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Re: Ancestry of Rose GELLER/LERNER #ukraine

Jeffrey Knisbacher <jknisbac@...>
 

Arthur,
To add to the confusion:
1. Some of the LIMONCHIKs up in Montreal changed their name to LERNER.
2. One of my cousins on my father's side married into a LERNER family from
Kamenetz (Ann and Robert Lerner now living in Del Ray Beach, FL. Have not
really had the time to delve into this, but we certainly need to.

Jeff

p.s. In the previous generation there was also a famous liberal writer
named Max LERNER (who, however, usually tried to hide his Jewish
ancestry). Do you have any idea if he is >from our area?

Original Message, in part
From: "Arthur" <arthurh@bezeqint.net>
Subject: Ancestry of Rose GELLER

I'm seeking a solution to a puzzle caused by conflicting data and stories
about my step great grandmother. Here's what I know about a grand lady
known as Reisel Rose GELLER to her descendants -
1 - She was the third wife of Gershon GOLDSMAN, who was born about 1820 in
Zhvanets, Podolia, Ukraine and he likely married her there.
2 - She bore 4 children to Gershon there - Ester 1878, Morris 1880, Dora
1883 and Hyman 1886. The children migrated to Sokolets, Podolia, and then
to Montreal, Buffalo, etc. The descendants of these children all told that
their grandmother was known as Rose GELLER, wife # 3 of Gershon GOLDSMAN.
3 - Hyman's marriage certificate of 1913 states that he was the son of the
late Alter GOLDSMAN and the late Rose GELLER.
4 - (but) The marriage certificate of Morris G. to Bertha Dosberg, 1905 in
Buffalo, states:- Father: Gershon GOLDSMAN, Mother: Rosie LERNER, (but
certainly the same Rose, a.k.a. GELLER). .
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Ancestry of Rose GELLER/LERNER #ukraine

Jeffrey Knisbacher <jknisbac@...>
 

Arthur,
To add to the confusion:
1. Some of the LIMONCHIKs up in Montreal changed their name to LERNER.
2. One of my cousins on my father's side married into a LERNER family from
Kamenetz (Ann and Robert Lerner now living in Del Ray Beach, FL. Have not
really had the time to delve into this, but we certainly need to.

Jeff

p.s. In the previous generation there was also a famous liberal writer
named Max LERNER (who, however, usually tried to hide his Jewish
ancestry). Do you have any idea if he is >from our area?

Original Message, in part
From: "Arthur" <arthurh@bezeqint.net>
Subject: Ancestry of Rose GELLER

I'm seeking a solution to a puzzle caused by conflicting data and stories
about my step great grandmother. Here's what I know about a grand lady
known as Reisel Rose GELLER to her descendants -
1 - She was the third wife of Gershon GOLDSMAN, who was born about 1820 in
Zhvanets, Podolia, Ukraine and he likely married her there.
2 - She bore 4 children to Gershon there - Ester 1878, Morris 1880, Dora
1883 and Hyman 1886. The children migrated to Sokolets, Podolia, and then
to Montreal, Buffalo, etc. The descendants of these children all told that
their grandmother was known as Rose GELLER, wife # 3 of Gershon GOLDSMAN.
3 - Hyman's marriage certificate of 1913 states that he was the son of the
late Alter GOLDSMAN and the late Rose GELLER.
4 - (but) The marriage certificate of Morris G. to Bertha Dosberg, 1905 in
Buffalo, states:- Father: Gershon GOLDSMAN, Mother: Rosie LERNER, (but
certainly the same Rose, a.k.a. GELLER). .
Anatevka #ukraine

Mark Cohen <mlcohen@...>
 

I remember hearing once that Anatevka was really the village of
Kasrilevka. I have no documentation to back it up, but just passing it
along as a possibility.

Mark Cohen

KOLCHEVNI, Buki (Kiev); FINE/FEINZILBER, Podolia gubernia;
BONDAR/BONDER, Kishinev; NEWMAN, Kishinev
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Anatevka #ukraine

Mark Cohen <mlcohen@...>
 

I remember hearing once that Anatevka was really the village of
Kasrilevka. I have no documentation to back it up, but just passing it
along as a possibility.

Mark Cohen

KOLCHEVNI, Buki (Kiev); FINE/FEINZILBER, Podolia gubernia;
BONDAR/BONDER, Kishinev; NEWMAN, Kishinev
SSDI Listings are Unstable #ukraine

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

In searching bothe the Rootsweb and Ancestry SSDI databases today, I
noticed that a relative whose records I had previously fouond in both, is
now listed in neither. Practically speaking, this suggests that if we
can't find individuals the first time around, it might pay to keep trying
every quarter or so.

Still, I find it odd. Anyone have any knowledge as to why this would
happen?

Michelle Frager,
NYC

Searching:
BELARUS (Grodno, Bobruisk, Hlusk, Kaslovich): FRAKT, WOLFSON, PADOVSCHIK,
LIFSHITZ, SHAPIRO, DINABURSKY
UKRAINE Podolia (Mogilov-Podolski, Snitkov, Zmerinka, Zamekov, Liadova,
Vinkivtsi): FRAGER/TRAGER, SEROTA, ZECKSER, SCHWEISBERG, BASSUK, TRACHTEN=
BERG

MODERATOR'S NOTE:
SURNAMES ALWAYS IN CAPS, and town names upper and lower case.
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine SSDI Listings are Unstable #ukraine

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

In searching bothe the Rootsweb and Ancestry SSDI databases today, I
noticed that a relative whose records I had previously fouond in both, is
now listed in neither. Practically speaking, this suggests that if we
can't find individuals the first time around, it might pay to keep trying
every quarter or so.

Still, I find it odd. Anyone have any knowledge as to why this would
happen?

Michelle Frager,
NYC

Searching:
BELARUS (Grodno, Bobruisk, Hlusk, Kaslovich): FRAKT, WOLFSON, PADOVSCHIK,
LIFSHITZ, SHAPIRO, DINABURSKY
UKRAINE Podolia (Mogilov-Podolski, Snitkov, Zmerinka, Zamekov, Liadova,
Vinkivtsi): FRAGER/TRAGER, SEROTA, ZECKSER, SCHWEISBERG, BASSUK, TRACHTEN=
BERG

MODERATOR'S NOTE:
SURNAMES ALWAYS IN CAPS, and town names upper and lower case.
Ancestry of Rose GELLER #ukraine

Arthur <arthurh@...>
 

Hello Genners,

I'm seeking a solution to a puzzle caused by conflicting data and stories
about my step great grandmother. Here's what I know about a grand lady
known as Reisel Rose GELLER to her descendants -

1 - She was the third wife of Gershon GOLDSMAN, who was born about 1820 in
Zhvanets, Podolia, Ukraine and he likely married her there.
2 - She bore 4 children to Gershon there - Ester 1878, Morris 1880, Dora
1883 and Hyman 1886. The children migrated to Sokolets, Podolia, and then
to Montreal, Buffalo, etc. The descendants of these children all told that
their grandmother was known as Rose GELLER, wife # 3 of Gershon GOLDSMAN.
3 - Hyman's marriage certificate of 1913 states that he was the son of the
late Alter GOLDSMAN and the late Rose GELLER.
4 - (but) The marriage certificate of Morris G. to Bertha Dosberg, 1905 in
Buffalo, states:- Father: Gershon GOLDSMAN, Mother: Rosie LERNER, (but
certainly the same Rose, a.k.a. GELLER). .
5 - Fellow researcher Jeff KNISHBACHER writes that his kin, Rukhya Rose
TISSENBAUM, daughter of Shlomo Yeshaya, married Fishel GELLER and had 5
children with him and than died (in childbirth?)..
6 - There were LERNERs in the GOLDSMAN family - Gershon's wife # 1 was
Chana whom he divorced and she married Issac LERNER and they had a son
Morris LERNER. Morris was the first husband of Dora GOLDSMAN (the same
Dora who was the 3rd child of Rose and Gershon, see 2 above). (Issac
LERNER and Rose GELLER were about the same age).

And now, the puzzle -

a. Was Rose the daughter of a TISSENBAUM or a GELLER or a LERNER family?
b. Why was the same Rose named GELLER on Hyman's certificate and LERNER on
Morris' certificate?
c. If Rose was the daughter of a TISSENBAUM , why wasn't this, her maiden
name, given on the marriage certificates?
d. Was Rose married to a GELLER and/or a LERNER before or after her
marriage to Gershon GOLDSMAN?

Can anyone shed any light on the above? Any info will be very much
appreciated by all.

Arthur HALPERIN, great grandson of alter Gershon GOLDSMAN
Holon, Israel
<arthurh@nonstop.net.il> or <arthurh@bezeqint.net>

Researching:-
GOLDSMAN, Zhvanets and Sokolets, Podolia, Ukraine, Montreal, Buffalo.
NERENBERG, Sokolets, Podolia, Ukraine, Montreal
HALPERIN, Ukraine, Moldavia
FORTGANG, Poland
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Ancestry of Rose GELLER #ukraine

Arthur <arthurh@...>
 

Hello Genners,

I'm seeking a solution to a puzzle caused by conflicting data and stories
about my step great grandmother. Here's what I know about a grand lady
known as Reisel Rose GELLER to her descendants -

1 - She was the third wife of Gershon GOLDSMAN, who was born about 1820 in
Zhvanets, Podolia, Ukraine and he likely married her there.
2 - She bore 4 children to Gershon there - Ester 1878, Morris 1880, Dora
1883 and Hyman 1886. The children migrated to Sokolets, Podolia, and then
to Montreal, Buffalo, etc. The descendants of these children all told that
their grandmother was known as Rose GELLER, wife # 3 of Gershon GOLDSMAN.
3 - Hyman's marriage certificate of 1913 states that he was the son of the
late Alter GOLDSMAN and the late Rose GELLER.
4 - (but) The marriage certificate of Morris G. to Bertha Dosberg, 1905 in
Buffalo, states:- Father: Gershon GOLDSMAN, Mother: Rosie LERNER, (but
certainly the same Rose, a.k.a. GELLER). .
5 - Fellow researcher Jeff KNISHBACHER writes that his kin, Rukhya Rose
TISSENBAUM, daughter of Shlomo Yeshaya, married Fishel GELLER and had 5
children with him and than died (in childbirth?)..
6 - There were LERNERs in the GOLDSMAN family - Gershon's wife # 1 was
Chana whom he divorced and she married Issac LERNER and they had a son
Morris LERNER. Morris was the first husband of Dora GOLDSMAN (the same
Dora who was the 3rd child of Rose and Gershon, see 2 above). (Issac
LERNER and Rose GELLER were about the same age).

And now, the puzzle -

a. Was Rose the daughter of a TISSENBAUM or a GELLER or a LERNER family?
b. Why was the same Rose named GELLER on Hyman's certificate and LERNER on
Morris' certificate?
c. If Rose was the daughter of a TISSENBAUM , why wasn't this, her maiden
name, given on the marriage certificates?
d. Was Rose married to a GELLER and/or a LERNER before or after her
marriage to Gershon GOLDSMAN?

Can anyone shed any light on the above? Any info will be very much
appreciated by all.

Arthur HALPERIN, great grandson of alter Gershon GOLDSMAN
Holon, Israel
<arthurh@nonstop.net.il> or <arthurh@bezeqint.net>

Researching:-
GOLDSMAN, Zhvanets and Sokolets, Podolia, Ukraine, Montreal, Buffalo.
NERENBERG, Sokolets, Podolia, Ukraine, Montreal
HALPERIN, Ukraine, Moldavia
FORTGANG, Poland
Re: Unraveling mysteries of tombstones #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I know my great-grandfather's father's name as it was on his death
certificate. (Samuel Males' father was Isaac Malis.) However,
great-grandfather's mother is marked unknown. I know the
great-great-grandparents lived in Warsaw. I know that my
great-great-grandfather is buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery.

The problem is figuring out who his wife was. There are 2 women buried in
the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery with our surname, Malis.
Micah

What time periode are you talking about? Talking about gggrandparents I
presume it's sometime in the 19th century. For what it's worth I can
think of a few avenues to take:

1. Can you get the death certificates of one or both MALIS women? If a
married person dies it's usually mentioned that she/he leaves behind a
widowed spouse by the name of..., often also names of children are
mentioned.

2. Knowing the burials of the two MALIS women presumably should give you
their given names, ages and years of death. That in itself might help
eliminate one of them.

3. If your great-grandfather or his siblings had daughters and you know
their given names and years of birth, those names and birth years could
give you a good clue as to which MALIS woman is "yours".

Good luck

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
JRI Poland #Poland Re: Unraveling mysteries of tombstones #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

I know my great-grandfather's father's name as it was on his death
certificate. (Samuel Males' father was Isaac Malis.) However,
great-grandfather's mother is marked unknown. I know the
great-great-grandparents lived in Warsaw. I know that my
great-great-grandfather is buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery.

The problem is figuring out who his wife was. There are 2 women buried in
the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery with our surname, Malis.
Micah

What time periode are you talking about? Talking about gggrandparents I
presume it's sometime in the 19th century. For what it's worth I can
think of a few avenues to take:

1. Can you get the death certificates of one or both MALIS women? If a
married person dies it's usually mentioned that she/he leaves behind a
widowed spouse by the name of..., often also names of children are
mentioned.

2. Knowing the burials of the two MALIS women presumably should give you
their given names, ages and years of death. That in itself might help
eliminate one of them.

3. If your great-grandfather or his siblings had daughters and you know
their given names and years of birth, those names and birth years could
give you a good clue as to which MALIS woman is "yours".

Good luck

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
Re: Unraveling mysteries of tombstones #poland

Micah Males <mmm@...>
 

Thank you for your help. My great-great-grandfather who is buried in the
Warsaw Jewish Cemetery died in 1901.

1. The problem is that, as the Nazis destroyed all records (as far as I
know), where else can I obtain records on these family members. How would I
obtain death certificates?
2. I only know of these 2 women >from the JRI on-line database. I haven't yet
ordered their tombstone pictures. Actually, on my great-great-grandfather's
tombstone it only indicates when he died and not his birth or total number
of years lived. Likewise, I don't even know for sure if my
great-great-grandfather's wife was buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery,
although I have no reason to assume otherwise.
3. My great-grandfather had 2 sisters. I only know this >from a family
portrait. However, his mom is in the picture with them + they wouldn't name
after her while she was still alive. The only "clue" raised by a 2nd cousin
of mine is that her grandmother (my father's aunt) had a 2nd name which is
the name of one of these 2 female Malis family members. So, possibly, she
was named after her grandmother >from Warsaw - then again, maybe not.

I was sort of hoping there was some outside reference, some other place
where records were kept. Any other ideas? I feel like some sort of
detective.

Thanks.

Micah

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirsten Gradel" <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
To: "Micah Males" <mmm@vasco.com>; "JRI-Poland" <jri-pl@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [jri-pl] Unraveling mysteries of tombstones


I know my great-grandfather's father's name as it was on his death
certificate. (Samuel Males' father was Isaac Malis.) However,
great-grandfather's mother is marked unknown. I know the
great-great-grandparents lived in Warsaw. I know that my
great-great-grandfather is buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery.

The problem is figuring out who his wife was. There are 2 women buried in
the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery with our surname, Malis.
Micah

What time periode are you talking about? Talking about gggrandparents I
presume it's sometime in the 19th century. For what it's worth I can
think of a few avenues to take:

1. Can you get the death certificates of one or both MALIS women? If a
married person dies it's usually mentioned that she/he leaves behind a
widowed spouse by the name of..., often also names of children are
mentioned.

2. Knowing the burials of the two MALIS women presumably should give you
their given names, ages and years of death. That in itself might help
eliminate one of them.

3. If your great-grandfather or his siblings had daughters and you know
their given names and years of birth, those names and birth years could
give you a good clue as to which MALIS woman is "yours".

Good luck

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
JRI Poland #Poland Re: Unraveling mysteries of tombstones #poland

Micah Males <mmm@...>
 

Thank you for your help. My great-great-grandfather who is buried in the
Warsaw Jewish Cemetery died in 1901.

1. The problem is that, as the Nazis destroyed all records (as far as I
know), where else can I obtain records on these family members. How would I
obtain death certificates?
2. I only know of these 2 women >from the JRI on-line database. I haven't yet
ordered their tombstone pictures. Actually, on my great-great-grandfather's
tombstone it only indicates when he died and not his birth or total number
of years lived. Likewise, I don't even know for sure if my
great-great-grandfather's wife was buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery,
although I have no reason to assume otherwise.
3. My great-grandfather had 2 sisters. I only know this >from a family
portrait. However, his mom is in the picture with them + they wouldn't name
after her while she was still alive. The only "clue" raised by a 2nd cousin
of mine is that her grandmother (my father's aunt) had a 2nd name which is
the name of one of these 2 female Malis family members. So, possibly, she
was named after her grandmother >from Warsaw - then again, maybe not.

I was sort of hoping there was some outside reference, some other place
where records were kept. Any other ideas? I feel like some sort of
detective.

Thanks.

Micah

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirsten Gradel" <kmgradel@dadlnet.dk>
To: "Micah Males" <mmm@vasco.com>; "JRI-Poland" <jri-pl@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [jri-pl] Unraveling mysteries of tombstones


I know my great-grandfather's father's name as it was on his death
certificate. (Samuel Males' father was Isaac Malis.) However,
great-grandfather's mother is marked unknown. I know the
great-great-grandparents lived in Warsaw. I know that my
great-great-grandfather is buried in the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery.

The problem is figuring out who his wife was. There are 2 women buried in
the Warsaw Jewish Cemetery with our surname, Malis.
Micah

What time periode are you talking about? Talking about gggrandparents I
presume it's sometime in the 19th century. For what it's worth I can
think of a few avenues to take:

1. Can you get the death certificates of one or both MALIS women? If a
married person dies it's usually mentioned that she/he leaves behind a
widowed spouse by the name of..., often also names of children are
mentioned.

2. Knowing the burials of the two MALIS women presumably should give you
their given names, ages and years of death. That in itself might help
eliminate one of them.

3. If your great-grandfather or his siblings had daughters and you know
their given names and years of birth, those names and birth years could
give you a good clue as to which MALIS woman is "yours".

Good luck

Kirsten Gradel, Denmark
given name translation #ukraine

NOSHOWCLC@...
 

I unfortunately only have on name in this family line - Rebecca
BOGOMOLNY. Rebecca never left the Ukraine, except to visit her sons in
the United States. They referred to her as Rebecca, but would this be
an Americanized version of her name?

Susan Curelop
KUROLAJS, BOGOMOLNY, NANKIN
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine given name translation #ukraine

NOSHOWCLC@...
 

I unfortunately only have on name in this family line - Rebecca
BOGOMOLNY. Rebecca never left the Ukraine, except to visit her sons in
the United States. They referred to her as Rebecca, but would this be
an Americanized version of her name?

Susan Curelop
KUROLAJS, BOGOMOLNY, NANKIN
GOLDBLATT WEISS in the USA #general

John & Diana Terry <jterry@...>
 

Dear Fellow Researchers

I am seeking any known Descendants of Frances GOLDBLATT WEISS who might
have lived and died in Chicago, Illinois, USA.

I know that Frances was born in England at around 1900 and went to live in
the USA in 1906. Her Mothers name was Sarah ISAACS (Daughter of Jack
SCHWARTZ of Warsaw, Poland). The Father of Frances was either an Abraham
or Samuel (Isaacs.) The Sister of Frances was Hannah (known as Anna, who
married a Louis Kaplan and who died in Chicago in 1996). Frances had two
Brothers, Jack and Abraham. Jack was married to Annette and Abraham was
married to Dora. All now deceased. Frances, Anna, Jack and Abraham Isaacs
were all born in England.

If anyone knows of this Family, please contact me privately.

Thank you for reading this Posting.

Kind regards
Diana Terry - Adelaide - South Australia
jterry@picknowl.com.au
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GOLDBLATT WEISS in the USA #general

John & Diana Terry <jterry@...>
 

Dear Fellow Researchers

I am seeking any known Descendants of Frances GOLDBLATT WEISS who might
have lived and died in Chicago, Illinois, USA.

I know that Frances was born in England at around 1900 and went to live in
the USA in 1906. Her Mothers name was Sarah ISAACS (Daughter of Jack
SCHWARTZ of Warsaw, Poland). The Father of Frances was either an Abraham
or Samuel (Isaacs.) The Sister of Frances was Hannah (known as Anna, who
married a Louis Kaplan and who died in Chicago in 1996). Frances had two
Brothers, Jack and Abraham. Jack was married to Annette and Abraham was
married to Dora. All now deceased. Frances, Anna, Jack and Abraham Isaacs
were all born in England.

If anyone knows of this Family, please contact me privately.

Thank you for reading this Posting.

Kind regards
Diana Terry - Adelaide - South Australia
jterry@picknowl.com.au
Searching families in Belarus #general

mmloeb@...
 

My brother and I are planning a trip to Belarus in September. We will be
visiting Talachin, Obo'ltz, and Smolavici. We are searching for
information about the following relatives. Chaim Cheshansky who emigrated
from Obol'tz to New Jersey around 1909, Masha Weinrub Cheshansky, who died
in Smalavici about 1910 , Zalmon David Weinrub, who died in Talachin, and
the Fagin and Manishevitz families of Obol'tz. Any help >from Jewishgen.
would be greatly appreciated.
Marcia Loeb- e mail --mmloeb@aol.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching families in Belarus #general

mmloeb@...
 

My brother and I are planning a trip to Belarus in September. We will be
visiting Talachin, Obo'ltz, and Smolavici. We are searching for
information about the following relatives. Chaim Cheshansky who emigrated
from Obol'tz to New Jersey around 1909, Masha Weinrub Cheshansky, who died
in Smalavici about 1910 , Zalmon David Weinrub, who died in Talachin, and
the Fagin and Manishevitz families of Obol'tz. Any help >from Jewishgen.
would be greatly appreciated.
Marcia Loeb- e mail --mmloeb@aol.com
Re: help needed with a few words #yizkorbooks

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

word: stubs-kompanie/stabs-kompanie (???)
Russian _shtabs_ = staff or HQ ; _kompanie_ = military
unit

words: Apashim (???), Sibiriakim (people >from Siberia,
former

_Sibiriak_ means simply a Siberian (NOT a prisoner or former
prisoner)
The first word is, I believe, one of the nationalities in
that area
but I'm at work and all my books are at home so I'll check
later.

word: fliglsarze (????)
_fligl_ is Yiddish for "wing" and here probably refers to a
"wing" or "flank"
formation in which the person was standing, but this is just
a guess.

Sonia Kovitz
Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks RE: help needed with a few words #yizkorbooks

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

word: stubs-kompanie/stabs-kompanie (???)
Russian _shtabs_ = staff or HQ ; _kompanie_ = military
unit

words: Apashim (???), Sibiriakim (people >from Siberia,
former

_Sibiriak_ means simply a Siberian (NOT a prisoner or former
prisoner)
The first word is, I believe, one of the nationalities in
that area
but I'm at work and all my books are at home so I'll check
later.

word: fliglsarze (????)
_fligl_ is Yiddish for "wing" and here probably refers to a
"wing" or "flank"
formation in which the person was standing, but this is just
a guess.

Sonia Kovitz
533041 - 533060 of 657760