In a message dated 12/23/2002 10:38:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
barkie@bellsouth.net writes:

<< My grandfather's name in Austria was Schaje. His younger
brother's name was Schycha. I don't guarantee spelling accuracy,
nor do I know how to pronounce either. After my grandfather came
to America, he changed his name to Sam. A year later, his brother
came, and also declared himself to be named Sam. >from then on,
two brothers named Sam. :) >>

==There's an answer to this, I'm sure. Schaye's "real" name was
Yeshayahu (i.e. Isaiah). Schaye is a very common Yiddish rendering
of the biblical name
==Schycha is more problematic and I believe there may be a
mistransliteration. Shimche or Shimke would be Yiddish for Simchah;
Shimshe would be Yiddish for Shimshon (biblical Samson--there you
get the Sam); Shimshe might also stand for Shim`on (Simon); other
alternatives are Sishyeh (Siskind or Sismann).

I assume each initially used the original name in family, neighbor
and synagogue setting and the Sam name only in contact with civil
authorities, Gentiles, work. By the time the Sam name was used
closer to home it would probably be modified with Rivke's [wife's
name] Sam, or Norfolk Street Sam, or Cobbler Sam, and everyone know
who was being talked about.

Michael Bernet New York mBernet@aol.com.

Someone by the name of Joel wrote to a possible cousin asking
for information. The message was dated >from June 2000. Joel's
email at that time was :

Jmsall@aol.com.

Joel said he had family >from Courland, >from Bauske and Talsen in
particular. He said his great grandfather was Avram Iddle who
had brothers Noach, Hirsche, and Chaim and sisters Beila and Leah.

Meantime, I only found out about this fellow's quest this week
and his email address is no long valid. Does anyone know who this
might be and what current email he might have?

Many thanks, Martha

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion
President, SIG Latvia

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Hello Genners,

Eva Berlin was looking for a telephone/fax number for the
Haganah Archives. A simple Yahoo search for "Haganah Archives"
led me to:

The Haganah Archives
23, Rothschild Blvd.
66882 Tel Aviv
Tel. (03) 560 37 15
Fax (03) 566 12 08

Hope this is what Eva Berlin and others are looking for.

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@aol.com

Eva Berlin wrote

My efforts to try to locate a long lostfamily member has led
me to the Haganah Archives in Israel. However I'm unable to
locate on the internet a telephone number or fax or any email
for those who oversee Haganan records.

Here are the full details:

Archiyon Hahagana (Ha'Hagana Archives)
23, Rotchild Blvd.
Tel Aviv (Zip code: 66-882)
Israel

Telephon No.: (Israel) 03-5660395
e-mail address: mmintr88@netvision.net.il

Rony Golan
Israel

In a message dated 12/23/2002 10:38:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
barkie@bellsouth.net writes:

<< My grandfather's name in Austria was Schaje. His younger
brother's name was Schycha. I don't guarantee spelling accuracy,
nor do I know how to pronounce either. After my grandfather came
to America, he changed his name to Sam. A year later, his brother
came, and also declared himself to be named Sam. >from then on,
two brothers named Sam. :) >>

==There's an answer to this, I'm sure. Schaye's "real" name was
Yeshayahu (i.e. Isaiah). Schaye is a very common Yiddish rendering
of the biblical name
==Schycha is more problematic and I believe there may be a
mistransliteration. Shimche or Shimke would be Yiddish for Simchah;
Shimshe would be Yiddish for Shimshon (biblical Samson--there you
get the Sam); Shimshe might also stand for Shim`on (Simon); other
alternatives are Sishyeh (Siskind or Sismann).

I assume each initially used the original name in family, neighbor
and synagogue setting and the Sam name only in contact with civil
authorities, Gentiles, work. By the time the Sam name was used
closer to home it would probably be modified with Rivke's [wife's
name] Sam, or Norfolk Street Sam, or Cobbler Sam, and everyone know
who was being talked about.

Michael Bernet New York mBernet@aol.com.

Someone by the name of Joel wrote to a possible cousin asking
for information. The message was dated >from June 2000. Joel's
email at that time was :

Jmsall@aol.com.

Joel said he had family >from Courland, >from Bauske and Talsen in
particular. He said his great grandfather was Avram Iddle who
had brothers Noach, Hirsche, and Chaim and sisters Beila and Leah.

Meantime, I only found out about this fellow's quest this week
and his email address is no long valid. Does anyone know who this
might be and what current email he might have?

Many thanks, Martha

Martha Levinson Lev-Zion
President, SIG Latvia

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Hello Genners,

Eva Berlin was looking for a telephone/fax number for the
Haganah Archives. A simple Yahoo search for "Haganah Archives"
led me to:

The Haganah Archives
23, Rothschild Blvd.
66882 Tel Aviv
Tel. (03) 560 37 15
Fax (03) 566 12 08

Hope this is what Eva Berlin and others are looking for.

Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@aol.com

Eva Berlin wrote

My efforts to try to locate a long lostfamily member has led
me to the Haganah Archives in Israel. However I'm unable to
locate on the internet a telephone number or fax or any email
for those who oversee Haganan records.

Here are the full details:

Archiyon Hahagana (Ha'Hagana Archives)
23, Rotchild Blvd.
Tel Aviv (Zip code: 66-882)
Israel

Telephon No.: (Israel) 03-5660395
e-mail address: mmintr88@netvision.net.il

Rony Golan
Israel

People were very loose with their names. In my family, Israel
Chaimovich became Chaim over here (although the manifest reads
"Israel") and but called himself Morris and was also known as
Hyman. Another member: Moshe became Morris which became Miguel
(on his migration to Argentina).

People changed their names quite readily and easily. As my
relative did, he used his shortened middle name (patronymic) but
then somehow became Morris.

It's all in a day's work.

Anita Citron
anitac47@optonline.net
Hicksville, NY
NADWORNY, SILVER, FLEISHER(Odessa, St.Petersburg), BENDERSKY
(Ladyzhin/Odessa),ODESSKY(Lipovets/Odessa), NEPOMNYATSHY
(Voznesensk/Odessa), TRACHTENBERG (Gritsev/Starykonstantinov/
Odessa/Vienna/Belgium), FURMAN (Pyatkovko/Odessa), FINGERHUT/
FINGERET (Ananyev/Voznesensk/Odessa), MEDNIK/WILDMAN (Berdichev)

People were very loose with their names. In my family, Israel
Chaimovich became Chaim over here (although the manifest reads
"Israel") and but called himself Morris and was also known as
Hyman. Another member: Moshe became Morris which became Miguel
(on his migration to Argentina).

People changed their names quite readily and easily. As my
relative did, he used his shortened middle name (patronymic) but
then somehow became Morris.

It's all in a day's work.

Anita Citron
anitac47@optonline.net
Hicksville, NY
NADWORNY, SILVER, FLEISHER(Odessa, St.Petersburg), BENDERSKY
(Ladyzhin/Odessa),ODESSKY(Lipovets/Odessa), NEPOMNYATSHY
(Voznesensk/Odessa), TRACHTENBERG (Gritsev/Starykonstantinov/
Odessa/Vienna/Belgium), FURMAN (Pyatkovko/Odessa), FINGERHUT/
FINGERET (Ananyev/Voznesensk/Odessa), MEDNIK/WILDMAN (Berdichev)

I am still looking for information on my father, Morris Fried. I believe he and other members of his family changed their name when they got to this country or before they left Europe. There was a large part of the family in the New York area. My mother came to this country >from Grodna gubernia shtetle Dretchen. I think she was 9 years old and came with her sister in law and 2 neices and nephews. I can find the ship the sister in law came on but not my mother. anyone having information of anyone of either name and location please
respond.
Judith Nitzberg, San Francisco, California

I am still looking for information on my father, Morris Fried. I believe he and other members of his family changed their name when they got to this country or before they left Europe. There was a large part of the family in the New York area. My mother came to this country >from Grodna gubernia shtetle Dretchen. I think she was 9 years old and came with her sister in law and 2 neices and nephews. I can find the ship the sister in law came on but not my mother. anyone having information of anyone of either name and location please
respond.
Judith Nitzberg, San Francisco, California

Earlier today, Deborah Taffler <taffler@pentagram.co.uk> wrote:

[...] the Sephardi rabbi only agreed to the marriage if the young
couple kept the Sephardi name: AZULAI. (The Ashkenazi name is
MANDELBAUM, possibly Simcha MANDELBAUM [...]

