In a message dated 2/26/2002 11:45:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
labergegroup@msn.com writes:

<< On an olde world Stammbaum are listed some letters which i hoping someone
will have the meaning of:

example is this information in a box:

Josef Loeb Cohn
K-Z
Dormitz

==The K-Z means Concentration Camp. Dormitz ie either the location of the
camp, or the location >from which he was sent there.

Roman Numeral One over
EHE
==Ehe means marriage. Presumably this is a first marriage

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

Is there someone who could check the local newspapers for a wedding probably
held in the Washington, D.C. / Rockville, MD area June 30, 2001 ?
Debra Dodell and Greg Ravitsky were the happy couple.

TIA,
Barbara S Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

I checked with my cousin Lottie Brucker Siegel (born 1909 in Stanislawow and
sharp as a tack!). She was named after her ggrandmother Liba. Lottie may
have been a popular nick name then?

Tina (Taube) Brucker Bercovitz (born 1880) had a daughter (1908) named
Lottie also. It turns out that her daughter was named Charlotte and used or
was given the name Lottie. Tina's Lottie was born in St. Paul, but Tina
came >from Radautz (now Radauti, Romania).

Our Brucker family can be traced back to the 1760's in Radautz (thanks to
cousin Bruce Reisch, his research and who has Brucker ancestors >from Radautz
also). Our best research seems to indicate that before the late 1700's,
German Jews moved to Bukovina and Radautz and then adopted, by law in 1790,
German sur names.

So, the Charlotte/Lottie seems to be a German naming tradition that was
exported, in our case, to Radautz (Romania, Hungary and part of Ukraine).

Shel Brucker
email: shel@ditialinsight.info
web site: www.BruckerFamily.net

Researching:
BRUCKER, FELLER, GRAUBART, GARTNER, KLEIN >from Radautz & Bukowina,
Romania/Ukraine, and in Brassov, Budapest and Bucharest, Hungary, St. Paul
BRUCKER, HAGUENAUER >from Paris, France
GREENBERG, GRUNBERG, GRIINBERG AND GERTLER >from Lodz, Poland and St. Paul,
ZILBERBERG in Poland
BERCOVITZ in St. Paul, MN, Los Angeles and Hungary?
WEINERT >from Brassov, Romania/Hungary

Is their someone in Manitoba who could get me copies of 2 articles which
appeared in the Jewish Post?

I have the dates and page numbers as well as the article #s. If you can
help, please respond privately.

Barbara S Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately

In a message dated 2/26/2002 11:45:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
labergegroup@msn.com writes:

<< On an olde world Stammbaum are listed some letters which i hoping someone
will have the meaning of:

example is this information in a box:

Josef Loeb Cohn
K-Z
Dormitz

==The K-Z means Concentration Camp. Dormitz ie either the location of the
camp, or the location >from which he was sent there.

Roman Numeral One over
EHE
==Ehe means marriage. Presumably this is a first marriage

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

Is there someone who could check the local newspapers for a wedding probably
held in the Washington, D.C. / Rockville, MD area June 30, 2001 ?
Debra Dodell and Greg Ravitsky were the happy couple.

TIA,
Barbara S Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

I checked with my cousin Lottie Brucker Siegel (born 1909 in Stanislawow and
sharp as a tack!). She was named after her ggrandmother Liba. Lottie may
have been a popular nick name then?

Tina (Taube) Brucker Bercovitz (born 1880) had a daughter (1908) named
Lottie also. It turns out that her daughter was named Charlotte and used or
was given the name Lottie. Tina's Lottie was born in St. Paul, but Tina
came >from Radautz (now Radauti, Romania).

Our Brucker family can be traced back to the 1760's in Radautz (thanks to
cousin Bruce Reisch, his research and who has Brucker ancestors >from Radautz
also). Our best research seems to indicate that before the late 1700's,
German Jews moved to Bukovina and Radautz and then adopted, by law in 1790,
German sur names.

So, the Charlotte/Lottie seems to be a German naming tradition that was
exported, in our case, to Radautz (Romania, Hungary and part of Ukraine).

Shel Brucker
email: shel@ditialinsight.info
web site: www.BruckerFamily.net

Researching:
BRUCKER, FELLER, GRAUBART, GARTNER, KLEIN >from Radautz & Bukowina,
Romania/Ukraine, and in Brassov, Budapest and Bucharest, Hungary, St. Paul
BRUCKER, HAGUENAUER >from Paris, France
GREENBERG, GRUNBERG, GRIINBERG AND GERTLER >from Lodz, Poland and St. Paul,
ZILBERBERG in Poland
BERCOVITZ in St. Paul, MN, Los Angeles and Hungary?
WEINERT >from Brassov, Romania/Hungary

Is their someone in Manitoba who could get me copies of 2 articles which
appeared in the Jewish Post?

I have the dates and page numbers as well as the article #s. If you can
help, please respond privately.

Barbara S Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately

According to my father's American passport, he arrived in
Bristol, England on February 9, 1944. Is there any way to find
out what ship he arrived on? I believe he sailed >from Halifax,
Nova Scotia.

Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@aya.yale.edu

According to my father's American passport, he arrived in
Bristol, England on February 9, 1944. Is there any way to find
out what ship he arrived on? I believe he sailed >from Halifax,
Nova Scotia.

Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@aya.yale.edu

I would like to find someone who would be willing to translate a page

from a facsimile copy of an old illustrated Spanish Haggadah (VM 1321). This

is an unusual book which was once in the Library of David Kaufman
(1852-1899), a teacher at the Jewish Theological Seminary in Budapest who
was also an avid book collector. I discovered this book in bookstore in
Bosten, Mass in 1963 and purchased it as a gift for my father which I
presented to him at Pesach of that year. He was enormously pleased with it
and wrote something in the back page including his name in what is either
Hebrew or Yiddish. I never learned what the text meant. The Haggadah came
into my hands when my father passed away in 1972.

I am very interested in what his handwritten text at the top of the
page; I would also be very pleased to have a translation of the text
originally printed on this page.

This would be a very opportune time for me to have this knowledge. I
have recently been able to trace my father's family to a Kronman in Kolo who
was born in the late 18th century; I am in the process of developing the
complete family genealogy in the Province of Poznan and hope to extend this
research to the Kronmans in Lodz province, particularly in the city of Lodz
and in Zdunska Wola. I would never have been able to do this without the
existance of JRI and the generous help given me by Madelein Okladek and
Kirstin Gradel, who I would like to publicly thank here.

I would appreciate your help.

Martin Kronman
Syracuse, NY 13214
Researching KRONMAN in Poland, Hungary and the United States

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately

I have a document >from the Czecholslovakian Consolate >from the 1920's that I
would appreciate it if someone could help with a translation. I can copy and
mail it if you contact me.

Thank you
Kay Barner
Kbarner@aol.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately

Bonnie,

If the funeral home was incorporated, the certificate of incorporation
should be on file in the NYC archives on 31 Chambers St 7th floor NY NY.
D Pitchon

I would like to find someone who would be willing to translate a page

from a facsimile copy of an old illustrated Spanish Haggadah (VM 1321). This

is an unusual book which was once in the Library of David Kaufman
(1852-1899), a teacher at the Jewish Theological Seminary in Budapest who
was also an avid book collector. I discovered this book in bookstore in
Bosten, Mass in 1963 and purchased it as a gift for my father which I
presented to him at Pesach of that year. He was enormously pleased with it
and wrote something in the back page including his name in what is either
Hebrew or Yiddish. I never learned what the text meant. The Haggadah came
into my hands when my father passed away in 1972.

I am very interested in what his handwritten text at the top of the
page; I would also be very pleased to have a translation of the text
originally printed on this page.

This would be a very opportune time for me to have this knowledge. I
have recently been able to trace my father's family to a Kronman in Kolo who
was born in the late 18th century; I am in the process of developing the
complete family genealogy in the Province of Poznan and hope to extend this
research to the Kronmans in Lodz province, particularly in the city of Lodz
and in Zdunska Wola. I would never have been able to do this without the
existance of JRI and the generous help given me by Madelein Okladek and
Kirstin Gradel, who I would like to publicly thank here.

I would appreciate your help.

Martin Kronman
Syracuse, NY 13214
Researching KRONMAN in Poland, Hungary and the United States

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately

I have a document >from the Czecholslovakian Consolate >from the 1920's that I
would appreciate it if someone could help with a translation. I can copy and
mail it if you contact me.

Thank you
Kay Barner
Kbarner@aol.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately

Bonnie,

If the funeral home was incorporated, the certificate of incorporation
should be on file in the NYC archives on 31 Chambers St 7th floor NY NY.
D Pitchon

Der Bernie,
I have used it to find out if Steve Morse (of the EIDB one-step)
with the same surname and town as myself and I were related
and we found out that we are not, but what I did find were seven
other surnames of exact matches, connections and relatives
with a common ancestors 300 to 500 years before. Of course,
we will probably never know the exact connection but the DNA
proof is the evidence of our common ancestry.

Diane Glazer Jacobs

New York

Hi,

Just curious about this DNA test. What are the results that you get back?

If

you're comparing with someone else, do you get a common ancestor name and

what the

relationship is or how many generations back it goes? If you're just

sending them

in the DNA test alone, do you get a list of people that you are connected

to, or a

list of ancestors and names?

Has anyone been able to use any of the DNA results that they have

received, to do

additional research on their family?

Thanks and kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch bernie06@sprynet.com Dallas, Texas

Der Bernie,
I have used it to find out if Steve Morse (of the EIDB one-step)
with the same surname and town as myself and I were related
and we found out that we are not, but what I did find were seven
other surnames of exact matches, connections and relatives
with a common ancestors 300 to 500 years before. Of course,
we will probably never know the exact connection but the DNA
proof is the evidence of our common ancestry.

Diane Glazer Jacobs

New York

Hi,

Just curious about this DNA test. What are the results that you get back?

If

you're comparing with someone else, do you get a common ancestor name and

what the

relationship is or how many generations back it goes? If you're just

sending them

in the DNA test alone, do you get a list of people that you are connected

to, or a

list of ancestors and names?

Has anyone been able to use any of the DNA results that they have

received, to do

additional research on their family?

Thanks and kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch bernie06@sprynet.com Dallas, Texas

My sister and I have been involved in genealogy since 1995 and are blessed
with a highly unusual surname, FELDHERR, making the search incredibly
easy. It also enabled us to come forth with a hypothesis which could
only be proven by DNA testing <g>

Bear with me here....this may be as valuable a lesson to you as it has been
for me and my research right hand, my sister Eleanor Bien.

With this unusual German surname and a title to boot, we managed to find
only one other family so named in the U.S. and was also Jewish. Here's
what the research revealed:

Their ancestral origins were in the same city as ours, Rzeszow, formerly
Galicia and now Poland.
Their great uncle and our great uncle lived in the same New York City lower
east side tenement at exactly the same time and were listed in the NYC
directory.
One of their uncles was listed in the Manhattan law office of our father
in a NYCity directory for 1934.

Now, given all that information, what would you say the chances of two
Jewish families, each with the same surname that appears nowhere else in
the United States and coming >from the same place were not related? Slim
to none, right.?

Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants >from
each family line did not match on a single marker!

So much for a well founded hypothesis <grin> when the definitive test
says "nope.....despite all that you are not descended >from a common
ancestor! " In addition, they bear the cohain gene, we do not.

So form your hypotheses folks....it keeps you going and focused....but when
push comes to shove and you have not found a single birth record with a
common progenitor despite all the records that have turned up,
you need the final, definitive test to prove....or in this case to disprove.

We are still left with the mystery of how such an unusual surname came to
be in two Jewish families......but that's a matter of conjecture since
there are no records on a surname designation. I guess we can play with
that one for a long time to come.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA

My sister and I have been involved in genealogy since 1995 and are blessed
with a highly unusual surname, FELDHERR, making the search incredibly
easy. It also enabled us to come forth with a hypothesis which could
only be proven by DNA testing <g>

Bear with me here....this may be as valuable a lesson to you as it has been
for me and my research right hand, my sister Eleanor Bien.

With this unusual German surname and a title to boot, we managed to find
only one other family so named in the U.S. and was also Jewish. Here's
what the research revealed:

Their ancestral origins were in the same city as ours, Rzeszow, formerly
Galicia and now Poland.
Their great uncle and our great uncle lived in the same New York City lower
east side tenement at exactly the same time and were listed in the NYC
directory.
One of their uncles was listed in the Manhattan law office of our father
in a NYCity directory for 1934.

Now, given all that information, what would you say the chances of two
Jewish families, each with the same surname that appears nowhere else in
the United States and coming >from the same place were not related? Slim
to none, right.?

Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants >from
each family line did not match on a single marker!

So much for a well founded hypothesis <grin> when the definitive test
says "nope.....despite all that you are not descended >from a common
ancestor! " In addition, they bear the cohain gene, we do not.

So form your hypotheses folks....it keeps you going and focused....but when
push comes to shove and you have not found a single birth record with a
common progenitor despite all the records that have turned up,
you need the final, definitive test to prove....or in this case to disprove.

We are still left with the mystery of how such an unusual surname came to
be in two Jewish families......but that's a matter of conjecture since
there are no records on a surname designation. I guess we can play with
that one for a long time to come.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA