Date   

Re: *Significant other* and *Same Sex Couples* #general

DAVID SNYDER <disnyder@...>
 

In response to Trudy Barch's query about unmarried couples, Stan Goodman
provided the following advice:

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'
Your question is interesting, but not complete. It isn't clear why you
cannot say "spouse", for example.
Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples?
Depending upon your own attitude to such things, you can either record
them just as any other couple, or ignore them. Since they have not
produced a child together, the discussion above doesn't apply. I have
encountered this challenge, but decline to reveal my solution.
--

I would reply to the initial query by suggesting one thinks about why one
is involved in genealogy and family history in the first place. >from my
standpoint, it depends on the level of thoroughness one operates on in
one's research. Is the goal as comprehensive a family history as
possible? If so, then why should either of these kinds of relationships--
and others as well, I might add--be problematic if one is "simply
recording facts" as such things can be construed? I think, however, that
the question was more one of technical advice, and not simply one
of "choice" whether or not to recognize the life events of some of our
relations. I suppose some people elect not to record intermarriage, or
perhaps the offspring of such unions; oftentimes tragic circumstances such
as suicide, criminal acts, or even psychological and physical impairments
are "concealed" by fellow genealogists for a plethora of reasons.

Technically, within the constraints of most major-market genealogy
programs, the choices are limited and constraining, yet with each new
version of the software there seems to be a progressive expansion of
various types of "facts" and relationship tags. Until, however, you find
a program that addresses all of your (potential) needs, you might find
yourself, for the sake of continuity in generating certain reports--etc.,
having to select "marriage"/"spouse" as the technical/technological term
to designate a non-marital relationship. This can be explicated in the
notes or free text section to such a designation available in almost every
major-market program.

That said, the question returns once again to the role of the
genealogist/family historian. Do you suppress things that you find
objectionable? Or do you only suppress sensitive issues (such as mental
health, criminal activities and the like) in consideration of living family
members, but not conceal them in your private archive so as to preserve the
history for the individual who will hopefully, one day, pick up where you
leave off? What about extra-marital affairs? What about children born of
such "unions"--are they your relatives or not? Ignoring any of the
aforementioned "difficult" issues, however, does not make them disappear
and in my humble opinion, inevitably leads to a situation where one person
stands in judgment on the validity of another's (their relative's)
existence. Certainly, this is a tricky business and one cannot hope to
gain full consensus on every issue. So, may I suggest to you Trudy, that
you ponder your role as the recorder of such information and make a
decision for yourself based on your own sensibilities. For now,
unfortunately, you may have to improvise with the technology you are using
in order to generate reports and charts and the like, but that decision is
ultimately an ethical decision, much like the previous debates that have
gone on in this forum about concealing personal information for living
individuals when posting on the net or sending out data to potential
relatives.

David Snyder
NYC


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: *Significant other* and *Same Sex Couples* #general

DAVID SNYDER <disnyder@...>
 

In response to Trudy Barch's query about unmarried couples, Stan Goodman
provided the following advice:

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'
Your question is interesting, but not complete. It isn't clear why you
cannot say "spouse", for example.
Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples?
Depending upon your own attitude to such things, you can either record
them just as any other couple, or ignore them. Since they have not
produced a child together, the discussion above doesn't apply. I have
encountered this challenge, but decline to reveal my solution.
--

I would reply to the initial query by suggesting one thinks about why one
is involved in genealogy and family history in the first place. >from my
standpoint, it depends on the level of thoroughness one operates on in
one's research. Is the goal as comprehensive a family history as
possible? If so, then why should either of these kinds of relationships--
and others as well, I might add--be problematic if one is "simply
recording facts" as such things can be construed? I think, however, that
the question was more one of technical advice, and not simply one
of "choice" whether or not to recognize the life events of some of our
relations. I suppose some people elect not to record intermarriage, or
perhaps the offspring of such unions; oftentimes tragic circumstances such
as suicide, criminal acts, or even psychological and physical impairments
are "concealed" by fellow genealogists for a plethora of reasons.

