The following is being posted to many mailing list that may be able to identify and/or help return to the family.

If you have any information, do not contact me, but Tracy

at the following address.

tlesage@triad.rr.com

Thanx, Ley K O'Connor


> Hello list members,
> Several days ago I posted the message below. I have had
several
responses and as yet we have not identified the disk. I am
writing now to
let you know that the image has been posted on the internet and
can be
viewed at the following addresses.
> Large image is at
> http://www.cygnetserv.com/public/horrath.jpg
> and a smaller image is at
> http://www.cygnetserv.com/public/horrath_m.jpg .
>
>
>
> Original Message:
>
> > I am sending this to several lists. A co-worker has an
item that
his
> father brought home after World War II. They have a lot of
questions
about
> this disc. The ultimate goal is to return this disc to the
family if
> possible (or if wanted). To start with I think we need to
find out just
> what the disc is. If any one is interested in seeing an image
please
> contact me off the list at tlesage@triad.rr.com and I will
email the image
> to you.
> > Thank you for any assistance,
> > Tracy LeSage
> >
> > Here's what I know: The disc was found in 1945 outside of an
oven that
> contained one body.
> >
> > The camp was Buchenwald in Germany. The disc is about 4 1/2"
in
diameter.
> It is brown hard plastic with a round disc of aluminum screwed
to it.
> >
> > The name inscribed is Alexander Horrath. The number 10663 is
also
stamped
> above the name. There are several other series of numbers but
they do not
> have any obvious meaning.
> >
> > Please let me know what if anything you find out. We would
definitely
like
> to get this to a surviving member of the family if possible.
>


Moderator VK: Have you suggested to Tracy that she check closely to see whether the name might be Horvath? In that case, the victim would have been a Hungarian and this info might help her to trace survivors.

The following is being posted to many mailing list that may be able to identify and/or help return to the family.

If you have any information, do not contact me, but Tracy

at the following address.

tlesage@triad.rr.com

Thanx, Ley K O'Connor


> Hello list members,
> Several days ago I posted the message below. I have had
several
responses and as yet we have not identified the disk. I am
writing now to
let you know that the image has been posted on the internet and
can be
viewed at the following addresses.
> Large image is at
> http://www.cygnetserv.com/public/horrath.jpg
> and a smaller image is at
> http://www.cygnetserv.com/public/horrath_m.jpg .
>
>
>
> Original Message:
>
> > I am sending this to several lists. A co-worker has an
item that
his
> father brought home after World War II. They have a lot of
questions
about
> this disc. The ultimate goal is to return this disc to the
family if
> possible (or if wanted). To start with I think we need to
find out just
> what the disc is. If any one is interested in seeing an image
please
> contact me off the list at tlesage@triad.rr.com and I will
email the image
> to you.
> > Thank you for any assistance,
> > Tracy LeSage
> >
> > Here's what I know: The disc was found in 1945 outside of an
oven that
> contained one body.
> >
> > The camp was Buchenwald in Germany. The disc is about 4 1/2"
in
diameter.
> It is brown hard plastic with a round disc of aluminum screwed
to it.
> >
> > The name inscribed is Alexander Horrath. The number 10663 is
also
stamped
> above the name. There are several other series of numbers but
they do not
> have any obvious meaning.
> >
> > Please let me know what if anything you find out. We would
definitely
like
> to get this to a surviving member of the family if possible.
>


Moderator VK: Have you suggested to Tracy that she check closely to see whether the name might be Horvath? In that case, the victim would have been a Hungarian and this info might help her to trace survivors.

Ernest Kallmann [mailto:ernest.kallmann@wanadoo.fr] asked:

"While transcribing the 1813 Judenmatrikel for Ichenhausen, Bavaria (in
fact the list of family heads with their former names and with their
newly adopted given names and permanent family names) we stumbled over #
174 Joseph b. Simon adopting the name of Joseph ICHENHAUSER. For both of
us it is the first occurrence of a Jew adopting as his family name one
deriving directly >from the place where he lives.
1. Have similar facts occurred in other places and with the name of
that place ? If so, please give us the facts. --------

Yes, I found several cases in the list of naturalized Jews in the
Breslau departements of Silesia:
GUTTENTAGER in Guttentag
KEMPEZOWITZ in Kempezowitz
MUENSTERBERG in Muensterberg
MYSLOWITZER in Myslowitz
OELSNER in Oels
PLESSNER in Plesse
PROSKAUER in Proskau
WIENSKOWITZER in Wienskowitz
And, of course, many SCHLESINGER and DEUTSCH:
I suppose that there were different reasons for adopting a place name
before and after there was a legal obligation to take permanent family
names.

