Date   

Family: Mazin/Mazur etc #belarus

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

Dear SIG:

Though not a true ancestral family of mine, Selma/Zelda MAZUR/MAZIN
or similar was my g'father Shmuel FRAKT's first wife.

Shmuel supposedly came >from Kovne/Kaunas, and ended up in Bobruisk
due to military service. He was a widower with four kids when he
married my g'mother nee WOLFSON there in 1908.

Boys >from the first marriage were Yankel, Bentsche, and Berl, and
daughter Raizel.

I'm trying to figure out if his earlier marriage and kids come from
before or during Bobruisk so I can decide on some research
directions. My mother said Shmuel left a brother with some sons in
Kovne, which suggests the FRAKTS were a Kovne family, at least in the
last quarter of the 19th Century. Were the MAZUR/MAZINs?

So if anyone has ancestors with MAZUR/MAZIN or similar surname and
towns of 'origin', I'd appreciate hearing >from you.

Michelle Frager/NYC
By: FRAKT/WOLFSON/LIVSHITZ/DINABURSKY
Ua: TREGER/FRAGER/SIROTA/SHVAISBERG/ZEKTZER/BASSUK/FUCHS


Belarus SIG #Belarus Family: Mazin/Mazur etc #belarus

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

Dear SIG:

Though not a true ancestral family of mine, Selma/Zelda MAZUR/MAZIN
or similar was my g'father Shmuel FRAKT's first wife.

Shmuel supposedly came >from Kovne/Kaunas, and ended up in Bobruisk
due to military service. He was a widower with four kids when he
married my g'mother nee WOLFSON there in 1908.

Boys >from the first marriage were Yankel, Bentsche, and Berl, and
daughter Raizel.

I'm trying to figure out if his earlier marriage and kids come from
before or during Bobruisk so I can decide on some research
directions. My mother said Shmuel left a brother with some sons in
Kovne, which suggests the FRAKTS were a Kovne family, at least in the
last quarter of the 19th Century. Were the MAZUR/MAZINs?

So if anyone has ancestors with MAZUR/MAZIN or similar surname and
towns of 'origin', I'd appreciate hearing >from you.

Michelle Frager/NYC
By: FRAKT/WOLFSON/LIVSHITZ/DINABURSKY
Ua: TREGER/FRAGER/SIROTA/SHVAISBERG/ZEKTZER/BASSUK/FUCHS


Gravestones #general

Diane <dlfrankel@...>
 

Speaking of the information shown on gravestones.....

My gggrandmother's death certificate lists her age at 68.
The informant was her son.

Yet, the marker, which was probably erected at her unveiling, clearly shows
that her age at death as 84, which is
consistent with the ages of her children.
In 1918, that was considered OLD.

This only proves that the information given at a time of stress, is not
always correct.

Diane Pressman Frankel
North Miami Beach, FL
dlfrankel@mindspring.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Gravestones #general

Diane <dlfrankel@...>
 

Speaking of the information shown on gravestones.....

My gggrandmother's death certificate lists her age at 68.
The informant was her son.

Yet, the marker, which was probably erected at her unveiling, clearly shows
that her age at death as 84, which is
consistent with the ages of her children.
In 1918, that was considered OLD.

This only proves that the information given at a time of stress, is not
always correct.

Diane Pressman Frankel
North Miami Beach, FL
dlfrankel@mindspring.com


Re: Who filled out info for headstones and death certificates? #general

Sally M. Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Now, it is likely that information is correct when it is given. Let's hope
that most of the time our ancestors were right in their answers. And it
certainly is possible that both of a couple's fathers' names were Moses.
But as always in genealogy, keep an open mind until you have some
verification.

However, assuming that your question has to do with US procedures, most of
the time the information came >from whoever was there and was not verified.
If, when a person died, everyone was very upset, or if the person came from
Europe and nobody remembered who his/her parents were because nobody knew
them, it is possible that the information was wrong or 'unknown'. Maybe an
adult child was asked and the name of the other grandmother/father was
remembered. My uncle gave incorrect information on his father's death
certificate-but others knew the truth.

On the tombstone, the information came >from whoever bought the stone. This
has an advantage because it is likely a year after the death and people are
less upset. It is also possible that the person buying the stone was wrong
but someone else knew the right answer and gave it on the death
certificate-or that neither is right.

You can also check other possible sources of the information. After my gr
grandmother died, my gr grandfather remarried-his parents names are on the
second marriage record. A cousin was in a Jewish Old Age home, and they had
his father's name (Ben Zion ben Moshe) on a memorial. Certainly obituaries,
synagogue records, and the Burial Society records might have the father's
name.

Of course lots of American information is the same. Census records are
sometimes wrong (and I am not counting age discrepancies-ages were often
estimates, not exact), the administration of an estate might leave out one
of several kids names (this happened in my family-and it wasn't a disowned
brother). Nothing is perfect all the time.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Who filled out info for headstones and death certificates? #general

Sally M. Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Now, it is likely that information is correct when it is given. Let's hope
that most of the time our ancestors were right in their answers. And it
certainly is possible that both of a couple's fathers' names were Moses.
But as always in genealogy, keep an open mind until you have some
verification.

However, assuming that your question has to do with US procedures, most of
the time the information came >from whoever was there and was not verified.
If, when a person died, everyone was very upset, or if the person came from
Europe and nobody remembered who his/her parents were because nobody knew
them, it is possible that the information was wrong or 'unknown'. Maybe an
adult child was asked and the name of the other grandmother/father was
remembered. My uncle gave incorrect information on his father's death
certificate-but others knew the truth.

On the tombstone, the information came >from whoever bought the stone. This
has an advantage because it is likely a year after the death and people are
less upset. It is also possible that the person buying the stone was wrong
but someone else knew the right answer and gave it on the death
certificate-or that neither is right.

You can also check other possible sources of the information. After my gr
grandmother died, my gr grandfather remarried-his parents names are on the
second marriage record. A cousin was in a Jewish Old Age home, and they had
his father's name (Ben Zion ben Moshe) on a memorial. Certainly obituaries,
synagogue records, and the Burial Society records might have the father's
name.

Of course lots of American information is the same. Census records are
sometimes wrong (and I am not counting age discrepancies-ages were often
estimates, not exact), the administration of an estate might leave out one
of several kids names (this happened in my family-and it wasn't a disowned
brother). Nothing is perfect all the time.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


WALTER Family - Baltimore #general

Ronda McAllen
 

Hello,

I am new to this discussion group but already I have learned valuable
information >from this group. I wanted to post the family I am researching.
They are the Raphael (b. 1815, do. bet. 1880 - 1900) and Rachel (b. 1818,
Bavaria; do. 11/12/1867)Walter family >from Baltimore, MD. Raphael came from
Uhlfeld, August 8, 1837, with whom I believe was his mother,
Sophia. He married Rachel (maiden name unknown) around 1840 in Baltimore,
MD. There children were: Abraham (b. 1842), Lewis (b. 1844), Moses R. (b.
1848 d. 1918?), Joseph (b. 1850), Henrietta (m. Alexander Frank, b. 1852, d.
1905), Gilbert R. (b. 1856) and William (b. 1858). I believe the family
were members of either the Oheb Shalom or the Baltimore Hebrew Congregation.
Their son, Moses R. Walter, was a lawyer and very active in the Baltimore
Hebrew Congregation. Their daughter, Henrietta, and her family are in the
FTJP but nothing is known of her parents and I have contacted the
contributors of her tree.

The reason I am researching this family is because Rachel made two
exceptional Baltimore Album quilts. One, which was made in honor of the
Mexican War, which now resides at the Maryland Historical Society and the
other is at the Baltimore Museum of Art. The Mexican War quilt is in very
bad condition and has deteriorated and cannot be displayed any longer. I am
duplicating this quilt as a way of preserving it for future generations.
Rachel's quilt has a large following of those of us in the quilt world but
nothing was known of her life. In fact, the Maryland Historical Society has
her name as Rachel Meyer, which is incorrect. It was definitely Rachel
Walter. I would like to learn as much about her life as possible. She was
a very artistic and creative women and I feel her story should be preserve
and told along with her quilts. I am not of the Jewish faith but I am
extremely interested in the group of Jewish German immigrants who came to
Baltimore in the mid-19th century. Their contributions and the impact they
had on Baltimore is still present today. Any help would be greatly
appreciated as I am not familiar with Jewish genealogy. This is a new area
for me and I am reading everything I can get my hands on. I do have one
question, are Jewish vital records kept separately >from state vital records?
If so, where are they kept?

Ronda McAllen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WALTER Family - Baltimore #general

Ronda McAllen
 

Hello,

I am new to this discussion group but already I have learned valuable
information >from this group. I wanted to post the family I am researching.
They are the Raphael (b. 1815, do. bet. 1880 - 1900) and Rachel (b. 1818,
Bavaria; do. 11/12/1867)Walter family >from Baltimore, MD. Raphael came from
Uhlfeld, August 8, 1837, with whom I believe was his mother,
Sophia. He married Rachel (maiden name unknown) around 1840 in Baltimore,
MD. There children were: Abraham (b. 1842), Lewis (b. 1844), Moses R. (b.
1848 d. 1918?), Joseph (b. 1850), Henrietta (m. Alexander Frank, b. 1852, d.
1905), Gilbert R. (b. 1856) and William (b. 1858). I believe the family
were members of either the Oheb Shalom or the Baltimore Hebrew Congregation.
Their son, Moses R. Walter, was a lawyer and very active in the Baltimore
Hebrew Congregation. Their daughter, Henrietta, and her family are in the
FTJP but nothing is known of her parents and I have contacted the
contributors of her tree.

The reason I am researching this family is because Rachel made two
exceptional Baltimore Album quilts. One, which was made in honor of the
Mexican War, which now resides at the Maryland Historical Society and the
other is at the Baltimore Museum of Art. The Mexican War quilt is in very
bad condition and has deteriorated and cannot be displayed any longer. I am
duplicating this quilt as a way of preserving it for future generations.
Rachel's quilt has a large following of those of us in the quilt world but
nothing was known of her life. In fact, the Maryland Historical Society has
her name as Rachel Meyer, which is incorrect. It was definitely Rachel
Walter. I would like to learn as much about her life as possible. She was
a very artistic and creative women and I feel her story should be preserve
and told along with her quilts. I am not of the Jewish faith but I am
extremely interested in the group of Jewish German immigrants who came to
Baltimore in the mid-19th century. Their contributions and the impact they
had on Baltimore is still present today. Any help would be greatly
appreciated as I am not familiar with Jewish genealogy. This is a new area
for me and I am reading everything I can get my hands on. I do have one
question, are Jewish vital records kept separately >from state vital records?
If so, where are they kept?

Ronda McAllen


traffic in Poland in 1929 #general

vangheluwe <vangheluwe-smietan@...>
 

Bonjour

Is it improbable in 1929 that someone was living in Warsaw, but working in
Wloclawek as dentist? Wloclawek is140 km far >from Warsaw, on the Vistula...

Daniel Vangheluwe
France


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen traffic in Poland in 1929 #general

vangheluwe <vangheluwe-smietan@...>
 

Bonjour

Is it improbable in 1929 that someone was living in Warsaw, but working in
Wloclawek as dentist? Wloclawek is140 km far >from Warsaw, on the Vistula...

Daniel Vangheluwe
France


suffix; - ski #general

vangheluwe <vangheluwe-smietan@...>
 

Bonjour,

The name of my wife is Smietan, >from Warsaw: g-g-father Icek Smietan married
Gryncajg Grunzeig Chaja.

If I find any Smietan in the JRI Poland database, I find only one Smietanski
(a) in this database. I find any Smietanski as researcher, but I am the only
resercher for Smietan. Then here is my ask:

Do you know if the names Smietan and Smietanski are the same names.

Daniel Vangheluwe
France


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen suffix; - ski #general

vangheluwe <vangheluwe-smietan@...>
 

Bonjour,

The name of my wife is Smietan, >from Warsaw: g-g-father Icek Smietan married
Gryncajg Grunzeig Chaja.

If I find any Smietan in the JRI Poland database, I find only one Smietanski
(a) in this database. I find any Smietanski as researcher, but I am the only
resercher for Smietan. Then here is my ask:

Do you know if the names Smietan and Smietanski are the same names.

Daniel Vangheluwe
France


Re: Naturalization petition denied - now what? #general

Helene Carson <carsonmh@...>
 

Dorothy:

I have the same problem with my grandfather. I have his petition that
clearly states that he was denied 4 times, up until 1919 because my
grandfather did not show up for his hearing. Yet in the 1920 census it
shows he was naturalized in 1919. I have looked everywhere written to NARA
etc, and I find no indication that he was naturalized, so I am now going
under the assumption that my grandfather did not tell the truth to the
census taker and he never was naturalized.

I thought I heard at one time that Aliens were suppose to check in with the
INS on a yearly basis, but I have no proof to back that up, I cannot find
the original email where I was told that. If anyone has such information I
would greatly appreciate hearing about it.

Helene Rose-Carson
Crossville, TN
carsonmh@volfirst.net
Researching Rosen, Schwartz, Nurock Philadelphia
England, Russia, Philiadelphia PA, NYC

----- Original Message -----
From: Dorothy Kohanski <dkohanski@yahoo.com>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: Naturalization petition denied - now what?
I received a petition for naturalization for a
relative, dated 1912. At the end of it, there was a
statement denying the petition and the reason given
was that one of the witnesses (brother in law) was
not a US citizen. It said the petition was denied
"without prejudice". But in the 1920 census it
indicates that he was a citizen. Would there have
been other papers involved?

The "Intention" had been filed in Bismarck, ND in
1889.And the petition in Portland, OR. 1912.

Dorothy Dellar Kohanski
Laguna Woods, CA

Searching DELLAR, DILLER (and variations)
SAVRANSKY, SAVAN, GERTZMAN, WEINSTEIN, CARTMAN - from
Russia and Ukraine > Oregon, Washington, California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Naturalization petition denied - now what? #general

Helene Carson <carsonmh@...>
 

Dorothy:

I have the same problem with my grandfather. I have his petition that
clearly states that he was denied 4 times, up until 1919 because my
grandfather did not show up for his hearing. Yet in the 1920 census it
shows he was naturalized in 1919. I have looked everywhere written to NARA
etc, and I find no indication that he was naturalized, so I am now going
under the assumption that my grandfather did not tell the truth to the
census taker and he never was naturalized.

I thought I heard at one time that Aliens were suppose to check in with the
INS on a yearly basis, but I have no proof to back that up, I cannot find
the original email where I was told that. If anyone has such information I
would greatly appreciate hearing about it.

Helene Rose-Carson
Crossville, TN
carsonmh@volfirst.net
Researching Rosen, Schwartz, Nurock Philadelphia
England, Russia, Philiadelphia PA, NYC

----- Original Message -----
From: Dorothy Kohanski <dkohanski@yahoo.com>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: Naturalization petition denied - now what?
I received a petition for naturalization for a
relative, dated 1912. At the end of it, there was a
statement denying the petition and the reason given
was that one of the witnesses (brother in law) was
not a US citizen. It said the petition was denied
"without prejudice". But in the 1920 census it
indicates that he was a citizen. Would there have
been other papers involved?

The "Intention" had been filed in Bismarck, ND in
1889.And the petition in Portland, OR. 1912.

Dorothy Dellar Kohanski
Laguna Woods, CA

Searching DELLAR, DILLER (and variations)
SAVRANSKY, SAVAN, GERTZMAN, WEINSTEIN, CARTMAN - from
Russia and Ukraine > Oregon, Washington, California


GLAYMAN Family-Philadephia #general

walter spector <educonser@...>
 

Dear Genners,

I am looking for the family of Esther and Max Glayman
from Philadelphia and Woodbine NJ.
Walter Spector
educonser@hotmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GLAYMAN Family-Philadephia #general

walter spector <educonser@...>
 

Dear Genners,

I am looking for the family of Esther and Max Glayman
from Philadelphia and Woodbine NJ.
Walter Spector
educonser@hotmail.com


Re: Info on Gravestone and Death Certificates #general

Haviva Langenauer <havival@...>
 

Alex Bender found that the info on the gravestones of his ggmother and
ggrandfather indicates that each had a father named Moshe. He asks if
this is possible, or whether Moshe was used as a 'generic' name.
It is certainly possible that each one had a father named Moshe.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a 'generic' name
used on a grave marker. Moshe was a very popular name in Jewish families.

