Date   

shtetl vs. city #belarus

Dov & Varda <yknow@...>
 

Natalie Fatouros writes: "As Sally Bruckheimer and many other Jewishgenners
have pointed out many
times, people had a tendency to say, for various reasons that they were from
a particular city rather than >from some small place nearby. Perhaps their
purporting to be >from a large city gave them some prestige. Or perhaps they
just didn't want to bother trying to spell out the name of their probably
obscure little shtetl to the ship's agents or some other official."

This has tripped me up on my own research. When I questioned my mother about
her maternal grandparents' place of origin, she tells me they were from
Vilna Guberniya. When I tell her this is a large area and not a shtetl,
comparable to a province, she doesn't seem to understand why this info isn't
enough. Even when I tell her that her father is also >from Vilna Guberniya
(he was >from Vasilishki), it doesn't seem to click. Her maternal
grandparents originally had the surname Sakutsky, and I can only assume that
at one point the family might have been in Skuodas, which is certainly not
in Vilna Gub. My best second guess is to look at a list of towns in Vilna
Gub, and see which ones aren't easy to pronounce!

Varda Epstein
Metzad
Israel


Belarus SIG #Belarus shtetl vs. city #belarus

Dov & Varda <yknow@...>
 

Natalie Fatouros writes: "As Sally Bruckheimer and many other Jewishgenners
have pointed out many
times, people had a tendency to say, for various reasons that they were from
a particular city rather than >from some small place nearby. Perhaps their
purporting to be >from a large city gave them some prestige. Or perhaps they
just didn't want to bother trying to spell out the name of their probably
obscure little shtetl to the ship's agents or some other official."

This has tripped me up on my own research. When I questioned my mother about
her maternal grandparents' place of origin, she tells me they were from
Vilna Guberniya. When I tell her this is a large area and not a shtetl,
comparable to a province, she doesn't seem to understand why this info isn't
enough. Even when I tell her that her father is also >from Vilna Guberniya
(he was >from Vasilishki), it doesn't seem to click. Her maternal
grandparents originally had the surname Sakutsky, and I can only assume that
at one point the family might have been in Skuodas, which is certainly not
in Vilna Gub. My best second guess is to look at a list of towns in Vilna
Gub, and see which ones aren't easy to pronounce!

Varda Epstein
Metzad
Israel


Re: Minsk City Jews ( belarus digest: August 05, 2002) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

On August 5, 2002, Marlene Bishow (mlbishow@...) wrote in part:

<<Generally speaking, Jews
were not allowed to live in Minsk proper, but it was the capital of the
province (gubernia) and a place that everyone knew, so they said that was
where they were from.>>

I agree with Ms. Bishow that because Minsk was the capital of the province
and a place everyone knew, people said that was where they came from.

But contrary to what Ms. Bishow apparently believes, many Jews were allowed
to live and in fact did live in Minsk proper.

Jews began trickling into Minsk during the 15th century and during the 16th
they formed a large part of the city's population. In the 17th century,
Jews were granted privileges by the Polish grand duke Jan Kazimierz. During
the 19th century, Jews formed a majority of the city's population. They
supported many established Jewish educational and religious institutions and
many Minsk Jews were open to new maskhalic, labor, and Zionist undertakings.
In fact the city became one of the largest concentrations of Jews within the
Pale. A major Zionist conference was held in Minsk in 1902.

At:

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Belarus/Minskhomeowners.htm

there are Minsk Jewish homeowner lists, respectively dated 1889 and 1911.


I have noticed that many Jewishgenners labor under the misapprehension that
Jews were not permitted to live in major Russian cities. It is true that most
Jews were prohibited >from establishing residence, but quite a few successful
and/or educated Jews did live in cities, like Odessa, Kiev, St, Petersburg,
and even Moscow. As for "lesser" Jews, many managed to bribe their way into
staying in Russian/Ukrainian cities for some lengths of time as merchants,
traders, artisans, students, or servants.

Because during much of its history, Belarus was governed by Polish kings and
nobles, who often looked benevolently at Jews, even for only the monetary
advantages Jews provided them, Jewish life was not as onerous and restrictive
as it later became under Russian domination.

Of course, I do not mean to dispute that. as Ms. Bishow wrote, her
grandfather was born in Sverzhen while others in her family came >from
Smilovichi.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@...
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Minsk City Jews ( belarus digest: August 05, 2002) #belarus

NFatouros@...
 

On August 5, 2002, Marlene Bishow (mlbishow@...) wrote in part:

<<Generally speaking, Jews
were not allowed to live in Minsk proper, but it was the capital of the
province (gubernia) and a place that everyone knew, so they said that was
where they were from.>>

I agree with Ms. Bishow that because Minsk was the capital of the province
and a place everyone knew, people said that was where they came from.

