Date   

SCHMULENSON #general

zerakodesh@...
 

Hello
I would like to hear >from any one related or knows anything about a
Sarah SCHMULENSON born in Bruslov in 1867 and died in London, England in
1941.
Some of those families went to South America.
Thank you for any information you might have.
Esther Feinstein Sackheim
ZeraKodesh@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SCHMULENSON #general

zerakodesh@...
 

Hello
I would like to hear >from any one related or knows anything about a
Sarah SCHMULENSON born in Bruslov in 1867 and died in London, England in
1941.
Some of those families went to South America.
Thank you for any information you might have.
Esther Feinstein Sackheim
ZeraKodesh@aol.com


Passport Reg Part 3 #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

The 1900 passport registration database is growing rapidly. I have now
received a further 2000 names and we hope to have these up on the web for
searching very soon. There are probably a further 2000 names to enter and
then we will be ready.
As mentioned before these are people who registered their passports in Riga
in 1900 and gives their places of origin many >from Lithuania ,Vitebsk and
all over the Russian Empire. It is a very exciting database as occupatiions
are also given as well as their address in Riga.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

Programme Committee
London2001 - 21st International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
8-13 July 2001 www.jewishgen.org/london2001
info.london2001@talk21.com


Latvia SIG #Latvia Passport Reg Part 3 #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

The 1900 passport registration database is growing rapidly. I have now
received a further 2000 names and we hope to have these up on the web for
searching very soon. There are probably a further 2000 names to enter and
then we will be ready.
As mentioned before these are people who registered their passports in Riga
in 1900 and gives their places of origin many >from Lithuania ,Vitebsk and
all over the Russian Empire. It is a very exciting database as occupatiions
are also given as well as their address in Riga.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

Programme Committee
London2001 - 21st International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
8-13 July 2001 www.jewishgen.org/london2001
info.london2001@talk21.com


ZELINSKI, conductor #general

SBSeales
 

Hi Folks,
Has anyone ever heard of a music conductor named ZELINSKI? Family lore
says that my maternal great-grandfather was related to him.
An additional mystery is that I have seen my maternal grandmother's name
stated as ZELINSKY on her husband's passport application >from 1906, and on
her marriage record >from the Odessa archive in the same year as ZELENY.
The above-mentioned great-grandfather traveled to Europe under the name
ZELENY. I have yet to find a Jewish ZELENY outside my known family.
Comments, anyone?

Sue Seales, North Wilkesboro,North Carolina
researching: ZELENY (ZELIONY)/ Odessa and Bershad, Ukaine
ZELONY/France ROSENTHAL/Odessa ROSENTHAL,BLUESTEIN/Wegrow and Zareby
Koscielne, Poland BOYARSKY/Grodno and Lida
FREEDMAN/Siluva, Lithuania


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ZELINSKI, conductor #general

SBSeales
 

Hi Folks,
Has anyone ever heard of a music conductor named ZELINSKI? Family lore
says that my maternal great-grandfather was related to him.
An additional mystery is that I have seen my maternal grandmother's name
stated as ZELINSKY on her husband's passport application >from 1906, and on
her marriage record >from the Odessa archive in the same year as ZELENY.
The above-mentioned great-grandfather traveled to Europe under the name
ZELENY. I have yet to find a Jewish ZELENY outside my known family.
Comments, anyone?

Sue Seales, North Wilkesboro,North Carolina
researching: ZELENY (ZELIONY)/ Odessa and Bershad, Ukaine
ZELONY/France ROSENTHAL/Odessa ROSENTHAL,BLUESTEIN/Wegrow and Zareby
Koscielne, Poland BOYARSKY/Grodno and Lida
FREEDMAN/Siluva, Lithuania


JewishGen's French SIG now ready for subscribers! #latvia

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

JewishGen is very pleased to announce that we are now hosting a French SIG
whose prime objective will be to provide a forum for questions, discussion
and lots of information about doing Jewish genealogical research in France,
French colonies and French-speaking areas such as Belgium, Luxembourg and
Switzerland.

Thanks to the efforts of Pierre Hahn and Rosanne Leeson who will coordinate
the activities of the SIG and Carol Monahan who already has the web page
online at <http://www.jewishgen.org/french>

we are ready to accept subscribers to this new group.