He then went on to ask why he could not corroborate this with info on the
death certificate. Even though in each case the information came >from a
relative, who should have known the name of the father of the decedent,
the name Moshe was missing >from the death certificate. The informant
for a death certificate is often in a confused state of mind, having
recently experienced the death of a loved one. The answers which he
gives in filling out the death certificate may be incorrect or
incomplete, because of the deeply emotional time at which this is done.
There are many examples of mistakes found on death certificates in the
archives of JewishGen.

The information for the gravestone is usually provided at a time when the
family has recovered >from the emotion of the loss. They have time to
compose themselves and search out other sources to provide the correct
Hebrew names.

I would tell Alex that he should be happy that he was able to discover
the name Moshe on the gravestones.

A sad comment is that many Jewish cemeteries today restrict the
information which can be placed on the grave marker. Sometimes only
English is allowed. Our future genners will have a more difficult
time searching out info >from these sources. Perhaps we should be
careful about the purchase of this final piece of real estate that
we will acquire. Is is time to raise conciousness about this matter?

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer
South Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re:Info on Gravestone and Death Certificates #general

Haviva Langenauer <havival@...>
 

Alex Bender found that the info on the gravestones of his ggmother and
ggrandfather indicates that each had a father named Moshe. He asks if
this is possible, or whether Moshe was used as a 'generic' name.
It is certainly possible that each one had a father named Moshe.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a 'generic' name
used on a grave marker. Moshe was a very popular name in Jewish families.

He then went on to ask why he could not corroborate this with info on the
death certificate. Even though in each case the information came >from a
relative, who should have known the name of the father of the decedent,
the name Moshe was missing >from the death certificate. The informant
for a death certificate is often in a confused state of mind, having
recently experienced the death of a loved one. The answers which he
gives in filling out the death certificate may be incorrect or
incomplete, because of the deeply emotional time at which this is done.
There are many examples of mistakes found on death certificates in the
archives of JewishGen.

The information for the gravestone is usually provided at a time when the
family has recovered >from the emotion of the loss. They have time to
compose themselves and search out other sources to provide the correct
Hebrew names.

I would tell Alex that he should be happy that he was able to discover
the name Moshe on the gravestones.

A sad comment is that many Jewish cemeteries today restrict the
information which can be placed on the grave marker. Sometimes only
English is allowed. Our future genners will have a more difficult
time searching out info >from these sources. Perhaps we should be
careful about the purchase of this final piece of real estate that
we will acquire. Is is time to raise conciousness about this matter?

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer
South Florida


Searching: Weissman #general

Marilyn Feingold <mrl@...>
 

I know that my uncle's grandfather, Benjamin Weissman came to the US in
1888. I know he was >from Budapest, Hungary. He was naturalized in New York
on October 16, 1894.

My problem. I am unable to find out which ship he came
in on. According to the the National Archives Ship Arrival Form, "the
index to New York passenger arrivals covers the period 1820-1846 and
1897-1943. We regret that we cannot unertake a page by page search of the
lists for the period 1847-96, inclusive."

So, where does that leave me in my research for Benjamin? Any ideas
will be greatly appreciated.
Marilyn Feingold,
atlanta, georgia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: Weissman #general

Marilyn Feingold <mrl@...>
 

I know that my uncle's grandfather, Benjamin Weissman came to the US in
1888. I know he was >from Budapest, Hungary. He was naturalized in New York
on October 16, 1894.

My problem. I am unable to find out which ship he came
in on. According to the the National Archives Ship Arrival Form, "the
index to New York passenger arrivals covers the period 1820-1846 and
1897-1943. We regret that we cannot unertake a page by page search of the
lists for the period 1847-96, inclusive."

So, where does that leave me in my research for Benjamin? Any ideas
will be greatly appreciated.
Marilyn Feingold,
atlanta, georgia