Hi All

Looking for descendents of of Angel JOSEPH, b London England
Jan 1845, m Esther Solomons (b 1857) Denver City 1872). Angel
was the son of Solomon and Jane Joseph of Sam's Coffee House,
London.

Angel and Esther had 9 children born in Los Angeles and San
Francisco, California

Pauline b Apr 1875
Julia b 1877
Jane b Apr 1879 m Seymour B Goodman (4 Sep 1879 - 7 Jul1962)
child Blanche
Saul A b 28 Dec 1880 d 21 Sep 1950 m. Lottie b 1885 children
Saul A & Anna B
son b 1882 (a Julius Joseph died 1882 age 4 months in San
Francisco)
Abraham b Apr 1886 m Sadie b 1886
Julius A b 17 Mar 1888 d 27 Aug 1980
Ira b 1 Jan 1890 d 9 Jan 1853 m Lillian
Gladys b Apr 1892

If any of this info looks familiar, please contact me?

Phil Lipshut
Melbourne, Australia

researching Goldhill, Joseph, Moss, Solomon/s (London), Levy
(Birmingham), Lipschitz (Vilnius, Lithuania), Nettleberg (Poznan,
Poland)

Hi All

Looking for descendents of of Angel JOSEPH, b London England
Jan 1845, m Esther Solomons (b 1857) Denver City 1872). Angel
was the son of Solomon and Jane Joseph of Sam's Coffee House,
London.

Angel and Esther had 9 children born in Los Angeles and San
Francisco, California

Pauline b Apr 1875
Julia b 1877
Jane b Apr 1879 m Seymour B Goodman (4 Sep 1879 - 7 Jul1962)
child Blanche
Saul A b 28 Dec 1880 d 21 Sep 1950 m. Lottie b 1885 children
Saul A & Anna B
son b 1882 (a Julius Joseph died 1882 age 4 months in San
Francisco)
Abraham b Apr 1886 m Sadie b 1886
Julius A b 17 Mar 1888 d 27 Aug 1980
Ira b 1 Jan 1890 d 9 Jan 1853 m Lillian
Gladys b Apr 1892

If any of this info looks familiar, please contact me?

Phil Lipshut
Melbourne, Australia

researching Goldhill, Joseph, Moss, Solomon/s (London), Levy
(Birmingham), Lipschitz (Vilnius, Lithuania), Nettleberg (Poznan,
Poland)

There are messages circulating that try to make it appear
as if they are coming >from the JewishGen Discussion Group.
These are forgeries and contain a vi*rus in an attachment..

Please note that the messages are **not** coming >from
JewishGen@lyris.jewishgen.org but >from jewishgen@mybluelight.com
which could also be forged.

We've said it before, we will say it again - JewishGen does
**not** send attachments. There is no way that our systems
can send vi*ruses, all outgoing mail is screened.

If you are using the internet without vi*rus protection on your
system, you are living dangerously. Is this the way you want to
start 2003?

Let's all make certain we are protected, and that will protect
all with whom we exchange e-mail.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy and protected New Year.

Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

There are messages circulating that try to make it appear
as if they are coming >from the JewishGen Discussion Group.
These are forgeries and contain a vi*rus in an attachment..

Please note that the messages are **not** coming >from
JewishGen@lyris.jewishgen.org but >from jewishgen@mybluelight.com
which could also be forged.

We've said it before, we will say it again - JewishGen does
**not** send attachments. There is no way that our systems
can send vi*ruses, all outgoing mail is screened.

If you are using the internet without vi*rus protection on your
system, you are living dangerously. Is this the way you want to
start 2003?

Let's all make certain we are protected, and that will protect
all with whom we exchange e-mail.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy and protected New Year.

Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects

A recent posting asked whether a Ketuba is in Yiddish or Hebrew.

The traditional Ketuba is written in Aramaic with a few Hebrew
phrases (particularly the date and location); in Israel today, I
believe, it is sometimes all Hebrew. In some branches of Judaism
the Ketuba is written in the local language, e.g. English, and
there is always an option to have a local-language Ketuba, too;
often it's printed on the back of the traditional one.

I very much doubt that Ketubot were written in Yiddish in the 19th
century.

Also, the traditional Ketuba uses the formal Hebrew names for both
bride and groom. The surname is not usually given, only the Hebrew
names of the two partners and the names of their respective fathers.
Unless one has some idea of time, location, Hebrew name of bride
and groom, or fathers' name, it would be hard to determine whether
a specific Ketuba is that of an ancestor known primarily by surname.

The T'naim, on the other hand, contract at time of engagement, might
very well have been in Yiddish.