There are two ways you can subscribe....online or through e-mail

If you plan to do it online, go to JewishGen's home page,
<http://www.jewishgen.org> and scroll down to the Discussion Category.
Click on Special Interest Groups and you'll be taken to the subscription
page, click on Subscribe and the webform will take you through the process.

If you decide to subscribe via e-mail just send a message addressed to:

listserve@lyris.jewishgen.org and say

subscribe frenchsig (type your first name) (type your last name)

JewishGen guidelines require that full names be registered along with
e-mail addresses.

***You must confirm your subscription***

Whether your subscribe via the WebForm online or via e-mail you will
receive a message asking that you confirm the request to subscribe. All
you need to do is hit the reply button and a properly addressed e-mail
should result. Send it back to the listserve robot and you'll know you've
done it all correctly if you get a Welcome message telling you all about
the group, how to manage your subscription and the address to use in order
to post messages.

If you need any help with the process, please write to
<support@jewishgen.org> and not to me.

We wish all 'genners very good fortune in researching in the French
speaking countries on which this SIG will focus.

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Vice President, Operations


Latvia SIG #Latvia JewishGen's French SIG now ready for subscribers! #latvia

Carol Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

JewishGen is very pleased to announce that we are now hosting a French SIG
whose prime objective will be to provide a forum for questions, discussion
and lots of information about doing Jewish genealogical research in France,
French colonies and French-speaking areas such as Belgium, Luxembourg and
Switzerland.

Thanks to the efforts of Pierre Hahn and Rosanne Leeson who will coordinate
the activities of the SIG and Carol Monahan who already has the web page
online at <http://www.jewishgen.org/french>

we are ready to accept subscribers to this new group.

There are two ways you can subscribe....online or through e-mail

If you plan to do it online, go to JewishGen's home page,
<http://www.jewishgen.org> and scroll down to the Discussion Category.
Click on Special Interest Groups and you'll be taken to the subscription
page, click on Subscribe and the webform will take you through the process.

If you decide to subscribe via e-mail just send a message addressed to:

listserve@lyris.jewishgen.org and say

subscribe frenchsig (type your first name) (type your last name)

JewishGen guidelines require that full names be registered along with
e-mail addresses.

***You must confirm your subscription***

Whether your subscribe via the WebForm online or via e-mail you will
receive a message asking that you confirm the request to subscribe. All
you need to do is hit the reply button and a properly addressed e-mail
should result. Send it back to the listserve robot and you'll know you've
done it all correctly if you get a Welcome message telling you all about
the group, how to manage your subscription and the address to use in order
to post messages.

If you need any help with the process, please write to
<support@jewishgen.org> and not to me.

We wish all 'genners very good fortune in researching in the French
speaking countries on which this SIG will focus.

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Vice President, Operations


Re: Silversmith terms ! #general

Ed Flax <eflax@...>
 

Dear Ralph,

It is possible that the terms carver and gilder would apply to skilled
workers in the picture frame industry or in the manufacture of decorative
moldings.
--
Ed Flax
Member JGS Phila
ejflax@home.com

I am trying to discover what a carver and gilder did at the turn of the
century in London.

Anyone who is aware of terms in the silver-working trade - your
assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks and Chug Samach !

Ralph Salinger
Kibbutz Kfar Ruppin
Israel


What was Really going on at 155 and 157 Rivington St.? #general

Howard Margol
 

From: "Steven Garber" <shgarber@hotmail.com>

<<I'm interested in learning why so many of my relatives indicated
that they were joining other relatives at 155 Rivington Street on the
Lower East Side in NYC. The building dates >from 1902. Before that
my relatives listed 157 Rivington St. as a destination on their
passenger ship manifests. I haven't found any relatives living at
either address on any record other than those manifests.>>

The answer may lie in the following. The various shipping lines competed
aggresively for passengers. If any immigrants were refused entry into the
USA, the shipping company had to return them to Europe at the shipping
company's expense. They did everything possible to avoid this >from
happening. On the ship, agents coached the immigrants on what to expect
and what to do to avoid being sent back. Two things were of prime
importance - having an address in the USA to go to and a relative in the
USA they were going to live with.

Evidently, 155 and 157 Rivington St. were addresses given to the
immigrants to use in case they did not have a specific address to go to.
Remember, in the days before computers, the immigration authorities were
not able to cross reference the information. Also, the closer the
relationship to the person they were going to, the less chance they would
be refused entry. In 1907, the ship manifest lists my father as going to
live with his brother-in-law in Norwich, CT. The person named was a cousin
by marriage and not his brother-in-law. Since the surname was different,
brother-in-law denoted a closer relationship than cousin.