But contrary to what Ms. Bishow apparently believes, many Jews were allowed
to live and in fact did live in Minsk proper.

Jews began trickling into Minsk during the 15th century and during the 16th
they formed a large part of the city's population. In the 17th century,
Jews were granted privileges by the Polish grand duke Jan Kazimierz. During
the 19th century, Jews formed a majority of the city's population. They
supported many established Jewish educational and religious institutions and
many Minsk Jews were open to new maskhalic, labor, and Zionist undertakings.
In fact the city became one of the largest concentrations of Jews within the
Pale. A major Zionist conference was held in Minsk in 1902.

At:

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Belarus/Minskhomeowners.htm

there are Minsk Jewish homeowner lists, respectively dated 1889 and 1911.


I have noticed that many Jewishgenners labor under the misapprehension that
Jews were not permitted to live in major Russian cities. It is true that most
Jews were prohibited >from establishing residence, but quite a few successful
and/or educated Jews did live in cities, like Odessa, Kiev, St, Petersburg,
and even Moscow. As for "lesser" Jews, many managed to bribe their way into
staying in Russian/Ukrainian cities for some lengths of time as merchants,
traders, artisans, students, or servants.

Because during much of its history, Belarus was governed by Polish kings and
nobles, who often looked benevolently at Jews, even for only the monetary
advantages Jews provided them, Jewish life was not as onerous and restrictive
as it later became under Russian domination.

Of course, I do not mean to dispute that. as Ms. Bishow wrote, her
grandfather was born in Sverzhen while others in her family came >from
Smilovichi.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@...
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


Sidney Hyman aged 14 months - London UK #unitedkingdom

Rita Radivan <ritarad@...>
 

Can anyone recognise this photograph of Sidney Hyman aged 14 months taken at
The "Dalston Studio" Dalston Lane.N. London UK

Can anyone date the photograph?

It is posted on View Mate VM1659
To view: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source

Please reply privately

Thank you

Rita Radivan
Manchester UK ritatrad@...
MIKOCHINSKY/COHEN - Bialystok & Manchester UK
POLLOCK - Jacobstat, Latvia & Manchester UK
ALTMAN - Warsaw/Czestokova & London UK
HYMAN - ? & London UK


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Sidney Hyman aged 14 months - London UK #unitedkingdom

Rita Radivan <ritarad@...>
 

Can anyone recognise this photograph of Sidney Hyman aged 14 months taken at
The "Dalston Studio" Dalston Lane.N. London UK

Can anyone date the photograph?

It is posted on View Mate VM1659
To view: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source

Please reply privately

Thank you

Rita Radivan
Manchester UK ritatrad@...
MIKOCHINSKY/COHEN - Bialystok & Manchester UK
POLLOCK - Jacobstat, Latvia & Manchester UK
ALTMAN - Warsaw/Czestokova & London UK
HYMAN - ? & London UK


Looking for details on Katie WRESCHNER b. 1894 Whitechapel UK #general

Wreschner, Jonathan <jonathan.wreschner@...>
 

Hello,

Just for fun, I tried the FreeBMD site http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
with my surname and found a Katie WRESCHNER born in Whitechapel in Dec
1894. She may be a first cousin once removed of mine, >from a part of the
family with which no contact has
been maintained for about 110 years!!

How do I find details about her parents, siblings and
descendants? I did want to try the UK Census of 1901, but the site is
still unavailable.

Thanks,

Jonathan WRESCHNER
Jerusalem

Researching WRESCHNER (>from Poznan district), ZERNIK (anywhere)


Sidney Hyman aged 14 months - London UK #general

Rita Radivan <ritarad@...>
 

Can anyone recognise this photograph of Sidney HYMAN aged 14 months taken
at The "Dalston Studio" Dalston Lane.N. London UK

Can anyone date the photograph?

It is posted on View Mate VM1659
To view: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source/vm1659.html

Please reply privately

Thank you

Rita Radivan
Manchester UK ritatrad@...
MIKOCHINSKY/COHEN - Bialystok & Manchester UK
POLLOCK - Jacobstat, Latvia & Manchester UK
ALTMAN - Warsaw/Czestokova & London UK
HYMAN - ? & London UK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Looking for details on Katie WRESCHNER b. 1894 Whitechapel UK #general

Wreschner, Jonathan <jonathan.wreschner@...>
 

Hello,

Just for fun, I tried the FreeBMD site http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
with my surname and found a Katie WRESCHNER born in Whitechapel in Dec
1894. She may be a first cousin once removed of mine, >from a part of the
family with which no contact has
been maintained for about 110 years!!

How do I find details about her parents, siblings and
descendants? I did want to try the UK Census of 1901, but the site is
still unavailable.

Thanks,

Jonathan WRESCHNER
Jerusalem

Researching WRESCHNER (>from Poznan district), ZERNIK (anywhere)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Sidney Hyman aged 14 months - London UK #general

Rita Radivan <ritarad@...>
 

Can anyone recognise this photograph of Sidney HYMAN aged 14 months taken
at The "Dalston Studio" Dalston Lane.N. London UK

Can anyone date the photograph?

It is posted on View Mate VM1659
To view: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source/vm1659.html

Please reply privately

Thank you

Rita Radivan
Manchester UK ritatrad@...
MIKOCHINSKY/COHEN - Bialystok & Manchester UK
POLLOCK - Jacobstat, Latvia & Manchester UK
ALTMAN - Warsaw/Czestokova & London UK
HYMAN - ? & London UK


Help needed: translations and information buried in old photos #general

Alex Bender <alemik@...>
 

Hello Jewishgenners,

Firstly, thanks to those of you who responded to my inquiry
regarding the names of photographers on old photos; I am indeed
convinced that "Chonovitz" and "Xonoburr" are the same person,
but in different languages.

I've decided to post pictures of the two old family photographs in
my possession. I'm hoping that some learned people will able to
translate some words for me, and perhaps answer some questions
based on the photos themselves.

Here is the first photograph, front and back:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/familyvilna.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/familyvilnaback.jpg

This picture is likely >from the 1880s. My great-grandfather, Jacob
BENDER, is the one of the younger men in the picture; I do not know
if that was his name in the old country. He was >from Vilna, as it
says on the front. The back contains what appears to be Russian,
and I'd appreciate a translation of the words. I scanned it large
because there is some smaller text at the very bottom.

Here is the second picture:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/family1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/family1back.jpg

This pic is >from the 1870s or 1880s. My great-grandmother is one
of the younger girls. Her name in this country was Sarah LEVENSON
before marrying Jacob Bender, but I do not know if she was born
with that name. Again, I would greatly appreciate a translation of
what appears to be Polish on the back (the second link). As with the
other, it is scanned large because there is smaller text at the
bottom. I currently do not know my great-grandmother's country of
origin and i am hoping that the words on the back will reveal it.

Regarding both photos, I am curious whether or not the dress
reveals anything about the respective families. For instance, is it
possible to tell whether any of my ancestors were Hasids, or
whether or not they were wealthy? I don't have enough knowledge
of history and context to be able to make any inferences >from the
pictures.

Thanks again to anybody who is able to help me out.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help needed: translations and information buried in old photos #general

Alex Bender <alemik@...>
 

Hello Jewishgenners,

Firstly, thanks to those of you who responded to my inquiry
regarding the names of photographers on old photos; I am indeed
convinced that "Chonovitz" and "Xonoburr" are the same person,
but in different languages.

I've decided to post pictures of the two old family photographs in
my possession. I'm hoping that some learned people will able to
translate some words for me, and perhaps answer some questions
based on the photos themselves.

Here is the first photograph, front and back:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/familyvilna.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/familyvilnaback.jpg

This picture is likely >from the 1880s. My great-grandfather, Jacob
BENDER, is the one of the younger men in the picture; I do not know
if that was his name in the old country. He was >from Vilna, as it
says on the front. The back contains what appears to be Russian,
and I'd appreciate a translation of the words. I scanned it large
because there is some smaller text at the very bottom.

Here is the second picture:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/family1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jawbreaker/family1back.jpg

This pic is >from the 1870s or 1880s. My great-grandmother is one
of the younger girls. Her name in this country was Sarah LEVENSON
before marrying Jacob Bender, but I do not know if she was born
with that name. Again, I would greatly appreciate a translation of
what appears to be Polish on the back (the second link). As with the
other, it is scanned large because there is smaller text at the
bottom. I currently do not know my great-grandmother's country of
origin and i am hoping that the words on the back will reveal it.

Regarding both photos, I am curious whether or not the dress
reveals anything about the respective families. For instance, is it
possible to tell whether any of my ancestors were Hasids, or
whether or not they were wealthy? I don't have enough knowledge
of history and context to be able to make any inferences >from the
pictures.

Thanks again to anybody who is able to help me out.


Orbach- Gishen Search in Australia #southafrica

Allen & Dinah Katz <aldikat@...>
 

Looking for ORBACH and GISHEN in Melbourne, Australia: Malla nee GISHEN
married Someone ORBACH. Malla (Malka) was the daughter of Beryl(Dov)-Hershel
and Reizel GISHEN, and sister to Baruch and Moshe, who all perished in the
Shoah.
Can anyone help?
Allen Katz
Raanana Israel


FEINBERG #southafrica

Lehmkuhl <rsa2can@...>
 

Hi List members
Anyone researching the FEINBERG family that lived in the Ermelo - Bethal
areas?