According to David Tidhar's Encyclopedia of Jewish luminaries in
Palestine, vol. 2 p. 657 (Jerusalem 1947 - in Hebrew), Baruch TOROWER,
who was descended >from R. Joel SIRKIS and traced his ancestry to
Rashi, married Faige, daughter of Hayyim Yosef David AZULAI (probably
a descendant of the HIDA) in 1878, and changed his name to AZULAI. His
brother was Simcha MANDELBAUM. His children wer Judah, Henia Berger,
Abraham, Shalom, Esther Schwartz, Isaiah (who went to the US) and
Hanna Segal

A curiosity. About 40 years ago when I was a student in Jerusalem I
rented a room on Kikar Shabbat corner of Mea Shearim >from a Yiddish
speaking Ashkenazi called Hayyim Yosef David Azulay.

Benjamin Richler

Earlier today, Deborah Taffler <taffler@pentagram.co.uk> wrote:

[...] the Sephardi rabbi only agreed to the marriage if the young
couple kept the Sephardi name: AZULAI. (The Ashkenazi name is
MANDELBAUM, possibly Simcha MANDELBAUM [...]

According to David Tidhar's Encyclopedia of Jewish luminaries in
Palestine, vol. 2 p. 657 (Jerusalem 1947 - in Hebrew), Baruch TOROWER,
who was descended >from R. Joel SIRKIS and traced his ancestry to
Rashi, married Faige, daughter of Hayyim Yosef David AZULAI (probably
a descendant of the HIDA) in 1878, and changed his name to AZULAI. His
brother was Simcha MANDELBAUM. His children wer Judah, Henia Berger,
Abraham, Shalom, Esther Schwartz, Isaiah (who went to the US) and
Hanna Segal

A curiosity. About 40 years ago when I was a student in Jerusalem I
rented a room on Kikar Shabbat corner of Mea Shearim >from a Yiddish
speaking Ashkenazi called Hayyim Yosef David Azulay.

Benjamin Richler

Hello
I am the guilty person who suggested you can write the polish
Archives by email. I should have mentioned you can get the
addresses by going to Google and typing in: Archiwum (town name)
Regards
Lili Susser
Susserl@attbi.com

Hello
I am the guilty person who suggested you can write the polish
Archives by email. I should have mentioned you can get the
addresses by going to Google and typing in: Archiwum (town name)
Regards
Lili Susser
Susserl@attbi.com

Thanks to all those who replied regarding my message about three
generations and three different chassiduyot.

Very interesting.

Yoni Ben-Ari

Thanks to all those who replied regarding my message about three
generations and three different chassiduyot.

Very interesting.

Yoni Ben-Ari

Hi Genners,

This message is for Susan who asked about the name Shabsha.

A famous person in Jewish history was Shabbetai Zevi,(various spellings),
who thought he was a messiah (how appropriate for today).
You will find an article about him in the Encyclopedia Judaica or any other
history book on 17th century Judaism.
Your name Shabsha sounds like a version of this first name. It is a good
name, not necessarily with negative connotations. It was usually given to
someone who was born on the Sabbath.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer
Palm Beach, Florida

Hi Genners,

This message is for Susan who asked about the name Shabsha.

A famous person in Jewish history was Shabbetai Zevi,(various spellings),
who thought he was a messiah (how appropriate for today).
You will find an article about him in the Encyclopedia Judaica or any other
history book on 17th century Judaism.
Your name Shabsha sounds like a version of this first name. It is a good
name, not necessarily with negative connotations. It was usually given to
someone who was born on the Sabbath.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer
Palm Beach, Florida