BEFORE, additional names indicating >from what region (e.g. "Fraenkel")
or town (e.g. "Oppenheim[er]") someone came, were adopted or, probably
more often, used by others, to distinguish him >from other men with the
same given and patronymic names. Such names were not necessarily
permanent: Moses Jacob >from Frankfurt would become, in Hamburg, Moses
Jacob Frankfurter. But when he moved on to Breslau, he would be called
Moses Jacob Hamburger. If he remained in Breslau until 1814, Hamburger
would become his permanent family name because he was used to it.

Why did some Jews after 1814 chose the name of the place in which they
lived? In some cases, it might have been just a lack of imagination.

For others, there might be another reason: I don't think that the name
DEUTSCH was ever adopted outside the German speaking countries. They
would have used the translated name ("GERMAN", "L'ALLEMAND" etc)

I suggest that a Jew taking the name DEUTSCH wanted to indicate that he
was assimilated and had to be considered as a German citizen (or,
rather, "subject") with equal rights. The Prussian "Stein-Hardenberg"
reforms which gave the Jews the right to be naturalized were decided
after the Napoleonic wars. I am just back >from Wroclaw (Breslau) where
in the Jewish cemetery one can see tombstones of that period for
volunteers, killed in action. It would be quite normal in this patriotic
and optimistic time to adopt the family name DEUTSCH - or, in a more
humble spirit, the name of the village in which one lived.

Hermann da Fonseca-Wollheim Tervuren, Belgium
<herman.da.fonseca-wollheim@pandora.be>

Ernest Kallmann [mailto:ernest.kallmann@wanadoo.fr] asked:

"While transcribing the 1813 Judenmatrikel for Ichenhausen, Bavaria (in
fact the list of family heads with their former names and with their
newly adopted given names and permanent family names) we stumbled over #
174 Joseph b. Simon adopting the name of Joseph ICHENHAUSER. For both of
us it is the first occurrence of a Jew adopting as his family name one
deriving directly >from the place where he lives.
1. Have similar facts occurred in other places and with the name of
that place ? If so, please give us the facts. --------

Yes, I found several cases in the list of naturalized Jews in the
Breslau departements of Silesia:
GUTTENTAGER in Guttentag
KEMPEZOWITZ in Kempezowitz
MUENSTERBERG in Muensterberg
MYSLOWITZER in Myslowitz
OELSNER in Oels
PLESSNER in Plesse
PROSKAUER in Proskau
WIENSKOWITZER in Wienskowitz
And, of course, many SCHLESINGER and DEUTSCH:
I suppose that there were different reasons for adopting a place name
before and after there was a legal obligation to take permanent family
names.

BEFORE, additional names indicating >from what region (e.g. "Fraenkel")
or town (e.g. "Oppenheim[er]") someone came, were adopted or, probably
more often, used by others, to distinguish him >from other men with the
same given and patronymic names. Such names were not necessarily
permanent: Moses Jacob >from Frankfurt would become, in Hamburg, Moses
Jacob Frankfurter. But when he moved on to Breslau, he would be called
Moses Jacob Hamburger. If he remained in Breslau until 1814, Hamburger
would become his permanent family name because he was used to it.

Why did some Jews after 1814 chose the name of the place in which they
lived? In some cases, it might have been just a lack of imagination.

For others, there might be another reason: I don't think that the name
DEUTSCH was ever adopted outside the German speaking countries. They
would have used the translated name ("GERMAN", "L'ALLEMAND" etc)

I suggest that a Jew taking the name DEUTSCH wanted to indicate that he
was assimilated and had to be considered as a German citizen (or,
rather, "subject") with equal rights. The Prussian "Stein-Hardenberg"
reforms which gave the Jews the right to be naturalized were decided
after the Napoleonic wars. I am just back >from Wroclaw (Breslau) where
in the Jewish cemetery one can see tombstones of that period for
volunteers, killed in action. It would be quite normal in this patriotic
and optimistic time to adopt the family name DEUTSCH - or, in a more
humble spirit, the name of the village in which one lived.

Hermann da Fonseca-Wollheim Tervuren, Belgium
<herman.da.fonseca-wollheim@pandora.be>

Can anyone tell me how to research a name
change, which occurred after the immigration
process was complete and when the person was
already in the US?

It is not known whether the naturalization
took place before or after the change of name.

Merle Kastner
Montreal, Canada
merlek@vif.com

Hello, I am researching my Ehrmann family in Bonfeld, Wurttemberg Germany.

As far as I know, they are not Jewish. However, I found a surname index at
my university library that says that the name EHRMANN is Jewish. I have
traced them back to Johann Albrecht Ehrmann, born about 1690 location
unknown, died 1 Jan 1762 in Bonfeld. He married a Maria Elis. Strieb and
their children were baptized in the Lutheran Church in Bonfeld. I have
found that there were many Jewish settlements in this part of Germany and
am wondering if it is remotely possible that he was a convert to
Lutheranism??
Am I off track?

Please reply to barrett_bettcher@hotmail.com

Andrew Barrett-Bettcher
Apple Valley, MN

Jerome;
My great grandparents belonged to a landsmanshaft for those who were fro
Wysokie Mazowiekie. I do not know the name, my grandmother cannot remember
it. Only my g. grandfather was >from Wysokie Maz. My g. grandmother was

from Zambrow. I find it odd that he joined, he left Wysokie Maz., as a

young child to live in London, England. I do not know how much he would
have remembered.

Linda Altman

On Tue, 03 September 2002, jselig3460@aol.com wrote:

Genners:
I have often pondered the question of whether or not all members of a
landsmanshaft come >from the shtetl,or vicinity, upon which the
organization is based. How do we then account for so many of the married
couples being members? I suspect that, often, membership is a practical
and social convenience.
Nevertheless, the intense emotional attachment to a former world must be
present. I can only put it to our membership, to recall the
conversations >from their childhood when keeping an ear open to the
conversation of their elders to bring enlightenment to this subject.
My research in this area provides only conjecture, not hard data.

Jerome Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
ALTMAN, >from Russia to NY City. TYRNAUER >from Hungary. BERGMAN >from
Warsaw & Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland to the UK, Israel and US.
CYBULA/CYBULKA/CYBULKO/CYBULKSI, Ostrow Maz., Siedlce,& Zambrow, Poland to
UK, and US. GOLDFINGIER, Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland. SINGER, Austria.
KRIEDBERG/KREIDBERG/KZAIBURG/KRITBERG/KRITZBERG >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.

Can anyone tell me how to research a name
change, which occurred after the immigration
process was complete and when the person was
already in the US?

It is not known whether the naturalization
took place before or after the change of name.

Merle Kastner
Montreal, Canada
merlek@vif.com

Hello, I am researching my Ehrmann family in Bonfeld, Wurttemberg Germany.

As far as I know, they are not Jewish. However, I found a surname index at
my university library that says that the name EHRMANN is Jewish. I have
traced them back to Johann Albrecht Ehrmann, born about 1690 location
unknown, died 1 Jan 1762 in Bonfeld. He married a Maria Elis. Strieb and
their children were baptized in the Lutheran Church in Bonfeld. I have
found that there were many Jewish settlements in this part of Germany and
am wondering if it is remotely possible that he was a convert to
Lutheranism??
Am I off track?

Please reply to barrett_bettcher@hotmail.com

Andrew Barrett-Bettcher
Apple Valley, MN

Jerome;
My great grandparents belonged to a landsmanshaft for those who were fro
Wysokie Mazowiekie. I do not know the name, my grandmother cannot remember
it. Only my g. grandfather was >from Wysokie Maz. My g. grandmother was

from Zambrow. I find it odd that he joined, he left Wysokie Maz., as a

young child to live in London, England. I do not know how much he would
have remembered.

Linda Altman

On Tue, 03 September 2002, jselig3460@aol.com wrote:

Genners:
I have often pondered the question of whether or not all members of a
landsmanshaft come >from the shtetl,or vicinity, upon which the
organization is based. How do we then account for so many of the married
couples being members? I suspect that, often, membership is a practical
and social convenience.
Nevertheless, the intense emotional attachment to a former world must be
present. I can only put it to our membership, to recall the
conversations >from their childhood when keeping an ear open to the
conversation of their elders to bring enlightenment to this subject.
My research in this area provides only conjecture, not hard data.

