I have a brick wall and I am hoping that someone out there can help. My problem
is searching for documents in London for my great grandfather Barnet(t) Shapiro.
Here is what I am told, most of this so far is documented:

Barnet(t) SHAPRIO born about 1880 in Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland. His birth name
was Benzion SZABAS. He was the son of Nathan SHAPIRO (known in Poland as Nissan
Zev SZABAS, nickname was Nitsky) and an unknown woman. About 1888, Barnet was
sent >from Poland to London, England. He was educated there and apprenticed to be
a baker there. In 1903, he left the UK >from Liverpool and immigrated to the US
(passenger manifests confirm this). I can trace him in the US. Once established
as a baker in New York City, he sent money back to his "adoptive" family in
London. Barnet did not marry, or die in London. Are there school records or
apprenticeship records that can be checked to verify his stay there? He was a
bread baker. He had an uncle who married in Holborn, London in 1911 (certified
copy of marriage record is in my possesion). His name was Jack CHILLAR, a
jeweler, and he married a protestant woman named Dora Ruth BARLOW, daughter of
Horace BARLOW, a commercial traveler. The witnesses to Jack and Dora's marriage
are Barnet MILLER and Golda MILLER.

Does anyone have any idea on how to proceed with my search for Barnet SHAPIRO
a.k.a. Benzio SZABAS, in London? Thanks in advance.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC, USA
altmanlh@directvinternet.com

Researching BARLOW, BERGMAN, SHAPIRO, and SZABAS - London, England

I have a brick wall and I am hoping that someone out there can help. My problem
is searching for documents in London for my great grandfather Barnet(t) Shapiro.
Here is what I am told, most of this so far is documented:

Barnet(t) SHAPRIO born about 1880 in Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland. His birth name
was Benzion SZABAS. He was the son of Nathan SHAPIRO (known in Poland as Nissan
Zev SZABAS, nickname was Nitsky) and an unknown woman. About 1888, Barnet was
sent >from Poland to London, England. He was educated there and apprenticed to be
a baker there. In 1903, he left the UK >from Liverpool and immigrated to the US
(passenger manifests confirm this). I can trace him in the US. Once established
as a baker in New York City, he sent money back to his "adoptive" family in
London. Barnet did not marry, or die in London. Are there school records or
apprenticeship records that can be checked to verify his stay there? He was a
bread baker. He had an uncle who married in Holborn, London in 1911 (certified
copy of marriage record is in my possesion). His name was Jack CHILLAR, a
jeweler, and he married a protestant woman named Dora Ruth BARLOW, daughter of
Horace BARLOW, a commercial traveler. The witnesses to Jack and Dora's marriage
are Barnet MILLER and Golda MILLER.

Does anyone have any idea on how to proceed with my search for Barnet SHAPIRO
a.k.a. Benzio SZABAS, in London? Thanks in advance.

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC, USA
altmanlh@directvinternet.com

Researching BARLOW, BERGMAN, SHAPIRO, and SZABAS - London, England

Dear Katarina:

As before, let me remind you:

---Many Jews lived in Germany.---

In much of Germany, Jews did not have fixed surnames until 1812 or even
later. At that time, German Jews took all kinds of surnames.

Many of these names were based on the profession of the person taking
the name. Someone who ran a small shop might well have called himself
Kramer or Kraemer.

As for "Altmann", there are plenty of records of Jews taking that name.
There's no reason to expect any name (except perhaps Kohn) to be truly
"Jewish".

My great-great-grandmother Friederike Altmann was Jewish. Her father,
Leopold Altmann, was also Jewish, and was probably the person who
originally took the name. He and his daughter were not "accepted as
Jewish"--they were Jewish. Names don't have religions--people do.

Who's calling Kramer a "Jewish name"? It's a German name, and some of
the German Jews and German-speaking Jews chose that name.

Or do you mean something else by "100% German"?

Roger Lustig

Katarina wrote:

Dear Katarina:

As before, let me remind you:

---Many Jews lived in Germany.---

In much of Germany, Jews did not have fixed surnames until 1812 or even
later. At that time, German Jews took all kinds of surnames.

Many of these names were based on the profession of the person taking
the name. Someone who ran a small shop might well have called himself
Kramer or Kraemer.

As for "Altmann", there are plenty of records of Jews taking that name.
There's no reason to expect any name (except perhaps Kohn) to be truly
"Jewish".

My great-great-grandmother Friederike Altmann was Jewish. Her father,
Leopold Altmann, was also Jewish, and was probably the person who
originally took the name. He and his daughter were not "accepted as
Jewish"--they were Jewish. Names don't have religions--people do.

Who's calling Kramer a "Jewish name"? It's a German name, and some of
the German Jews and German-speaking Jews chose that name.

Or do you mean something else by "100% German"?

Roger Lustig

Katarina wrote:

Those interested in your Canadian roots might find the
following site of some interest: "Our Roots: Canada's
Local Histories Online"

<http://www.ourroots.ca/e/home.asp>

The digitization is far >from complete (my ancestral
towns in Alberta are not included yet, for example),
but I found one reference to one of my families that I
didn't know existed. :-)

Enjoy,

Shel Bercovich,
Calgary, AB, Canada

Searching: BERCOVICI, GOLDENBERG, MOSCOVITZ - Darabani, Dorohoi, Iasi,
Havirna & Stefanesti, Romani
ECHTER - Tulchin, Balta, & Krivoye Ozero, Ukraine
KLEBANOV (various spellings),
LIPKIND - Minsk Gubernia; USA
ZWANG - Argentina; Israel; Ukraine

I am looking for Judy SACK or her descendants. She is the daughter of
Esther Rolnik, born 9/29/1911, died 4/18/1952 and George SACK. After
Esther's death, George and Judy may have moved to Massachusetts >from New
York City. Esther Rolnik was my grandfather's sister.

Please send any information privately to shell-leo@attbi.com. Thank you in
advance for your help.

Michelle Leo
Verona, PA
shell-leo@attbi.com

ROLNIK-Pinsk, Belarus, USA, SACK-USA, NEEDLEMAN-Narovlya and Mozyr, Belarus,
USA, RAIDER-Belarus, USA, FRIEDMAN-Pinsk, Belarus, New York City, USA.

I am looking for descendants of the following people: Allen WACHTEL, born
8/13/1906, died 11/5/1983; Solomon J. LEBOWITZ, born 11/1/1901, died
4/25/1975; Sylvia LEBOWITZ, born 10/3/1908, died 5/8/1968; Nathan ROLNIK,
died 7/21/1938, age 51 years; Celia ROLNIK, died 8/10/1942, age 82 years.
All are buried in Mt. Carmel Cemetery, Glendale, NY in the ROLNIK family
plot. I believe Nathan was my great-grandfather's (Max ROLNIK) brother.
Celia was Nathan's wife. Sylvia Lebowitz and the unknown wife of Allen
Wachtel are possibly daughters of Nathan.

If any of this sounds familiar please contact me privately at
shell-leo@attbi.com. Thank you for your help in advance.

Michelle Leo
Verona, PA
shell-leo@attbi.com

ROLNIK-Pinsk, Belarus, USA, WACHTEL-USA, LEBOWITZ-USA,
KAPLAN/MELACHSON-Odessa, Ukraine, GOLDSMITH/PROSKUROWSKY-Pilyava, Podolia,
Ukraine

Those interested in your Canadian roots might find the
following site of some interest: "Our Roots: Canada's
Local Histories Online"

<http://www.ourroots.ca/e/home.asp>

The digitization is far >from complete (my ancestral
towns in Alberta are not included yet, for example),
but I found one reference to one of my families that I
didn't know existed. :-)

Enjoy,

Shel Bercovich,
Calgary, AB, Canada

Searching: BERCOVICI, GOLDENBERG, MOSCOVITZ - Darabani, Dorohoi, Iasi,
Havirna & Stefanesti, Romani
ECHTER - Tulchin, Balta, & Krivoye Ozero, Ukraine
KLEBANOV (various spellings),
LIPKIND - Minsk Gubernia; USA
ZWANG - Argentina; Israel; Ukraine

I am looking for Judy SACK or her descendants. She is the daughter of
Esther Rolnik, born 9/29/1911, died 4/18/1952 and George SACK. After
Esther's death, George and Judy may have moved to Massachusetts >from New
York City. Esther Rolnik was my grandfather's sister.

Please send any information privately to shell-leo@attbi.com. Thank you in
advance for your help.

Michelle Leo
Verona, PA
shell-leo@attbi.com

ROLNIK-Pinsk, Belarus, USA, SACK-USA, NEEDLEMAN-Narovlya and Mozyr, Belarus,
USA, RAIDER-Belarus, USA, FRIEDMAN-Pinsk, Belarus, New York City, USA.

I am looking for descendants of the following people: Allen WACHTEL, born
8/13/1906, died 11/5/1983; Solomon J. LEBOWITZ, born 11/1/1901, died
4/25/1975; Sylvia LEBOWITZ, born 10/3/1908, died 5/8/1968; Nathan ROLNIK,
died 7/21/1938, age 51 years; Celia ROLNIK, died 8/10/1942, age 82 years.
All are buried in Mt. Carmel Cemetery, Glendale, NY in the ROLNIK family
plot. I believe Nathan was my great-grandfather's (Max ROLNIK) brother.
Celia was Nathan's wife. Sylvia Lebowitz and the unknown wife of Allen
Wachtel are possibly daughters of Nathan.

