Date   

Re: "modern cursive" Hebrew--German or Polish in origin? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/2/2002 2:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rob.e@tilenni.com.au writes:

<< It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the
same characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same
in either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew
alphabet used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be
interested in finding out more about the origins of the script and if there
are regional variations. >>

==Printed fonts and engraved faces ten to remain unchanged for long periods
of time, not so cursive faces which are simplifications to speed writing.
Every person'r cursive is individual--and probably changes with the time of
day and the digestive procees. Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Judaica
each discuss some 30 differing cursive faces/families.

"Standard" modern Israeli cursive is based, of course, on recent Hebrew
cursive faces. (that Hebrew letters were used for writing German, Yiddish,
Ladino, Italian and Greek made them no less Hebrewand that these letter were
occasionally used for writing Yiddish is irrelevant).

Standard modern Israeli cursive (i.e. that which is taught in schools and
featured in type and computer fonts), is derived >from Ashkenazi *Hebrew*
cursives of the Hebrew alphabet as used at a certain time in a certain
place--apparently Germany at the end of the 19th century according to the
cited encyclopedias. Since offset printing was already well-developed at
that period, I assume that in sample books for children, formal cursive
styles in Eastern Europe differed very little if any >from the German style.

However, it would be interesting to know which was the specific model for
today's standard Israeli cursive. Anyone know?

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


Kosow Lacki Indices Now On-Line #general

Susan Stone <stonegs@...>
 

Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is pleased to announce that the 1863-1899
Birth, Marriage and Death Indices for Kosow Lacki, Poland have been added to
the online searchable database. This project is part of the JRI-Poland /
Polish State Archives initiative for the indexing of Jewish vital records of
towns in the Siedlce branch.

Kosow Lacki is located 54 miles ENE of Warsaw and 56 miles SW of Bialystok.
Its geographical coordinates are 52'36"/22'09".

I would like to thank members of the JRI-Poland team, Stanley Diamond, Judy
Baston, Michael Tobias, and Sheila Salo as well as Town Leader Paul Weiss
for his leadership of the Kosow Lacki project, and the many researchers who
generously contributed to the indexing of these records.

Visit the JRI-Poland site at http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/jriplweb.htm to
search for your family names in the database.

Susan Stone
Siedlce Archive Coordinator
Polish State Archives Project


instructions and status of orders from PSA #general

Marty Meyers <meyers01@...>
 

Can anyone update us on the issue regarding orders of vital records
from PSA in Poland? There was a problem with currency charges that needed
to be resolved, I believe.

Is there a new procedure to order vital records? Should we use the old
procedure?
Should we continue to wait?

Shana Tova,

Marty Meyers <meyers01@comcast.net>


Did your ancestors serve in the military in Europe? #general

Bkhait@...
 

If your ancestors served in the Austrian, Polish, or Russian military
(although I wouldn't exclude any other service), I'd like to hear >from you
for possible inclusion of your story and your reserach methodologies in an
article I'm writiing for Heritage Quest. Please respond privately to
bkhait@aol.com.

L'shana Tovah!
Barbara Khait
bkhait@aol.com
Somerset, NJ


Israel ROGENBLAT or L(ouis) ISRAEL #general

philafrum
 

Genners,

According to the manifest >from the SS Germanic arriving in NYC on August 15,
1904, p. 170, lines 15 & 16, my great grendfather 'Mendel SHTEIN" (actually
Pinchas Mendelstein) was headed to a Mr. L(ouis) Israel at 377 E.. 101
St.with an "Israel ROGENBLAT". According to the manifest my great
grandfather was a cousin to this individual, while Mr. Rogenblat was a
brother-in-law. Does anybody have an idea who either Israel ROGENBLAT or
L(ouis) ISRAEL was?

Please respond to me privately. Thanks. Shanah tovah.

Evan Fishman
ebf2001@comcast.net
Cherry Hill, NJ

Searching:
MANDELSTEIN/MENDELSTEIN/MENDELSOHN (Starokonstantinov), ADELMAN/EDELMAN
(Krasilov), KALMANOWITZ, LISNITZER (Kamenets Podolskiy, Zaslaw), FISHMAN
(Terespol), UDIN, BURSTEIN, WINARSKY (Kiev), PRESSEISEN


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "modern cursive" Hebrew--German or Polish in origin? #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/2/2002 2:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rob.e@tilenni.com.au writes:

<< It was my understanding that the modern hebrew script is based on the
same characters used in the written yiddish language which would be the same
in either Poland or Germany. The characters are of course the Hebrew
alphabet used in the written yiddish language. I would certainly be
interested in finding out more about the origins of the script and if there
are regional variations. >>

==Printed fonts and engraved faces ten to remain unchanged for long periods
of time, not so cursive faces which are simplifications to speed writing.
Every person'r cursive is individual--and probably changes with the time of
day and the digestive procees. Jewish Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Judaica
each discuss some 30 differing cursive faces/families.

"Standard" modern Israeli cursive is based, of course, on recent Hebrew
cursive faces. (that Hebrew letters were used for writing German, Yiddish,
Ladino, Italian and Greek made them no less Hebrewand that these letter were
occasionally used for writing Yiddish is irrelevant).