I've finally been able to view the specific ketuba and I will relay
the personal details privately, as requested. The ketuba was printed
in Cheethan, Manchester, UK, in standard Aramaic and Hebrew. I can't
make out any surnames (if there are any), but the groom was a Levite,
which might help confirm or eliminate the question about whose ketuba
it was.

A Ketuba was commonly preprinted. The handwritten info useful to
researchers includes:
- date (in Hebrew)
- name of bride and groom (Hebrew) and their fathers (Henrew)
- whether the bride (but not the groom) is unmarried, widowed or
divorced
- the amount of the "official" dowry (usually a standard 100 zuzim;
which is halved in the case of a previously married woman), and then
the groom "generously" doubles the standard sum (he is free to add
more money, which may or may not be recorded in the ketuba)

Michael Bernet,
New York

Just wanted to let you know that I have been set straight and I
now know the katubot on VM2038 is written in Aramaic, not Yiddish
or Hebrew. Of course, it goes without saying, I can't read Aramaic
either!

Best regards,

Connie Fisher Newhan

Hi JGeners

I am searching for a friend who was born in Milwaukee
Wisconsin. Her maiden name is Marian CHUDNOW. She had
a brother named Jerome. Please reply privately.

Louis A. Fine
Bellingham WA
E-mail: loufine@attbi.com

A recent posting asked whether a Ketuba is in Yiddish or Hebrew.

The traditional Ketuba is written in Aramaic with a few Hebrew
phrases (particularly the date and location); in Israel today, I
believe, it is sometimes all Hebrew. In some branches of Judaism
the Ketuba is written in the local language, e.g. English, and
there is always an option to have a local-language Ketuba, too;
often it's printed on the back of the traditional one.

I very much doubt that Ketubot were written in Yiddish in the 19th
century.

Also, the traditional Ketuba uses the formal Hebrew names for both
bride and groom. The surname is not usually given, only the Hebrew
names of the two partners and the names of their respective fathers.
Unless one has some idea of time, location, Hebrew name of bride
and groom, or fathers' name, it would be hard to determine whether
a specific Ketuba is that of an ancestor known primarily by surname.

The T'naim, on the other hand, contract at time of engagement, might
very well have been in Yiddish.

I've finally been able to view the specific ketuba and I will relay
the personal details privately, as requested. The ketuba was printed
in Cheethan, Manchester, UK, in standard Aramaic and Hebrew. I can't
make out any surnames (if there are any), but the groom was a Levite,
which might help confirm or eliminate the question about whose ketuba
it was.

A Ketuba was commonly preprinted. The handwritten info useful to
researchers includes:
- date (in Hebrew)
- name of bride and groom (Hebrew) and their fathers (Henrew)
- whether the bride (but not the groom) is unmarried, widowed or
divorced
- the amount of the "official" dowry (usually a standard 100 zuzim;
which is halved in the case of a previously married woman), and then
the groom "generously" doubles the standard sum (he is free to add
more money, which may or may not be recorded in the ketuba)

Michael Bernet,
New York

Just wanted to let you know that I have been set straight and I
now know the katubot on VM2038 is written in Aramaic, not Yiddish
or Hebrew. Of course, it goes without saying, I can't read Aramaic
either!

Best regards,

Connie Fisher Newhan

Hi JGeners

I am searching for a friend who was born in Milwaukee
Wisconsin. Her maiden name is Marian CHUDNOW. She had
a brother named Jerome. Please reply privately.

Louis A. Fine
Bellingham WA
E-mail: loufine@attbi.com

JGS Palm Beach County, FL will host their annual Lunch and
Learn event.

Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 12 Noon
Westchester Country Club - Boynton Beach, FL

Guest Speaker:
Dr. Stephen P. Morse, world renowned genealogical computer
professional, who has developed One Step methods for researching
the Ellis Island Database, 1930 Census, Social Security Death
Index (SSDI) and several other pertinent research databases.

Cost to Members: $18; non-members $25.
Reservations to: Betty Perloe, BNP 1925@aol.com or Natalie
Hamburg, Jakies51@aol.com.

Dr. Marvin Hamburg, President

JGS Palm Beach County, FL will host their annual Lunch and
Learn event.

Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 12 Noon
Westchester Country Club - Boynton Beach, FL

Guest Speaker:
Dr. Stephen P. Morse, world renowned genealogical computer
professional, who has developed One Step methods for researching
the Ellis Island Database, 1930 Census, Social Security Death
Index (SSDI) and several other pertinent research databases.

Cost to Members: $18; non-members $25.
Reservations to: Betty Perloe, BNP 1925@aol.com or Natalie
Hamburg, Jakies51@aol.com.

Dr. Marvin Hamburg, President

Friends
A convenient source is
at <<http://www.italiangen.org/southern_district_records_intro.stm > if
applied in NYC.

