Date   

Re: Hohenlohekreis Cemetery Book #germany

Jan Bousse <boussejan@...>
 

Brian,
There is a lot of information in Google on "J=FCdische Friedh=F6fe" in
various places. Mostly in German, it's useful to know that language. I
obtained information and photocopies of Jewish tombs in Hohebach. The town
hall of D=F6rzbach-Hohebach was very helpful, they referred me to a Mr.
H=E4fele and gave me his telephone number. I spoke to him and he arranged
for the town admin. to send me pictures of two tombs I was researching. I
noticed that a K. H=E4fele, probably the same person, wrote a book about
Jewish life in Hohebach. Since your research concerns the same book where
the Hohebach cemetery is recorded, I presume that Mr. H=E4fele could
confirm if your STERNs are buried in one of them. BTW, there seems to be
also a cemetery in Oelnhausen, and Berlichingen is now part of Sch=F6ntal.
Mr. H=E4fele's number is : (0)7937.353 or 228. If you want, I could call
him.
You should give me the necessary details for your query. He does not use
an e-mail address, but I have the one for D=F6rzbach, where I believe he
works.
If you don't have the url for these sites on Google, I can give you some.

Jan Bousse, Oostende, Belgium

MODERATOR NOTE: Accented characters are not understood by our listserver
and their use should be avoided in messages sent for posting to this
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German SIG #Germany Re: Hohenlohekreis Cemetery Book #germany

Jan Bousse <boussejan@...>
 

Brian,
There is a lot of information in Google on "J=FCdische Friedh=F6fe" in
various places. Mostly in German, it's useful to know that language. I
obtained information and photocopies of Jewish tombs in Hohebach. The town
hall of D=F6rzbach-Hohebach was very helpful, they referred me to a Mr.
H=E4fele and gave me his telephone number. I spoke to him and he arranged
for the town admin. to send me pictures of two tombs I was researching. I
noticed that a K. H=E4fele, probably the same person, wrote a book about
Jewish life in Hohebach. Since your research concerns the same book where
the Hohebach cemetery is recorded, I presume that Mr. H=E4fele could
confirm if your STERNs are buried in one of them. BTW, there seems to be
also a cemetery in Oelnhausen, and Berlichingen is now part of Sch=F6ntal.
Mr. H=E4fele's number is : (0)7937.353 or 228. If you want, I could call
him.
You should give me the necessary details for your query. He does not use
an e-mail address, but I have the one for D=F6rzbach, where I believe he
works.
If you don't have the url for these sites on Google, I can give you some.

Jan Bousse, Oostende, Belgium

MODERATOR NOTE: Accented characters are not understood by our listserver
and their use should be avoided in messages sent for posting to this
Forum. If you include a word with an umlaut, you should also write the
word with the umlauted vowel followed by an "e". Example:
Löwe / Lo(umlaut)we / Loewe


Marriage in Leszniow #galicia

Henry Sinai <hmsinai@...>
 

My maternal grandparents were married in Leszniow in 1910.
Would anyone have any idea why the couple who had been living in Berlin
almost all their lives (since young children) would get married in Leszniow?
Was there a requirement to get married in the country of one's birth ? The
bride was born in Rzeszow and the groom in Brody.

Henry Sinai
Raanana
Israel

Searching:
PARNES (Brody, Galicia); Berlin
GOLDENBERG (Brody, Galicia); Berlin
MOSZKOWSKI Rzeszow, Berlin
SOBEL Galicia; Berlin


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Marriage in Leszniow #galicia

Henry Sinai <hmsinai@...>
 

My maternal grandparents were married in Leszniow in 1910.
Would anyone have any idea why the couple who had been living in Berlin
almost all their lives (since young children) would get married in Leszniow?
Was there a requirement to get married in the country of one's birth ? The
bride was born in Rzeszow and the groom in Brody.

Henry Sinai
Raanana
Israel

Searching:
PARNES (Brody, Galicia); Berlin
GOLDENBERG (Brody, Galicia); Berlin
MOSZKOWSKI Rzeszow, Berlin
SOBEL Galicia; Berlin


Avodat HaLevy (HOROWITZ) #rabbinic

ALMCleve@...
 