Standard modern Israeli cursive (i.e. that which is taught in schools and
featured in type and computer fonts), is derived >from Ashkenazi *Hebrew*
cursives of the Hebrew alphabet as used at a certain time in a certain
place--apparently Germany at the end of the 19th century according to the
cited encyclopedias. Since offset printing was already well-developed at
that period, I assume that in sample books for children, formal cursive
styles in Eastern Europe differed very little if any >from the German style.

However, it would be interesting to know which was the specific model for
today's standard Israeli cursive. Anyone know?

Michael Bernet, New York <mBernet@aol.com>

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kosow Lacki Indices Now On-Line #general

Susan Stone <stonegs@...>
 

Jewish Records Indexing - Poland is pleased to announce that the 1863-1899
Birth, Marriage and Death Indices for Kosow Lacki, Poland have been added to
the online searchable database. This project is part of the JRI-Poland /
Polish State Archives initiative for the indexing of Jewish vital records of
towns in the Siedlce branch.

Kosow Lacki is located 54 miles ENE of Warsaw and 56 miles SW of Bialystok.
Its geographical coordinates are 52'36"/22'09".

I would like to thank members of the JRI-Poland team, Stanley Diamond, Judy
Baston, Michael Tobias, and Sheila Salo as well as Town Leader Paul Weiss
for his leadership of the Kosow Lacki project, and the many researchers who
generously contributed to the indexing of these records.

Visit the JRI-Poland site at http://www.jewishgen.org/JRI-PL/jriplweb.htm to
search for your family names in the database.

Susan Stone
Siedlce Archive Coordinator
Polish State Archives Project


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen instructions and status of orders from PSA #general

Marty Meyers <meyers01@...>
 

Can anyone update us on the issue regarding orders of vital records
from PSA in Poland? There was a problem with currency charges that needed
to be resolved, I believe.

Is there a new procedure to order vital records? Should we use the old
procedure?
Should we continue to wait?

Shana Tova,

Marty Meyers <meyers01@comcast.net>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Did your ancestors serve in the military in Europe? #general

Bkhait@...
 

If your ancestors served in the Austrian, Polish, or Russian military
(although I wouldn't exclude any other service), I'd like to hear >from you
for possible inclusion of your story and your reserach methodologies in an
article I'm writiing for Heritage Quest. Please respond privately to
bkhait@aol.com.

L'shana Tovah!
Barbara Khait
bkhait@aol.com
Somerset, NJ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Israel ROGENBLAT or L(ouis) ISRAEL #general

philafrum
 

Genners,

According to the manifest >from the SS Germanic arriving in NYC on August 15,
1904, p. 170, lines 15 & 16, my great grendfather 'Mendel SHTEIN" (actually
Pinchas Mendelstein) was headed to a Mr. L(ouis) Israel at 377 E.. 101
St.with an "Israel ROGENBLAT". According to the manifest my great
grandfather was a cousin to this individual, while Mr. Rogenblat was a
brother-in-law. Does anybody have an idea who either Israel ROGENBLAT or
L(ouis) ISRAEL was?

Please respond to me privately. Thanks. Shanah tovah.

Evan Fishman
ebf2001@comcast.net
Cherry Hill, NJ

Searching:
MANDELSTEIN/MENDELSTEIN/MENDELSOHN (Starokonstantinov), ADELMAN/EDELMAN
(Krasilov), KALMANOWITZ, LISNITZER (Kamenets Podolskiy, Zaslaw), FISHMAN
(Terespol), UDIN, BURSTEIN, WINARSKY (Kiev), PRESSEISEN


KUSCHELEWITZ in South Africa #general

Leon Menzer <mincer@...>
 

I am searching for the descendents of Kuschelewitz, perhaps Shmulek
Kuschelewitz, who emigrated to South Africa >from Prussia or Lithuania
before 1938.

--
Leon Menzer
Dallas, Texas
mailto: mincer@swbell.net


Machzike Hadath Anshei Zborow - how do I locate temple records? #general

Michael Kranish <mkranish@...>
 

Dear Group,
I am trying to determine if there are any records, newsletters, etc. >from a
now-defunct Manhattan temple called Machzike Hadath Anshei Zborow. This is
according to the Works Progress Administration (WPA) Federal Writers Project
Survey of State and Local Historical Records (1939)
Church Records Jewish - Synagogue. It doesn't say what year the temple
organized and I haven't seen the actual card entry - this information is
gleaned >from the New York Jewish Genealogical Society database. (found at:
http://home.att.net/~JGSNYCem/synagogues.htm
I'm guessing the temple was organized around the turn of the last century
and probably last for 15 or 20 years. Was it absorbed by another larger
temple? Do records exist anywhere? Or at least the names of incorporators or
directors?
please respond by email even if you post.
Thank you
mkranish@hotmail.com
researching Meyer KRONISH/Kronish of Zborow


Re: JONT #general

Susan&David
 

This is probably the Joint Distribution Committee. The JDC still exists at
<http://www.jdc.org>

David Rosen
Boston, MA

John Biskupski wrote:

My mother-in-law, in Poland, was in correspondence with an organization
regarding reparations for Holocaust survivors. She is rather elderly and
has lost their address. She can only remember that the name of the
organization was (apparently) an acronym "JONT", and that it might have
been headquartered in New York City. Any info would be appreciated.


