The Pity of it All: A History of Jews in Germany, 1743-1933 by Amos Elon.
Metropolitan Books. 464 pp. $30

has been widely praised by reviewers. I've put it on my must-buy list

Michael Bernet Suburban NYC mbernet@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: I've been reading it. The reviewers are right (in my
opinion).

I wonder why the moderator didn't also mention the Shtetl-Seeker at
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker .

In any case using JGFF, nothing turns up spelled Cumingke and nothing
resembling it in Romania. However there are lots of variations in the
Ukraine, mostly spelled Kamenka or Kamencha. In fact, there is one
researcher listed for Bronstein in Kamencha, Ukraine.

Shtetl-Seeker turns up many more variations of spellings in many
countries including Romania but many more in Ukraine.

Note that these two sources try to keep current names of towns and their
location within current borders. When in doubt or an initial search
turns up nothing, try using a Soundex search and/or try specifying "Any
Country"

Bernie Levy
Stamford, CT

Researching:
KAUDERER, BURG, ALTMAN - Bukowina area in Ukraine, e.g. Beregomet, Migovo
LEVY, POSMONTIER - Biezun (?), Poland
ACKERMAN - Kretinga, Lithuania
DREBIN/DREBEN - Lithuania; Poltava, Ukraine

On 12/19/2002 7:43 PM Winton Pitcoff wrote

[snip]

The Pity of it All: A History of Jews in Germany, 1743-1933 by Amos Elon.
Metropolitan Books. 464 pp. $30

has been widely praised by reviewers. I've put it on my must-buy list

Michael Bernet Suburban NYC mbernet@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: I've been reading it. The reviewers are right (in my
opinion).

I wonder why the moderator didn't also mention the Shtetl-Seeker at
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker .

In any case using JGFF, nothing turns up spelled Cumingke and nothing
resembling it in Romania. However there are lots of variations in the
Ukraine, mostly spelled Kamenka or Kamencha. In fact, there is one
researcher listed for Bronstein in Kamencha, Ukraine.

Shtetl-Seeker turns up many more variations of spellings in many
countries including Romania but many more in Ukraine.

Note that these two sources try to keep current names of towns and their
location within current borders. When in doubt or an initial search
turns up nothing, try using a Soundex search and/or try specifying "Any
Country"

Bernie Levy
Stamford, CT

Researching:
KAUDERER, BURG, ALTMAN - Bukowina area in Ukraine, e.g. Beregomet, Migovo
LEVY, POSMONTIER - Biezun (?), Poland
ACKERMAN - Kretinga, Lithuania
DREBIN/DREBEN - Lithuania; Poltava, Ukraine

On 12/19/2002 7:43 PM Winton Pitcoff wrote

[snip]

For an article I'm writing on Jewish genealogy, I seek the correct text
for a statement made by Benjamin Disraeli in the House of Commons.

Here is the rough paraphrase:

"While the ancestors of right honorable gentleman for Upper Ordure were
walking around dressed in pelts and woad, my ancestors were signing psalms
to the Lord in the temple of King Solomon."

Does anyone have the correct text?

Thanks

Michael Bernet New York mBernet@aol.com.

For an article I'm writing on Jewish genealogy, I seek the correct text
for a statement made by Benjamin Disraeli in the House of Commons.

Here is the rough paraphrase:

"While the ancestors of right honorable gentleman for Upper Ordure were
walking around dressed in pelts and woad, my ancestors were signing psalms
to the Lord in the temple of King Solomon."

Does anyone have the correct text?

Thanks

Michael Bernet New York mBernet@aol.com.

ebf2001@comcast.net writes:

<< I'd be curious to learn what other people have experienced in terms of
length of time for the search and results.
>>

Although Evan Fishman requested a private response, as the volunteer in
charge of the Holocaust Tracing Program in the Greater New York Red Cross,
it might be helpful to other genners if I posted this to the whole group.