Dear Rav-Siggers,

I continue to research the family of R' Aaron b' Moshe Halevy
HOROWITZ.

I have found a reference to the effect that the *two* title pages of
Avodath Halevy (published posthumously by his sons and grandson in
Lemberg in 1862) contain information about R' Aaron b' Moshe Halevy
HOROWITZ's family tree.

I would very much appreciate if you could contact me if you happen
to have a copy of this book or if you know where I can find one.
Please respond privately.

Thanks for your help.

Aubrey Mendelow
Cleveland, OH
mailto:ALMCleve@aol.com


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Avodat HaLevy (HOROWITZ) #rabbinic

ALMCleve@...
 

Dear Rav-Siggers,

I continue to research the family of R' Aaron b' Moshe Halevy
HOROWITZ.

I have found a reference to the effect that the *two* title pages of
Avodath Halevy (published posthumously by his sons and grandson in
Lemberg in 1862) contain information about R' Aaron b' Moshe Halevy
HOROWITZ's family tree.

I would very much appreciate if you could contact me if you happen
to have a copy of this book or if you know where I can find one.
Please respond privately.

Thanks for your help.

Aubrey Mendelow
Cleveland, OH
mailto:ALMCleve@aol.com


e. mail Jewish new year cards #general

Evie000@...
 

came across this in a Jewish English newspaper out of Phila,
Pa.
www.learn.jtsa.edu/postcard/rh.html..Old Jewish New Year
Cards.
Shalom and Happy
Holidays
Evelyn Yager, Downingtown, Pa ..
evie000@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen e. mail Jewish new year cards #general

Evie000@...
 

came across this in a Jewish English newspaper out of Phila,
Pa.
www.learn.jtsa.edu/postcard/rh.html..Old Jewish New Year
Cards.
Shalom and Happy
Holidays
Evelyn Yager, Downingtown, Pa ..
evie000@aol.com


Re: seeking access to NY records in FHL film #general

Abraham D. Gordom <hanale@...>
 

Susan,

Have you contacted the FHL at the Mormon Church in Los Angeles for the film
#1254873? They may have a copy of it or they can order one for you.

Sylvia Gordon
New York

Suzecrazy@aol.com wrote:

Shana Tova,
A fellow Genner was kind enough to find my GGGrandfather in the 1880
census. I had been searching Getzler, and she found it under Getsler!
I was given the census data >from the 1880 FHL discs, but I would love to see
it with my own eyes. Does anyone have access to NYC FHL film 1254873 Nara
film T9-0873 page 165D ?

I'm so excited about this, I can't wait!! NOW.......I have to find
out 1)exactly where in Hungary they're >from 2) where in NY they lived in
1880 3) where they are buried.. etc etc etc Here I go again.
Sincerely,
Susan Stock
Agoura Hills, Ca


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: seeking access to NY records in FHL film #general

Abraham D. Gordom <hanale@...>
 

Susan,

Have you contacted the FHL at the Mormon Church in Los Angeles for the film
#1254873? They may have a copy of it or they can order one for you.

Sylvia Gordon
New York

Suzecrazy@aol.com wrote:

Shana Tova,
A fellow Genner was kind enough to find my GGGrandfather in the 1880
census. I had been searching Getzler, and she found it under Getsler!
I was given the census data >from the 1880 FHL discs, but I would love to see
it with my own eyes. Does anyone have access to NYC FHL film 1254873 Nara
film T9-0873 page 165D ?

I'm so excited about this, I can't wait!! NOW.......I have to find
out 1)exactly where in Hungary they're >from 2) where in NY they lived in
1880 3) where they are buried.. etc etc etc Here I go again.
Sincerely,
Susan Stock
Agoura Hills, Ca


landsmanshaften questions #general

Jerome Seligsohn <jselig1315@...>
 

Genners:

Owing to the large number of messages regarding
landsmanshaften please allow me to make the following
points:

1 - I am not an expert in this area. I only claim
some familiarity with the available records written in
English. My quest has been focussed on the gathering
of names so that the membership can connect to their
antecedents.