Technically, within the constraints of most major-market genealogy
programs, the choices are limited and constraining, yet with each new
version of the software there seems to be a progressive expansion of
various types of "facts" and relationship tags. Until, however, you find
a program that addresses all of your (potential) needs, you might find
yourself, for the sake of continuity in generating certain reports--etc.,
having to select "marriage"/"spouse" as the technical/technological term
to designate a non-marital relationship. This can be explicated in the
notes or free text section to such a designation available in almost every
major-market program.

That said, the question returns once again to the role of the
genealogist/family historian. Do you suppress things that you find
objectionable? Or do you only suppress sensitive issues (such as mental
health, criminal activities and the like) in consideration of living family
members, but not conceal them in your private archive so as to preserve the
history for the individual who will hopefully, one day, pick up where you
leave off? What about extra-marital affairs? What about children born of
such "unions"--are they your relatives or not? Ignoring any of the
aforementioned "difficult" issues, however, does not make them disappear
and in my humble opinion, inevitably leads to a situation where one person
stands in judgment on the validity of another's (their relative's)
existence. Certainly, this is a tricky business and one cannot hope to
gain full consensus on every issue. So, may I suggest to you Trudy, that
you ponder your role as the recorder of such information and make a
decision for yourself based on your own sensibilities. For now,
unfortunately, you may have to improvise with the technology you are using
in order to generate reports and charts and the like, but that decision is
ultimately an ethical decision, much like the previous debates that have
gone on in this forum about concealing personal information for living
individuals when posting on the net or sending out data to potential
relatives.

David Snyder
NYC


Significant Other and Same Sex Couples #general

Natalie Spencer Carroll
 

I try to guide myself when making genealogical relationship judgements with
what I call "the path of least pain".

If a couple thinks of themselves as married I list them that way. Their
desires aren't always available.
In one family tree there is a woman that had 5 children, all with different
fathers, she had married none of them.
Her relationships were listed as private. My thoughts are that the 5
children should be embraced by the family as descendants and not judged by
their mother's choices.

In my own family tree I discovered a "skeleton in the closet". It was 5
years before I disclosed the 'Skeleton' to the appropriate parties only to
discover that they already knew. Though we know of the 'Skeleton', it is
not listed in the family tree because there is no documentation. The
parties have not asked me to acknowledge the information, so I have not
included it in the tree.

As for same sex relationships. I am not totally open in my handling of that
information. My wife is more liberal than I. She thinks that I should
list 'Gay' couples the same as any other couple. However, I am the one
doing the tree and I have a more cautious approach. My first concern to
making gay couples relationship public is
just that, it becomes public and almost irreversible. One or both of the
members may choose to keep their relationship private. Both members must
agree making the relationship public. I am also concerned with
the wishes of the parents, other siblings second. If I decide to not put
he same sex relationship in the tree and there are disagreements, they are
certainly free to write their own tree.

I would prefer being accountable for something I didn't do rather than
something I did do. Again, I try to take the path of least pain.

Gerald I. Simon
gilmore3@ix.netcom.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Significant Other and Same Sex Couples #general

Natalie Spencer Carroll
 

I try to guide myself when making genealogical relationship judgements with
what I call "the path of least pain".

If a couple thinks of themselves as married I list them that way. Their
desires aren't always available.
In one family tree there is a woman that had 5 children, all with different
fathers, she had married none of them.
Her relationships were listed as private. My thoughts are that the 5
children should be embraced by the family as descendants and not judged by
their mother's choices.

In my own family tree I discovered a "skeleton in the closet". It was 5
years before I disclosed the 'Skeleton' to the appropriate parties only to
discover that they already knew. Though we know of the 'Skeleton', it is
not listed in the family tree because there is no documentation. The
parties have not asked me to acknowledge the information, so I have not
included it in the tree.

As for same sex relationships. I am not totally open in my handling of that
information. My wife is more liberal than I. She thinks that I should
list 'Gay' couples the same as any other couple. However, I am the one
doing the tree and I have a more cautious approach. My first concern to
making gay couples relationship public is
just that, it becomes public and almost irreversible. One or both of the
members may choose to keep their relationship private. Both members must
agree making the relationship public. I am also concerned with
the wishes of the parents, other siblings second. If I decide to not put
he same sex relationship in the tree and there are disagreements, they are
certainly free to write their own tree.

I would prefer being accountable for something I didn't do rather than
something I did do. Again, I try to take the path of least pain.

Gerald I. Simon
gilmore3@ix.netcom.com


LIFMAN help needed #general

maurgold <maurgold@...>
 

Having stated my interest in locating any LIFMAN descendants I have been
informed that there are some three families of that name in the state of
N.Y.

Ihave been unsuccessful in getting access to N.Y. tele. directories here in
Melbourne - they have been withdrawn >from public access.

Could some kind soul look up the addresses for me and send them to me off
list. I would like to be able to make enquiries by postal means.

Maureen Goldberg.

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LIFMAN help needed #general

maurgold <maurgold@...>
 

Having stated my interest in locating any LIFMAN descendants I have been
informed that there are some three families of that name in the state of
N.Y.

Ihave been unsuccessful in getting access to N.Y. tele. directories here in
Melbourne - they have been withdrawn >from public access.

Could some kind soul look up the addresses for me and send them to me off
list. I would like to be able to make enquiries by postal means.

Maureen Goldberg.

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.


my search for kassner #scandinavia

daphna brafman <daphnabrafman@...>
 

over the last few years i have not had any success in my efforts to trace or
find info about my family. but now, for the first time i was able to find a
family i have been looking for. my success was the result of the wonderful
help and information provided by a man by the name of LARS HALLBERG >from
SWEDEN'S NATIONAL ARCHIVES. mr. hallberg responded me after a short time and
gave me all the information i needed about the kassner family.
i would also like to thank readers of this newsletter who wrote me and
adviced me.
daphna brafman
givatayim israel
daphnabrafman@hotmail.com


Scandinavia SIG #Scandinavia my search for kassner #scandinavia

daphna brafman <daphnabrafman@...>
 

over the last few years i have not had any success in my efforts to trace or
find info about my family. but now, for the first time i was able to find a
family i have been looking for. my success was the result of the wonderful
help and information provided by a man by the name of LARS HALLBERG >from
SWEDEN'S NATIONAL ARCHIVES. mr. hallberg responded me after a short time and
gave me all the information i needed about the kassner family.
i would also like to thank readers of this newsletter who wrote me and
adviced me.
daphna brafman
givatayim israel
daphnabrafman@hotmail.com


RUZHANY = ROUJANA (1835) = RUJANY (nowadays) #belarus

Ewenczyk <ewenczyk@...>
 

I am answering to Rose Feldman, about her question on Ryzhanu Yzkor book
and the various shtetel names she listed.

I am trying to verify the correct names of the following communities. I
found them in the Ruzhany Yizkor book - in hebrew
Constantinova
Kolozovy
Koliny
Shipic
Liskova
They must be near Ruzhany because they are included in the Ruzhany Yizkor
book.
I am transliterating the list of names >from the book.
Rose Feldman

I have in my possession a 1835 map which I scanned to find answers.
It seems that RUZHANY was then spelled ROUJANA, located in the GRODNO
Gouberni, about 35 km South-West of SLONIM, on the road to Brest-Litovsk
(capital of Brest region, W Belarus). The modern name may be RUJANY.
Have a look at http://nacbibl.org.by/balet/en/history.html . You will
find the name RUJANY, associated with other Berlarus town names.
I could locate only one of the other community names. I assume the other
places must have been too small for the cartographer to enter them in
the map. I thought it would show even small shtetels, but I must be wrong.
LISKOVA = LYSKOV, 15 km >from Roujana

I hope this will provide you with a first lead to follow the track.

Daniel Ewenczyk
Paris, France

Searching for : EWENCZYK / EVENCHIK / REZEPTOR and variants (no matter
the town or province)


Belarus SIG #Belarus RUZHANY = ROUJANA (1835) = RUJANY (nowadays) #belarus

Ewenczyk <ewenczyk@...>
 

I am answering to Rose Feldman, about her question on Ryzhanu Yzkor book
and the various shtetel names she listed.

I am trying to verify the correct names of the following communities. I
found them in the Ruzhany Yizkor book - in hebrew
Constantinova
Kolozovy
Koliny
Shipic
Liskova
They must be near Ruzhany because they are included in the Ruzhany Yizkor
book.
I am transliterating the list of names >from the book.
Rose Feldman

I have in my possession a 1835 map which I scanned to find answers.
It seems that RUZHANY was then spelled ROUJANA, located in the GRODNO
Gouberni, about 35 km South-West of SLONIM, on the road to Brest-Litovsk
(capital of Brest region, W Belarus). The modern name may be RUJANY.
Have a look at http://nacbibl.org.by/balet/en/history.html . You will
find the name RUJANY, associated with other Berlarus town names.
I could locate only one of the other community names. I assume the other
places must have been too small for the cartographer to enter them in
the map. I thought it would show even small shtetels, but I must be wrong.
LISKOVA = LYSKOV, 15 km >from Roujana

I hope this will provide you with a first lead to follow the track.

Daniel Ewenczyk
Paris, France

Searching for : EWENCZYK / EVENCHIK / REZEPTOR and variants (no matter
the town or province)


Re: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Counples* #general

Merle Kastner <merlek@...>
 

Hi Trudy,

I have the word "Partner" in my Family Tree Program - I use
version 10, but it was in an earlier version, as well. I feel that
this covers all bases pretty well.
You don't have to attach the children to the 'new partner', but
just leave them as part of the earlier union.
Hope this helps.

Merle Kastner
Montreal, Canada
merlek@videotron.ca
--------------------

Subject: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Counples*
From: "Trudy Barch" cousintrudy@comcast.net

Hi friends,

I have come upon a new problem and was wondering how others have solved it.

A cousin lives with their 'significant other'. They have children
together or >from a previous marriage. The couple has not married.

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'

Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples? >>>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Counples* #general

Merle Kastner <merlek@...>
 

Hi Trudy,

I have the word "Partner" in my Family Tree Program - I use
version 10, but it was in an earlier version, as well. I feel that
this covers all bases pretty well.
You don't have to attach the children to the 'new partner', but
just leave them as part of the earlier union.
Hope this helps.

Merle Kastner
Montreal, Canada
merlek@videotron.ca
--------------------

Subject: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Counples*
From: "Trudy Barch" cousintrudy@comcast.net

Hi friends,

I have come upon a new problem and was wondering how others have solved it.

A cousin lives with their 'significant other'. They have children
together or >from a previous marriage. The couple has not married.

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'

Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples? >>>


Re: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Couples* #general

Dick Plotz
 

Trudy Barch asked:

I have come upon a new problem and was wondering how others have solved
it.

A cousin lives with their 'significant other'. They have children
together or >from a previous marriage. The couple has not married.

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'

Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples?
The answers to these questions will depend heavily on the format of
your tree. Each genealogy program has different options for
indicating these and other non-traditional forms of relationship;
with some you will find it easy to create distinguishing formats
(or find them ready-made), while with others it is simply impossible.
Discussion of the ins and outs of particular genealogy programs is
not specific to *Jewish* genealogy, and is offtopic in this group,
but the newsgroup soc.genealogy.computing provides a forum for these
discussions.

When I have wanted to include unmarried couples, with or without
children, in a *narrative* presentation of my trees, I include an
appropriate note, such as "not m. to" instead of "m.". For
same-sex couples, I use "p." (for "partnered"). And in the one
case so far of a married same-sex couple, I simply use "m.". But
these are my own adaptations, and you will have to decide what
works for you. There is no generally accepted standard.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: *Significant Other* and *Same Sex Couples* #general

Dick Plotz
 

Trudy Barch asked:

I have come upon a new problem and was wondering how others have solved
it.

