In a message dated 9/1/2002 3:55:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
housemom@att.net writes:

<< a genner sent me a message that Abraham's grandson was named Nocher, so
it appears that my Uncle Irving may well have been Nocher >>

==That's a damgerous authority, "a genner sent me a message." We have to be
alert to the fact that not all genners are experts. Some are well-informed,
some mean well, some are foolish, some are ill-informed, some occasionally
play jokes (not, I hope, with malicious intent). Before we just accept "a
message" >from "a genner"--and certainly before we post it online as "the
truth"--we should know something about the trustworthiness of the person
whose message we quote (and, just for the record, I've posted my own measure
of erroneous statements--and later regretted them and sometimes corrected
them).

I don't know who this Abraham is or how he's related to Housemom or her
uncle Irving-Nocher. If that is who was intended, it most certainly was not
the Patriarch Abraham, as a cursory reading of the appropriate chapters in
the Bible makes clear. There is no person named Nocher in the Hebrew Bible
and a search of ten different versions of Christian translations (including
the Vulgate) fails to bring up anyone with that name.

Perhaps the genner who sent "a message" was thinking of Nachor? Nachor was
*father* of Terach. Terach was father of Abraham the Patriarch, so Nachor
rather than being the grandson was the grandfather to Abraham. Also, Abraham
had a younger brother also named Nachor. Nachor, Abraham's brother, did
indeed become a grandfather--to Rebecca, who became the bride of Abraham's
son Isaac, and she was the mother of Jacob.

Let's be careful before we teach, or citicize, or claim "the last wrod."

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

Hi All,

My Dad finally looked at his birth certificate (1929) and it read 3021
Vermont Avenue in Brooklyn. Using the best maps I have, I see a Vermont
Street or a Vermont Pl but no Vermont Ave. My Dad was surprised since
his parents always told them he lived on Mermaid Ave in Coney Island.

Has anybody hard of a Vermont Ave in Brooklyn? Any chance that Mermaid
Ave was once a Vermont Ave?

Thanks,

Marc Hodies
Searching HOROWITZ and HODIES

Just to let you know if the ship came >from Hamburg
the FHL has the direct andindirect passenger manifests

from Hamburg. You can find the actualpage by using

their indexes on microfilm.

Diane Jacobs
New York

Yesterday I replied too hastily to Burt Altman's inquiry asking about
"Berdiansh." I thought the town might be Berdichev.

Now that I've read Alexander Sharon's and Chaim Freedman's replies to Mr.
Altman, I see that I was wrong in suggesting that "Berdichev" was the town.
The name of the town Mssrs. Sharon and Freedman proposed "Berdyansk" is
phonetically a much better match, although geographically, since Mr. Altman
had also mentioned Korostyshev in that same inquiry, Berdichev seemed a
possiblity.Still I should have thought of "Berdyansk" and am cross with
myself that I didn't!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.

It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the same
characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same in
either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew alphabet
used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be interested in
finding out more about the origins of the script and if there are regional
variations.

Rob Ellis
rob_ellisnospam@yahoo.com

Janice Goldman asked about departure passenger lists: "Do you know if
passenger departure records >from the following ports/ships/dates are
available and, if so, how they can be accessed?
* Havre, France/LaBretagne/1907
* Treiste/Laura/1908"

Janice, it would be advisable to have your ancestors travel through Hamburg.
The Germans kept good records, but Bremen records were lost in WWII (but
have been reconstructed >from NYC records somewhat). The only large body of
emigration records is >from Hamburg, although an occasional ship records
might exist >from other ports. I suggest searching for the port name and
topic 'Emigration and Immigration' at www.familysearch.com under the library
database-that is the web site for the Mormon library holdings.

The big advantage of the Hamburg records is that they usually give a town of
origin for people who travelled in the non-indexed years for NY immigration
lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY

I found a list of the "Sages of Galacia" and the names Hartman and Yugend
both appear on the list.

These are the surnames of both my paternal and maternal grandfathers.

Does any have any knowledge of this list and the sages?

There was rumor in my family that my great Grandfather was a rabbi..and
indeed he taught in a hebrew school when he came to this country..

I would appreciate any information.

Miriam Mason
Succasunna, New Jersey
ashrink@optonline.net

My mother-in-law, in Poland, was in correspondence with an organization
regarding reparations for Holocaust survivors. She is rather elderly and has
lost their address. She can only remember that the name of the organization
was (apparently) an acronym "JONT", and that it might have been
headquartered in New York City. Any info would be appreciated. Please reply
off-list.

Thank you,

John Biskupski

MODERATOR NOTE: As the answer may be of general interest, please reply to
the list as well as privately to Mr Biskupski.

In a message dated 9/1/2002 3:55:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
housemom@att.net writes:

<< a genner sent me a message that Abraham's grandson was named Nocher, so
it appears that my Uncle Irving may well have been Nocher >>

==That's a damgerous authority, "a genner sent me a message." We have to be
alert to the fact that not all genners are experts. Some are well-informed,
some mean well, some are foolish, some are ill-informed, some occasionally
play jokes (not, I hope, with malicious intent). Before we just accept "a
message" >from "a genner"--and certainly before we post it online as "the
truth"--we should know something about the trustworthiness of the person
whose message we quote (and, just for the record, I've posted my own measure
of erroneous statements--and later regretted them and sometimes corrected
them).

I don't know who this Abraham is or how he's related to Housemom or her
uncle Irving-Nocher. If that is who was intended, it most certainly was not
the Patriarch Abraham, as a cursory reading of the appropriate chapters in
the Bible makes clear. There is no person named Nocher in the Hebrew Bible
and a search of ten different versions of Christian translations (including
the Vulgate) fails to bring up anyone with that name.

Perhaps the genner who sent "a message" was thinking of Nachor? Nachor was
*father* of Terach. Terach was father of Abraham the Patriarch, so Nachor
rather than being the grandson was the grandfather to Abraham. Also, Abraham
had a younger brother also named Nachor. Nachor, Abraham's brother, did
indeed become a grandfather--to Rebecca, who became the bride of Abraham's
son Isaac, and she was the mother of Jacob.

Let's be careful before we teach, or citicize, or claim "the last wrod."

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

Hi All,

My Dad finally looked at his birth certificate (1929) and it read 3021
Vermont Avenue in Brooklyn. Using the best maps I have, I see a Vermont
Street or a Vermont Pl but no Vermont Ave. My Dad was surprised since
his parents always told them he lived on Mermaid Ave in Coney Island.

Has anybody hard of a Vermont Ave in Brooklyn? Any chance that Mermaid
Ave was once a Vermont Ave?

Thanks,

Marc Hodies
Searching HOROWITZ and HODIES

Just to let you know if the ship came >from Hamburg
the FHL has the direct andindirect passenger manifests

from Hamburg. You can find the actualpage by using

their indexes on microfilm.

Diane Jacobs
New York

Yesterday I replied too hastily to Burt Altman's inquiry asking about
"Berdiansh." I thought the town might be Berdichev.

Now that I've read Alexander Sharon's and Chaim Freedman's replies to Mr.
Altman, I see that I was wrong in suggesting that "Berdichev" was the town.
The name of the town Mssrs. Sharon and Freedman proposed "Berdyansk" is
phonetically a much better match, although geographically, since Mr. Altman
had also mentioned Korostyshev in that same inquiry, Berdichev seemed a
possiblity.Still I should have thought of "Berdyansk" and am cross with
myself that I didn't!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev;ROTHSTEIN,
Kremenchug; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;
SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and
Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY, Ostryna.

It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the same
characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same in
either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew alphabet
used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be interested in
finding out more about the origins of the script and if there are regional
variations.

Rob Ellis
rob_ellisnospam@yahoo.com

Janice Goldman asked about departure passenger lists: "Do you know if
passenger departure records >from the following ports/ships/dates are
available and, if so, how they can be accessed?
* Havre, France/LaBretagne/1907
* Treiste/Laura/1908"

Janice, it would be advisable to have your ancestors travel through Hamburg.
The Germans kept good records, but Bremen records were lost in WWII (but
have been reconstructed >from NYC records somewhat). The only large body of
emigration records is >from Hamburg, although an occasional ship records
might exist >from other ports. I suggest searching for the port name and
topic 'Emigration and Immigration' at www.familysearch.com under the library
database-that is the web site for the Mormon library holdings.

The big advantage of the Hamburg records is that they usually give a town of
origin for people who travelled in the non-indexed years for NY immigration
lists.

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY

I found a list of the "Sages of Galacia" and the names Hartman and Yugend
both appear on the list.

These are the surnames of both my paternal and maternal grandfathers.

Does any have any knowledge of this list and the sages?

There was rumor in my family that my great Grandfather was a rabbi..and
indeed he taught in a hebrew school when he came to this country..

I would appreciate any information.

Miriam Mason
Succasunna, New Jersey
ashrink@optonline.net

My mother-in-law, in Poland, was in correspondence with an organization
regarding reparations for Holocaust survivors. She is rather elderly and has
lost their address. She can only remember that the name of the organization
was (apparently) an acronym "JONT", and that it might have been
headquartered in New York City. Any info would be appreciated. Please reply
off-list.

Thank you,

John Biskupski

MODERATOR NOTE: As the answer may be of general interest, please reply to
the list as well as privately to Mr Biskupski.

Dear fellow Gennners,

Faige, Daniel, Sholom and I just wanted to wish you and your families a
Happy and Healthy New Year. And may we finally be able to see a lasting
peace in Israel (and all over).

All the best for the New Year.

Sincerely,

Michael Trapunsky
Queens, NY
trapunsky@earthlink.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Thank you for your wishes. We encourage those of you who
wish to send New Year's greetings to JewishGen and its readers to do so by
posting them to the JewishGen Wall of Honor in honor of JewishGen or anyone
who has helped you in your research in the past year at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors.ihtml>, where you will be
supporting JewishGen in its efforts to bring all the resources we value to
Jewish genealogy researchers around the world. You can view the Wall of
Honor at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors0.html>.

Dear fellow Gennners,

Faige, Daniel, Sholom and I just wanted to wish you and your families a
Happy and Healthy New Year. And may we finally be able to see a lasting
peace in Israel (and all over).

All the best for the New Year.

Sincerely,

Michael Trapunsky
Queens, NY
trapunsky@earthlink.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Thank you for your wishes. We encourage those of you who
wish to send New Year's greetings to JewishGen and its readers to do so by
posting them to the JewishGen Wall of Honor in honor of JewishGen or anyone
who has helped you in your research in the past year at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors.ihtml>, where you will be
supporting JewishGen in its efforts to bring all the resources we value to
Jewish genealogy researchers around the world. You can view the Wall of
Honor at <http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Honors0.html>.

I am trying to reach JewishGen researcher Daniel Padolsky. He has a BECK
family tree posted in the JewishGen Family Database. My email to him
bounced.

Vicki Ina Friedman
Waleska, GA, USA
dreambuilder@alltel.net

MODERATOR NOTE: Please report bounced mail to JGFF researchers to the
JewishGen LostNFound Desk, <LostNFound@lyris.jewishgen.org>, as well.
Include the JGFF researcher number in your report.

Mazal tov to my putative sixth cousin on her new appointment.

Israel Pickholtz