______________________________________
Anne Lehmkuhl=A0 http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Orbach- Gishen Search in Australia #southafrica

Allen & Dinah Katz <aldikat@...>
 

Looking for ORBACH and GISHEN in Melbourne, Australia: Malla nee GISHEN
married Someone ORBACH. Malla (Malka) was the daughter of Beryl(Dov)-Hershel
and Reizel GISHEN, and sister to Baruch and Moshe, who all perished in the
Shoah.
Can anyone help?
Allen Katz
Raanana Israel


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica FEINBERG #southafrica

Lehmkuhl <rsa2can@...>
 

Hi List members
Anyone researching the FEINBERG family that lived in the Ermelo - Bethal
areas?

______________________________________
Anne Lehmkuhl=A0 http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/


Vital Records in Lithuania #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Just because you go to the Archives, it does not mean they will have your
records. Many towns no longer have records or have only minimal records
which are not vital records, i.e., Census, Revision Lists or Tax Records.
In the instance of Kupiskis, Lithuania, the pre-1900 vital records (birth,
marriage, death) no longer exist.

So your friend's experience is not an unlikely one.

Prior to going to Lithuania, she should have checked with the Litvak SIG to
determine what actual records were available for her town, if any at all.
Some may have been located in the Kaunas Archives as opposed to the Vilnius
Archives. If she had known what district her town was in, she might have
been able to locate information relating to her town in that way. For
instance, the 1892-1894 Ukmerge Family List contained the names of many
families >from Kupiskis.

Your friend can still go to the Litvak SIG web site on JewishGen and locate
any pertinent information and then join the corresponding Litvak SIG
district group or contact the appropriate Archive to obtain records.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The Litvak SIG can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/


Re: First Name: Kazimiera #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Yaacov Slizak of Ireland posted as follows:

"Is the polish first name "Kazimiera" a typical Jewish one? I have never
heard of this one.

A Polish pal friend of mine is called SPOSOB - surname I am researching -
but his family (up to grandparents) have no knowledge of any Jewish
heritage.

His grandfather is called Roman and he's >from Radzyn Podlaski (Pol). His
grand-aunt is called Kazimiera and she's >from Ivano Frankivsk (Ukr)."

The Polish name Kazimiera for a female is one that I do not
recognize. There are several similar names for *males* which were used by
Jews in Poland and in some other Eastern European countries: Kazimir and
Kazimierz, plus a few variant spellings. It is possible that the name
Kazimiera was used for females in correspondence to these male names --
this practice was not uncommon both in secular Europe and within Jewish
usage as well. It was carried out by tacking on an extension to the male
name.

In any event, these names for men were recognized in Poland during the
nineteenth century by the rabbinate as "New" secular kinuim which could be
properly written in a Get (Jewish divorce contract). So, in this sense,
the name Kazimiera has a degree of validity for Jewish women, however, I
have not found any support for its authoritative use by Jews within the
confines of Jewish divorce law.

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


TribeFinder #general

J Schamroth <scham@...>
 

The TribeFinder project was a private initiative on the Shtetlinks/Krakow
website designed to track tribal status (Kohen and Levi) of Krakow
ancestors.

The trial phase is complete, and we are now pleased to announce that the
TribeFinder project will cater to ALL SHTETLS that are found on the
Shtetlinks site. In other words, you can now share and obtain information
about Tribal Status for any Shtetl.

If you are aware of the Tribal Status of an ancestor, please consider
recording the data with TribeFinder. It can be found by following the link
at the top of the Shtetlinks/Krakow homepage:

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Krakow/

Irrespective, please take a look at the TribeFinder project where you will
find a lot of info about tribal lineage.

J Schamroth
Shtetlinks/Krakow Webmaster


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Vital Records in Lithuania #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

Just because you go to the Archives, it does not mean they will have your
records. Many towns no longer have records or have only minimal records
which are not vital records, i.e., Census, Revision Lists or Tax Records.
In the instance of Kupiskis, Lithuania, the pre-1900 vital records (birth,
marriage, death) no longer exist.

So your friend's experience is not an unlikely one.

Prior to going to Lithuania, she should have checked with the Litvak SIG to
determine what actual records were available for her town, if any at all.
Some may have been located in the Kaunas Archives as opposed to the Vilnius
Archives. If she had known what district her town was in, she might have
been able to locate information relating to her town in that way. For
instance, the 1892-1894 Ukmerge Family List contained the names of many
families >from Kupiskis.

Your friend can still go to the Litvak SIG web site on JewishGen and locate
any pertinent information and then join the corresponding Litvak SIG
district group or contact the appropriate Archive to obtain records.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The Litvak SIG can be found at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/