A cousin lives with their 'significant other'. They have children
together or >from a previous marriage. The couple has not married.

How do I mark my files? Can't say 'spouse' but should acknowledge
'significant other and child'

Also, how do I mark 'same sex' couples?
The answers to these questions will depend heavily on the format of
your tree. Each genealogy program has different options for
indicating these and other non-traditional forms of relationship;
with some you will find it easy to create distinguishing formats
(or find them ready-made), while with others it is simply impossible.
Discussion of the ins and outs of particular genealogy programs is
not specific to *Jewish* genealogy, and is offtopic in this group,
but the newsgroup soc.genealogy.computing provides a forum for these
discussions.

When I have wanted to include unmarried couples, with or without
children, in a *narrative* presentation of my trees, I include an
appropriate note, such as "not m. to" instead of "m.". For
same-sex couples, I use "p." (for "partnered"). And in the one
case so far of a married same-sex couple, I simply use "m.". But
these are my own adaptations, and you will have to decide what
works for you. There is no generally accepted standard.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA


JACOB Family #general

Rick Champagne <scitex@...>
 

Need help connectiong Marie Eve JACOB born 1737 in
Alsace, France. Her father was Christian Pere JACOB.
Marie Eve JACOB married a George KERNER and they had a
daughter Marie Eva KERN born 30 August 1845.

Thanks
Rick Champagne


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JACOB Family #general

Rick Champagne <scitex@...>
 

Need help connectiong Marie Eve JACOB born 1737 in
Alsace, France. Her father was Christian Pere JACOB.
Marie Eve JACOB married a George KERNER and they had a
daughter Marie Eva KERN born 30 August 1845.

Thanks
Rick Champagne


Rumanian Jewish Heritage website #romania

MHKalman/GFRenk
 

http://www.romanianjewish.org/
Just a note to let everyone know
that this is a wonderful recent website
about the Jewish Community in Rumania,
both historical and present day.
They have an email update list as well
as many photos and reports.
Shalom

Marilyn Kalman
Vancouver BC Canada
MODERATOR NOTE: Sometimes you may have trouble connecting to the site
or trying to navigate within the site.


Romania SIG #Romania Rumanian Jewish Heritage website #romania

MHKalman/GFRenk
 

http://www.romanianjewish.org/
Just a note to let everyone know
that this is a wonderful recent website
about the Jewish Community in Rumania,
both historical and present day.
They have an email update list as well
as many photos and reports.
Shalom

Marilyn Kalman
Vancouver BC Canada
MODERATOR NOTE: Sometimes you may have trouble connecting to the site
or trying to navigate within the site.


Re: "Warschan, Russia" #general

Gary Mokotoff <mokotoff@...>
 

The Ellis Island Data Base is riddled with spelling errors. The German
spelling for Warsaw, Poland, is Warschau. The letter "u" and "n" look alike
in script, so the person extracting the information, knowing nothing about
the geography of Eastern Europe, misinterpreted the name and produced the
name "Warschan."

About a year ago, I contacted the Statue of Liberty / Ellis Island
Foundation and offered to muster a volunteer effort to clean up the town
names in the EIDB but they turned me down.

Gary Mokotoff


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "Warschan, Russia" #general

Gary Mokotoff <mokotoff@...>
 

The Ellis Island Data Base is riddled with spelling errors. The German
spelling for Warsaw, Poland, is Warschau. The letter "u" and "n" look alike
in script, so the person extracting the information, knowing nothing about
the geography of Eastern Europe, misinterpreted the name and produced the
name "Warschan."

About a year ago, I contacted the Statue of Liberty / Ellis Island
Foundation and offered to muster a volunteer effort to clean up the town
names in the EIDB but they turned me down.

Gary Mokotoff