Jerome Seligsohn
NYC
SELIGSOHN and ELKIN of Mogilev

Linda Altman - Raleigh, NC
researching:
ALTMAN, >from Russia to NY City. TYRNAUER >from Hungary. BERGMAN >from
Warsaw & Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland to the UK, Israel and US.
CYBULA/CYBULKA/CYBULKO/CYBULKSI, Ostrow Maz., Siedlce,& Zambrow, Poland to
UK, and US. GOLDFINGIER, Sokolow-Podlaski, Poland. SINGER, Austria.
KRIEDBERG/KREIDBERG/KZAIBURG/KRITBERG/KRITZBERG >from Russia to US.
LIEBERMAN, Austria and Romania to US.

Henry Graupner wrote:

I am looking for any information about ancestors and siblings of Helene
ALEXANDER, born in Liegnitz, Silesia, Germany , on February 9, 1873.
She married my grandfather Ludwig GRAUPNER, of Beuthen, Silesia, Germany,
in Liegnitz in May 1897. Henry Graupner Guelph, Canada

My comment:
The Memorial Book for the victims of Theresienstadt lists
GRAEUPNER Richard (note the umlaut on the a!) born 12 Jan 1871
and GRAEUPNER Meta born 22 Sep 1891
who were deported >from Breslau (today's Wroclaw), then the capital of
Silesia on 11 Jun 1943 where people where collected also >from Liegnitz.

There are also 6 entries for the surname ALEXANDER for people deported

from Breslau in 1942: Elisabeth (birth year 1872), Helene (1869), Dr.

Karl (1866), Luise (1868), Marta (1874) and Max Felix (1863).

Let me know if you are interested in more details of any of these names,
with kind regards

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany

Henry Graupner wrote:

I am looking for any information about ancestors and siblings of Helene
ALEXANDER, born in Liegnitz, Silesia, Germany , on February 9, 1873.
She married my grandfather Ludwig GRAUPNER, of Beuthen, Silesia, Germany,
in Liegnitz in May 1897. Henry Graupner Guelph, Canada

My comment:
The Memorial Book for the victims of Theresienstadt lists
GRAEUPNER Richard (note the umlaut on the a!) born 12 Jan 1871
and GRAEUPNER Meta born 22 Sep 1891
who were deported >from Breslau (today's Wroclaw), then the capital of
Silesia on 11 Jun 1943 where people where collected also >from Liegnitz.

There are also 6 entries for the surname ALEXANDER for people deported

from Breslau in 1942: Elisabeth (birth year 1872), Helene (1869), Dr.

Karl (1866), Luise (1868), Marta (1874) and Max Felix (1863).

Let me know if you are interested in more details of any of these names,
with kind regards

Fritz Neubauer, North Germany

I recently made a first time visit to the GerSig Archives, and found both
a message I'd sent last year requesting information, and one reply to that
querey. However, the primary answer I needed did not make it into the
archives. So, the information is at best only partial, and should be, if
not corrected, then augmented.

The question was regarding the location of two German Seaside Resorts,
dating back to the 1920s; Wyk and Arendsee. The information that came back
regarding Wyk seemed correct. However, my main search was for Arendsee.

Currently their are two Arendsees on the map, but neither of them on the
ocean, although one is on a lake. Therein lies the confusion.

The answer I needed came >from Yvonne Adler, who explained that Arendsee,
the seaside resort has had its name changed. Unfortunately, her reply did
not make it into the archives. Yet, this information is very important and
needs to be made known to other researchers.

Here's Yvonne's reply:
"...A fellow GerSiger was in the identicle position you have found
yourself:
postcards >from sea resorts on the North Sea with unknown names stamped
on the frontice piece. "Arendsee" is one of the names I checked out for
her. Renamed "KUEHLINGSBORN" in the 1930's, it can be found at "Google,"
(with and without the umlaut). Not only does it still exist, the summer
hotel-life which our grandparents enjoyed is truly enviable.
Yvonne Adler, Los Angeles"

I want to thank John Lowens, a GerSig Moderator, who suggested I send
this, since the archives cannot be changed. Regards,

Pete Vanlaw Studio City, CA

I recently made a first time visit to the GerSig Archives, and found both
a message I'd sent last year requesting information, and one reply to that
querey. However, the primary answer I needed did not make it into the
archives. So, the information is at best only partial, and should be, if
not corrected, then augmented.

The question was regarding the location of two German Seaside Resorts,
dating back to the 1920s; Wyk and Arendsee. The information that came back
regarding Wyk seemed correct. However, my main search was for Arendsee.

Currently their are two Arendsees on the map, but neither of them on the
ocean, although one is on a lake. Therein lies the confusion.

The answer I needed came >from Yvonne Adler, who explained that Arendsee,
the seaside resort has had its name changed. Unfortunately, her reply did
not make it into the archives. Yet, this information is very important and
needs to be made known to other researchers.

Here's Yvonne's reply:
"...A fellow GerSiger was in the identicle position you have found
yourself:
postcards >from sea resorts on the North Sea with unknown names stamped
on the frontice piece. "Arendsee" is one of the names I checked out for
her. Renamed "KUEHLINGSBORN" in the 1930's, it can be found at "Google,"
(with and without the umlaut). Not only does it still exist, the summer
hotel-life which our grandparents enjoyed is truly enviable.
Yvonne Adler, Los Angeles"

I want to thank John Lowens, a GerSig Moderator, who suggested I send
this, since the archives cannot be changed. Regards,

Pete Vanlaw Studio City, CA

I am seeking information on Otto HIRSCH and his family of Frankfurt am
Main, and his descendants. Otto Hirsch's office was in
Neue Mainzerstrasse Frankfurt in the early 1930s. His home was in
Wohlerstrasse. He was a banker, and art collector, who died in April
1935. Can anyone tell me more about him, and his family, or put me in
touch with any relatives? Many thanks

Anne Webber London, England <annewebber@compuserve.com>

I am seeking information on Otto HIRSCH and his family of Frankfurt am
Main, and his descendants. Otto Hirsch's office was in
Neue Mainzerstrasse Frankfurt in the early 1930s. His home was in
Wohlerstrasse. He was a banker, and art collector, who died in April
1935. Can anyone tell me more about him, and his family, or put me in
touch with any relatives? Many thanks

Anne Webber London, England <annewebber@compuserve.com>

Genners,

Earlier today I posted a message concerning my gf's 1906 arrival at Ellis
Island and subsequent meeting with a possible uncle, Michel GORDON of
East Broadway in Manhattan. This is my first encounter with the name in
conjunction with my family.

I inherited my gm's very unorganized personal phone book, which appears to
have been put together in the late 1930's-40's. It contains 3 references
to GORDON's.One was a J. GORDON on West 83rd St. in Manhattan. The other
two, without initials, are both in Brooklyn; one on 21st. Ave., another on
85th St. If any of these ring a bell, please let me know.

I haven't checked yet, but I suspect these may not be found in the 1930
census and I think they may be too late for city directories. Phone
directories may be an option when I have the chance.

Please respond privately.

Ty Henken
Centennial, Colo.
Henken9@aol.com

Genners,

Earlier today I posted a message concerning my gf's 1906 arrival at Ellis
Island and subsequent meeting with a possible uncle, Michel GORDON of
East Broadway in Manhattan. This is my first encounter with the name in
conjunction with my family.

I inherited my gm's very unorganized personal phone book, which appears to
have been put together in the late 1930's-40's. It contains 3 references
to GORDON's.One was a J. GORDON on West 83rd St. in Manhattan. The other
two, without initials, are both in Brooklyn; one on 21st. Ave., another on
85th St. If any of these ring a bell, please let me know.

I haven't checked yet, but I suspect these may not be found in the 1930
census and I think they may be too late for city directories. Phone
directories may be an option when I have the chance.

Please respond privately.

Ty Henken
Centennial, Colo.
Henken9@aol.com

Ernest:

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Greater Philadelphia has a
listing of addresses and phone numbers for all Philadelphia area
Jewish cemeteries. Go to the Society home page at
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsp/ and click on "Jewish Cemeteries."
Just scroll down the Cemeteries of Southeastern PA and you will
find Montefiore. Also listed are cemeteries in Southern New
Jersey and cemeteries that are inactive or defunct.

A very happy and healthy New Year to all,
Mark Halpern
Jewish Genealogy Society of Greater Philadelphia

Ernest:

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Greater Philadelphia has a
listing of addresses and phone numbers for all Philadelphia area
Jewish cemeteries. Go to the Society home page at
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsp/ and click on "Jewish Cemeteries."
Just scroll down the Cemeteries of Southeastern PA and you will
find Montefiore. Also listed are cemeteries in Southern New
Jersey and cemeteries that are inactive or defunct.

A very happy and healthy New Year to all,
Mark Halpern
Jewish Genealogy Society of Greater Philadelphia