2 - I research at YIVO, at the Center for Jewish History
on West 16th St, NY, NY, where I work solely on archives
relating to Belarus.

3 - I cannot speak for the archivists at YIVO, but I
would hazard a guess that they will not do research for
those unable to visit the library in person. Contact
their website for more information.

4 - I start my research at < www.jgsny.org >, where I
click on "Landsmanshaften", and then click on "918
landsmanshaften organizations". I then work off the
RG labelled records.

5 - Permit me to conjecture that among the factors
which brought about the dissolution of the
landsmanshaften was the lack of a Yiddish-speaking
constituency and the substitution of modern job
medical insurance and medicare for the welfare needs
of the group. Please note the word "conjecture".

6 - The landsmanshaften were registered with New York
State. Their dissolution required the forwarding of
their records to the State of New York [for NY
organizations].

Jerome Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev/Dnepr


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen landsmanshaften questions #general

Jerome Seligsohn <jselig1315@...>
 

Genners:

Owing to the large number of messages regarding
landsmanshaften please allow me to make the following
points:

1 - I am not an expert in this area. I only claim
some familiarity with the available records written in
English. My quest has been focussed on the gathering
of names so that the membership can connect to their
antecedents.

2 - I research at YIVO, at the Center for Jewish History
on West 16th St, NY, NY, where I work solely on archives
relating to Belarus.

3 - I cannot speak for the archivists at YIVO, but I
would hazard a guess that they will not do research for
those unable to visit the library in person. Contact
their website for more information.

4 - I start my research at < www.jgsny.org >, where I
click on "Landsmanshaften", and then click on "918
landsmanshaften organizations". I then work off the
RG labelled records.

5 - Permit me to conjecture that among the factors
which brought about the dissolution of the
landsmanshaften was the lack of a Yiddish-speaking
constituency and the substitution of modern job
medical insurance and medicare for the welfare needs
of the group. Please note the word "conjecture".

6 - The landsmanshaften were registered with New York
State. Their dissolution required the forwarding of
their records to the State of New York [for NY
organizations].

Jerome Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev/Dnepr


Re: notation in 1900 Federal Census/Occupation Codes #general

Joan Parker <housemom@...>
 

Below is a link to occupation codes
others may find of use.

http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/volii/92occup.html

and this was to 1920 and others.

Good luck.
Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and
Brooklyn, NY; PINKUS and
WINOGRAD-Odessa, Ukraine and Brooklyn, NY;
GELFAND-Minsk and Bronx, NY; YEHUDIS;
KATZ, Bronx, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martha Lev-Zion" <martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:53 AM
Subject: notation in 1900 Federal Census
Does anyone know what the pencilled notation, after the citizenship
column but in the occupation column: "n.g. 0-1-7" might mean?
Many thanks. Gmar chatima tova!
Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Israel
martha@BGUMAIL.BGU.AC.IL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: notation in 1900 Federal Census/Occupation Codes #general

Joan Parker <housemom@...>
 

Below is a link to occupation codes
others may find of use.

http://www.ipums.umn.edu/usa/volii/92occup.html

and this was to 1920 and others.

Good luck.
Joan Parker
Miami, FL
Searching: GOLDBERG and GOODSTEIN-Plock, Poland/Russia and
Brooklyn, NY; PINKUS and
WINOGRAD-Odessa, Ukraine and Brooklyn, NY;
GELFAND-Minsk and Bronx, NY; YEHUDIS;
KATZ, Bronx, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martha Lev-Zion" <martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:53 AM
Subject: notation in 1900 Federal Census
Does anyone know what the pencilled notation, after the citizenship
column but in the occupation column: "n.g. 0-1-7" might mean?
Many thanks. Gmar chatima tova!
Martha Levinson Lev-Zion, Israel
martha@BGUMAIL.BGU.AC.IL


Re: Town of P'shischah & Rabbi Ha Yehudi Ha Kadosh #general

Jacob D. Goldstein <jake@...>
 

At 11:04 AM 9/13/2002, MKorbman@levi.com wrote:

Is anyone familiar with the town of P'shischah? In 1813 this town was
listed as Poland. I'm not quite sure where in Poland this town could be [...]

