Genners,

I would side with those who recommend contacting various courts or their
repositories before pursuing the INS route. In two instances I received
documents for federal Eastern District of New York naturalizations within
approx. one month of making such requests. And I personally retrieved
papers >from the Brooklyn Supreme Court for a third. With the information
available on the forms, I was able to quickly pursue additional research.

I would be quite hesitant to use the INS as my primary source because of the
time it takes them to respond. Plus, there is no guaranty that they will
have information unavailable to the courts. I might send in a request to
them contemporaneous with a court request, but not in lieu of the latter.

Regards,

Ty Henken
Centennial, Colo.
Henken9@aol.com

In article <3DB81414.80100@sciti.com>,
Stephanie Weiner <laguna@sciti.com> wrote:

I have found information on a relative living in Amesbury, MA in
1903-1904. His occupation is listed as "scourer." Anyone have a clue
what a scourer did??

Oxford English Dictionary includes:

1. a. One who polishes or cleanses by hard rubbing. Used esp. as the
designation of certain servants in the Royal Household.

2. One who cleans wool, cloth, clothes, etc.

3. One who cleans out drains, etc.

So it's likely he cleaned something - but whether it was dishes, clothes,
drains or something else is not clear.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The INS is akin to that uncooperative relative who knows everything but for
various reasons does not wish to share. Obviously the mission of the INS is
not the same as the NARA. And certainly after 9-11, more funds are going to
'security' issues than old records. I cringe everytime I even think about
contacting the INS. My saga begins in/about 1989 when I sought immigration
records for my grandmother, Esther (Kalkopf) McTeer, and her mother, Liba
(Lenczner) Lieberman Kalkopf Freymorgen. After a few months I received a
note stating that Esther's name had been found on an 'index' (>from the
regional office covering Los Angeles). A few months later, I received
another note saying they had nothing.

It has taken about ten years, but I *finally* received a *portion* of Liba's
immigration records. It was identified by the INS, but the actual file came

from the NARA. (Liba was never naturalization.) She entered the US twice and

this file was >from her second entry (she may have have even an earlier entry
around 1900 going to Philadelphia according to her 1931 entry when she had
been granted permanent residency status. For whatever reason (she claimed
illness of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) she returned to Poland (where
she attended the wedding of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) and supposedly
sold her interest in a shoe 'factory' in Sosnowiec. However apparently she
did this without 'permission' >from the US government and was only granted
temporary vista status on her return in 1932. The file I received was
generated >from this 'second' entry. So *where* is the first part?
*obviously* there is a previous record (or records). Where are the documents
applying for (apparently started by her daughter, Bertha/Brucha Lieberman
Blumenfeld as a US citizen) permanent residency and the approval?

One problem is surnames especially of women. Liba had seven children, one
Liberman (Bertha), five Kalkopf (including my grandmother) and one
Freymorgen (Syliva Zissel who immigrated in 1939). The birth range is from
1901 to 1923. When Liba came to the US in 1931/2, she used the surname
Kalkopf though her last husband was supposedly Moshie Freymorgen. By
accident I found the entry of her youngest child Bertha. I checked on the
Ellis Island site for Lentzner. Bertha entered in 1911 with her 'uncle'
Adolph Lentzner of St. Louis, MO. Her relative back in "Poland" was "Mother:
Lube Lentzner Stekocin, Russia". Of course previously I had been looking for
a "Bertha" Lieberman.

The file I did receive (after ten years), does contain useful information.
With mention of the 'daughters', etc., it does mention specific relatives
such as her siblings who also came to the US (David, Herman, Chaim, Rose)
and one who did not (Golda who married a Grinbaum). Liba was interviewed in
the presence of a stenographer and translator. So there is a written record
of the interview. I still do not know exactly who the 'uncle' Adolph is. I
do know that he was married to Mary Nudelman and they had chidlren, three of
whom ended up in California.

But the point is that the INS *is* a source. You just have to keep trying.

Michael McTeer
29 Palms, CA
mcteer@mailandnews.com
(archival purposes)

Thanks to all those who corresponded with me over the past few years. I
asked for help in the research of my book and I am glad to say that it is
now published and out in print. The publisher's website for anyone who is
interested is www.rbstudiobooks.com and then click to "Ten Green Bottles"
which is the title of the book.

If anyone would like to ask me about the story,my email address is
vkaplan@rogers.com . The book is about my mother's life story, her
traumatic time in Vienna up to and including the pogrom of Kristallnacht and
then the family's flight to Shanghai where they spent ten years during and
following the war.

I appreciate all the interest.

Vivian Kaplan

I would like to add this to the list:
My father-in-law's name in the USA was Sam/Samuel (Markel)
His parents came >from Lemberg (Galicia) and Lodz (Poland).
They emigrated to Vienna. Sam/Samuel's birth record >from Vienna Austria
shows his first name as Salomon. His name appears as Salomon on the EIDB
manifest. Also, the given name Salomon/Solomon appears on the database
records for the town of Krakow (Galicia) with the family name of Markel.

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

Hi all,

I'd like to give my sincere thanks to those who helped
me decipher this birth notation I posted at
www.geocities.com/mark_j1_2000/Genealogy.html . The
consensus is that it is Majer Jacobi swearing that
Ruchel Rothlein is his lawful wife. You are an
amazingly helpful group. Thanks!

Mark Jacobson

Boca Raton, FL

Genners,

I would side with those who recommend contacting various courts or their
repositories before pursuing the INS route. In two instances I received
documents for federal Eastern District of New York naturalizations within
approx. one month of making such requests. And I personally retrieved
papers >from the Brooklyn Supreme Court for a third. With the information
available on the forms, I was able to quickly pursue additional research.

I would be quite hesitant to use the INS as my primary source because of the
time it takes them to respond. Plus, there is no guaranty that they will
have information unavailable to the courts. I might send in a request to
them contemporaneous with a court request, but not in lieu of the latter.

Regards,

Ty Henken
Centennial, Colo.
Henken9@aol.com

In article <3DB81414.80100@sciti.com>,
Stephanie Weiner <laguna@sciti.com> wrote:

I have found information on a relative living in Amesbury, MA in
1903-1904. His occupation is listed as "scourer." Anyone have a clue
what a scourer did??

Oxford English Dictionary includes:

1. a. One who polishes or cleanses by hard rubbing. Used esp. as the
designation of certain servants in the Royal Household.

2. One who cleans wool, cloth, clothes, etc.

3. One who cleans out drains, etc.

So it's likely he cleaned something - but whether it was dishes, clothes,
drains or something else is not clear.

Robert Israel
israel@math.ubc.ca
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The INS is akin to that uncooperative relative who knows everything but for
various reasons does not wish to share. Obviously the mission of the INS is
not the same as the NARA. And certainly after 9-11, more funds are going to
'security' issues than old records. I cringe everytime I even think about
contacting the INS. My saga begins in/about 1989 when I sought immigration
records for my grandmother, Esther (Kalkopf) McTeer, and her mother, Liba
(Lenczner) Lieberman Kalkopf Freymorgen. After a few months I received a
note stating that Esther's name had been found on an 'index' (>from the
regional office covering Los Angeles). A few months later, I received
another note saying they had nothing.

It has taken about ten years, but I *finally* received a *portion* of Liba's
immigration records. It was identified by the INS, but the actual file came

from the NARA. (Liba was never naturalization.) She entered the US twice and

this file was >from her second entry (she may have have even an earlier entry
around 1900 going to Philadelphia according to her 1931 entry when she had
been granted permanent residency status. For whatever reason (she claimed
illness of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) she returned to Poland (where
she attended the wedding of a 'daughter' - unnamed of course) and supposedly
sold her interest in a shoe 'factory' in Sosnowiec. However apparently she
did this without 'permission' >from the US government and was only granted
temporary vista status on her return in 1932. The file I received was
generated >from this 'second' entry. So *where* is the first part?
*obviously* there is a previous record (or records). Where are the documents
applying for (apparently started by her daughter, Bertha/Brucha Lieberman
Blumenfeld as a US citizen) permanent residency and the approval?

One problem is surnames especially of women. Liba had seven children, one
Liberman (Bertha), five Kalkopf (including my grandmother) and one
Freymorgen (Syliva Zissel who immigrated in 1939). The birth range is from
1901 to 1923. When Liba came to the US in 1931/2, she used the surname
Kalkopf though her last husband was supposedly Moshie Freymorgen. By
accident I found the entry of her youngest child Bertha. I checked on the
Ellis Island site for Lentzner. Bertha entered in 1911 with her 'uncle'
Adolph Lentzner of St. Louis, MO. Her relative back in "Poland" was "Mother:
Lube Lentzner Stekocin, Russia". Of course previously I had been looking for
a "Bertha" Lieberman.

The file I did receive (after ten years), does contain useful information.
With mention of the 'daughters', etc., it does mention specific relatives
such as her siblings who also came to the US (David, Herman, Chaim, Rose)
and one who did not (Golda who married a Grinbaum). Liba was interviewed in
the presence of a stenographer and translator. So there is a written record
of the interview. I still do not know exactly who the 'uncle' Adolph is. I
do know that he was married to Mary Nudelman and they had chidlren, three of
whom ended up in California.

But the point is that the INS *is* a source. You just have to keep trying.

Michael McTeer
29 Palms, CA
mcteer@mailandnews.com
(archival purposes)

Thanks to all those who corresponded with me over the past few years. I
asked for help in the research of my book and I am glad to say that it is
now published and out in print. The publisher's website for anyone who is
interested is www.rbstudiobooks.com and then click to "Ten Green Bottles"
which is the title of the book.

If anyone would like to ask me about the story,my email address is
vkaplan@rogers.com . The book is about my mother's life story, her
traumatic time in Vienna up to and including the pogrom of Kristallnacht and
then the family's flight to Shanghai where they spent ten years during and
following the war.

I appreciate all the interest.

Vivian Kaplan

I would like to add this to the list:
My father-in-law's name in the USA was Sam/Samuel (Markel)
His parents came >from Lemberg (Galicia) and Lodz (Poland).
They emigrated to Vienna. Sam/Samuel's birth record >from Vienna Austria
shows his first name as Salomon. His name appears as Salomon on the EIDB
manifest. Also, the given name Salomon/Solomon appears on the database
records for the town of Krakow (Galicia) with the family name of Markel.

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

Hi all,

I'd like to give my sincere thanks to those who helped
me decipher this birth notation I posted at
www.geocities.com/mark_j1_2000/Genealogy.html . The
consensus is that it is Majer Jacobi swearing that
Ruchel Rothlein is his lawful wife. You are an
amazingly helpful group. Thanks!

Mark Jacobson

Boca Raton, FL

Nancy Holden's feature is highly informative and useful, not only for the
timeline on national borders but also for the "Comments" section she
includes. For instance, I had always heard that Jewish surnames came about,for the most part, in the 1830s, but now I learn that the practice began in 1815.

Does anyone know if there's a similar national borders timetime for Poland
and for Lithuania? I know the borders were in constant flux.

EDWARD L. JAFFEE
Springfield, VA
jaffeee@erols.com

Nancy Holden's feature is highly informative and useful, not only for the
timeline on national borders but also for the "Comments" section she
includes. For instance, I had always heard that Jewish surnames came about,for the most part, in the 1830s, but now I learn that the practice began in 1815.

Does anyone know if there's a similar national borders timetime for Poland
and for Lithuania? I know the borders were in constant flux.

EDWARD L. JAFFEE
Springfield, VA
jaffeee@erols.com

I was able to have translated the writing on the back of a photo of my
g-grandmother with her youngest daughter, which we had assumed was taken in Odessa, where the family said they were from. However, the studio was in Kovno, on Nikolaevskii (Prospect) Street, with a phrase beneath that saying "Across the street >from the women's school."

Would anyone out there have a clue about this street/ location? The
photo was taken about 1896 0r '97.

Thanks for any help.

Phyllis Levine
Researching: LEIZERIK, KRAMER and SHULMAN >from Pumpenai, Lithuania; MEDALIE >from Papile, Lithuania; BOROCHOFF or BOROCHOV >from Odessa, Ukraine; LEVINE >from Panoteriai, Lithuania.

I was able to have translated the writing on the back of a photo of my
g-grandmother with her youngest daughter, which we had assumed was taken in Odessa, where the family said they were from. However, the studio was in Kovno, on Nikolaevskii (Prospect) Street, with a phrase beneath that saying "Across the street >from the women's school."

Would anyone out there have a clue about this street/ location? The
photo was taken about 1896 0r '97.

Thanks for any help.

Phyllis Levine
Researching: LEIZERIK, KRAMER and SHULMAN >from Pumpenai, Lithuania; MEDALIE >from Papile, Lithuania; BOROCHOFF or BOROCHOV >from Odessa, Ukraine; LEVINE >from Panoteriai, Lithuania.

Further to Michale Bernet's interesting posting of October 25, I
would like to add some points raised by Alexander Beider in his
lecture "Jewish Surnames in Galicia", presented at the IAJGS
conference in Toronto in July.

Mr. Beider started the lecture by saying that he was still
researching Galician surnames, and that his presentation reflected a
work in progress. He seemed pretty clear, however, in asserting that
many Jewish family names -- in Galicia, at any rate-- were assigned
arbitrarily by Austrian civil servants. Someone given the name
"Pariser" might never have seen Paris. A Schwartz might have been
fair-haired and a Weiss swarthy. According to Beider, my paternal
family name, Berghoff -- which I had hoped would hold some clue to
the family's origin-- was typical of the compound names arbitrarily
assigned by the clerks.

Because the native language of these clerks was German, they assigned
German surnames. One of the main guidelines was that the names differ

from those of the local non-Jewish population.

Victoria Barkoff
Montreal Canada

Further to Michale Bernet's interesting posting of October 25, I
would like to add some points raised by Alexander Beider in his
lecture "Jewish Surnames in Galicia", presented at the IAJGS
conference in Toronto in July.

Mr. Beider started the lecture by saying that he was still
researching Galician surnames, and that his presentation reflected a
work in progress. He seemed pretty clear, however, in asserting that
many Jewish family names -- in Galicia, at any rate-- were assigned
arbitrarily by Austrian civil servants. Someone given the name
"Pariser" might never have seen Paris. A Schwartz might have been
fair-haired and a Weiss swarthy. According to Beider, my paternal
family name, Berghoff -- which I had hoped would hold some clue to
the family's origin-- was typical of the compound names arbitrarily
assigned by the clerks.

Because the native language of these clerks was German, they assigned
German surnames. One of the main guidelines was that the names differ

from those of the local non-Jewish population.

Victoria Barkoff
Montreal Canada

Sunday 3 November is the date for JGSGB 9th annual one day conference, at
YAKAR, 9.30am -4pm.

A SAfrica SIG meeting will be held around 12.30, no formal agenda, anyone
interested in Southern African Genealogy may attend.


Also long in advance notice for: Thursday, 6th February 2003, "The
Lithuanian-Jewish Diaspora: South Africa as a
Case Study"

Prof. Joseph Sherman, Woolf Corob Fellow in Yiddish, The Oxford Centre

Kinloss Gardens , 7.30 pm.


Saul


Saul Issroff

Sunday 3 November is the date for JGSGB 9th annual one day conference, at
YAKAR, 9.30am -4pm.

A SAfrica SIG meeting will be held around 12.30, no formal agenda, anyone
interested in Southern African Genealogy may attend.


Also long in advance notice for: Thursday, 6th February 2003, "The
Lithuanian-Jewish Diaspora: South Africa as a
Case Study"

Prof. Joseph Sherman, Woolf Corob Fellow in Yiddish, The Oxford Centre

Kinloss Gardens , 7.30 pm.


Saul


Saul Issroff