Date   

Assistance with Ellis Island, Thank You #general

ourabey@...
 

So many of you have written wonderful suggestions for tracking down this
"mystery uncle." Please accept my thanks for giving the time and care to
help me out.

I want to fill you in with the status:

I do indeed have his naturalization papers, the Declaration of Intention
and the Petition, etc. It is >from these that I have obtained the
obviously inaccurate information and it appears that just about
everything there is inaccurate except for place of birth. Even year of
birth disagrees with his gravestone. My research hows that there was no
Etruria ship at Ellis Island on the date he provides and also it appears
that Etruria sailed >from Liverpool and not Hamburg as the papers state.
His gravestone shows his name as Eliezer. One of his brothers arrived
the following year, 1906, and his Naturalization papers state he sailed
from Liverpool to Phila on the Caroliene so perhaps I will have more luck
tracking him. I have the papers for the entire family, except for the
only female sibling. But I have the manifest for the mother and 5 of the
7 siblings. They listed their surname as Cohn but I do feel that a
relative already here told them to travel under that name. I am hoping
that the two siblings who arrived earlier came under their original name.

Several people suggested that an Eliezer could have traveled under a
nickname; however, another sibling had the name of Leib. Perhaps the
following list will give you a flavor of the way their names were given
and changed: Chone Feivel (named for his grandmother,Anna Fanny), Israel
became Isadore; Ruben became Raymond; Donne became Evelyn; Leib became
Louis. The current "mystery man" Eliezer became Sam Ellis (and a nephew
named for him is Elliott, so the name Eliezer was meaningful to the
family In fact he is believed to have been Anna Fanny's husband).The
brother who went to Philly was called Carl in English. The
naturalization papers for Sam Ellis and for Carl state those as their
names.

The mother of this brood arrived a widow and >from gravestones of her sons
I see her husband's name was Abba Yitchak, but she was listed in
directories for Glens Falls as Esther Cohen, widow of Morris. Is the
name Morris is any way related to the name Abba Yitchak?

On second thought, even the place of birth is not accurate. The family
probably did come >from the area of Vilkomir as they list on their papers;
however these were very poor people, the father worked on the Baron's
land when he did work and they were probably not >from a city. In fact I
was told the name of the shtetl was Prude or Pude or Bootie or Broody but
I have not identified the shtetl either.

*But* I am not giving up!
again, suggestions are so very welcome.

Marcia Cohan Silberfarb
researching COHEN,KAPLAN, BERNSTEIN >from Vilkomir, Lithuania and Glens
Falls, NY


Kishinev story #general

Lilli Sprintz <spri0037@...>
 

This is a research story. Since people have been discussing Kishinev, I
thought it was time to share a story that happened in the last few
weeks...a success.

I have been researching my mother's part of my family for three years.
My grandmother, >from Poland, was relatively easier because of all the
work on the Jewish Records Indexing >from Poland. In addition, I knew my
grandmother and lived with her...she moved in with my immediate family
when I was young. Knew all her siblings well.

Her husband, my mother's father was harder. He died when my mother was
five. I got stories about Kishinev and their fleeing Romania soon after
I started the research. I tried relatives, National Archives and doing
surname index searches at Family History Center. Confusing. His
parents had changed their last name >from Herschenhorn to Oren when they
applied for citizenship. I found many Herschenhorns on index search,
but couldn't pin down any direct relatives (my grandfather, his brother
or his parents) in the indexes.

When the Ellis Island database opened up, I excitedly started searching
again. Wonderfully found many Herschenhorns and now know where they all
settled. But still couldn't find my grandfather and his immediate
family. Gave up.

Two weeks ago, in preperation for going out east to meet some of the
Herschenhorns, I thought, "maybe they came here with the family they had
lived with in Kishinev". If I found them, perhaps I would find my
grandfather's family on the same ship.

Bingo. But what I found surprised me. My grandfather's parents were
*not* there. *But*, my grandfather's mother's sister, one of the people
they had lived with, was. And, the two boys, my grandfather and his
brother, came in with her. It looked superficially like they were
listed as her two sons. Apparently, >from information on the passenger
list which showed who they were coming to meet in the U.S., my
grandfather's parents had come first. The boys and their mother's
sister came later. Whoopee!