I recently discovered that my GGrandmother is a direct descendant of Rabbi
Yaakov Yitzchak Rabinovich or known as Ha Yehudi Ha Kadosh. Where can I
find more information regarding him and his lineage.
The town is Przysucha. His name was Ya'akov Yitzchak ben Asher. You'll
find an article about him in the Encyclopaedia Judaica, under "Przysucha."

You may want to post your request for information on his lineage on RavSig,
JewishGen's Rabbinical Genealogy SIG. To subscribe, go to
http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv/sigs.htm

Jake Goldstein
Boston, Massachusetts


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Town of P'shischah & Rabbi Ha Yehudi Ha Kadosh #general

Jacob D. Goldstein <jake@...>
 

At 11:04 AM 9/13/2002, MKorbman@levi.com wrote:

Is anyone familiar with the town of P'shischah? In 1813 this town was
listed as Poland. I'm not quite sure where in Poland this town could be [...]

I recently discovered that my GGrandmother is a direct descendant of Rabbi
Yaakov Yitzchak Rabinovich or known as Ha Yehudi Ha Kadosh. Where can I
find more information regarding him and his lineage.
The town is Przysucha. His name was Ya'akov Yitzchak ben Asher. You'll
find an article about him in the Encyclopaedia Judaica, under "Przysucha."

You may want to post your request for information on his lineage on RavSig,
JewishGen's Rabbinical Genealogy SIG. To subscribe, go to
http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv/sigs.htm

Jake Goldstein
Boston, Massachusetts


Re: JAFFE #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

On 2002.09.12, Micheline Gutmann <asso.genami@free.fr> wrote:

Who are Esther's ancestors?
I have this list. Is it correct? Is it possible to complete it?
The lines Micheline Guttman listed as ancestors of Ester, the
mother-in-law of Yehudah-Leib ben Hagra, are not the correct lines.
The details are in Eizenstadt's "Daat Kedoshim". After the chagim I
will have time to give the details on RavSIG.

Gmar Khatimakh Tovah

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: JAFFE #rabbinic

Chaim freedman
 

On 2002.09.12, Micheline Gutmann <asso.genami@free.fr> wrote:

Who are Esther's ancestors?
I have this list. Is it correct? Is it possible to complete it?
The lines Micheline Guttman listed as ancestors of Ester, the
mother-in-law of Yehudah-Leib ben Hagra, are not the correct lines.
The details are in Eizenstadt's "Daat Kedoshim". After the chagim I
will have time to give the details on RavSIG.

Gmar Khatimakh Tovah

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
chaimjan@zahav.net.il
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Colonies_of_Ukraine/index.htm


University in Podolya #ukraine

CLAUSSEN DAN and DIANE <didado@...>
 

I don't know what the University would be there. However, I recently
learned through getting the very sparce records of my grandfather's college
degree >from Valparaiso University in 1914, that he must have gone to college
in the Ukraine and studied mathematics and engineering. He graduated with a
full bachelors degree in engineering that was supposed to take 3 full years
in just 18 mos. about half of the time. The archivist seemed to be
fascinated with the remarkable achievements and excellent grades in very
advanced courses in calculous and civil and chemical engineering. He worked
for US Steel after that time until the 1930's. Apparently he must have had
prior studies in the Ukraine in order to get approval to skip some courses
and take the more advanced ones.

He must have been studying advance courses at a young age though and somehow
was also studying Hebrew and politics. On an audio taped interview made in
1980, his youngest brother, Uncle Eddie, then 82 yrs. old, some time after
my grandfather died, stated that my grandfather, Peisach or Peter Isaac
Kriegman, went away >from their village Rogachev, where the rest of the
family was engaged originally in tanning and later owned a grist mill. At a
relative young age, maybe fourteen or younger he went away >from the family
of 9 and studied in Kiev. He was referred to as "the student". The name of
a University or other educational institution where Jews were welcomed to
study, I do not know. But of course, I would be very interested.

My Grandfather, taught Hebrew as a teenager after studying (in Kiev, I
presume.) Perhaps this was some kind of itinerant mission that young men
were sent on >from some Yeshiva in Kiev to other Ukraine Jewish communities.
I wonder about that because my grandmother met him first in Ukraine and many
years later again, in the US. He was hired by her father to teach her and
her siblings Hebrew when she was a girl, 7 years younger than he, in a
village near Berdichev, Chernorudska. Another element to this family
history is that he became involved in the first Bolshevik movement and
helped print literature to spread information about the political movement.
He learned to speak Russian well according to his brother, though the rest
of the family in Rogachev spoke "very little Russian" and "mostly Yiddish".
His brother, Uncle Eddie, volunteered in the interview that when he studied
in Kiev, he became "very interested in alot of politics" and that around
Kiev "was where most of the revolutionaries came from." His involvement
with the revolutionaries was somehow interceded by being inducted into the
Russian Army. This was the main impetus for the family to leave Ukraine.
As Eddie put it, after Peter was taken into the army they knew the second
brother, "Morris would be next" and then the two other brothers. He said
sometimes boys would be inscribed at a young age and never was allowed out,
put in the position to be killed, live a horrible life and never be able to
do anything with their lives. The family helped my grandfather, Peter,
desert >from the army, helped get him out of the country first and then the
others.

Another part of this story is that ggrandfather, Abraham, his brother and
cousins were known as strong men that were respected by and friendly with
the Mayor and the governor of Volynia Gubernia. His father had a friendship
with the "governor of Volynia." Abraham had to stop the second generation
tanning business because it was "very hard work" and caused terrible
"arthritis". Somehow he had "a little land"on which they used to grow
potatoes and other vegetables on which to survive. They built on this land
a grist mill and somehow had "a little money, not much" to buy some
machinery >from Germany to build a factory. They worked out a barter system
with the local peasants who grew the wheat. According to Eddie, the
governor of Volynia Gubernia, offered to help keep Morris out of the army
and urged the family not to leave. But they didn't trust this would happen,
and by 1910 the whole family of parents and 7 children left. The way the
last 5 members funded their passage >from the Ukraine to US through Belgium
was by selling the Mill to the Governor of Volynia.

I just learned this remarkable story about the family and the governor and
heard this remarkable interview on tape for the first time, about a month
ago, through developing relationships over the internet with family members
I have never actually met, but knew of. Our families had not communicated
for over 50 years! We found each other through Jewishgen's Family Finder.
By the way, this is only one instance of many incredible, wonderful,
life-affirming experiences made possible by Jewishgen in my research over
the last 4 years.

I guess this underscores why I and many of you should make a pledge and
contribution of whatever we can to support Jewishgen.


Diane Kriegman Claussen
Atlanta, GA
Researching: KRIEGMAN (Rogachev,Novograd Volynskiy, New Jersey, Chicago);
BRICHKE (Rogachev, Novgorad Volynskiy, New Jersey, Chicago); SHARE /
CHERNORUDSKY (Berdichev, Chicago); SMASON (Grodno, Philadelphia, Denver,
Chicago); KNOPF (Berlin, Germany Philadelphia, Chicago); REDMAN (Ladyzhinka,
Chicago); SHPARAGO (Dubova, Ternovka, Nikolaev)
-diane,daniel, and the dogs....still howling at the moon-
didado@mindspring.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine University in Podolya #ukraine

CLAUSSEN DAN and DIANE <didado@...>
 

I don't know what the University would be there. However, I recently
learned through getting the very sparce records of my grandfather's college
degree >from Valparaiso University in 1914, that he must have gone to college
in the Ukraine and studied mathematics and engineering. He graduated with a
full bachelors degree in engineering that was supposed to take 3 full years
in just 18 mos. about half of the time. The archivist seemed to be
fascinated with the remarkable achievements and excellent grades in very
advanced courses in calculous and civil and chemical engineering. He worked
for US Steel after that time until the 1930's. Apparently he must have had
prior studies in the Ukraine in order to get approval to skip some courses
and take the more advanced ones.

He must have been studying advance courses at a young age though and somehow
was also studying Hebrew and politics. On an audio taped interview made in
1980, his youngest brother, Uncle Eddie, then 82 yrs. old, some time after
my grandfather died, stated that my grandfather, Peisach or Peter Isaac
Kriegman, went away >from their village Rogachev, where the rest of the
family was engaged originally in tanning and later owned a grist mill. At a
relative young age, maybe fourteen or younger he went away >from the family
of 9 and studied in Kiev. He was referred to as "the student". The name of
a University or other educational institution where Jews were welcomed to
study, I do not know. But of course, I would be very interested.

My Grandfather, taught Hebrew as a teenager after studying (in Kiev, I
presume.) Perhaps this was some kind of itinerant mission that young men
were sent on >from some Yeshiva in Kiev to other Ukraine Jewish communities.
I wonder about that because my grandmother met him first in Ukraine and many
years later again, in the US. He was hired by her father to teach her and
her siblings Hebrew when she was a girl, 7 years younger than he, in a
village near Berdichev, Chernorudska. Another element to this family
history is that he became involved in the first Bolshevik movement and
helped print literature to spread information about the political movement.
He learned to speak Russian well according to his brother, though the rest
of the family in Rogachev spoke "very little Russian" and "mostly Yiddish".
His brother, Uncle Eddie, volunteered in the interview that when he studied
in Kiev, he became "very interested in alot of politics" and that around
Kiev "was where most of the revolutionaries came from." His involvement
with the revolutionaries was somehow interceded by being inducted into the
Russian Army. This was the main impetus for the family to leave Ukraine.
As Eddie put it, after Peter was taken into the army they knew the second
brother, "Morris would be next" and then the two other brothers. He said
sometimes boys would be inscribed at a young age and never was allowed out,
put in the position to be killed, live a horrible life and never be able to
do anything with their lives. The family helped my grandfather, Peter,
desert >from the army, helped get him out of the country first and then the
others.

Another part of this story is that ggrandfather, Abraham, his brother and
cousins were known as strong men that were respected by and friendly with
the Mayor and the governor of Volynia Gubernia. His father had a friendship
with the "governor of Volynia." Abraham had to stop the second generation
tanning business because it was "very hard work" and caused terrible
"arthritis". Somehow he had "a little land"on which they used to grow
potatoes and other vegetables on which to survive. They built on this land
a grist mill and somehow had "a little money, not much" to buy some
machinery >from Germany to build a factory. They worked out a barter system
with the local peasants who grew the wheat. According to Eddie, the
governor of Volynia Gubernia, offered to help keep Morris out of the army
and urged the family not to leave. But they didn't trust this would happen,
and by 1910 the whole family of parents and 7 children left. The way the
last 5 members funded their passage >from the Ukraine to US through Belgium
was by selling the Mill to the Governor of Volynia.

I just learned this remarkable story about the family and the governor and
heard this remarkable interview on tape for the first time, about a month
ago, through developing relationships over the internet with family members
I have never actually met, but knew of. Our families had not communicated
for over 50 years! We found each other through Jewishgen's Family Finder.
By the way, this is only one instance of many incredible, wonderful,
life-affirming experiences made possible by Jewishgen in my research over
the last 4 years.

I guess this underscores why I and many of you should make a pledge and
contribution of whatever we can to support Jewishgen.


Diane Kriegman Claussen
Atlanta, GA
Researching: KRIEGMAN (Rogachev,Novograd Volynskiy, New Jersey, Chicago);
BRICHKE (Rogachev, Novgorad Volynskiy, New Jersey, Chicago); SHARE /
CHERNORUDSKY (Berdichev, Chicago); SMASON (Grodno, Philadelphia, Denver,
Chicago); KNOPF (Berlin, Germany Philadelphia, Chicago); REDMAN (Ladyzhinka,
Chicago); SHPARAGO (Dubova, Ternovka, Nikolaev)
-diane,daniel, and the dogs....still howling at the moon-
didado@mindspring.com