When anyone in the United States initiates a request \tfor a search for
relatives presumed lost in WWII -- there is a strict international
protocol that must be followed:

1) You submit your request (form #1609) to your local Red Cross Holocaust
tracing office.

2) They review it to ensure that all the mandated information has been
filled out and sign off on it.

3) It is sent to the National WWII Tracing Office in Baltimore where the
volunteers there will open a file and make a determination, based on what
you have written, which European Red Cross office(s) should receive it. A
typical example, the person you are searching for was born in Poland, may
have moved around in Russia and was then possibly sent to an unknown
concentration camp.

4) If Baltimore has a question about any of the information you filled in,
i.e., they can find no town in Poland that matches the one you named, they
will communicate with your local office who will call or write to you in
order to get more accurate information >from you.

5) In the above example, after having the forms translated into Polish,
Russian and German -- Baltimore will forward your request to the National
Office of the Polish Red Cross in Warsaw, the National Office of the
Russian Red Cross in Moscow, and the Arolson Archives of Concentration
Camp Documents in Germany.

6) According to the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross)
mandate, the Polish and Russian Red Cross National Offices will then open
their own files before forwarding your request to the local Red Cross
office(s) in every place you mentioned that your relative might have lived
or even passed through.

7) Local volunteers in all of these offices will then begin the incredible
time consuming task of going through 60+ year old *hand written* sometimes
crumbling paper records looking for your relative. (None of this has been
computerized). As soon as any bit of information is discovered, it is
routed back through the Baltimore office to your local office and then on
to you.

9) The bad news is that in approximately 35% of the requests, No records
are ever found.

9) The good news is that Baltimore *never* closes your case, and if new
information is discovered 10 years after you asked for it, it will still
be sent to you. In fact, when you think that 65% of the requests for
information receive some sort of response, it is truly amazing.

As you can see, the process is cumbersome and overwhelming. In addition
to all of the genealogists who are looking for their family history, there
are literally thousands who are looking for a date to say kaddish for a
parent -- and many more who are looking for their self documentation in
order to apply for slave labor and property reparations.

How long does it take? In the best of cases, a year or two, more often
three to five years. I just received records >from Bosnia for someone who
had requested a search in 1991, when the war interrupted the search When
it was over, the Bosnian Red Cross continued to look and found our
inquirer's family records.

You are right that It would be totally useless for anyone else to tell you
how long their search took -- since each set of facts are individual. It
also depends on whether the local European office has a two day/week
volunteer or a full time staff of 10!

One thing is *very* important. If you move or change your phone number
and don't update the information with your local office, you stand a good
chance of never receiving any of the information!

So, don't give up. Keep in touch. If the records are there, they'll find
them.

Linda Greenman

Researching GREENMAN/RESNICK/RUSHEVSKY/RUSH/SHERETSHEVSKY/
SHERRY >from Antopol, NY and Alabama.
RAFALOWSKI/RAFF/FISHBEIN >from Miedzyzrec/Bialystok and NY.
PLOCIENKO/CALECKI/HERMAN/KLUGER >from Sniadowo/Radzilow/Zambrow and NY,
Paris, Johannesburg.
GREENBERG/COHEN >from Rochester, NY. WEISS >from Mexico City.

I'm writing on behalf of a friend who is researching the family of his
mother, Mindla Weitzmann. She was born around 1878, but it is not known
where. She immigrated to America sometime before the First World War.
Family lore has it that she was related to Dr. Chaim Weitzmann, first
president of Israel. He would like to know if anyone out there knows of a
family tree for Chaim Weitzmann.

Peter Zack
Toronto, Canada

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately

I need help >from anyone in the 'genner community to translate the Hebrew
inscription on my great grandfather's gravesite in Beth El in NJ. His
name was Abraham Harrison.

A photo of the inscription is on ViewMate, VM2015, at the following url.

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=2015

Thank you. Please respond privately.

- jerry

ebf2001@comcast.net writes:

<< I'd be curious to learn what other people have experienced in terms of
length of time for the search and results.
>>

Although Evan Fishman requested a private response, as the volunteer in
charge of the Holocaust Tracing Program in the Greater New York Red Cross,
it might be helpful to other genners if I posted this to the whole group.

When anyone in the United States initiates a request \tfor a search for
relatives presumed lost in WWII -- there is a strict international
protocol that must be followed:

1) You submit your request (form #1609) to your local Red Cross Holocaust
tracing office.

2) They review it to ensure that all the mandated information has been
filled out and sign off on it.

3) It is sent to the National WWII Tracing Office in Baltimore where the
volunteers there will open a file and make a determination, based on what
you have written, which European Red Cross office(s) should receive it. A
typical example, the person you are searching for was born in Poland, may
have moved around in Russia and was then possibly sent to an unknown
concentration camp.

4) If Baltimore has a question about any of the information you filled in,
i.e., they can find no town in Poland that matches the one you named, they
will communicate with your local office who will call or write to you in
order to get more accurate information >from you.

5) In the above example, after having the forms translated into Polish,
Russian and German -- Baltimore will forward your request to the National
Office of the Polish Red Cross in Warsaw, the National Office of the
Russian Red Cross in Moscow, and the Arolson Archives of Concentration
Camp Documents in Germany.

6) According to the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross)
mandate, the Polish and Russian Red Cross National Offices will then open
their own files before forwarding your request to the local Red Cross
office(s) in every place you mentioned that your relative might have lived
or even passed through.

7) Local volunteers in all of these offices will then begin the incredible
time consuming task of going through 60+ year old *hand written* sometimes
crumbling paper records looking for your relative. (None of this has been
computerized). As soon as any bit of information is discovered, it is
routed back through the Baltimore office to your local office and then on
to you.

9) The bad news is that in approximately 35% of the requests, No records
are ever found.

9) The good news is that Baltimore *never* closes your case, and if new
information is discovered 10 years after you asked for it, it will still
be sent to you. In fact, when you think that 65% of the requests for
information receive some sort of response, it is truly amazing.

As you can see, the process is cumbersome and overwhelming. In addition
to all of the genealogists who are looking for their family history, there
are literally thousands who are looking for a date to say kaddish for a
parent -- and many more who are looking for their self documentation in
order to apply for slave labor and property reparations.

How long does it take? In the best of cases, a year or two, more often
three to five years. I just received records >from Bosnia for someone who
had requested a search in 1991, when the war interrupted the search When
it was over, the Bosnian Red Cross continued to look and found our
inquirer's family records.

You are right that It would be totally useless for anyone else to tell you
how long their search took -- since each set of facts are individual. It
also depends on whether the local European office has a two day/week
volunteer or a full time staff of 10!

One thing is *very* important. If you move or change your phone number
and don't update the information with your local office, you stand a good
chance of never receiving any of the information!

So, don't give up. Keep in touch. If the records are there, they'll find
them.

Linda Greenman

Researching GREENMAN/RESNICK/RUSHEVSKY/RUSH/SHERETSHEVSKY/
SHERRY >from Antopol, NY and Alabama.
RAFALOWSKI/RAFF/FISHBEIN >from Miedzyzrec/Bialystok and NY.
PLOCIENKO/CALECKI/HERMAN/KLUGER >from Sniadowo/Radzilow/Zambrow and NY,
Paris, Johannesburg.
GREENBERG/COHEN >from Rochester, NY. WEISS >from Mexico City.

I'm writing on behalf of a friend who is researching the family of his
mother, Mindla Weitzmann. She was born around 1878, but it is not known
where. She immigrated to America sometime before the First World War.
Family lore has it that she was related to Dr. Chaim Weitzmann, first
president of Israel. He would like to know if anyone out there knows of a
family tree for Chaim Weitzmann.

Peter Zack
Toronto, Canada

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately

I need help >from anyone in the 'genner community to translate the Hebrew
inscription on my great grandfather's gravesite in Beth El in NJ. His
name was Abraham Harrison.

A photo of the inscription is on ViewMate, VM2015, at the following url.

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=2015

Thank you. Please respond privately.

- jerry

I'm one of those people who just cringes in embarassment when genealogists
try to make links to well-known people purely because they have a family
surname. While not as gross as stalking, it has always struck me as
childish and often illogical. On the other hand ...

I've always been niggled genealogically by actor Daniel STERN (City
Slickers, Home Alone, Very Bad Things, Rookie of the Year, Hannah and her
Sisters) who, looks-wise does seem to bear a resemblance to my STERN
family >from Heppenheim an der Bergstrasse, Germany. In fact, while not
wishing to blow my genealogist's credibility, I have furtively found out
that he grew up in Bethesda, Maryland and taken out a lot of his movies on
video (!!!!).
Does anybody know anything about this STERN family?

Just to give credibility to my hunch, I have discovered that another actor
I had a vibe about *did* turn out to be related. But then again, I found
that out without having to go through the embarassment of exposing to
daylight my hunch on a mailing list. And of course you'll have to email me
privately if you want to find out who that is because I wouldn't be so
ostentatious as to put it on a public list <grin>.

Alice JOSEPHS
UK
Researching STERN/STARR family, Heppenheim an der Bergstrasse, Hesse,
Germany>Louisville, Kentucky and Portsmouth, Ohio

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately

Long time ago I was in contact with Cohen/Dribin researchers in Texas
I have now we stablished the link between these families and with the
family TOBIANSKI of Minneapolis c 1818 .
Anyone interested please contact me

Aubrey Jacobus
Aubrey@Jacobus.org
London UK

Check my Genealogical webpage
www.mjacobus.freeserve.co.uk
Please use
aubrey@jacobus.org for replies

I'm one of those people who just cringes in embarassment when genealogists
try to make links to well-known people purely because they have a family
surname. While not as gross as stalking, it has always struck me as
childish and often illogical. On the other hand ...

I've always been niggled genealogically by actor Daniel STERN (City
Slickers, Home Alone, Very Bad Things, Rookie of the Year, Hannah and her
Sisters) who, looks-wise does seem to bear a resemblance to my STERN
family >from Heppenheim an der Bergstrasse, Germany. In fact, while not
wishing to blow my genealogist's credibility, I have furtively found out
that he grew up in Bethesda, Maryland and taken out a lot of his movies on
video (!!!!).
Does anybody know anything about this STERN family?

Just to give credibility to my hunch, I have discovered that another actor
I had a vibe about *did* turn out to be related. But then again, I found
that out without having to go through the embarassment of exposing to
daylight my hunch on a mailing list. And of course you'll have to email me
privately if you want to find out who that is because I wouldn't be so
ostentatious as to put it on a public list <grin>.

Alice JOSEPHS
UK
Researching STERN/STARR family, Heppenheim an der Bergstrasse, Hesse,
Germany>Louisville, Kentucky and Portsmouth, Ohio

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately

Long time ago I was in contact with Cohen/Dribin researchers in Texas
I have now we stablished the link between these families and with the
family TOBIANSKI of Minneapolis c 1818 .
Anyone interested please contact me

Aubrey Jacobus
Aubrey@Jacobus.org
London UK

Check my Genealogical webpage
www.mjacobus.freeserve.co.uk
Please use
aubrey@jacobus.org for replies

Dear all.

After over two years of hard labour, I received a note >from my history
professor, saying that the manuscript of my new book will be sent back to
me soon, with his organized opinion. He also assured me that I will not
have to rewrite the book :-))
The book about Jewish families and communities of the province of Posen,
Prussia, was compiled with much help >from many, including members of our
German SIG.
The book contains many translations of articles >from Gothic script to both
English and Hebrew, about several towns in the province, and a lot of
material of general interest.
I hope to be able to publish it in March 2003. It will contain 560 pages on
chromo paper, hard cover, and about 150 documents and photos.
The book will be sold for no financial profit, only $15 a book, in order
to cover its costs.

About the author:
Back in 1970 I was a commander of paratroops squadron. I was badly
injured in Lebanon while leading my soldier to battle against the
terrorists.
Even though I was badly wounded, after over a year of medical treatments
and surgeries, I asked to continue serving my country as an officer and
fighter, and became a commander of squadron of tanks (British Centurions)
on the Golan Heights, where we fought against the Syrians. All that,
however, did not attribute to my health, and I am presently a 100%
disabled war veteran, and today I have to lie down most of the time,
inhaling oxygen.
My situation bought me a lot of free time, which I used to write my first
book between 1997-2000, and now the second one is about to appear.
I would greatly appreciate it if any of you who is interested in
purchasing the book will contact me after reading this note, so that I can
make an estimate as to how many copies of the book I should print. My
first estimate is 800 copies.

Best regards.
Udi Cain, Jerusalem.

p.s.

Anyone who would like to get my first book "The Chaikins", for donation of
15$ to JewishGen. I still have few books left for that purpose.

Dear all.

After over two years of hard labour, I received a note >from my history
professor, saying that the manuscript of my new book will be sent back to
me soon, with his organized opinion. He also assured me that I will not
have to rewrite the book :-))
The book about Jewish families and communities of the province of Posen,
Prussia, was compiled with much help >from many, including members of our
German SIG.
The book contains many translations of articles >from Gothic script to both
English and Hebrew, about several towns in the province, and a lot of
material of general interest.
I hope to be able to publish it in March 2003. It will contain 560 pages on
chromo paper, hard cover, and about 150 documents and photos.
The book will be sold for no financial profit, only $15 a book, in order
to cover its costs.

About the author:
Back in 1970 I was a commander of paratroops squadron. I was badly
injured in Lebanon while leading my soldier to battle against the
terrorists.
Even though I was badly wounded, after over a year of medical treatments
and surgeries, I asked to continue serving my country as an officer and
fighter, and became a commander of squadron of tanks (British Centurions)
on the Golan Heights, where we fought against the Syrians. All that,
however, did not attribute to my health, and I am presently a 100%
disabled war veteran, and today I have to lie down most of the time,
inhaling oxygen.
My situation bought me a lot of free time, which I used to write my first
book between 1997-2000, and now the second one is about to appear.
I would greatly appreciate it if any of you who is interested in
purchasing the book will contact me after reading this note, so that I can
make an estimate as to how many copies of the book I should print. My
first estimate is 800 copies.

Best regards.
Udi Cain, Jerusalem.

p.s.

Anyone who would like to get my first book "The Chaikins", for donation of
15$ to JewishGen. I still have few books left for that purpose.

A first cousin Philip Frank born 1903 UK ran away >from his family in
Minneapolis in the summer May/June /July 1918 during WW1 and almost
certainly enlisted ( under age ) in the US Navy . He may have given a
false name.
He reputedly contacted a sister once only in 1924 >from San Diego saying he
was in the US Navy.
Does anyone know if WW1 Minneapolis recruitment office records survive -
and what person information was required for enlistment in 1918.
Or any ideas to trace ....

Aubrey Jacobus

gershie@optonline.net (Albert W. Gershman) opined:

What's the likelihood that three Eastern European Ashkenazi Jewish
brothers were named: Moishe, Mottel and Moses.

This is the scenario: Moishe comes to America in mid 1907 to see his
brother Moses, who is already living here with this Anglicized name. In
1910 Mottel shows up to see his brother Moishe.

Of course not. Nor is it likely that an Eastern European father
named his son "Moses" rather than "Moshe" (pronounced something like
"Moishe").

Sort of reminds me of that Bob Newhart show with the two brothers
Daryl. Did we, Jews of Eastern European practice, do this?

It is indeed very like the Bob Newhart script. No we did not.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

Please remove the CAPITAL LETTERS >from my address in order to send
me email.