items can be
purchased online for $2.99 (or less if you purchase a "bundle" of
articles.) The site is
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/advancedsearch.html
If you join the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society
(www.nygbs.org) for $50/60 a year (depends on where you live), you get
free unlimited access to the NYTimes archives (through 2001 or 2002 I
believe) and you can save the graphic representations of articles as
pdf files to your computer. You also get unlimited access to
heritagequest.com One of the best deals going.

Elias Savada
Bethesda MD
esaavada@mac.com


Obtaining passport information #general

ELandL <e-berkowitz@...>
 

I recently discovered my great uncle's passport number. Does anyone
know if there is a way for me to obtain the information that he
supplied in order to obtain the passport and whether or not obtaining
that information will provide any useful information to me? He
originally immigrated to the US in the 1880s and died in the 1940s. I
do know that he travelled to Europe several times to visit family
members.

Linda Berkowitz
Northbrook, IL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Obtaining passport information #general

ELandL <e-berkowitz@...>
 

I recently discovered my great uncle's passport number. Does anyone
know if there is a way for me to obtain the information that he
supplied in order to obtain the passport and whether or not obtaining
that information will provide any useful information to me? He
originally immigrated to the US in the 1880s and died in the 1940s. I
do know that he travelled to Europe several times to visit family
members.

Linda Berkowitz
Northbrook, IL