That's it!

Lilli Sprintz


Re: Seeking information - Monticello NY 1946 #general

froggy <painpals@...>
 

These links might be of help. If not, please feel free to email me
privately and I will be more then happy to ask around and see what info
I can dig up. It was before my time but others here might remember the
names.

http://www.sullivancountyhistory.org/

http://www.village.monticello.ny.us/history/

http://www.village.monticello.ny.us/history/pics/

-jessi-ann Rosenbaum
Monticello, New York, USA
Researching: ROSENBAUM,JACOBS, HERMAN, HASS/HAAS, GARFEIN,GETTENBERG,
LEIBLER,ALTMAN, KREBS, FINGERHOOD/FINGERHUT (Austria to NY USA)

----- Original Message -----
From: Iris Folkson <ifolkson@nyc.rr.com>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Seeking information - Monticello NY 1946

On the main street of Monticello, New York, there was an antique shop.

from interviewing relatives, there is a recollection that the owner
was related to the GLICK's originally >from Starokonstantinov (Old
Constantine), Ukraine. His mother's given name was probably Hendel
(Annie). Hendel was affiliated with the fur manufacturer GOTTESMAN &
GLICK. Does anyone remember the antique shop? If you do, do you
recall the name of the owner?

Iris Folkson - Douglaston, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Assistance with Ellis Island, Thank You #general

ourabey@...
 

So many of you have written wonderful suggestions for tracking down this
"mystery uncle." Please accept my thanks for giving the time and care to
help me out.

I want to fill you in with the status:

I do indeed have his naturalization papers, the Declaration of Intention
and the Petition, etc. It is >from these that I have obtained the
obviously inaccurate information and it appears that just about
everything there is inaccurate except for place of birth. Even year of
birth disagrees with his gravestone. My research hows that there was no
Etruria ship at Ellis Island on the date he provides and also it appears
that Etruria sailed >from Liverpool and not Hamburg as the papers state.
His gravestone shows his name as Eliezer. One of his brothers arrived
the following year, 1906, and his Naturalization papers state he sailed
from Liverpool to Phila on the Caroliene so perhaps I will have more luck
tracking him. I have the papers for the entire family, except for the
only female sibling. But I have the manifest for the mother and 5 of the
7 siblings. They listed their surname as Cohn but I do feel that a
relative already here told them to travel under that name. I am hoping
that the two siblings who arrived earlier came under their original name.

Several people suggested that an Eliezer could have traveled under a
nickname; however, another sibling had the name of Leib. Perhaps the
following list will give you a flavor of the way their names were given
and changed: Chone Feivel (named for his grandmother,Anna Fanny), Israel
became Isadore; Ruben became Raymond; Donne became Evelyn; Leib became
Louis. The current "mystery man" Eliezer became Sam Ellis (and a nephew
named for him is Elliott, so the name Eliezer was meaningful to the
family In fact he is believed to have been Anna Fanny's husband).The
brother who went to Philly was called Carl in English. The
naturalization papers for Sam Ellis and for Carl state those as their
names.

The mother of this brood arrived a widow and >from gravestones of her sons
I see her husband's name was Abba Yitchak, but she was listed in
directories for Glens Falls as Esther Cohen, widow of Morris. Is the
name Morris is any way related to the name Abba Yitchak?

On second thought, even the place of birth is not accurate. The family
probably did come >from the area of Vilkomir as they list on their papers;
however these were very poor people, the father worked on the Baron's
land when he did work and they were probably not >from a city. In fact I
was told the name of the shtetl was Prude or Pude or Bootie or Broody but
I have not identified the shtetl either.

*But* I am not giving up!
again, suggestions are so very welcome.

Marcia Cohan Silberfarb
researching COHEN,KAPLAN, BERNSTEIN >from Vilkomir, Lithuania and Glens
Falls, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kishinev story #general

Lilli Sprintz <spri0037@...>
 

This is a research story. Since people have been discussing Kishinev, I
thought it was time to share a story that happened in the last few
weeks...a success.

I have been researching my mother's part of my family for three years.
My grandmother, >from Poland, was relatively easier because of all the
work on the Jewish Records Indexing >from Poland. In addition, I knew my
grandmother and lived with her...she moved in with my immediate family
when I was young. Knew all her siblings well.

Her husband, my mother's father was harder. He died when my mother was
five. I got stories about Kishinev and their fleeing Romania soon after
I started the research. I tried relatives, National Archives and doing
surname index searches at Family History Center. Confusing. His
parents had changed their last name >from Herschenhorn to Oren when they
applied for citizenship. I found many Herschenhorns on index search,
but couldn't pin down any direct relatives (my grandfather, his brother
or his parents) in the indexes.

When the Ellis Island database opened up, I excitedly started searching
again. Wonderfully found many Herschenhorns and now know where they all
settled. But still couldn't find my grandfather and his immediate
family. Gave up.

Two weeks ago, in preperation for going out east to meet some of the
Herschenhorns, I thought, "maybe they came here with the family they had
lived with in Kishinev". If I found them, perhaps I would find my
grandfather's family on the same ship.

Bingo. But what I found surprised me. My grandfather's parents were
*not* there. *But*, my grandfather's mother's sister, one of the people
they had lived with, was. And, the two boys, my grandfather and his
brother, came in with her. It looked superficially like they were
listed as her two sons. Apparently, >from information on the passenger
list which showed who they were coming to meet in the U.S., my
grandfather's parents had come first. The boys and their mother's
sister came later. Whoopee!

That's it!

Lilli Sprintz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Seeking information - Monticello NY 1946 #general

froggy <painpals@...>
 

These links might be of help. If not, please feel free to email me
privately and I will be more then happy to ask around and see what info
I can dig up. It was before my time but others here might remember the
names.

http://www.sullivancountyhistory.org/

http://www.village.monticello.ny.us/history/

http://www.village.monticello.ny.us/history/pics/

-jessi-ann Rosenbaum
Monticello, New York, USA
Researching: ROSENBAUM,JACOBS, HERMAN, HASS/HAAS, GARFEIN,GETTENBERG,
LEIBLER,ALTMAN, KREBS, FINGERHOOD/FINGERHUT (Austria to NY USA)

----- Original Message -----
From: Iris Folkson <ifolkson@nyc.rr.com>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Seeking information - Monticello NY 1946

On the main street of Monticello, New York, there was an antique shop.

from interviewing relatives, there is a recollection that the owner
was related to the GLICK's originally >from Starokonstantinov (Old
Constantine), Ukraine. His mother's given name was probably Hendel
(Annie). Hendel was affiliated with the fur manufacturer GOTTESMAN &
GLICK. Does anyone remember the antique shop? If you do, do you
recall the name of the owner?

Iris Folkson - Douglaston, New York


Re: Nocher/Nochem ...last wrod? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/1/2002 3:55:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
housemom@att.net writes:

<< a genner sent me a message that Abraham's grandson was named Nocher, so
it appears that my Uncle Irving may well have been Nocher >>

==That's a damgerous authority, "a genner sent me a message." We have to be
alert to the fact that not all genners are experts. Some are well-informed,
some mean well, some are foolish, some are ill-informed, some occasionally
play jokes (not, I hope, with malicious intent). Before we just accept "a
message" >from "a genner"--and certainly before we post it online as "the
truth"--we should know something about the trustworthiness of the person
whose message we quote (and, just for the record, I've posted my own measure
of erroneous statements--and later regretted them and sometimes corrected
them).

I don't know who this Abraham is or how he's related to Housemom or her
uncle Irving-Nocher. If that is who was intended, it most certainly was not
the Patriarch Abraham, as a cursory reading of the appropriate chapters in
the Bible makes clear. There is no person named Nocher in the Hebrew Bible
and a search of ten different versions of Christian translations (including
the Vulgate) fails to bring up anyone with that name.

