Date   

H-sig: language & music #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Thank you to Peter and Bob and others for the interesting messages
yesterday about language and music.

I have three questions. My great-grandparents emigrated in 1880 from
Abaujszanto to New York City where they stayed. The 1900 census
indicates that my great-grandmother spoke English but was illiterate. The
1910 census says she spoke "Magyar". The 1920 census says her "mother
tongue" was "Jewish".

What language or, most likely, languages would she have spoken in Hungary
before she left...(she was born in 1842 in Saturaljaujhely)?
Did "Jewish" for "mother tongue" mean Hebrew or Yiddish to the census
takers in 1920? Would she have spoken one of them, or was that an
automatic response to "Jewish" on the part of the census taker?
As far as illiteracy, that probably means illiterate in English. At the
time she grew up in Hungary, would she have received any kind of education
at all, or was that only for boys?

Any answers will be helpful...I find this all fascinating. I admire that
very brave woman so much for the life she lived...her descendants have
certainly gone farther and wider than she could have possibly dreamed.

Thanks,

Faith
N.H.


Hungary SIG #Hungary H-sig: language & music #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Thank you to Peter and Bob and others for the interesting messages
yesterday about language and music.

I have three questions. My great-grandparents emigrated in 1880 from
Abaujszanto to New York City where they stayed. The 1900 census
indicates that my great-grandmother spoke English but was illiterate. The
1910 census says she spoke "Magyar". The 1920 census says her "mother
tongue" was "Jewish".

What language or, most likely, languages would she have spoken in Hungary
before she left...(she was born in 1842 in Saturaljaujhely)?
Did "Jewish" for "mother tongue" mean Hebrew or Yiddish to the census
takers in 1920? Would she have spoken one of them, or was that an
automatic response to "Jewish" on the part of the census taker?
As far as illiteracy, that probably means illiterate in English. At the
time she grew up in Hungary, would she have received any kind of education
at all, or was that only for boys?

Any answers will be helpful...I find this all fascinating. I admire that
very brave woman so much for the life she lived...her descendants have
certainly gone farther and wider than she could have possibly dreamed.

Thanks,

Faith
N.H.


Happy Passover Part II #hungary

Glen Strauss <glen.s@...>
 

Dear 'genners

A few weeks ago we sent an e-mail wishing you all a Happy Passover.
The same e-mail also went to nearly 50,000 others who are using JewishGen.
Only 246 people responded with a contribution to help support JewishGen,
the institution which is available to help you connect with your heritage
and
document your family history.


Although you've taken that important first step of registering your family
names
in the JGFF we hope you are taking advantage of the many other services and
projects that JewishGen offers to increase the possibility that you will
connect with
family members. We encourage you to participate fully in one of the
greatest grass
roots ever conceived to preserve our precious history for future
generations.

For example, JewishGen offers:

· more than 30 focused mailing lists where you can ask questions, and seek
guidance on specific areas of interest. The JewishGen Discussion Group
provides a forum for beginner and advanced research, a place to share your
research challenges, a place to ask questions and a place to make
connections with thousands of people world wide. Visit JewishGen's home
page at <http://www.jewishgen.org>, and see the listings in the Discussion
category. Click
on the links to be taken to the subscription sites. Don't miss out on the
daily sharing, the information, and the opportunity to provide and receive
assistance >from any one of the thousands of JewishGen participants, all
known for their willingness to guide, support and share.


· 286 Yizkor Book translations on line at JewishGen and more awaiting your
input and support. Our only limitations in what we can do are the degrees
to which you are willing to support those efforts. Visit the Yizkor Book
Translation site at <http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/> There might just be a
wealth of information about your ancestral city or town and perhaps even
your own family.


· over 5 million records available for you to explore. Begin by visiting
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/>

Although 5 million records may seem like a lot, there are hundreds of
millions more that need documenting: in cemeteries, in archives in Eastern
Europe... in family histories of survivors who make up the current Jewish
communities in Eastern Europe... and in millions of records stored in the
archives in Yad Vashem.

Both a huge burial records database and placing Yad Vashem records online
are on the top of JewishGen's "wish list" for this year. The work is already
underway in the Online Worldwide Burial Registry (OWBR) and the first of
the Yad Vashem databases. However, to bring all these records forth and to
provide them to the Jewish community through our website we absolutely
must have greater support >from the people like yourselves who have shown
interest in what we are doing. Make no mistake, new projects will only
happen if each and every person just like yourself, using our programs and
services, makes the commitment to support this effort financially to the
best of their ability. Only then will we achieve major milestones in the
preservation of our family histories and in our heritage. Only then are
you likely to find that still missing piece to your personal puzzle.

Additional information goes online only as data is acquired, transliterated
and added into data entry templates. There are hundreds of volunteers
making all this happen. They give tirelessly of their skills, their energy,
and their time. But to keep the wheels of progress spinning, we need your
financial support. It is critical that we and all these volunteers know
that the work they are performing is appreciated, is used, and is
deserving of your support. Only those who use the many facets of JewishGen
and are willing to support it financially can convey the message we who
operate behind the scenes and our volunteers worldwide need to hear.


If you haven't already done so, now is the time to show us that what we are
doing is appreciated, utilized to the fullest and worthy of your support.
And, if you have supported us in the past, please consider renewing your
gift today. The most convenient way to make a donation is to visit our
secure credit card server where you make a donation in dollars and your
credit card will bill you in your local currency if you reside outside the
United States. The secure server is at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/contribute.html> If you prefer
you can mail your contribution directly to our new address

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Drive, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573

Thanks in advance for your support and our best wishes for a Happy Passover.

Susan King Glen Strauss
President Vice President


Re: Muszikas and Pesach #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

I have seen Muszikas in concert in a small venue and they are great! The
concert that I saw did not focus on Jewish music either.

As for Pesach, my grandmother was born in Budapest, and her mother in
western Slovakia. We use the same recipe as was posted, but if the wine
is sweet, we skip the sugar or honey.

Debbi


Hungary SIG #Hungary Happy Passover Part II #hungary

Glen Strauss <glen.s@...>
 

Dear 'genners

A few weeks ago we sent an e-mail wishing you all a Happy Passover.
The same e-mail also went to nearly 50,000 others who are using JewishGen.
Only 246 people responded with a contribution to help support JewishGen,
the institution which is available to help you connect with your heritage
and
document your family history.


Although you've taken that important first step of registering your family
names
in the JGFF we hope you are taking advantage of the many other services and
projects that JewishGen offers to increase the possibility that you will
connect with
family members. We encourage you to participate fully in one of the
greatest grass
roots ever conceived to preserve our precious history for future
generations.

For example, JewishGen offers:

· more than 30 focused mailing lists where you can ask questions, and seek
guidance on specific areas of interest. The JewishGen Discussion Group
provides a forum for beginner and advanced research, a place to share your
research challenges, a place to ask questions and a place to make
connections with thousands of people world wide. Visit JewishGen's home
page at <http://www.jewishgen.org>, and see the listings in the Discussion
category. Click
on the links to be taken to the subscription sites. Don't miss out on the
daily sharing, the information, and the opportunity to provide and receive
assistance >from any one of the thousands of JewishGen participants, all
known for their willingness to guide, support and share.


· 286 Yizkor Book translations on line at JewishGen and more awaiting your
input and support. Our only limitations in what we can do are the degrees
to which you are willing to support those efforts. Visit the Yizkor Book
Translation site at <http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/> There might just be a
wealth of information about your ancestral city or town and perhaps even
your own family.


· over 5 million records available for you to explore. Begin by visiting
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/>

Although 5 million records may seem like a lot, there are hundreds of
millions more that need documenting: in cemeteries, in archives in Eastern
Europe... in family histories of survivors who make up the current Jewish
communities in Eastern Europe... and in millions of records stored in the
archives in Yad Vashem.

Both a huge burial records database and placing Yad Vashem records online
are on the top of JewishGen's "wish list" for this year. The work is already
underway in the Online Worldwide Burial Registry (OWBR) and the first of
the Yad Vashem databases. However, to bring all these records forth and to
provide them to the Jewish community through our website we absolutely
must have greater support >from the people like yourselves who have shown
interest in what we are doing. Make no mistake, new projects will only
happen if each and every person just like yourself, using our programs and
services, makes the commitment to support this effort financially to the
best of their ability. Only then will we achieve major milestones in the
preservation of our family histories and in our heritage. Only then are
you likely to find that still missing piece to your personal puzzle.

Additional information goes online only as data is acquired, transliterated
and added into data entry templates. There are hundreds of volunteers
making all this happen. They give tirelessly of their skills, their energy,
and their time. But to keep the wheels of progress spinning, we need your
financial support. It is critical that we and all these volunteers know
that the work they are performing is appreciated, is used, and is
deserving of your support. Only those who use the many facets of JewishGen
and are willing to support it financially can convey the message we who
operate behind the scenes and our volunteers worldwide need to hear.