Re: JONT #general

Dr.Katalin Got
 

Dear John,I think you are looking for the organisation JOINT.There indeed
is and has been such an organisation.We lived in Budapest after the war and
can thank the Joint to be able to exist and to go through University years.
They also paid the expenses of our immigration to Australia and that of my
mother and aunt.There are numberless Jews grateful to the JOINT all around
the World.Their headquarter is in New York City. I do not know the address
but I think Genners who live there might give you exact information.
Best regards to your aunt in Poland.
Katalin Got
Adelaide
Australia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen KUSCHELEWITZ in South Africa #general

Leon Menzer <mincer@...>
 

I am searching for the descendents of Kuschelewitz, perhaps Shmulek
Kuschelewitz, who emigrated to South Africa >from Prussia or Lithuania
before 1938.

--
Leon Menzer
Dallas, Texas
mailto: mincer@swbell.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Machzike Hadath Anshei Zborow - how do I locate temple records? #general

Michael Kranish <mkranish@...>
 

Dear Group,
I am trying to determine if there are any records, newsletters, etc. >from a
now-defunct Manhattan temple called Machzike Hadath Anshei Zborow. This is
according to the Works Progress Administration (WPA) Federal Writers Project
Survey of State and Local Historical Records (1939)
Church Records Jewish - Synagogue. It doesn't say what year the temple
organized and I haven't seen the actual card entry - this information is
gleaned >from the New York Jewish Genealogical Society database. (found at:
http://home.att.net/~JGSNYCem/synagogues.htm
I'm guessing the temple was organized around the turn of the last century
and probably last for 15 or 20 years. Was it absorbed by another larger
temple? Do records exist anywhere? Or at least the names of incorporators or
directors?
please respond by email even if you post.
Thank you
mkranish@hotmail.com
researching Meyer KRONISH/Kronish of Zborow


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: JONT #general

Susan&David
 

This is probably the Joint Distribution Committee. The JDC still exists at
<http://www.jdc.org>

David Rosen
Boston, MA

John Biskupski wrote:

My mother-in-law, in Poland, was in correspondence with an organization
regarding reparations for Holocaust survivors. She is rather elderly and
has lost their address. She can only remember that the name of the
organization was (apparently) an acronym "JONT", and that it might have
been headquartered in New York City. Any info would be appreciated.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: JONT #general

Dr.Katalin Got
 

Dear John,I think you are looking for the organisation JOINT.There indeed
is and has been such an organisation.We lived in Budapest after the war and
can thank the Joint to be able to exist and to go through University years.
They also paid the expenses of our immigration to Australia and that of my
mother and aunt.There are numberless Jews grateful to the JOINT all around
the World.Their headquarter is in New York City. I do not know the address
but I think Genners who live there might give you exact information.
Best regards to your aunt in Poland.
Katalin Got
Adelaide
Australia


Ellen SIEGEL -- Stryj Researcher #poland

Willie46@...
 

If anyone knows Ellen Siegel, a researcher for Stryj, Ukraine
(east Galicia), please ask her to contact me at <willie46@aol.com>.

Mark Halpern
AGAD Archive Coordinator
JRI-Poland
Visit the JRI-Poland web site at http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/
Jewish Records Indexing - Poland, Inc. is an independent
nonprofit US tax-exempt organization and is hosted by JewishGen.


Re: Trepman VS Trejbman - your opinion #general

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

If you must you must. I too am a linguist, a translator by training, with
a BA in Romance languages and with a fair English and German. My opinion
was not based on my "educational learning" of languages but on my
experience of Yiddish ( my mother tongue) and by the work I have been doing
in genealogy research. I have cooperated in the revision and correction of
Yizkor Book Necrology lists and have a good working knowledge of how
surnames can be "transformed" by immigration officers, etc...

If you say TREPMAN in Yiddish and I have asked my mother to read it aloud
for me you do not get TREJBAN. You could possibly get TREBMAN by "not
hearing it so well" But no way saying it allowed a few times or asking
my mother to do so did we get anything that even sounded as if it had an I
or J.

As they would say in Yiddish: " a treiber is nisht a treper"

We can agree to disagree.

Susana

At 09:55 PM 9/1/2002 -0400, you wrote:
I must disagree. I wrote to Ms. Feldman privately before, but TREPMAN and
TREJBMAN could very easily be sound alikes. We don't know >from Ms.
Feldman's letter who did the transcription--whether the ancestor wrote his
or her own name or whether an immigration officer or someone else did. In
which case P and B sound very alike, especially word-medially. E represents
a short vowel in English, but in other writing systems represents a long
vowel and in both cases EJ is a related diphthong so I can certainly see one
being replaced by the other.

While I do agree that not every Soundex match is a good one; this one seems
perfectly plausible.

Teresa Galloway
Department of Linguistics
Cornell University

-