Perhaps the genner who sent "a message" was thinking of Nachor? Nachor was
*father* of Terach. Terach was father of Abraham the Patriarch, so Nachor
rather than being the grandson was the grandfather to Abraham. Also, Abraham
had a younger brother also named Nachor. Nachor, Abraham's brother, did
indeed become a grandfather--to Rebecca, who became the bride of Abraham's
son Isaac, and she was the mother of Jacob.

Let's be careful before we teach, or citicize, or claim "the last wrod."

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


Was there a Vermont Ave in 1930 Brooklyn? #general

Marc Hodies <marcandsher@...>
 

Hi All,

My Dad finally looked at his birth certificate (1929) and it read 3021
Vermont Avenue in Brooklyn. Using the best maps I have, I see a Vermont
Street or a Vermont Pl but no Vermont Ave. My Dad was surprised since
his parents always told them he lived on Mermaid Ave in Coney Island.

Has anybody hard of a Vermont Ave in Brooklyn? Any chance that Mermaid
Ave was once a Vermont Ave?

Thanks,

Marc Hodies
Searching HOROWITZ and HODIES


Re: Assistance with EIDB #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Just to let you know if the ship came >from Hamburg
the FHL has the direct andindirect passenger manifests
from Hamburg. You can find the actualpage by using
their indexes on microfilm.

Diane Jacobs
New York


Re: "Berdianch"? again #general

NFatouros@...
 

Yesterday I replied too hastily to Burt Altman's inquiry asking about
"Berdiansh." I thought the town might be Berdichev.

Now that I've read Alexander Sharon's and Chaim Freedman's replies to Mr.
Altman, I see that I was wrong in suggesting that "Berdichev" was the town.
The name of the town Mssrs. Sharon and Freedman proposed "Berdyansk" is
phonetically a much better match, although geographically, since Mr. Altman
had also mentioned Korostyshev in that same inquiry, Berdichev seemed a
possiblity.Still I should have thought of "Berdyansk" and am cross with
myself that I didn't!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


Re: "modern cursive" Hebrew--German or Polish in origin? #general

rob.e <rob.e@...>
 

It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the same
characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same in
either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew alphabet
used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be interested in
finding out more about the origins of the script and if there are regional
variations.

Rob Ellis
rob_ellisnospam@yahoo.com


Re: Point of Depature Passenger Records #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Janice Goldman asked about departure passenger lists: "Do you know if
passenger departure records >from the following ports/ships/dates are
available and, if so, how they can be accessed?
* Havre, France/LaBretagne/1907
* Treiste/Laura/1908"

Janice, it would be advisable to have your ancestors travel through Hamburg.
The Germans kept good records, but Bremen records were lost in WWII (but
have been reconstructed >from NYC records somewhat). The only large body of
emigration records is >from Hamburg, although an occasional ship records
might exist >from other ports. I suggest searching for the port name and
topic 'Emigration and Immigration' at www.familysearch.com under the library
database-that is the web site for the Mormon library holdings.

The big advantage of the Hamburg records is that they usually give a town of
origin for people who travelled in the non-indexed years for NY immigration
lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


Sages of Galacia #general

Miriam Mason <ashrink@...>
 

I found a list of the "Sages of Galacia" and the names Hartman and Yugend
both appear on the list.

These are the surnames of both my paternal and maternal grandfathers.

Does any have any knowledge of this list and the sages?

There was rumor in my family that my great Grandfather was a rabbi..and
indeed he taught in a hebrew school when he came to this country..

I would appreciate any information.

Miriam Mason
Succasunna, New Jersey
ashrink@optonline.net


JONT #general

PolTexCW@...
 

My mother-in-law, in Poland, was in correspondence with an organization
regarding reparations for Holocaust survivors. She is rather elderly and has
lost their address. She can only remember that the name of the organization
was (apparently) an acronym "JONT", and that it might have been
headquartered in New York City. Any info would be appreciated. Please reply
off-list.

Thank you,

John Biskupski

MODERATOR NOTE: As the answer may be of general interest, please reply to
the list as well as privately to Mr Biskupski.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Nocher/Nochem ...last wrod? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/1/2002 3:55:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
housemom@att.net writes:

<< a genner sent me a message that Abraham's grandson was named Nocher, so
it appears that my Uncle Irving may well have been Nocher >>

==That's a damgerous authority, "a genner sent me a message." We have to be
alert to the fact that not all genners are experts. Some are well-informed,
some mean well, some are foolish, some are ill-informed, some occasionally
play jokes (not, I hope, with malicious intent). Before we just accept "a
message" >from "a genner"--and certainly before we post it online as "the
truth"--we should know something about the trustworthiness of the person
whose message we quote (and, just for the record, I've posted my own measure
of erroneous statements--and later regretted them and sometimes corrected
them).

I don't know who this Abraham is or how he's related to Housemom or her
uncle Irving-Nocher. If that is who was intended, it most certainly was not
the Patriarch Abraham, as a cursory reading of the appropriate chapters in
the Bible makes clear. There is no person named Nocher in the Hebrew Bible
and a search of ten different versions of Christian translations (including
the Vulgate) fails to bring up anyone with that name.

Perhaps the genner who sent "a message" was thinking of Nachor? Nachor was
*father* of Terach. Terach was father of Abraham the Patriarch, so Nachor
rather than being the grandson was the grandfather to Abraham. Also, Abraham
had a younger brother also named Nachor. Nachor, Abraham's brother, did
indeed become a grandfather--to Rebecca, who became the bride of Abraham's
son Isaac, and she was the mother of Jacob.

Let's be careful before we teach, or citicize, or claim "the last wrod."

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Was there a Vermont Ave in 1930 Brooklyn? #general

Marc Hodies <marcandsher@...>
 

Hi All,

My Dad finally looked at his birth certificate (1929) and it read 3021
Vermont Avenue in Brooklyn. Using the best maps I have, I see a Vermont
Street or a Vermont Pl but no Vermont Ave. My Dad was surprised since
his parents always told them he lived on Mermaid Ave in Coney Island.

Has anybody hard of a Vermont Ave in Brooklyn? Any chance that Mermaid
Ave was once a Vermont Ave?

Thanks,

Marc Hodies
Searching HOROWITZ and HODIES


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Assistance with EIDB #general

Diane Jacobs <kingart@...>
 

Just to let you know if the ship came >from Hamburg
the FHL has the direct andindirect passenger manifests
from Hamburg. You can find the actualpage by using
their indexes on microfilm.

Diane Jacobs
New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "Berdianch"? again #general

NFatouros@...
 

Yesterday I replied too hastily to Burt Altman's inquiry asking about
"Berdiansh." I thought the town might be Berdichev.

Now that I've read Alexander Sharon's and Chaim Freedman's replies to Mr.
Altman, I see that I was wrong in suggesting that "Berdichev" was the town.
The name of the town Mssrs. Sharon and Freedman proposed "Berdyansk" is
phonetically a much better match, although geographically, since Mr. Altman
had also mentioned Korostyshev in that same inquiry, Berdichev seemed a
possiblity.Still I should have thought of "Berdyansk" and am cross with
myself that I didn't!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "modern cursive" Hebrew--German or Polish in origin? #general

rob.e <rob.e@...>
 

It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the same
characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same in
either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew alphabet
used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be interested in
finding out more about the origins of the script and if there are regional
variations.

Rob Ellis
rob_ellisnospam@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Point of Depature Passenger Records #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Janice Goldman asked about departure passenger lists: "Do you know if
passenger departure records >from the following ports/ships/dates are
available and, if so, how they can be accessed?
* Havre, France/LaBretagne/1907
* Treiste/Laura/1908"

Janice, it would be advisable to have your ancestors travel through Hamburg.
The Germans kept good records, but Bremen records were lost in WWII (but
have been reconstructed >from NYC records somewhat). The only large body of
emigration records is >from Hamburg, although an occasional ship records
might exist >from other ports. I suggest searching for the port name and
topic 'Emigration and Immigration' at www.familysearch.com under the library
database-that is the web site for the Mormon library holdings.

The big advantage of the Hamburg records is that they usually give a town of
origin for people who travelled in the non-indexed years for NY immigration
lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY