jerry@vms.huji.ac.il (Prof. G. L. Esterson) opined:
----------snip-------------

It is also necessary to define several broad categories of Jews over
the centuries: Religious, Cultural, Secular, and Converted (Jews who
convert to Christianity are still considered formally to
be Jews). In general, there has been a steady flow of Jews >from the
left categories to the right one, and this has led to "Jewish genes"
being found among today's Christians.

----------snip-------------

Several assertions in Prof. Esterson's generally valuable discussion
are not above challenge, or are subjective. The one egregious one that
caught my eye is that quoted above. In Halakha, onee who has accepted
voluntarily another religion has cut himself off >from the Jewish
People, and is no longer considered a Jew. There are groups, e.g. the
Reform stream and "Jews for Jesus", that do not accept this
limitation, simply because they do not accept Halakha altogether; if
they are what Prof. Esterson meant, he should have said so. For Jews
who subscribe to the idea that a people, like any other social entity,
makes rules to define itself, and that Halakha embodies those rules,
the assertion is false.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: To send me email, please delete the REMOVE_THIS >from my
address.

MODERATOR NOTE: Discussion of Jewish law and religion, except as they
pertain to genealogy, are off topic for this forum. Any further discussion
of the these matters should be continued privately. The Thread for
discussion of the name Yoshe and Yiddish dialects remains open.

Hi,
Researching the family name of CAPLAN. Flora Caplan (Kaplan) married
Israel Chaim in 1897. Isreal Chaim come over to America in 1892 at the
age of 18. Where can I locate the names of the ships that these people
come over on.?
Valerie Rambach

MODERATOR NOTE: Start by reading the JewishGen FAQ section
on Passenger Lists. The FAQ can be found at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/faq.html>.

Naming after only dead relatives is Eastern European Ashkenazi only. My
German ancestors and Sephardi ancestors named after the grandparents like
Catholics did: first son after the father's father, second son after the
mother's father, first daughter after the father's mother, second daughter
after the mother's mother.

Where in Germany/Poland the dividing line is, I do not know. The Germans I
am talking about were in Baden and Hesse Nassau and Bavaria. I also had
Pommeranian and Posener ancestors but do not have enough information to say
how they named their kids; maybe someone else can help "draw a line" if
that is possible.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

As to cemeteries for lower Manhattan in the 20s, you might try
Washington Cemetery, very popular during that period, just across
the Brooklyn bridge in Brooklyn

From: Sara Lynns [mailto:saralynn7@yahoo.com]

I have an address for my paternal aunt late 30's.

Is anyone familiar with Kelly St. (the Bronx)?

Did a search during a visit to the lib also...
1920 census. My paternal grandmother lived on E. 10th St.
(Manhattan). What synagogues/cemeteries are in the area?
Have done a search and contacted several; so far, no
luck. I am optimistic, however. >>

jerry@vms.huji.ac.il (Prof. G. L. Esterson) opined:
----------snip-------------

It is also necessary to define several broad categories of Jews over
the centuries: Religious, Cultural, Secular, and Converted (Jews who
convert to Christianity are still considered formally to
be Jews). In general, there has been a steady flow of Jews >from the
left categories to the right one, and this has led to "Jewish genes"
being found among today's Christians.

----------snip-------------

Several assertions in Prof. Esterson's generally valuable discussion
are not above challenge, or are subjective. The one egregious one that
caught my eye is that quoted above. In Halakha, onee who has accepted
voluntarily another religion has cut himself off >from the Jewish
People, and is no longer considered a Jew. There are groups, e.g. the
Reform stream and "Jews for Jesus", that do not accept this
limitation, simply because they do not accept Halakha altogether; if
they are what Prof. Esterson meant, he should have said so. For Jews
who subscribe to the idea that a people, like any other social entity,
makes rules to define itself, and that Halakha embodies those rules,
the assertion is false.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: To send me email, please delete the REMOVE_THIS >from my
address.

MODERATOR NOTE: Discussion of Jewish law and religion, except as they
pertain to genealogy, are off topic for this forum. Any further discussion
of the these matters should be continued privately. The Thread for
discussion of the name Yoshe and Yiddish dialects remains open.

Hi,
Researching the family name of CAPLAN. Flora Caplan (Kaplan) married
Israel Chaim in 1897. Isreal Chaim come over to America in 1892 at the
age of 18. Where can I locate the names of the ships that these people
come over on.?
Valerie Rambach

MODERATOR NOTE: Start by reading the JewishGen FAQ section
on Passenger Lists. The FAQ can be found at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/faq.html>.

Naming after only dead relatives is Eastern European Ashkenazi only. My
German ancestors and Sephardi ancestors named after the grandparents like
Catholics did: first son after the father's father, second son after the
mother's father, first daughter after the father's mother, second daughter
after the mother's mother.

Where in Germany/Poland the dividing line is, I do not know. The Germans I
am talking about were in Baden and Hesse Nassau and Bavaria. I also had
Pommeranian and Posener ancestors but do not have enough information to say
how they named their kids; maybe someone else can help "draw a line" if
that is possible.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

As to cemeteries for lower Manhattan in the 20s, you might try
Washington Cemetery, very popular during that period, just across
the Brooklyn bridge in Brooklyn

From: Sara Lynns [mailto:saralynn7@yahoo.com]

I have an address for my paternal aunt late 30's.

Is anyone familiar with Kelly St. (the Bronx)?

Did a search during a visit to the lib also...
1920 census. My paternal grandmother lived on E. 10th St.
(Manhattan). What synagogues/cemeteries are in the area?
Have done a search and contacted several; so far, no
luck. I am optimistic, however. >>

I would be grateful if anyone who has a book Old Books, Rare Friends: Two
Literary Sleuths and Their Shared Passion, by Madeleine B STERN and Leona
ROSTENBERG, published a few years ago, would contact me.

Thanks.

Alice Josephs
United Kingdom

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.

I am trying to look up death records and obituaries in
New Jersey (especially Newark). Are there any web sites
that can help??

Dan

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Springfield, Ohio USA
re: GOLDROSEN, STRAUSBERG, HERSHDORFER

I would be grateful if anyone who has a book Old Books, Rare Friends: Two
Literary Sleuths and Their Shared Passion, by Madeleine B STERN and Leona
ROSTENBERG, published a few years ago, would contact me.

Thanks.

Alice Josephs
United Kingdom

MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately.

I am trying to look up death records and obituaries in
New Jersey (especially Newark). Are there any web sites
that can help??

Dan

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Springfield, Ohio USA
re: GOLDROSEN, STRAUSBERG, HERSHDORFER

This is a resend of a response I sent to Jewishgen which did not get
published during its most recent move, although the inquirer, Don Saklad
did receive the copy I had included. Since then I have rewritten part of
it to supply additional information to the mail group.

In his message of 02-13-01 Don Saklad asked where on the Internet could
a map showing the location of the town of "Bzenc," which he asserted
was "the only correct spelling."

I found an entry for a town called "Bzenec" (or in German, "Bisentz") in
my 1962 Columbia-Lippincott Gazetteer. This source says that "Bzenec," a
village with a population of 3,930, is located in a fertile area in S.
Moravia, Czechoslovakia, 25 miles southwest of Gottwaldov. It was a rail
junction and was noted for its "colorful folkways" and wine. Coal mining
was done in its vicinity.

On my paper map of the Slovak Republic I saw no reference to "Bzenec"
but I did found a town called Bzenica, located northeast of Koenigsberg
("Nova Bana"). There is a webpage in printed in Slovakian devoted to
Bzenec's history at:

http://www.mestobzenec.cz/

The Simon Weisenthal center has a couple of pages on Benzec and its Jews
at:

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/pages/t012/t01294.html

A Benzec cemetery description can be found at the Cemetery Project
affiliated with Jewishgen.

At: http://www.khuner.com/history/in01.htm

there is an interview with the violinist Felix Khuner (1906-1991) who
talked briefly about the German Jewish population of "Bisence" which he
said was "now called Bzenec."

There were some other sites in Slovak for Bzenec, but since I really
couldn't read much of their texts I had to click them off. Still, I found
several others in English, having to do with a monument to the Jews of
Bzenec. One of the sites I clicked on, which apparently concerned the
saving of artifacts >from Bzenec at the Jewish Museum would not "respond."

(Typing in "Bzenc" in the "google" search engine drew up one commercial
site devoted to temptingly described varieties of garlic!)

I sent privately to Mr. Saklad a number of "click on" URL messages
and for a map location I suggested that he try Jewishgen's ShtetlSeeker
which offers a click-on feature allowing searchers to be transferred to a
map showing the location of the town of interest.

Mr. Saklad later wrote me to say that he had found "Bzenc" in an old
atlas, showing that it was southwest of Gottwaldow, and that in 1980 he
had traveled >from Vienna to Gottwaldow. He then asked me whether
Gottwaldow was the same as a town called "Zlin." After some rummaging in
my C-L Gazetteer, I found it was; "Zlin" was the name of Gottwaldow until
1948.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol; BEHAM,
Salok, Kharkov.

I am looking for information on:

Moses Jacobs - Holland
+ Hanna - Holland

Jane b.abt 1797 (imigrated to USA ca 1846)
Sarah b. abt 1802 (imigrated to USA ca 1833)
+ Samuel Phillips b.abt. 1799

Mary b.20 dec 1831
Moss Samuel b.15 nov 1832
Louis
Sophia
Hannah

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Phyllis Dahl
pda@get2net.dk

Searching: PHILLIPS (UK,New York); COWAN (UK,USA); HYMAN (USA); JACOBS
(UK,USA); FELDMAN (UK); FISHEL (USA); FAUST (USA); MORRIS (USA); WEINBERG
(USA); GELDER (USA); STEINER (USA); KACHERAK (New Jersey); SWERN (New
Jersey)

I am searching my relations which lived in Ireland around 1880. Can you
tell me where a list and surname of Irish Jews can be found...thanks
Butch Kucan
butchkucan@webtv.net

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has an Infofile pertaining to researching Irish
Jewish roots at <http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/ie-info.txt>.

This is a resend of a response I sent to Jewishgen which did not get
published during its most recent move, although the inquirer, Don Saklad
did receive the copy I had included. Since then I have rewritten part of
it to supply additional information to the mail group.

In his message of 02-13-01 Don Saklad asked where on the Internet could
a map showing the location of the town of "Bzenc," which he asserted
was "the only correct spelling."

I found an entry for a town called "Bzenec" (or in German, "Bisentz") in
my 1962 Columbia-Lippincott Gazetteer. This source says that "Bzenec," a
village with a population of 3,930, is located in a fertile area in S.
Moravia, Czechoslovakia, 25 miles southwest of Gottwaldov. It was a rail
junction and was noted for its "colorful folkways" and wine. Coal mining
was done in its vicinity.

On my paper map of the Slovak Republic I saw no reference to "Bzenec"
but I did found a town called Bzenica, located northeast of Koenigsberg
("Nova Bana"). There is a webpage in printed in Slovakian devoted to
Bzenec's history at:

http://www.mestobzenec.cz/

The Simon Weisenthal center has a couple of pages on Benzec and its Jews
at:

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/pages/t012/t01294.html

A Benzec cemetery description can be found at the Cemetery Project
affiliated with Jewishgen.

At: http://www.khuner.com/history/in01.htm

there is an interview with the violinist Felix Khuner (1906-1991) who
talked briefly about the German Jewish population of "Bisence" which he
said was "now called Bzenec."

There were some other sites in Slovak for Bzenec, but since I really
couldn't read much of their texts I had to click them off. Still, I found
several others in English, having to do with a monument to the Jews of
Bzenec. One of the sites I clicked on, which apparently concerned the
saving of artifacts >from Bzenec at the Jewish Museum would not "respond."

(Typing in "Bzenc" in the "google" search engine drew up one commercial
site devoted to temptingly described varieties of garlic!)

I sent privately to Mr. Saklad a number of "click on" URL messages
and for a map location I suggested that he try Jewishgen's ShtetlSeeker
which offers a click-on feature allowing searchers to be transferred to a
map showing the location of the town of interest.

Mr. Saklad later wrote me to say that he had found "Bzenc" in an old
atlas, showing that it was southwest of Gottwaldow, and that in 1980 he
had traveled >from Vienna to Gottwaldow. He then asked me whether
Gottwaldow was the same as a town called "Zlin." After some rummaging in
my C-L Gazetteer, I found it was; "Zlin" was the name of Gottwaldow until
1948.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol; BEHAM,
Salok, Kharkov.

I am looking for information on:

Moses Jacobs - Holland
+ Hanna - Holland

Jane b.abt 1797 (imigrated to USA ca 1846)
Sarah b. abt 1802 (imigrated to USA ca 1833)
+ Samuel Phillips b.abt. 1799

Mary b.20 dec 1831
Moss Samuel b.15 nov 1832
Louis
Sophia
Hannah

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Phyllis Dahl
pda@get2net.dk

Searching: PHILLIPS (UK,New York); COWAN (UK,USA); HYMAN (USA); JACOBS
(UK,USA); FELDMAN (UK); FISHEL (USA); FAUST (USA); MORRIS (USA); WEINBERG
(USA); GELDER (USA); STEINER (USA); KACHERAK (New Jersey); SWERN (New
Jersey)

I am searching my relations which lived in Ireland around 1880. Can you
tell me where a list and surname of Irish Jews can be found...thanks
Butch Kucan
butchkucan@webtv.net

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen has an Infofile pertaining to researching Irish
Jewish roots at <http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/ie-info.txt>.

Hello, anyone find family >from Timikovichi(Belarus) with this last name?
J. Zeliansky lived at 40 Canal Street in 1904 when my great uncle Aron
Garfinkel, came to stay with them.. I can not find them in the 1905
state census in NY..also the family had a branch who lived in Sioux
City, Iowa, the Zell's..I think the spelling of this last name is the
problem..Help..
Gayle of San Gabriel, Ca

Amough the three genealogy software programs that I use I'm having some
difficulty with Family Tree Maker entering an adopted son by showing both
his birth parent and adopted parent. It's a situation where the mother
remarried and her husband legally adopted the son. The father if the boy
feels it is important that his son also know the true blood line.

Please reply to NormTillman@aol.com

Thank you,
Norman Tillman Albany, NY

Searching: TILLMAN, TYLMAN, DAVIDSON, DAVIDUVITCH, TRAKMAN, SHARFF or
SCHARF, ZYMAN ZIMAN in Poland, Lithuania and Latvia Regions