Personally, I would not put too much faith in the address or the names of
the "relatives" the immigrant was going to live with unless, of course,
you can verify it through other records.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia


Anglicizing "Leibchick" #general

buffmufin
 

Hello,
I have a relative in my family tree who everyone referred to as
"Leibchick." I'm trying to see what kind of records I can find on him,
but I'm at a total loss to figure out what his American name would have
been. (I've done some checking, and not surprisingly, can't find him
under Leibchick, or similar spellings. Similarly nothing under Leib
either.)
So, any ideas as to what a common transition name might have been? Louis?

Or anything else? We're talking about a guy born in the late 1800's,
who came to U.S. in early 1900's.
Thanks in advance for any information.

Carol Kunkis Cohn
Newport Beach, CA

Searching:
KOSSOI, PEVTSOV: Vetka, Chechersk, Belarus
SKOLNIKOF: Vetka, Belarus
KUNKIS, LEHMAN: Glubokoye, Belarus
SCHRIER, PACHTER: Yarmolinits, Kam-Podolsk, Ukraine
LEIBOWITZ, GRUZINSKY: Kelme, Lithuania


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Silversmith terms ! #general

Ed Flax <eflax@...>
 

Dear Ralph,

It is possible that the terms carver and gilder would apply to skilled
workers in the picture frame industry or in the manufacture of decorative
moldings.
--
Ed Flax
Member JGS Phila
ejflax@home.com

I am trying to discover what a carver and gilder did at the turn of the
century in London.

Anyone who is aware of terms in the silver-working trade - your
assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks and Chug Samach !

Ralph Salinger
Kibbutz Kfar Ruppin
Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen What was Really going on at 155 and 157 Rivington St.? #general

Howard Margol
 

From: "Steven Garber" <shgarber@hotmail.com>

<<I'm interested in learning why so many of my relatives indicated
that they were joining other relatives at 155 Rivington Street on the
Lower East Side in NYC. The building dates >from 1902. Before that
my relatives listed 157 Rivington St. as a destination on their
passenger ship manifests. I haven't found any relatives living at
either address on any record other than those manifests.>>

The answer may lie in the following. The various shipping lines competed
aggresively for passengers. If any immigrants were refused entry into the
USA, the shipping company had to return them to Europe at the shipping
company's expense. They did everything possible to avoid this >from
happening. On the ship, agents coached the immigrants on what to expect
and what to do to avoid being sent back. Two things were of prime
importance - having an address in the USA to go to and a relative in the
USA they were going to live with.

Evidently, 155 and 157 Rivington St. were addresses given to the
immigrants to use in case they did not have a specific address to go to.
Remember, in the days before computers, the immigration authorities were
not able to cross reference the information. Also, the closer the
relationship to the person they were going to, the less chance they would
be refused entry. In 1907, the ship manifest lists my father as going to
live with his brother-in-law in Norwich, CT. The person named was a cousin
by marriage and not his brother-in-law. Since the surname was different,
brother-in-law denoted a closer relationship than cousin.

Personally, I would not put too much faith in the address or the names of
the "relatives" the immigrant was going to live with unless, of course,
you can verify it through other records.

Howard Margol
Atlanta, Georgia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Anglicizing "Leibchick" #general

buffmufin
 

Hello,
I have a relative in my family tree who everyone referred to as
"Leibchick." I'm trying to see what kind of records I can find on him,
but I'm at a total loss to figure out what his American name would have
been. (I've done some checking, and not surprisingly, can't find him
under Leibchick, or similar spellings. Similarly nothing under Leib
either.)
So, any ideas as to what a common transition name might have been? Louis?

Or anything else? We're talking about a guy born in the late 1800's,
who came to U.S. in early 1900's.
Thanks in advance for any information.

Carol Kunkis Cohn
Newport Beach, CA

Searching:
KOSSOI, PEVTSOV: Vetka, Chechersk, Belarus
SKOLNIKOF: Vetka, Belarus
KUNKIS, LEHMAN: Glubokoye, Belarus
SCHRIER, PACHTER: Yarmolinits, Kam-Podolsk, Ukraine
LEIBOWITZ, GRUZINSKY: Kelme, Lithuania


Dedication of Hungarian Torah #hungary

Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>
 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0BD59.90B69E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My synagogue, Chevrei Tzedek, which is affiliated with the Conservative =
movement, and which is located in Baltimore, Maryland has recently =
rescued and purchased a Torah >from Derecske, Hungary. It is about 87 =
years old. This town had about 1500 Jews in 1944. It's one synagogue =
had 7 Torah scrolls, 5 of which were destroyed completely. On Sunday, =
May 20, 2001, starting at 1PM, we are having a Hachnasat Torah =
celebration to re-dedicate the Torah. All are welcome.
We are actually starting a few blocks away so that we can parade through =
the streets with the new Torah and with our other Sifrei Torah, and then =
a Sofer will darken a few letters, and we will have another Kosher Torah =
for our shul. =20
If you wish to read about the synagogue, you may consult the website, =
which is www.chevreitzedek.org
I hope this is an appropriate use of this listserve. Because of the =
importance of the rescue and rededication of this Torah to Hungarian =
survivors and their descendants, I wanted to post this to all.
Have a Kosher Pesach.
Irwin Weiss
irwin@irwinweiss.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Dedication of Hungarian Torah #hungary

Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>
 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0BD59.90B69E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My synagogue, Chevrei Tzedek, which is affiliated with the Conservative =
movement, and which is located in Baltimore, Maryland has recently =
rescued and purchased a Torah >from Derecske, Hungary. It is about 87 =
years old. This town had about 1500 Jews in 1944. It's one synagogue =
had 7 Torah scrolls, 5 of which were destroyed completely. On Sunday, =
May 20, 2001, starting at 1PM, we are having a Hachnasat Torah =
celebration to re-dedicate the Torah. All are welcome.
We are actually starting a few blocks away so that we can parade through =
the streets with the new Torah and with our other Sifrei Torah, and then =
a Sofer will darken a few letters, and we will have another Kosher Torah =
for our shul. =20
If you wish to read about the synagogue, you may consult the website, =
which is www.chevreitzedek.org
I hope this is an appropriate use of this listserve. Because of the =
importance of the rescue and rededication of this Torah to Hungarian =
survivors and their descendants, I wanted to post this to all.
Have a Kosher Pesach.
Irwin Weiss
irwin@irwinweiss.com


Re: Hungarian vs. Yiddish - a Clarification #hungary

Mark Benisz <MBenisz@...>
 

I think this is a topic worthy of some clarification if you will bear with
me.
When speaking of Hungarian Jewry we must distinguish between Neolog and
Orthodox (>from mid 19th century, when the schism took place) and Oberland
(western, germanized Hungary)and Unterland (eastern hassidic influenced
Hungary).
I refer everyone to a wonderful book by Jacob Katz called A House Divided -
Orthodoxy and Schism in the Nineteenth Century Central European Jewry. This
is a must read for anyone who wants to have an understanding of the events
that took place in Hungary and Germany that continue to effect Judaism
today, in every country around the world. The author addresses language
spoken both by the Rabbis and common folk in Oberland and Unterland.
Jews >from Unterland (orthodox) were more likely to use Yiddish as the
language at home than Hungarian or German, although in later generations
they might have been fluent in both.
Jews >from Oberland (orthodox) originally spoke Yiddish Deutsch, or Western
Yiddish, a distinct Yiddish dialect. The use of this language died out in
Hungary (as it did in Germany) and it was replaced with German. Later
generations (post revolution) of Jews spoke Hungarian until this became the
first language of many Oberland Jews. It is interesting to note that most
Rabbis continued to speak and preach in Yiddish Deutsch, and to this very
day the Rabbi of the Orthodox congregation in Budapest (Kazincy utca) will
only preach in Yiddish. It is also noteworthy that Rabbi Koppel Reich who
was Rabbi of this congregation in the early part of this century and was a
member of the house of Lords, spoke no Hungarian.
Among The Neolog Jews German and/or Hugarian were spoken originally, and
later Hungarian became the first language. An interesting contrast to Rabbi
Koppel Reich was his Neolog counterpart the chief Rabbi of Szeged Rabbi
Emmanuel Loew who died in the Budapest ghettoin 1944 after being deported
from Szeged (and was saved >from Auschwitz by Horthy) wrote extensively in
German (Die Flora und Fauna der Juden) and Hungarian, but was the first
Rabbi to introduce Hungarian language hymns into the religious service and
when designing the famous Szeged synagogue had am inscription written above
the ark in Hugarian (still there today).
All of the above can be seen in the Neolog cemeteries. The older stones are
in Hebrew only, then comes German and Hebrew, then Hungarian and Hebrew and
today it is only Hungarian.
I could go on and on, but I will spare you. Anyone who feels I am mistaken
is welcome to comment. I only wrote so much because the language subject is
such an integral part of our history which in my opinion has so profoundly
impacted Judaism today.
I wish everyone a Happy Passover,
MArk Benisz
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@safeaccess.com>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:23 PM
Subject: Hungarian vs. Yiddish - a Clarification


After receiving several inquiries on my posting I realized that I was not
clear in my original message. I did not mean to make a generalities about
the many Jews in Hungary - that would be a veritable impossibility. I
simply
reported on the interviews I had conducted, which although were mostly of
religious Jews >from only a handful of towns and cities and thus not a true
scientific representative, I felt would be of interest to the group.

Regards,

Avrumy Heschel

Brooklyn NY


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian vs. Yiddish - a Clarification #hungary

Mark Benisz <MBenisz@...>
 

I think this is a topic worthy of some clarification if you will bear with
me.
When speaking of Hungarian Jewry we must distinguish between Neolog and
Orthodox (>from mid 19th century, when the schism took place) and Oberland
(western, germanized Hungary)and Unterland (eastern hassidic influenced
Hungary).
I refer everyone to a wonderful book by Jacob Katz called A House Divided -
Orthodoxy and Schism in the Nineteenth Century Central European Jewry. This
is a must read for anyone who wants to have an understanding of the events
that took place in Hungary and Germany that continue to effect Judaism
today, in every country around the world. The author addresses language
spoken both by the Rabbis and common folk in Oberland and Unterland.
Jews >from Unterland (orthodox) were more likely to use Yiddish as the
language at home than Hungarian or German, although in later generations
they might have been fluent in both.
Jews >from Oberland (orthodox) originally spoke Yiddish Deutsch, or Western
Yiddish, a distinct Yiddish dialect. The use of this language died out in
Hungary (as it did in Germany) and it was replaced with German. Later
generations (post revolution) of Jews spoke Hungarian until this became the
first language of many Oberland Jews. It is interesting to note that most
Rabbis continued to speak and preach in Yiddish Deutsch, and to this very
day the Rabbi of the Orthodox congregation in Budapest (Kazincy utca) will
only preach in Yiddish. It is also noteworthy that Rabbi Koppel Reich who
was Rabbi of this congregation in the early part of this century and was a
member of the house of Lords, spoke no Hungarian.
Among The Neolog Jews German and/or Hugarian were spoken originally, and
later Hungarian became the first language. An interesting contrast to Rabbi
Koppel Reich was his Neolog counterpart the chief Rabbi of Szeged Rabbi
Emmanuel Loew who died in the Budapest ghettoin 1944 after being deported
from Szeged (and was saved >from Auschwitz by Horthy) wrote extensively in
German (Die Flora und Fauna der Juden) and Hungarian, but was the first
Rabbi to introduce Hungarian language hymns into the religious service and
when designing the famous Szeged synagogue had am inscription written above
the ark in Hugarian (still there today).
All of the above can be seen in the Neolog cemeteries. The older stones are
in Hebrew only, then comes German and Hebrew, then Hungarian and Hebrew and
today it is only Hungarian.
I could go on and on, but I will spare you. Anyone who feels I am mistaken
is welcome to comment. I only wrote so much because the language subject is
such an integral part of our history which in my opinion has so profoundly
impacted Judaism today.
I wish everyone a Happy Passover,
MArk Benisz
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@safeaccess.com>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:23 PM
Subject: Hungarian vs. Yiddish - a Clarification


After receiving several inquiries on my posting I realized that I was not
clear in my original message. I did not mean to make a generalities about
the many Jews in Hungary - that would be a veritable impossibility. I
simply
reported on the interviews I had conducted, which although were mostly of
religious Jews >from only a handful of towns and cities and thus not a true
scientific representative, I felt would be of interest to the group.

Regards,

Avrumy Heschel

Brooklyn NY


Fw: Yiddish in Hungary #hungary

maja <maja@...>
 

Since it seems, there is a common interest in the subject, I forward the
comment, that I sent before to Debbi.
Happy pesach for everybody
Miryam and
David Gordon
Rehovot,
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: maja <maja@netvision.net.il>
To: korman3 <korman3@ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: Yiddish in Hungary


Dear Debbi,
At the time of the Hungarian great revolution, in 1848 there were
less, than 50 thousand Jews in the territory of Hungary. At the end of
the
19th century their number increased near to 1 million. Most of the
"newcomers" came >from the area of Galicia through the North-Eastern
borders
of the country. This rapid flow of Jews was mainly due to the steps toward
equal rights made by consecutive governments of Hungary, before, under and
after the great revoltion. After 1867, the year of the compromise between
the Austrians and Hungary, the Jews won almost complete freedom.
The Hungarians, in compensation required, that the Jews would
not represent a national minority, but would declare in every possible
forum, that they are Hungarians (of Israelite religion).
The Jews - mainly those, who belonged to the neolog congregation, but the
orthodox cmmunities too - took this offer very seriously and
became enthuusiastic Hungarians. Thus, for example, while in 1870 the
dominant languege among the orthodox Galician newcomers was the yiddish,
in
1890 the yiddish was spoken only in the "cheders" and the everyday
language,
even among themselfs
became Hungarian - as a gratitude towards the "beloved motherland". After
WWI, it was an exception to hear yiddish
talk within the (restricted) territory of Hungary. Most of the Jews spoke
German, since that was the language of education in that part of Europe,
though, mainly as second language. One can learn more on the subject, e.g
from the book of Raphael Patai: The Jews of Hungary (Wane State University
Press, 1996)
As a personal example, all my grandparents were >from central and
Southwestern Hungary, my wife's grandparents were >from the Norther and
Western regions, some of them were religious, (my
uncle e.g was a "rashecol" in an orthdox community) but none of them
understood a word in yiddish.
The lack of the knowledge of yiddish almost resulted in the death of
Miryam's family, because the Jewish soldiers of the libertor Red Army
could
not even imagine, that there are Jews who don't understand yiddish.
Chag Pesach Sameah

David Gordon



Hungary SIG #Hungary Fw: Yiddish in Hungary #hungary

maja <maja@...>
 

Since it seems, there is a common interest in the subject, I forward the
comment, that I sent before to Debbi.
Happy pesach for everybody
Miryam and
David Gordon
Rehovot,
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: maja <maja@netvision.net.il>
To: korman3 <korman3@ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: Yiddish in Hungary


Dear Debbi,
At the time of the Hungarian great revolution, in 1848 there were
less, than 50 thousand Jews in the territory of Hungary. At the end of
the
19th century their number increased near to 1 million. Most of the
"newcomers" came >from the area of Galicia through the North-Eastern
borders
of the country. This rapid flow of Jews was mainly due to the steps toward
equal rights made by consecutive governments of Hungary, before, under and
after the great revoltion. After 1867, the year of the compromise between
the Austrians and Hungary, the Jews won almost complete freedom.
The Hungarians, in compensation required, that the Jews would
not represent a national minority, but would declare in every possible
forum, that they are Hungarians (of Israelite religion).
The Jews - mainly those, who belonged to the neolog congregation, but the
orthodox cmmunities too - took this offer very seriously and
became enthuusiastic Hungarians. Thus, for example, while in 1870 the
dominant languege among the orthodox Galician newcomers was the yiddish,
in
1890 the yiddish was spoken only in the "cheders" and the everyday
language,
even among themselfs
became Hungarian - as a gratitude towards the "beloved motherland". After
WWI, it was an exception to hear yiddish
talk within the (restricted) territory of Hungary. Most of the Jews spoke
German, since that was the language of education in that part of Europe,
though, mainly as second language. One can learn more on the subject, e.g
from the book of Raphael Patai: The Jews of Hungary (Wane State University
Press, 1996)
As a personal example, all my grandparents were >from central and
Southwestern Hungary, my wife's grandparents were >from the Norther and
Western regions, some of them were religious, (my
uncle e.g was a "rashecol" in an orthdox community) but none of them
understood a word in yiddish.
The lack of the knowledge of yiddish almost resulted in the death of
Miryam's family, because the Jewish soldiers of the libertor Red Army
could
not even imagine, that there are Jews who don't understand yiddish.
Chag Pesach Sameah

David Gordon