Date   

Re: Civil records #hungary

Margarita Lacko <mishpologia@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

This is our experience, regarding Town Halls in Hungary on August 2001.

Budapest:
Birth certificate of someone born in 1924.
I was given an EXTRACT of the record, which had only the basic information
(name of new born, date when born and parents' names). This is not all the
information that was in the original book. I know this because after
obtaining the extract, I asked lots of questions.
I was not allowed to see the original book.

Miskloc:
Birth certificate of Herman BLAU, born 1888.
I had written an e-mail before arriving and did get a response >from the
Mayor, telling me who should I contact when we arrive. (See H-sig archives,
7 Sep 2001, "Back >from Hungary and Slovakia (part 1)"). My grandfather's
record was not at the Town Hall, but I did find his birth record at the
archives of the Jewish Community.
I was allowed to see the book and write the information (no photocopies nor
photography allowed).

Tolcsva:
Birth certificate of Dezso KOHN, born 1904.
We arrived unannounced and had lots of luck! We got EXTRACTS of his birth
record, marriage record of his parents KOHN Lajos and GRUN Margit, and
death record of GRUN Margit (there are some discrepancies about this last
one, questions will be posted in another e-mail).

I agree with Pamela that Town Halls outside of Budapest seem to be more
informal and friendly. Also, generally older people don't speak English,
but they do their best to communicate.

Margarita Lackó
from "the island" in Miami
GENEALOGY: © mishpologia@uzidog.com
uzidog@the-beach.net
uzidog2000@yahoo.com
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Weisberger [mailto:pweisberger@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 16:03
To: Hungarian SIG
Subject: [h-sig] Re: Civil records



If anyone else has had recent experience with obtaining post-1895
records >from within Hungary (other than those microfilmed and made
available by the Family History Library), please let us all know!

Regarding Robert Friedman's query about researching (post 1895) civil
records in Hungary:


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Civil records #hungary

Margarita Lacko <mishpologia@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

This is our experience, regarding Town Halls in Hungary on August 2001.

Budapest:
Birth certificate of someone born in 1924.
I was given an EXTRACT of the record, which had only the basic information
(name of new born, date when born and parents' names). This is not all the
information that was in the original book. I know this because after
obtaining the extract, I asked lots of questions.
I was not allowed to see the original book.

Miskloc:
Birth certificate of Herman BLAU, born 1888.
I had written an e-mail before arriving and did get a response >from the
Mayor, telling me who should I contact when we arrive. (See H-sig archives,
7 Sep 2001, "Back >from Hungary and Slovakia (part 1)"). My grandfather's
record was not at the Town Hall, but I did find his birth record at the
archives of the Jewish Community.
I was allowed to see the book and write the information (no photocopies nor
photography allowed).

Tolcsva:
Birth certificate of Dezso KOHN, born 1904.
We arrived unannounced and had lots of luck! We got EXTRACTS of his birth
record, marriage record of his parents KOHN Lajos and GRUN Margit, and
death record of GRUN Margit (there are some discrepancies about this last
one, questions will be posted in another e-mail).

I agree with Pamela that Town Halls outside of Budapest seem to be more
informal and friendly. Also, generally older people don't speak English,
but they do their best to communicate.

Margarita Lackó
from "the island" in Miami
GENEALOGY: © mishpologia@uzidog.com
uzidog@the-beach.net
uzidog2000@yahoo.com
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Weisberger [mailto:pweisberger@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 16:03
To: Hungarian SIG
Subject: [h-sig] Re: Civil records



If anyone else has had recent experience with obtaining post-1895
records >from within Hungary (other than those microfilmed and made
available by the Family History Library), please let us all know!

Regarding Robert Friedman's query about researching (post 1895) civil
records in Hungary:


Records from Slovakia: Transcripts versus Photocopies #hungary

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Be aware of the differences between transcripts and photocopies of original
documents >from Slovakia.

I received a transcript of a marriage record >from the Slovak Embassy in
Washington, D.C. and compared it to a photocopy of the original record >from
which the transcript was made. The transcript, at best, had a minimum of
information that identifies the names of the wedding couple, their parents,
and the date and location of the marriage event. That's all, while the
photocopy gave additional information pertaining to occupation, religious
affiliations, residences, and names of witnesses and their towns who
turned out to be relatives to the wedding couple. Interestingly, the
transcript pre-printed forms call for additional information, but the
transcriber chose to enter the Slovak word, "neuvendene" (not recorded or
not registered). Furthermore, the transcript had spelling errors that can
be only corrected by examining the photocopy. I have other transcripts that
illustrate similar shortcomings.

There are two direct ways of obtaining records >from Slovakia. One way is to
submit an application to the Ministry of the Interior in Bratislava
http://www.iarelative.com/embassy.htm . Several months may pass before the
search is completed and a request for payment based on time and
administrative costs is sent to the applicant. After payment, photocopies
of the original records are sent to the applicant. The Slovak Embassy in
Washington, D.C. plays no role in these transactions.

The other way is to submit a request to the Slovak Embassy along with a
prepayment of $10 per record. Usually, this route is for events occurring
in and after 1900. The Embassy, in turn, sends the request directly to the
municipality where the event occurred. After several weeks, the
municipality sends a certified transcript of each original record back to
Washington where the record is mailed with signature requested to the
applicant.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC


Hungary SIG #Hungary Records from Slovakia: Transcripts versus Photocopies #hungary

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

Be aware of the differences between transcripts and photocopies of original
documents >from Slovakia.

I received a transcript of a marriage record >from the Slovak Embassy in
Washington, D.C. and compared it to a photocopy of the original record >from
which the transcript was made. The transcript, at best, had a minimum of
information that identifies the names of the wedding couple, their parents,
and the date and location of the marriage event. That's all, while the
photocopy gave additional information pertaining to occupation, religious
affiliations, residences, and names of witnesses and their towns who
turned out to be relatives to the wedding couple. Interestingly, the
transcript pre-printed forms call for additional information, but the
transcriber chose to enter the Slovak word, "neuvendene" (not recorded or
not registered). Furthermore, the transcript had spelling errors that can
be only corrected by examining the photocopy. I have other transcripts that
illustrate similar shortcomings.

There are two direct ways of obtaining records >from Slovakia. One way is to
submit an application to the Ministry of the Interior in Bratislava
http://www.iarelative.com/embassy.htm . Several months may pass before the
search is completed and a request for payment based on time and
administrative costs is sent to the applicant. After payment, photocopies
of the original records are sent to the applicant. The Slovak Embassy in
Washington, D.C. plays no role in these transactions.

The other way is to submit a request to the Slovak Embassy along with a
prepayment of $10 per record. Usually, this route is for events occurring
in and after 1900. The Embassy, in turn, sends the request directly to the
municipality where the event occurred. After several weeks, the
municipality sends a certified transcript of each original record back to
Washington where the record is mailed with signature requested to the
applicant.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC


Re: * Nagyvarad photos #hungary

Robert Friedman <vze2sv8z@...>
 

Additional suggestions:

http://www.transindex.ro/nagyvarad/kepesvarad.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/nagyvarad/regi.html

Bob Friedman, NYC
inwood@pipeline.com

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:39:36 -0300, Tom Venetianer
<tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

The Wandering Internet Jew (me) found a site which may be of interest=20
to those who are researching Nagyvarad (Oradea Mare), Romania. You=20
can see some local photos at: http://www.imrehun.com/nvarad.html
Enjoy
Tom


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * Nagyvarad photos #hungary

Robert Friedman <vze2sv8z@...>
 

Additional suggestions:

http://www.transindex.ro/nagyvarad/kepesvarad.htm
http://home.swipnet.se/nagyvarad/regi.html

Bob Friedman, NYC
inwood@pipeline.com

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:39:36 -0300, Tom Venetianer
<tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

The Wandering Internet Jew (me) found a site which may be of interest=20
to those who are researching Nagyvarad (Oradea Mare), Romania. You=20
can see some local photos at: http://www.imrehun.com/nvarad.html
Enjoy
Tom


Re: Rivers in Romania #romania

Laura Simms <storydevi@...>
 

I am writing >from Iasi in Romania. I just spoke with the director of the
National Theater and they are having - for the first time - a three day
international festival devoted to the memory and work of Goldfaden and the
Yiddish Theater. It is very exciting. October 15-18th. If anyone wants
information, please contact me.

Laura Simms


Romania SIG #Romania Re: Rivers in Romania #romania

Laura Simms <storydevi@...>
 

I am writing >from Iasi in Romania. I just spoke with the director of the
National Theater and they are having - for the first time - a three day
international festival devoted to the memory and work of Goldfaden and the
Yiddish Theater. It is very exciting. October 15-18th. If anyone wants
information, please contact me.

Laura Simms


Re: Use of maternal surnames #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Ah the frustration of genealogy. Our ancestors did not live simple lives.
It could have been that sisters 7 years apart had different mothers, as men
often remarried soon after loss of a wife-someone had to keep the house and
raise the little kids. I found a 17 year old sister of my 45 year old gr
grandmother on a census; her marriage record says that her mother's maiden
name was Pankow-was that the same woman as my 2nd gr grandmother?

People also used different surnames-we have seen records in JRI-PP and
elsewhere 'Kagan v Rabinowitz' where someone was surnamed sometimes Kagan
and sometimes Rabinowitz. Unfortunately for genealogists, our ancestors
just weren't attached to their surnames like most of us.

If the records are mystifying, that is part of the fun!

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


Marcus CROHN AND Hyman CROWN death notices #general

Kroll
 

I am assuming that the above were buried in a New York
cemetery since their wives were living at the Olcott hotel on West 72nd St.
while their husbands were in Texas. Marcus CROHN was born in Szamocin,
Prussia on Jan 28, 1848 and died on June 20, 1917. Hyman CROWN was born in
Manchester, England in 1868 and died in San Antonio, TX. on Jan 26, 1929.
There is no record of a Jewish burial in San Antonio so I presume that
Hyman's body was brought to New York for burial. Death notices or
obituaries in the New York Times should indicate in which cemetery they were
buried. Since I do not have access to the NYTimes indexes I would appreciate
help. Eliezer Kroll in Israel.


LA obit no longer necessary, but many thanks to all #general

Howard Zakai
 

I just wanted to thank everyone for their willingness to lookup the obituary
in the Los Angeles Times. As it turns out, it is no longer needed. I spoke
to Abe Kurzius's widow and indeed, I contacted the right family. She gave me
some information that may lead me to find finding my cousin Martin. It is a
long story and I hope to post a message about everything soon.

Many thanks.

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Use of maternal surnames #general

sallybru <sallybru@...>
 

Ah the frustration of genealogy. Our ancestors did not live simple lives.
It could have been that sisters 7 years apart had different mothers, as men
often remarried soon after loss of a wife-someone had to keep the house and
raise the little kids. I found a 17 year old sister of my 45 year old gr
grandmother on a census; her marriage record says that her mother's maiden
name was Pankow-was that the same woman as my 2nd gr grandmother?

People also used different surnames-we have seen records in JRI-PP and
elsewhere 'Kagan v Rabinowitz' where someone was surnamed sometimes Kagan
and sometimes Rabinowitz. Unfortunately for genealogists, our ancestors
just weren't attached to their surnames like most of us.

If the records are mystifying, that is part of the fun!

Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Marcus CROHN AND Hyman CROWN death notices #general

Kroll
 

I am assuming that the above were buried in a New York
cemetery since their wives were living at the Olcott hotel on West 72nd St.
while their husbands were in Texas. Marcus CROHN was born in Szamocin,
Prussia on Jan 28, 1848 and died on June 20, 1917. Hyman CROWN was born in
Manchester, England in 1868 and died in San Antonio, TX. on Jan 26, 1929.
There is no record of a Jewish burial in San Antonio so I presume that
Hyman's body was brought to New York for burial. Death notices or
obituaries in the New York Times should indicate in which cemetery they were
buried. Since I do not have access to the NYTimes indexes I would appreciate
help. Eliezer Kroll in Israel.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LA obit no longer necessary, but many thanks to all #general

Howard Zakai
 

I just wanted to thank everyone for their willingness to lookup the obituary
in the Los Angeles Times. As it turns out, it is no longer needed. I spoke
to Abe Kurzius's widow and indeed, I contacted the right family. She gave me
some information that may lead me to find finding my cousin Martin. It is a
long story and I hope to post a message about everything soon.

Many thanks.

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY


hawker and draper - definitions #general

victoria <vbar@...>
 

There have been several queries about the terms *hawker* and *draper*.
Here is how the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines them. (I have
been advised by the Moderators that I cannot quote the Dictionary
directly, but I assume that it's OK to paraphrase it.)

The word *hawker* is derived >from a Middle Low German word *hocken*
which means *to take or carry on the back*. But the meaning appears
to have changed over time. When it first entered the English
language, it refered to someone who goes >from place to place selling
his wares. By the late 19th century in England (if not earlier), a
hawker was distinguished >from a pedlar: a hawker used a horse and
cart to carry his goods while a pedlar carried them on his back. Not
surprisingly, a hawker's license was more expensive than a pedlar's
license.

The word *draper* came, through Anglo-French, >from *drap*, the French
word for *cloth*.Originally, *draper* referred to a person who made
cloth. Then it came to mean someone who sold cloth, and later, by
extension, articles made >from cloth.

Victoria Barkoff
Montreal, Canada


Yiddish translation needed #general

Joelle van den Berg-Lewkowicz <joellevandenberg@...>
 

Hallo all,

A cousin has sent me a 1920s or 30s era photograph of a young couple taken
in Poland and sent to California to his now deceased mother. None of us has
a clue who they are. On the back is some writing, most likely Polish
Yiddish. Can someone please read it for me?

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/)
File 20VM1795

PLease reply privately. Thank you so much for your help!

Joelle Lewkowicz van den Berg
Kring van Dorth, Netherlands
Joellevandenberg@hotmail.com


Another Branch for my YANOVSKY tree #general

Dov & Varda <yknow@...>
 

Now I know why I have joined so many SIGs. I found the descendants of my
mpggm's sister through the Vasilishki sig, when one of them joined that
group and posted the surnames she was researching. Both of us have lived in
and just outside Jerusalem for close to a quarter of a century without
knowing of each other's existence.

I met my cousin this morning and we had a wonderful time fleshing out our
stories and shaking our heads in awe at having found each other.

Thanks to joining this SIG, I have the tree of the last of the four
siblings in this line that I have been researching.

Moadim L'Simcha,
Varda Epstein
Efrat
Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen hawker and draper - definitions #general

victoria <vbar@...>
 

There have been several queries about the terms *hawker* and *draper*.
Here is how the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines them. (I have
been advised by the Moderators that I cannot quote the Dictionary
directly, but I assume that it's OK to paraphrase it.)

The word *hawker* is derived >from a Middle Low German word *hocken*
which means *to take or carry on the back*. But the meaning appears
to have changed over time. When it first entered the English
language, it refered to someone who goes >from place to place selling
his wares. By the late 19th century in England (if not earlier), a
hawker was distinguished >from a pedlar: a hawker used a horse and
cart to carry his goods while a pedlar carried them on his back. Not
surprisingly, a hawker's license was more expensive than a pedlar's
license.

The word *draper* came, through Anglo-French, >from *drap*, the French
word for *cloth*.Originally, *draper* referred to a person who made
cloth. Then it came to mean someone who sold cloth, and later, by
extension, articles made >from cloth.

Victoria Barkoff
Montreal, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish translation needed #general

Joelle van den Berg-Lewkowicz <joellevandenberg@...>
 

Hallo all,

A cousin has sent me a 1920s or 30s era photograph of a young couple taken
in Poland and sent to California to his now deceased mother. None of us has
a clue who they are. On the back is some writing, most likely Polish
Yiddish. Can someone please read it for me?

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/)
File 20VM1795

PLease reply privately. Thank you so much for your help!

Joelle Lewkowicz van den Berg
Kring van Dorth, Netherlands
Joellevandenberg@hotmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Another Branch for my YANOVSKY tree #general

Dov & Varda <yknow@...>
 

Now I know why I have joined so many SIGs. I found the descendants of my
mpggm's sister through the Vasilishki sig, when one of them joined that
group and posted the surnames she was researching. Both of us have lived in
and just outside Jerusalem for close to a quarter of a century without
knowing of each other's existence.

I met my cousin this morning and we had a wonderful time fleshing out our
stories and shaking our heads in awe at having found each other.

Thanks to joining this SIG, I have the tree of the last of the four
siblings in this line that I have been researching.

Moadim L'Simcha,
Varda Epstein
Efrat
Israel