If any of this sounds familiar please contact me privately at
shell-leo@attbi.com. Thank you for your help in advance.

Michelle Leo
Verona, PA
shell-leo@attbi.com

ROLNIK-Pinsk, Belarus, USA, WACHTEL-USA, LEBOWITZ-USA,
KAPLAN/MELACHSON-Odessa, Ukraine, GOLDSMITH/PROSKUROWSKY-Pilyava, Podolia,
Ukraine

I have received a birth and a marriage certificate >from Poland, both
of which appear to be written in (Old?) Cyrillic.

Is there a kindly person who can read through them and extract the
personal information (names, dates and places)?

They're online at:
http://www.tresman.co.uk/tree/images/warszawski.htm

Best regards,
Ian Tresman
http://www.tresman.co.uk/tree/

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Jerry - another side of the coin:
My husband was born in South America - while his Russian parents were
waiting for a Visa to enter the United States.
He was named Simon on his birth certificate [pronounced as Shimon by his
parents].
In America he became Sam - not Samuel - but Sam.

Warm regards,
Sylvia

Dear Genners,
You may observe >from the enclosed two lineages that in the course of the
17th-19th centuries the KLAUSNERs changed their surname, due to various
reasons, to LIEBERMAN, ELLENBERG, WITKIND, WEISSBROT, FINKELSTEIN (all
spellings). That does not mean that all LIEBERMANs,…….., FINKELSTEINs were
KLAUSNERs, only some.
If you know or suspect that one of the families you are searching may
originate in the KLAUSNER family please contact me.
Also if you would like to know if the family you are searching does or does
not originate in the KLAUSNER family I suggest we compare our data. I have
additional data in the different lineages.

Lineage 1.
7. Shlomo Zalman b’Yakov KLAUSNER of Biala & Brody ~1700-?
8. Zvi Hirsh b’Shlomo Zalman KLAUSNER-LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1730-1800
9. Shlomo Zalman b’Zvi Hirsh KLAUSNER of Vladimir ~1760-?
Yakov b’Zvi Hirsh LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1760;?
Arye Leib b’Zvi Hirsh ELLENBERG of Lakacz ~1760-?
Yechiel b’Zvi Hirsh LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1760-?
10. Yechezkel b’Yakov LIEBERMAN-WITKIND ~1790-?
Simcha Natan b’Arye Leib ELLENBERG of Mosciska & Lwow 1787-1859
Moshe b’Yechiel ELLENBERG of Lakacz ~1790-?
11. Yisachar Dov Ber b’Moshe ELLENBERG of Turobin & Ivanteyvka ~1820-?
12. Yakov b’Yisachar Dov Ber ELLENBERG-WEISSBROT of Turobin & Krasnik
~1850-?

Lineage 2.
1. Zvi Hirsh b’Zcharya Mendl KLAUSNER of Bolechow, Lwow & Lublin
~1610-1690
2. Avraham b’Zvi Hirsh KLAUSNER-FINKELSTEIN of Lublin ~1635-1670

Join the Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) and receive our Journal
"Sharsheret Hadorot"

Dr. Yehuda Klausner
klausner@alumni.princeton.edu

Searching:
KLAUSNER (KLAUZNER, CLOISNER, KLUZNER, etc.), BARZAM, KADISH, BUSHKE
(BOSHKE), ZEINWIRT (ZENVIRT), EILENBERG (ILENBERG), LIEBERMAN (all
spellings), WITKIND, HOCHGELEHRNTER (GELEHRNTER), ENGLMAN (ENGELMAN), IROM
(IRAM), TEUMIM, MICHELSON Great Britain, South Africa, Rhodesia etc.),
Descendants of Moshe ben Meir KATZNELENBOGEN of Chelm, HERLING,
KATZ, (HaCOHEN, KAHANE, COHEN, etc.) >from Galicia, GRINBERG (all spellings).

Joseph Marks, originally Joseph Mordechai Derevianski of Zaludok, Belarus,
had a furniture store in Main Street Bradford Penn. He was trading from
there in 1920 definitely, perhaps 1930s.

He had 2 sons and 4 daughters - names unknown. In 1920 one son was studying
law in Cleveland Ohio. Before this he had volunteered for the US Army in
WW11.

He had a sister Yudis Epstein who lived in N Jersey. She had 4 daughters,
Tilly, Rose, Evelyn and perhaps Betty!

A descendant of the brother of Joseph Marks is interested in discovering if
any of these families are around.

Please reply privately. Thank you.

Dear All,

Thanks to all who replied to me about passengers missing the boat &
therefore being listed twice on entry to Ellis Island. There's another
little mystery solved!

Gratefully,

Saul Marks
Newcastle, England

I noticed that you mentioned both New Haven and Waterbury, Ct. While I
do not know the people you mentioned, I can tell you that New Haven is
both a city and a county. Waterbury is a city in the county of New
Haven. I think you want to search around Waterbury, not New Haven, as
the cities are over 20 miles apart and both are moderately large
cities.

===
PLEASE NOTE: I have modified my "reply to" address in an effort to avoid
automated spam. If you wish to reply to me, please delete the words "no
spam" >from the "reply to" address above.

Barbara Sloan
New Haven, CT

Searching SLATAS/ZLATIS/SLATIS, SANCTON/SANKTIN/SENKTIN, SLONIMSKY/
SLONIMSKI, PASSIN, WEINGER/WENGER--Belarus, Lithuania, Russia, USA

I have received a birth and a marriage certificate >from Poland, both
of which appear to be written in (Old?) Cyrillic.

Is there a kindly person who can read through them and extract the
personal information (names, dates and places)?

They're online at:
http://www.tresman.co.uk/tree/images/warszawski.htm

Best regards,
Ian Tresman
http://www.tresman.co.uk/tree/

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately.

Jerry - another side of the coin:
My husband was born in South America - while his Russian parents were
waiting for a Visa to enter the United States.
He was named Simon on his birth certificate [pronounced as Shimon by his
parents].
In America he became Sam - not Samuel - but Sam.

Warm regards,
Sylvia

Dear Genners,
You may observe >from the enclosed two lineages that in the course of the
17th-19th centuries the KLAUSNERs changed their surname, due to various
reasons, to LIEBERMAN, ELLENBERG, WITKIND, WEISSBROT, FINKELSTEIN (all
spellings). That does not mean that all LIEBERMANs,…….., FINKELSTEINs were
KLAUSNERs, only some.
If you know or suspect that one of the families you are searching may
originate in the KLAUSNER family please contact me.
Also if you would like to know if the family you are searching does or does
not originate in the KLAUSNER family I suggest we compare our data. I have
additional data in the different lineages.

Lineage 1.
7. Shlomo Zalman b’Yakov KLAUSNER of Biala & Brody ~1700-?
8. Zvi Hirsh b’Shlomo Zalman KLAUSNER-LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1730-1800
9. Shlomo Zalman b’Zvi Hirsh KLAUSNER of Vladimir ~1760-?
Yakov b’Zvi Hirsh LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1760;?
Arye Leib b’Zvi Hirsh ELLENBERG of Lakacz ~1760-?
Yechiel b’Zvi Hirsh LIEBERMAN of Lakacz ~1760-?
10. Yechezkel b’Yakov LIEBERMAN-WITKIND ~1790-?
Simcha Natan b’Arye Leib ELLENBERG of Mosciska & Lwow 1787-1859
Moshe b’Yechiel ELLENBERG of Lakacz ~1790-?
11. Yisachar Dov Ber b’Moshe ELLENBERG of Turobin & Ivanteyvka ~1820-?
12. Yakov b’Yisachar Dov Ber ELLENBERG-WEISSBROT of Turobin & Krasnik
~1850-?

Lineage 2.
1. Zvi Hirsh b’Zcharya Mendl KLAUSNER of Bolechow, Lwow & Lublin
~1610-1690
2. Avraham b’Zvi Hirsh KLAUSNER-FINKELSTEIN of Lublin ~1635-1670

Join the Israel Genealogical Society (IGS) and receive our Journal
"Sharsheret Hadorot"

Dr. Yehuda Klausner
klausner@alumni.princeton.edu

Searching:
KLAUSNER (KLAUZNER, CLOISNER, KLUZNER, etc.), BARZAM, KADISH, BUSHKE
(BOSHKE), ZEINWIRT (ZENVIRT), EILENBERG (ILENBERG), LIEBERMAN (all
spellings), WITKIND, HOCHGELEHRNTER (GELEHRNTER), ENGLMAN (ENGELMAN), IROM
(IRAM), TEUMIM, MICHELSON Great Britain, South Africa, Rhodesia etc.),
Descendants of Moshe ben Meir KATZNELENBOGEN of Chelm, HERLING,
KATZ, (HaCOHEN, KAHANE, COHEN, etc.) >from Galicia, GRINBERG (all spellings).

Joseph Marks, originally Joseph Mordechai Derevianski of Zaludok, Belarus,
had a furniture store in Main Street Bradford Penn. He was trading from
there in 1920 definitely, perhaps 1930s.

He had 2 sons and 4 daughters - names unknown. In 1920 one son was studying
law in Cleveland Ohio. Before this he had volunteered for the US Army in
WW11.

He had a sister Yudis Epstein who lived in N Jersey. She had 4 daughters,
Tilly, Rose, Evelyn and perhaps Betty!

A descendant of the brother of Joseph Marks is interested in discovering if
any of these families are around.

Please reply privately. Thank you.