Bernard Sivak
Ann Arbor, MI

Friends
A convenient source is
at <<http://www.italiangen.org/southern_district_records_intro.stm > if
applied in NYC.

Bernard Sivak
Ann Arbor, MI

I again want to thank the many of you who have helped me unravel the
mystery of our Yichus, in Europe, Scranton, and Israel. B"H I have
clearly tracked my paternal great-grandparents back to Europe: My
father's father's family FRISCHMAN to Beregszasz, now in the Ukraine,
and just a few miles >from Munkacz, and my father's mother's family
SCHWARTZ to Michalovce/Revisce, just across the border in Slovakia, and
also just 20 or so miles >from Munkacz. It also turns out that my
father's grandfather's mother's maiden name was SHMULEWITZ, and so either
the Scranton name change I mentioned in an earlier email was from
SCHWARTZ to SHMULEWITZ and not visa-versa as I previously reported, or
the Shmulewitz's were cousins and not brothers of my ggf Josef SCHWARTZ.
There are still many other unanswered questions, particularly on the
FRISCHMAN side, so any additional help is sincerely appreciated.

Yehuda Frischman
Los Angeles

I have engaged a genealogical researcher in Iasi and begun to receive
supposed copies of birth and marriage certificates for the period between
1850-1900. Can anyone suggest an authoritative third party that can
substantiate the authenticity of these documents?

Some of the documents appear to be recent transcriptions but without any
sort of State Seal or other governmental mark to substantiate their origin.
I have got to be as sure as possible that the documents provided are not
bogus.

Thanks to any and all for your anticipated help in this matter.

Michael Pearl
Roxbury Township, NJ
mailto: mpearl@earthlink.net

I again want to thank the many of you who have helped me unravel the
mystery of our Yichus, in Europe, Scranton, and Israel. B"H I have
clearly tracked my paternal great-grandparents back to Europe: My
father's father's family FRISCHMAN to Beregszasz, now in the Ukraine,
and just a few miles >from Munkacz, and my father's mother's family
SCHWARTZ to Michalovce/Revisce, just across the border in Slovakia, and
also just 20 or so miles >from Munkacz. It also turns out that my
father's grandfather's mother's maiden name was SHMULEWITZ, and so either
the Scranton name change I mentioned in an earlier email was from
SCHWARTZ to SHMULEWITZ and not visa-versa as I previously reported, or
the Shmulewitz's were cousins and not brothers of my ggf Josef SCHWARTZ.
There are still many other unanswered questions, particularly on the
FRISCHMAN side, so any additional help is sincerely appreciated.

Yehuda Frischman
Los Angeles

I have engaged a genealogical researcher in Iasi and begun to receive
supposed copies of birth and marriage certificates for the period between
1850-1900. Can anyone suggest an authoritative third party that can
substantiate the authenticity of these documents?

Some of the documents appear to be recent transcriptions but without any
sort of State Seal or other governmental mark to substantiate their origin.
I have got to be as sure as possible that the documents provided are not
bogus.

Thanks to any and all for your anticipated help in this matter.

Michael Pearl
Roxbury Township, NJ
mailto: mpearl@earthlink.net

My father worked as an electronic engineer for Sylvania around
1950....
Please respond privately unless you have suggestions of a
general nature on how to find corporate archives.

Don't know if this will help. Most newspapers have an Action
Line or something similar where people can email or write in
for help and Action Line or its counterpart will make efforts
to find the corporate entity. Some times they even reach a party
who has the info and offers to send it to you. It's a free
service of the newspaper.

Also if I remember correctly Sylvania was a major brand sold
only by Sears, now it is Kenmore. Try looking under that brand
name....and contact Sears too.

Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and
Brooklyn, NY; PINKUS and WINOGRAD-Brest, Litovok maybe Odessa,
Ukraine, and Brooklyn, NY; GELFAND, YEHUDIS, KATZ-Minsk and
Bronx, NY

My father worked as an electronic engineer for Sylvania around
1950....
Please respond privately unless you have suggestions of a
general nature on how to find corporate archives.

Don't know if this will help. Most newspapers have an Action
Line or something similar where people can email or write in
for help and Action Line or its counterpart will make efforts
to find the corporate entity. Some times they even reach a party
who has the info and offers to send it to you. It's a free
service of the newspaper.

Also if I remember correctly Sylvania was a major brand sold
only by Sears, now it is Kenmore. Try looking under that brand
name....and contact Sears too.

Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and
Brooklyn, NY; PINKUS and WINOGRAD-Brest, Litovok maybe Odessa,
Ukraine, and Brooklyn, NY; GELFAND, YEHUDIS, KATZ-Minsk and
Bronx, NY