Date   

Thanks for translation help with #ukraine

David Roodman <drood@...>
 

Thanks to everyone who helped translate the gravestones of SCHMUCKLER &
GILLMAN I wrote about yesterday. The Internet and this list are amazing
resources.
--David Roodman
Baltimore, MD


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Thanks for translation help with #ukraine

David Roodman <drood@...>
 

Thanks to everyone who helped translate the gravestones of SCHMUCKLER &
GILLMAN I wrote about yesterday. The Internet and this list are amazing
resources.
--David Roodman
Baltimore, MD


FW: BARISHNIKOFF (BARISH) #ukraine

Lyn Blyden <lyn@...>
 

Hello Everyone,

I am researching the name BARISHNIKOFF or
a similar spelling. I know that the family
changed the name to BARISH (r/rr) when they
emigrated >from the Ukraine and many settled
in the Philadelphia area.

There were several intermarriages between
the MEDOFF and BARISH families. Should the names
mean anything to you, would you contact me?

BTW, our local JIGS had a speaker talking about
the
1930 Census. If you can, locate addresses for
individuals to determine the Enumeration District
(ED).


Researching MEDVEDOVSKY/MEDOFF, BARISNIKOFF/BARISH

Thank you! lyn blyden


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine FW: BARISHNIKOFF (BARISH) #ukraine

Lyn Blyden <lyn@...>
 

Hello Everyone,

I am researching the name BARISHNIKOFF or
a similar spelling. I know that the family
changed the name to BARISH (r/rr) when they
emigrated >from the Ukraine and many settled
in the Philadelphia area.

There were several intermarriages between
the MEDOFF and BARISH families. Should the names
mean anything to you, would you contact me?

BTW, our local JIGS had a speaker talking about
the
1930 Census. If you can, locate addresses for
individuals to determine the Enumeration District
(ED).


Researching MEDVEDOVSKY/MEDOFF, BARISNIKOFF/BARISH

Thank you! lyn blyden


Babba Yaga lore #ukraine

jgen <kyg1rzbe33d7fh001@...>
 

"Just wondering if anyone >from the area around Radomyshl or Olevsk, would
have family lore that might include visits to some sort of witch. I was
told that my 'enlightened' worldly, Jewish ancestors paid a visit, to what I
think was called a Babba Yaga, to remove a spell which they believed had
been cast on their first born son. The period would have been 1910.
This may not help me find new ancestors, but it might give me further
understanding of the lives of my relatives."

Interesting. My parents retired to Barto, Pa, near Pottstown north of
Reading (Pa. Dutch country). They lived on "Chew" Road, which they
surmised had been sanitized >from an earlier name. There was an old Jewish
woman down the road that my mother claimed was a witch. She would never
talk much about what went on there. It never occurred to me that this had
more than local validity.

Steve FRANKLIN
Baltimore
http://www.bcpl.net/~franklin/steve.htm
Ekaterinoslav/Holodish: FRANKLIN/FRANKL/FRENKEL
SCHAFF/SHAFSHINSKY/SHEVCHINSKY
WOLF (just found this out)


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Babba Yaga lore #ukraine

jgen <kyg1rzbe33d7fh001@...>
 

"Just wondering if anyone >from the area around Radomyshl or Olevsk, would
have family lore that might include visits to some sort of witch. I was
told that my 'enlightened' worldly, Jewish ancestors paid a visit, to what I
think was called a Babba Yaga, to remove a spell which they believed had
been cast on their first born son. The period would have been 1910.
This may not help me find new ancestors, but it might give me further
understanding of the lives of my relatives."

Interesting. My parents retired to Barto, Pa, near Pottstown north of
Reading (Pa. Dutch country). They lived on "Chew" Road, which they
surmised had been sanitized >from an earlier name. There was an old Jewish
woman down the road that my mother claimed was a witch. She would never
talk much about what went on there. It never occurred to me that this had
more than local validity.

Steve FRANKLIN
Baltimore
http://www.bcpl.net/~franklin/steve.htm
Ekaterinoslav/Holodish: FRANKLIN/FRANKL/FRENKEL
SCHAFF/SHAFSHINSKY/SHEVCHINSKY
WOLF (just found this out)


Re: Surname spelling variations - SANDEGURSKY #ukraine

FREYAB@...
 

Ron Goldman writes in part:

*They*, when asked for SANDEGURSKY, came up with records for
SADOGURSKY/SADYGURSKY, acceptable insofar as the vowel variations,
but omitting completely the *N*...............


What we are ALL doing in our research, is 'JEWISH GENEALOGY WITH
VARYING ACCENTS'. We have become so accustomed to SEEING the
printed word on the computer that we have forgotten what it "sounds" like
to do genealogy. When names are spoken, they can sound entirely different
from what we are used to hearing/seeing. It all depends on the accent and/or
dialect of the speaker. We seem to have forgotten how to use our ears.

As an example, Lech Walesa - there is no "N" in the last name and yet, when
we hear it pronounced by every news reporter, it is Walensa. The town of
Chestochowa - again, no "N: - yet I have always heard it as Chenstachowa.
There are also surnames and town names that have extra syllables added
to them- - Yankel / Yankele, you get the picture.

Keep in mind that in the 1800's spelling was also not the way we know it
today. No one really knew how to spell. There were no set rules, so to
speak, and no cross-references to compare with. They spelled it like it
sounded - - and it sounded different in each geographical area - dialect
and accent dictated the "spelling".

So keep this in mind while researching. If you are not sure of something,
just save it on the side - do not discard it. Eventually you will be able to
put
it in it's proper place. I had a slew of "gee, I really don't know what to
do
with these" items and most have found their way to one of my branches.
I still have a few who have claimed they are not related but familial
resemblances belie that claim. One gent was a dead ringer for my father -
they could have been twins, so there is no way I believe that his side is not
related. But they could not go back that one more generation for me to make
a positive link - - - and believe me, I have been trying for over 20 years.
There
has been no stone left unturned! So it now sits until I have time to pick
it up
again - maybe when I retire!

What I would like to see, hmmmm - "hear" - is every Genner speaking their
names out loud. Close your eyes and talk. Listen to how YOU pronounce it,
then try it several different ways, maybe even like your gm/gf or ggm/ggf
would have said it. In your own mind - (eyes still closed) spell what you
are
saying. Now, tell me how many ways you can spell that same name!!


Freya Blitstein Maslov
Morton Grove, IL

Researching BLITSTEIN / BLITZSTEIN >from Trochinbrod/Sofiewka - Zofyuvka,
Lutsk, Rovno, Berdichev, Shitomer, Kiew; ROSMARIN / ROZMARIN and DRUCH >from
Miropol, Polonnoye


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Surname spelling variations - SANDEGURSKY #ukraine

FREYAB@...
 

Ron Goldman writes in part:

*They*, when asked for SANDEGURSKY, came up with records for
SADOGURSKY/SADYGURSKY, acceptable insofar as the vowel variations,
but omitting completely the *N*...............


What we are ALL doing in our research, is 'JEWISH GENEALOGY WITH
VARYING ACCENTS'. We have become so accustomed to SEEING the
printed word on the computer that we have forgotten what it "sounds" like
to do genealogy. When names are spoken, they can sound entirely different
from what we are used to hearing/seeing. It all depends on the accent and/or
dialect of the speaker. We seem to have forgotten how to use our ears.

As an example, Lech Walesa - there is no "N" in the last name and yet, when
we hear it pronounced by every news reporter, it is Walensa. The town of
Chestochowa - again, no "N: - yet I have always heard it as Chenstachowa.
There are also surnames and town names that have extra syllables added
to them- - Yankel / Yankele, you get the picture.

Keep in mind that in the 1800's spelling was also not the way we know it
today. No one really knew how to spell. There were no set rules, so to
speak, and no cross-references to compare with. They spelled it like it
sounded - - and it sounded different in each geographical area - dialect
and accent dictated the "spelling".

So keep this in mind while researching. If you are not sure of something,
just save it on the side - do not discard it. Eventually you will be able to
put
it in it's proper place. I had a slew of "gee, I really don't know what to
do
with these" items and most have found their way to one of my branches.
I still have a few who have claimed they are not related but familial
resemblances belie that claim. One gent was a dead ringer for my father -
they could have been twins, so there is no way I believe that his side is not
related. But they could not go back that one more generation for me to make
a positive link - - - and believe me, I have been trying for over 20 years.
There
has been no stone left unturned! So it now sits until I have time to pick
it up
again - maybe when I retire!

What I would like to see, hmmmm - "hear" - is every Genner speaking their
names out loud. Close your eyes and talk. Listen to how YOU pronounce it,
then try it several different ways, maybe even like your gm/gf or ggm/ggf
would have said it. In your own mind - (eyes still closed) spell what you
are
saying. Now, tell me how many ways you can spell that same name!!


Freya Blitstein Maslov
Morton Grove, IL

Researching BLITSTEIN / BLITZSTEIN >from Trochinbrod/Sofiewka - Zofyuvka,
Lutsk, Rovno, Berdichev, Shitomer, Kiew; ROSMARIN / ROZMARIN and DRUCH >from
Miropol, Polonnoye


Seeking help translating stones of SCHMUCKLER & GILLMAN--apology #ukraine

David Roodman <drood@...>
 

Sorry, I didn't mean to post my previous note to this list, but to a
separate list of potential relatives maintained by Jeffrey Knisbacher. But
if anyone can help translate, great!
--David Roodman
Baltimore, MD


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Seeking help translating stones of SCHMUCKLER & GILLMAN--apology #ukraine

David Roodman <drood@...>
 

Sorry, I didn't mean to post my previous note to this list, but to a
separate list of potential relatives maintained by Jeffrey Knisbacher. But
if anyone can help translate, great!
--David Roodman
Baltimore, MD


Re: Babba Yaga lore #ukraine

NFatouros@...
 

In a message dated 3/15/02 7:53:00 PM, havival@bellsouth.net writes:

<< Just wondering if anyone >from the area around Radomyshl or Olevsk, would

have family lore that might include visits to some sort of witch. I was

told that my 'enlightened' wordly, Jewish ancestors paid a visit, to what I

think was called a Babba Yaga, to remove a spell which they believed had

been cast on their first born son. The period would have been 1910.

This may not help me find new ancestors, but it might give me further

understanding of the lives of my relatives.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer >>

The many tales of a mythical being called "Baba Yaga" were circulated all
around Russia. (Similar tales about such beings, albeit with other names
arose in Western Europe as well.) Many Jews, even so called worldly or
enlightened ones, adopted her, (as well as some other superstitions) >from the
rest of the populace among whom they lived. Over the centuries Baba Yaga
devolved >from a sort of combination of the Virgin Mary and pagan goddess of
life and death into a witchy crone or old hag, with miraculous talents.
Stories about this personage were often told to children to amuse them or to
scare them into being good.


The powers of Baba Yaga were often attributed to any very old,therefore
presumably wise woman who lived in the town or in nearby forest. Even for
Jews it may not have been unusual to go to her or to summon her beseeching
her help in relieving illness, conceiving a child, etc... the same sort of
help the same or other Jews would seek >from a presumably wise chassidic rabbi
or tzaddik.

As for the superstitiousness of "enlightened" or "worldly" beings, a lot
of educated people today still avoid black cats and walking under ladders.
They'll spit three times, or make the sign of the cross over themselves, or
throw a pinch of salt over their shoulder, or they'll knock on wood to scare
away evil spirits (umbeshreien?) when they are reporting something good about
themselves or about something good that has happened to them.

As an irreligious, unmystical, and pragmatic person, even I have often
found myself on some occasions automatically knocking on wood or, in the
absence of a wood surface, rapping on my own noggin! However, I do not fear
black cats (although by chance I've never had one to care for) and I don't
bother about throwing salt over my shoulder, or not walking under ladders,
and I never spit anything but mouthwash and toothpaste, or saltwater the rare
times my throat is sore.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk;
SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse; SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk;
RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY,
Ostryna.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Babba Yaga lore #ukraine

NFatouros@...
 

In a message dated 3/15/02 7:53:00 PM, havival@bellsouth.net writes:

<< Just wondering if anyone >from the area around Radomyshl or Olevsk, would

have family lore that might include visits to some sort of witch. I was

told that my 'enlightened' wordly, Jewish ancestors paid a visit, to what I

think was called a Babba Yaga, to remove a spell which they believed had

been cast on their first born son. The period would have been 1910.

This may not help me find new ancestors, but it might give me further

understanding of the lives of my relatives.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer >>

The many tales of a mythical being called "Baba Yaga" were circulated all
around Russia. (Similar tales about such beings, albeit with other names
arose in Western Europe as well.) Many Jews, even so called worldly or
enlightened ones, adopted her, (as well as some other superstitions) >from the
rest of the populace among whom they lived. Over the centuries Baba Yaga
devolved >from a sort of combination of the Virgin Mary and pagan goddess of
life and death into a witchy crone or old hag, with miraculous talents.
Stories about this personage were often told to children to amuse them or to
scare them into being good.


The powers of Baba Yaga were often attributed to any very old,therefore
presumably wise woman who lived in the town or in nearby forest. Even for
Jews it may not have been unusual to go to her or to summon her beseeching
her help in relieving illness, conceiving a child, etc... the same sort of
help the same or other Jews would seek >from a presumably wise chassidic rabbi
or tzaddik.

As for the superstitiousness of "enlightened" or "worldly" beings, a lot
of educated people today still avoid black cats and walking under ladders.
They'll spit three times, or make the sign of the cross over themselves, or
throw a pinch of salt over their shoulder, or they'll knock on wood to scare
away evil spirits (umbeshreien?) when they are reporting something good about
themselves or about something good that has happened to them.

As an irreligious, unmystical, and pragmatic person, even I have often
found myself on some occasions automatically knocking on wood or, in the
absence of a wood surface, rapping on my own noggin! However, I do not fear
black cats (although by chance I've never had one to care for) and I don't
bother about throwing salt over my shoulder, or not walking under ladders,
and I never spit anything but mouthwash and toothpaste, or saltwater the rare
times my throat is sore.


Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY and BIELKOWSKY, Odessa and Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk;
SCHUTZ, RETTIG, WAHL, Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse; SAS or SASS,Podwolochisk;
RAPOPORT, Tarnopol, Korostyshev; BEHAM, Salok and Kharkov; WOLPIANSKY,
Ostryna.


Re: KANTEROVITZ/KANTOR-Karlin #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

Further to my message, I was wondering if anyone has a Yizkor book
or another literary source covering Karlin during the mid-19th cent.

Interesting coincidence (or not) my great grandmother, Brocha
KANTOR's, husband who she met only in Israel, was a distant relative
(mechutan) of the family of the Admor of Karlin. Details in further
message.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: KANTEROVITZ/KANTOR-Karlin #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

Further to my message, I was wondering if anyone has a Yizkor book
or another literary source covering Karlin during the mid-19th cent.

Interesting coincidence (or not) my great grandmother, Brocha
KANTOR's, husband who she met only in Israel, was a distant relative
(mechutan) of the family of the Admor of Karlin. Details in further
message.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem


KANTEROVITZ/KANTOR-Karlin #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

I just received a copy of my great great uncle which states the following:
"I, (Chaim Dov KANTOR/KANTORVITZ)was born in Karlin in 1866 to Reb' Shlomo
son of R' Eliezer, and my mother Hinde Sora daughter of R' Yosef SHATZ. My
father was a big talmid Chocham as a relative of my mother, the Gaon R'
Mordechai RUDINER, ABD of Karlin, related. My mother was descendant >from the
family of Reb' Chaim of VOLOZHIN. My father died in 1873."

Shortly after being orphaned his family, mother and four children (incl. my
great grandmother) immigrated to Israel.

Is there anyway that I can research the names refered to in his diary. I am
not researching his descendants or sibling's descendants as they are well
known to me.

Shavua Tov and Chag Sameach Vekasher


Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic KANTEROVITZ/KANTOR-Karlin #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

I just received a copy of my great great uncle which states the following:
"I, (Chaim Dov KANTOR/KANTORVITZ)was born in Karlin in 1866 to Reb' Shlomo
son of R' Eliezer, and my mother Hinde Sora daughter of R' Yosef SHATZ. My
father was a big talmid Chocham as a relative of my mother, the Gaon R'
Mordechai RUDINER, ABD of Karlin, related. My mother was descendant >from the
family of Reb' Chaim of VOLOZHIN. My father died in 1873."

Shortly after being orphaned his family, mother and four children (incl. my
great grandmother) immigrated to Israel.

Is there anyway that I can research the names refered to in his diary. I am
not researching his descendants or sibling's descendants as they are well
known to me.

Shavua Tov and Chag Sameach Vekasher


Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


R' Yisrael of Ostraw #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

According to family sources, the child of one of my ancestors - Reb'
Yisrael of Ostraw - married the daughter of Reb' Aharon of Lechovitz,
who was married to the daughter of Reb' Asher of Stolin who was the
son-in-law of Reb Aharon of Karlin.

According to my information, this Yisroel was buried in Tveria
(Israel) probably around the early to mid 19th cent. I've checked the
chevra kadisha of Tveria for records but they said that years ago
there was a flood which destroyed many of their records.

Does anyone know how I can trace this Yisroel and his ancestors who,
to the best of my knowledge are linked directly to the MaHaRaL and the
MaHaRSHaL. The sources I've checked (Wunder and Rosenstein) only go
to Yisroel's grandfather (Reb' Arieh Leib of Kremnitz) and up. As
mentioned I am trying to confirm the connection between Yisroel and
Arieh Leib.

Thank you

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic R' Yisrael of Ostraw #rabbinic

Yonatan Ben Ari <yonatan@...>
 

According to family sources, the child of one of my ancestors - Reb'
Yisrael of Ostraw - married the daughter of Reb' Aharon of Lechovitz,
who was married to the daughter of Reb' Asher of Stolin who was the
son-in-law of Reb Aharon of Karlin.

According to my information, this Yisroel was buried in Tveria
(Israel) probably around the early to mid 19th cent. I've checked the
chevra kadisha of Tveria for records but they said that years ago
there was a flood which destroyed many of their records.

Does anyone know how I can trace this Yisroel and his ancestors who,
to the best of my knowledge are linked directly to the MaHaRaL and the
MaHaRSHaL. The sources I've checked (Wunder and Rosenstein) only go
to Yisroel's grandfather (Reb' Arieh Leib of Kremnitz) and up. As
mentioned I am trying to confirm the connection between Yisroel and
Arieh Leib.

Thank you

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem/Efrat


Re: Strange first name Dreizy #general

s_warshall@...
 

On 16 Mar 2002 10:50:06 -0800, idayosef@barak-online.net (Ida & Joseph
Schwarcz) wrote:


I had a friend in Rehovot whose English name was Daisy. She told me that
her Yiddish name was Dreyzl. I remember looking it up in Gorr's book and
finding its meaning, but I do not have access the book at present.
However, there is such a name.
According to Gorr, Dreiza and Dreizel are forms of the Slavic name
Drozha

Stephen Warshall
Gloucester, MA


Re: Discrepancies #general

Joan Silverman <jbsilverman@...>
 

Hi all,

I believe I have e-mailed individually all those with stories and
suggestions, but wanted to say thank you to anyone I might have missed and
to the group. You are all so helpful, especially for one who really
doesn't have time to do this work, but really wants to,and to find people
reaseaching the same name is pure joy!.

Thanks again

Joan Silverman
jbsilverman@attbi.com