If you haven't already done so, now is the time to show us that what we are
doing is appreciated, utilized to the fullest and worthy of your support.
And, if you have supported us in the past, please consider renewing your
gift today. The most convenient way to make a donation is to visit our
secure credit card server where you make a donation in dollars and your
credit card will bill you in your local currency if you reside outside the
United States. The secure server is at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/contribute.html> If you prefer
you can mail your contribution directly to our new address

JewishGen, Inc.
2951 Marina Bay Drive, Suite 130-472
League City, TX 77573

Thanks in advance for your support and our best wishes for a Happy Passover.

Susan King Glen Strauss
President Vice President


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Muszikas and Pesach #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

I have seen Muszikas in concert in a small venue and they are great! The
concert that I saw did not focus on Jewish music either.

As for Pesach, my grandmother was born in Budapest, and her mother in
western Slovakia. We use the same recipe as was posted, but if the wine
is sweet, we skip the sugar or honey.

Debbi


Re: Hungarian or Yiddish #hungary

tomertomer22@...
 

--------=_WallaWebMail_42865_7548_Part_1000
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear H-siggers,
Just to add more to the topic:
My grandparents, born around 1920, and lived in
Szombathely, Budapest, Ungvar, Berehovo and Munkacs
spoke Hungarian as first language (even at home).
They were >from religious families but also Zionists
so they have also learnt Hebrew.
At about the same time, my grandmother's grandfather,
who died around 1920, corresponded in YIDDISH-DEUTSCH
as I see it in letters untill the 1920's.
(There was a discussion about Yiddish-Deutsch in the
past-see the Sig's archive)
He was born in a village around Bratislava (were his family was speaking
the same language) and later became the (orthodox) rabbi of Nameszto
(Namestovo, today) in Northern Slovakia.
My grandmother still remember that in some places in the Burgenland
area there were people who used Yiddish-duetsch (it was in the
1920's and 1930's).
She also thinks (but not 100% sure) that in Slovakia they used
either German or Yiddish-Deutsch.
Anyways, we must remember that in case like this we should
ask not only what was the first language, but what was the first
when *speaking to other Jews* because they weren't speaking
Yiddish to non-Jews...
Hope that helps!
Have a happy and Kosher Pesach!
Tomer Brunner, Israel.


New Member Posting #hungary

Joyce Eastman <wldwoman1@...>
 

As a new member of the Hungarian SIG I would like to post the family names I
am researching.

FRANKL, WEISZ - Vag-Ujhely, Hungary (currently located in Slovakia)

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL USA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Hungarian or Yiddish #hungary

tomertomer22@...
 

--------=_WallaWebMail_42865_7548_Part_1000
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear H-siggers,
Just to add more to the topic:
My grandparents, born around 1920, and lived in
Szombathely, Budapest, Ungvar, Berehovo and Munkacs
spoke Hungarian as first language (even at home).
They were >from religious families but also Zionists
so they have also learnt Hebrew.
At about the same time, my grandmother's grandfather,
who died around 1920, corresponded in YIDDISH-DEUTSCH
as I see it in letters untill the 1920's.
(There was a discussion about Yiddish-Deutsch in the
past-see the Sig's archive)
He was born in a village around Bratislava (were his family was speaking
the same language) and later became the (orthodox) rabbi of Nameszto
(Namestovo, today) in Northern Slovakia.
My grandmother still remember that in some places in the Burgenland
area there were people who used Yiddish-duetsch (it was in the
1920's and 1930's).
She also thinks (but not 100% sure) that in Slovakia they used
either German or Yiddish-Deutsch.
Anyways, we must remember that in case like this we should
ask not only what was the first language, but what was the first
when *speaking to other Jews* because they weren't speaking
Yiddish to non-Jews...
Hope that helps!
Have a happy and Kosher Pesach!
Tomer Brunner, Israel.


Hungary SIG #Hungary New Member Posting #hungary

Joyce Eastman <wldwoman1@...>
 

As a new member of the Hungarian SIG I would like to post the family names I
am researching.

FRANKL, WEISZ - Vag-Ujhely, Hungary (currently located in Slovakia)

Joyce Eastman
Orange City, FL USA


Re Hungarian- Yiddish #hungary

Martin Kronman <mkronman@...>
 

While I am not of Hungarian lineage, there is a branch of the KRONMAN family
which originated in Miskolc and I had been interested in the issue of what
their spoken language might be. I had traced the lineage >from Abraham
Kronman who was born in Miskolc in 1842. Vertually the entire family
emigrated to the United States between 1880 and 1890; The tree that I
developed contains more than 600 individuals. The Hungarian Kronmans very
likely were part of the Polish Kronman family which lived in towns centered
aound Lodz and Zdunska Wola. The Hungarian Kronmans were orthodox and spoke
both Yiddish, German and probably Hungarian as well. Interestingly enough in
one of the branches of the Hungarian Kronman, conversation in the home when
they came to theUnited States was English. This was done deliberately to
promote their children's learning the vernacular.

The research I was doing turned up a very important book for
Hungarian-Jewish researchers. Its title is "Bridging Three Worlds -
Hungarian-Jewish Americans, 1848-1914" written by Robert Perlman and
published by the University of Massachusetts Press in 1991. Unfortunately, I
believe it is out of print. Perlman addresses the issue of language in some
detail and he also cites Raphael Patai in depth. There are two aspects of
this that I would like to mention. He talks about the establishment of the
synagogue Ohab Zedig in 1872 to -1873. He indicates that initially the
rabbi gave sermons in German, but as the years went by and the backgound of
the Hungarian Jews who became members had changed and there were complaints
that many people didn't understand German. They therefore began to on
alternate weeks to have sermons in German and ENGLISH, not Yiddish".

Another interesting aspe ct of Perlman's addressing the issue of language
had to do with the character of the Hungarian dialect of Yiddish. He states
that while there were words of Hebrew origin in Hungarian Yiddish, there
were fewer of them than in the standard Yiddish spoken in Slavic lands.
Words of Magyar crept in replacing some of the common Yiddish words.
Elsewhere in the book Perlman talks about the gulf between Hungarian Jews
and Slavic Jews who lived on emigration to New York, such that Hungarian
Jews often prefered the company of Hungarian gentile immigrants to Jewish
ones who spoke standard Yiddish. It is possible that the gulf had something
to do with their not being able to communicate very well with each other. It
meant also that Yiddish writen iterature which evolved in Poland and
elsewhere would not have been accessible to Hungarian Jews.

Perlmans's book is a gold mine for anyone who wants a historical background
for the Jewish experience in Hungary as well as the socialogy of their life
when they came to the United States


Martin Kronman
Syracuse, NY
Researching: KRONMAN in the United States, Poland, Hungary and the
Ukraine.
KRONMAN "varients" such as GROMAN, KROMAN, Kraman, Kramen, Kraiman, etc in
the United States, Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re Hungarian- Yiddish #hungary

Martin Kronman <mkronman@...>
 

While I am not of Hungarian lineage, there is a branch of the KRONMAN family
which originated in Miskolc and I had been interested in the issue of what
their spoken language might be. I had traced the lineage >from Abraham
Kronman who was born in Miskolc in 1842. Vertually the entire family
emigrated to the United States between 1880 and 1890; The tree that I
developed contains more than 600 individuals. The Hungarian Kronmans very
likely were part of the Polish Kronman family which lived in towns centered
aound Lodz and Zdunska Wola. The Hungarian Kronmans were orthodox and spoke
both Yiddish, German and probably Hungarian as well. Interestingly enough in
one of the branches of the Hungarian Kronman, conversation in the home when
they came to theUnited States was English. This was done deliberately to
promote their children's learning the vernacular.

The research I was doing turned up a very important book for
Hungarian-Jewish researchers. Its title is "Bridging Three Worlds -
Hungarian-Jewish Americans, 1848-1914" written by Robert Perlman and
published by the University of Massachusetts Press in 1991. Unfortunately, I
believe it is out of print. Perlman addresses the issue of language in some
detail and he also cites Raphael Patai in depth. There are two aspects of
this that I would like to mention. He talks about the establishment of the
synagogue Ohab Zedig in 1872 to -1873. He indicates that initially the
rabbi gave sermons in German, but as the years went by and the backgound of
the Hungarian Jews who became members had changed and there were complaints
that many people didn't understand German. They therefore began to on
alternate weeks to have sermons in German and ENGLISH, not Yiddish".

Another interesting aspe ct of Perlman's addressing the issue of language
had to do with the character of the Hungarian dialect of Yiddish. He states
that while there were words of Hebrew origin in Hungarian Yiddish, there
were fewer of them than in the standard Yiddish spoken in Slavic lands.
Words of Magyar crept in replacing some of the common Yiddish words.
Elsewhere in the book Perlman talks about the gulf between Hungarian Jews
and Slavic Jews who lived on emigration to New York, such that Hungarian
Jews often prefered the company of Hungarian gentile immigrants to Jewish
ones who spoke standard Yiddish. It is possible that the gulf had something
to do with their not being able to communicate very well with each other. It
meant also that Yiddish writen iterature which evolved in Poland and
elsewhere would not have been accessible to Hungarian Jews.

Perlmans's book is a gold mine for anyone who wants a historical background
for the Jewish experience in Hungary as well as the socialogy of their life
when they came to the United States


Martin Kronman
Syracuse, NY
Researching: KRONMAN in the United States, Poland, Hungary and the
Ukraine.
KRONMAN "varients" such as GROMAN, KROMAN, Kraman, Kramen, Kraiman, etc in
the United States, Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine


H-sig: translation #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

In answer to my request for translation for the occupation that appeared to
be "supher", I received several responses, all different. They are
interesting, so I thought I would share with them with you.

from Budapest: "Suszter is a German-origin word that was used also in
Hungarian text
written with SZ in the middle, that pronaunced as 'S' 'several'
Its meaning is shue-maker, shue-reparer rather."

"Perhaps a perversion of the word , Sofer, or jewish
scribe." and also "The profession is 'soyfer' >from the Hebrew
word 'sopher'. A soyfer is a
ritual scribe who writes out sacred documents in special Hebrew
calligraphy. "

"SAFAR=EXPEDITER"

Thank you to all you wonderful people who have responded. I guess I have
to make a choice! I'm not sure what an "expediter" would have been in
1869. As for the "sofer" or "soyfer" explanation, would that have been
possible for someone whose father's occupation has been translated for me
as a "day worker" (laborer)? His sister married a tinsmith. If anyone has
any more ideas, I'd be happy to listen.

Faith Gardner

Thank you to all who responded...I guess I shall pick the one I like best!


Hungary SIG #Hungary H-sig: translation #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

In answer to my request for translation for the occupation that appeared to
be "supher", I received several responses, all different. They are
interesting, so I thought I would share with them with you.

from Budapest: "Suszter is a German-origin word that was used also in
Hungarian text
written with SZ in the middle, that pronaunced as 'S' 'several'
Its meaning is shue-maker, shue-reparer rather."

"Perhaps a perversion of the word , Sofer, or jewish
scribe." and also "The profession is 'soyfer' >from the Hebrew
word 'sopher'. A soyfer is a
ritual scribe who writes out sacred documents in special Hebrew
calligraphy. "

"SAFAR=EXPEDITER"

Thank you to all you wonderful people who have responded. I guess I have
to make a choice! I'm not sure what an "expediter" would have been in
1869. As for the "sofer" or "soyfer" explanation, would that have been
possible for someone whose father's occupation has been translated for me
as a "day worker" (laborer)? His sister married a tinsmith. If anyone has
any more ideas, I'd be happy to listen.

Faith Gardner

Thank you to all who responded...I guess I shall pick the one I like best!


reply to Vivian in re: help with town #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

Dear Vivian and Members,

Thanks for your suggestion of Suskove for Zukove which is N.E. of Mukachevo,
but I think I'm looking for a different town.

On an old, very dark, partial copy of a map of Munkacs >from the Library of
Congress, N.W. of Munkacs is Zsuko. This Zsuko is also North
of Cserejoc & Csapocka (sorry I don't know the modern names of these).
This portion is lacking a distance key and coordinates that I can see.
Oroszveg/Rosvegovo looks far >from Munkacs on it--I wonder how accurate the
plotting was then.

I'd appreciate a suggestion for how to determine the location of this Zsuko.


Happy Pesach and Regards to All,
Linda Cohen
MichiganUSA

Moderator: Check out the Bereg county map at <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/1910ind.htm> and see if you can find Zsuko. VK


áòðééï: Help me find town #hungary

Tsvi Sinai <t_sinai1@...>
 

Hi,

If you'll look at the Shtetl seeker you'll find at least ( by D-M
soundex )
13 places in Ukraine called Zhukovo. At least four of them have
coordinates which places them not far >from Munkachevo.

Regards,
Tsvi Sinai, Givatayim, Israel


Hungary SIG #Hungary reply to Vivian in re: help with town #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

Dear Vivian and Members,

Thanks for your suggestion of Suskove for Zukove which is N.E. of Mukachevo,
but I think I'm looking for a different town.

On an old, very dark, partial copy of a map of Munkacs >from the Library of
Congress, N.W. of Munkacs is Zsuko. This Zsuko is also North
of Cserejoc & Csapocka (sorry I don't know the modern names of these).
This portion is lacking a distance key and coordinates that I can see.
Oroszveg/Rosvegovo looks far >from Munkacs on it--I wonder how accurate the
plotting was then.

I'd appreciate a suggestion for how to determine the location of this Zsuko.


Happy Pesach and Regards to All,
Linda Cohen
MichiganUSA

Moderator: Check out the Bereg county map at <http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/1910ind.htm> and see if you can find Zsuko. VK


Hungary SIG #Hungary áòðééï: Help me find town #hungary

Tsvi Sinai <t_sinai1@...>
 

Hi,

If you'll look at the Shtetl seeker you'll find at least ( by D-M
soundex )
13 places in Ukraine called Zhukovo. At least four of them have
coordinates which places them not far >from Munkachevo.

Regards,
Tsvi Sinai, Givatayim, Israel


codes used for detainees at Ellis Island #ukraine

Cathy Conner <conner5@...>
 

Evan Fishman asked:
Can anyone direct me to an explanation of the codes used to classify
detainees at Ellis Island? I've found a variety of letters which I
assume
delineated different conditions and/or situations. Is there something I
can
read about this? Thanks.

I don't know if there is a book of codes but while at the NARA in NYC
this past week I found my Grandmothers ships passenger list. The
gentleman next to me was just delighted as I when I found her name on
the micro film. His first comment was that I was lucky the family was
detained because it gives more information on the family. He told me he
was a professional researcher and translated my families information.

First column: Age of passenger followed by f for female m for male.
next column: Index number. (each passenger was given a number for
reference)
next column: Name. The head of the household travelling was always
listed first.
next column: Group number and number in the group for reference
next column: Number of persons travelling in the party
next column: Cause of detention
(In our case it was LPC: Likely to be public
charge)further explained in document "With 41" and "Mother of 40"
Referring to the numbers of the passengers and meant that because they
were two women and two young children they may not have a means of
support. It was then listed that they were detained and that someone
would have to come and take charge of them. That would be my Great
Grandfather. Since it would take time to contact him. They kept track
of the meals fed to each passenger on the far right columns of the
document so you can tell exactly how long your family was detained.
Hope this is of help.

Cathy Conner
conner5@bellsouth.net

Researching:BRESSLER/Odessa
LEHRMAN/LERMAN/Kiev,Bazar, Paslim, Valednik
BRAUN/BARON Hertza, Roumania/Gerta, Ukraine
SCHOENFELD/Ukraine


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine codes used for detainees at Ellis Island #ukraine

Cathy Conner <conner5@...>
 

Evan Fishman asked:
Can anyone direct me to an explanation of the codes used to classify
detainees at Ellis Island? I've found a variety of letters which I
assume
delineated different conditions and/or situations. Is there something I
can
read about this? Thanks.

I don't know if there is a book of codes but while at the NARA in NYC
this past week I found my Grandmothers ships passenger list. The
gentleman next to me was just delighted as I when I found her name on
the micro film. His first comment was that I was lucky the family was
detained because it gives more information on the family. He told me he
was a professional researcher and translated my families information.

First column: Age of passenger followed by f for female m for male.
next column: Index number. (each passenger was given a number for
reference)
next column: Name. The head of the household travelling was always
listed first.
next column: Group number and number in the group for reference
next column: Number of persons travelling in the party
next column: Cause of detention
(In our case it was LPC: Likely to be public
charge)further explained in document "With 41" and "Mother of 40"
Referring to the numbers of the passengers and meant that because they
were two women and two young children they may not have a means of
support. It was then listed that they were detained and that someone
would have to come and take charge of them. That would be my Great
Grandfather. Since it would take time to contact him. They kept track
of the meals fed to each passenger on the far right columns of the
document so you can tell exactly how long your family was detained.
Hope this is of help.

Cathy Conner
conner5@bellsouth.net

Researching:BRESSLER/Odessa
LEHRMAN/LERMAN/Kiev,Bazar, Paslim, Valednik
BRAUN/BARON Hertza, Roumania/Gerta, Ukraine
SCHOENFELD/Ukraine