Date   

Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 


I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".

Can somebody inform me - and perhaps also others - what an "Indirect
Descendant is?

Leslie Reich, Salford, England
Leslie's rhetorical question is well taken. Of course he is quire right:
one is either a person's direct descendant or no descendant at all. But
some people specify "direct descendant" because in common parlance the term
"ancestor" is often used loosely, to include the siblings and collaterals
of one's actual ("direct") forebear. By the same token, the term
"desendant" is sometimes loosely used to include people descended from
collaterals of the ancestor under discussion. Therefore, the term
"direct descendant" is sometimes used to emphasize a direct line .

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 


I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".

Can somebody inform me - and perhaps also others - what an "Indirect
Descendant is?

Leslie Reich, Salford, England
Leslie's rhetorical question is well taken. Of course he is quire right:
one is either a person's direct descendant or no descendant at all. But
some people specify "direct descendant" because in common parlance the term
"ancestor" is often used loosely, to include the siblings and collaterals
of one's actual ("direct") forebear. By the same token, the term
"desendant" is sometimes loosely used to include people descended from
collaterals of the ancestor under discussion. Therefore, the term
"direct descendant" is sometimes used to emphasize a direct line .

Judith Romney Wegner


Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants #general

trmclell@...
 

Leslie Reich wrote:

I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".

Can somebody inform me - and perhaps also others - what an "Indirect
Descendant is?

Leslie Reich, Salford, England

I have always used these terms in this manner:

Direct Descendants = Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.
A straight line down on the family tree

Indirect Descendants = Nieces, Nephews, cousins, etc.
A jog to one side on the family tree

Hope this helps,
Maurine Bothman McLellan
Stilwell, KS, USA

Searching: BOTHMAN BEJACH FLEISCHER SACHS


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants #general

trmclell@...
 

Leslie Reich wrote:

I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".

Can somebody inform me - and perhaps also others - what an "Indirect
Descendant is?

Leslie Reich, Salford, England

I have always used these terms in this manner:

Direct Descendants = Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.
A straight line down on the family tree

Indirect Descendants = Nieces, Nephews, cousins, etc.
A jog to one side on the family tree

Hope this helps,
Maurine Bothman McLellan
Stilwell, KS, USA

Searching: BOTHMAN BEJACH FLEISCHER SACHS


Camp Normana #general

anitag <anitag@...>
 

I am interested in any information about Camp Normana that was constructed
in 1929 in the Palisades Interestate Park which provided a free vacation for
several Bronx children every year. Also any info about Aaron Norman
(constructed the camp) and President of the Home for Hebrew Infants in The
Bronx in 1915. Does anyone who if the camp in still in use? Would I be
able to obtain a picture of the facility anywhere? Your help will be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Anita Goldberg


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Camp Normana #general

anitag <anitag@...>
 

I am interested in any information about Camp Normana that was constructed
in 1929 in the Palisades Interestate Park which provided a free vacation for
several Bronx children every year. Also any info about Aaron Norman
(constructed the camp) and President of the Home for Hebrew Infants in The
Bronx in 1915. Does anyone who if the camp in still in use? Would I be
able to obtain a picture of the facility anywhere? Your help will be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Anita Goldberg


Gersh is not Gershon #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Roy Ogus wrote:

I know that the Yiddish given name Hirsh/Girsh is a kinui for the
Hebrew name Tzvi. Does anyone know whether the given name "Gershon" is
derived >from the same name Girsh/Hirsh, or has some other root?
The answer is that Gershon is totally unconnected with Hirsch/Girsch. It
is an original biblical Hebrew name, not a relatively modern Yiddish one!
But even had you asked the question the other way round (i.e., "does Gersh
come >from Gershon?") it still wouldn't work! It seems you were
bumsteered by overlooking the fact that the spelling "Gersh" occurs only
because G is the letter used by Russian for the H sound in the German word
Hirsch.

In the names Gershon and Gershom (which are two different names but both
biblical!) the G represents the Hebrew letter Gimel, having no connection
whatsoever with the sound "H" or with any Russian or German word. We need
to keep these three unrelated languages separate in our minds, to avoid
invalid trans-linguistic speculations.

The name Gershom appears in Exodus 2:22 as the firstborn of Moses. The
name Gershon appears at Exodus 6:16 as the firstborn of Levi (who was the
third son of Jacob and Leah).

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Gersh is not Gershon #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Roy Ogus wrote:

I know that the Yiddish given name Hirsh/Girsh is a kinui for the
Hebrew name Tzvi. Does anyone know whether the given name "Gershon" is
derived >from the same name Girsh/Hirsh, or has some other root?
The answer is that Gershon is totally unconnected with Hirsch/Girsch. It
is an original biblical Hebrew name, not a relatively modern Yiddish one!
But even had you asked the question the other way round (i.e., "does Gersh
come >from Gershon?") it still wouldn't work! It seems you were
bumsteered by overlooking the fact that the spelling "Gersh" occurs only
because G is the letter used by Russian for the H sound in the German word
Hirsch.

In the names Gershon and Gershom (which are two different names but both
biblical!) the G represents the Hebrew letter Gimel, having no connection
whatsoever with the sound "H" or with any Russian or German word. We need
to keep these three unrelated languages separate in our minds, to avoid
invalid trans-linguistic speculations.

The name Gershom appears in Exodus 2:22 as the firstborn of Moses. The
name Gershon appears at Exodus 6:16 as the firstborn of Levi (who was the
third son of Jacob and Leah).

Judith Romney Wegner


new messages #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Dear people of the list,

Obviously, messages have been far and few the past several days. Now would
be a good oportunity to share with us the family names and ancestral towns
that you are researching. Even if you have posted this information at one
time, feel free to do so again.

Even though most of my time during a recent visit to Israel was taken up
with genealogy related matters, and visiting with H-siggers throughout
Israel, (apologies to those who live beyond the Green Line- I'm not that
brave!)I have yet to prepare a "trip" report. I still hope to do so, but it
may have to wait until after a follow-up visit there in a few months.
In the meantime, I will share specific items that I learned during that
trip and which may be helpful to others.


Dr. Yehoshua Buchler gave me a photocopied letterhead >from the Slovak
Genealogical-Heraldic Society at the Matica slovenska, headed by Dr. Milan
Sismis. They have a website - www.genealogy-heraldry.sk ; e-mail for Dr.
Sismis is sismis@matica.sk There is a researcher there who I beleive
specializes in Slovak Jewish families. I only have a last name: Weinberger.
The institute's fax number is 421/842-33188 and the telephone is
421/842-31372. The mailing address is Nam. J.C. Hronskenho 1 / 036 52
Martin / Slovakia. Has anyone had experience with this institute?


Best wishes

Louis Schonfeld
Cleveland, OH

visit my shtetlsite: www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/


Hungary SIG #Hungary new messages #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Dear people of the list,

Obviously, messages have been far and few the past several days. Now would
be a good oportunity to share with us the family names and ancestral towns
that you are researching. Even if you have posted this information at one
time, feel free to do so again.

Even though most of my time during a recent visit to Israel was taken up
with genealogy related matters, and visiting with H-siggers throughout
Israel, (apologies to those who live beyond the Green Line- I'm not that
brave!)I have yet to prepare a "trip" report. I still hope to do so, but it
may have to wait until after a follow-up visit there in a few months.
In the meantime, I will share specific items that I learned during that
trip and which may be helpful to others.


Dr. Yehoshua Buchler gave me a photocopied letterhead >from the Slovak
Genealogical-Heraldic Society at the Matica slovenska, headed by Dr. Milan
Sismis. They have a website - www.genealogy-heraldry.sk ; e-mail for Dr.
Sismis is sismis@matica.sk There is a researcher there who I beleive
specializes in Slovak Jewish families. I only have a last name: Weinberger.
The institute's fax number is 421/842-33188 and the telephone is
421/842-31372. The mailing address is Nam. J.C. Hronskenho 1 / 036 52
Martin / Slovakia. Has anyone had experience with this institute?


Best wishes

Louis Schonfeld
Cleveland, OH

visit my shtetlsite: www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/


Researching these names #hungary

Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

Researching:

MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipca, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO
herbiem@mindspring.com


Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein from Munkacs. #hungary

Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
 

Hello everyone

I research the Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein families >from
Munkacs. My great grandfather Samuel Zanvil Schancz ran the train station
of Munkacs, Hungary >from about 1885 until 1903 according to a relative.

I have currently contacted someone >from Kiev who has friends in Mukachevo
(Munkacs) who knows someone who knows someone over 100 years old >from
Mukachevo and also someone else who worked for the railroad in Mukachevo. I
have sent some questions to get forwarded to both people and I will see if
I can get some answers. Some information you can find written down and some
information people over the age of 100 still alive carry.

With the inspiration and help over 3 years now >from Louis Schonfeld, I have
obtained a birth certificate of one of my grandfather's sisters Esther
Schantz, born in Munkacs in 1891. I have also found out the birthplace of
my great grandfather Samuel Schancz, Dobromil and I have found a member of
Jewishgen, who also researches Schantz >from Dobromil who has 4 Schantz
brothers ancestors >from Dobromil in the 1820's and 1830's Hersh, Jacob,
Louis and Mendel, where Mendel might appear my great great grandfather
Menachem Mendel Schantz. I have also learned that my great great
grandmother Golda Mirel Greenstein might repose in the desecrated cemetery
of Munkacs (Mukachevo).

You can see the Schantz family web page at
http://www.hoflink.com/~dbaer/schantz.htm

and you will see a picture of my great grandparents Samuel and Sarah
Schantz taken in New York City in 1920, 81 years ago. They got married in
Munkacs in 1885.

Enjoy.

Dennis Baer
New York


Morgenstern, Newman #hungary

d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>
 

As per the recent request I am reposting the
Hungarian-Jewish surnames I am researching.

They are Morgenstern and Neuman >from Murska Sobota,
Slovenia. My grandfather, Viktor left Murska Sobota
in 1920. When he left he had a passport, but on the
way it was stolen.

I have been trying to locate his birth record from
Murska Sobota (without success). It isn't in the year
I have for his birth. On the otherhand it is known
that he often did not tell the truth about his age.

Denise



=====
Researching:
Newman,Morgenstern(Slovenia)
Szall, Nemeth (Vas, Hungary)
Szabo, Koch (Beregszasz, Hungary)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Hungary SIG #Hungary Researching these names #hungary

Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

Researching:

MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipca, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO
herbiem@mindspring.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein from Munkacs. #hungary

Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
 

Hello everyone

I research the Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein families >from
Munkacs. My great grandfather Samuel Zanvil Schancz ran the train station
of Munkacs, Hungary >from about 1885 until 1903 according to a relative.

I have currently contacted someone >from Kiev who has friends in Mukachevo
(Munkacs) who knows someone who knows someone over 100 years old >from
Mukachevo and also someone else who worked for the railroad in Mukachevo. I
have sent some questions to get forwarded to both people and I will see if
I can get some answers. Some information you can find written down and some
information people over the age of 100 still alive carry.

With the inspiration and help over 3 years now >from Louis Schonfeld, I have
obtained a birth certificate of one of my grandfather's sisters Esther
Schantz, born in Munkacs in 1891. I have also found out the birthplace of
my great grandfather Samuel Schancz, Dobromil and I have found a member of
Jewishgen, who also researches Schantz >from Dobromil who has 4 Schantz
brothers ancestors >from Dobromil in the 1820's and 1830's Hersh, Jacob,
Louis and Mendel, where Mendel might appear my great great grandfather
Menachem Mendel Schantz. I have also learned that my great great
grandmother Golda Mirel Greenstein might repose in the desecrated cemetery
of Munkacs (Mukachevo).

You can see the Schantz family web page at
http://www.hoflink.com/~dbaer/schantz.htm

and you will see a picture of my great grandparents Samuel and Sarah
Schantz taken in New York City in 1920, 81 years ago. They got married in
Munkacs in 1885.

Enjoy.

Dennis Baer
New York


Hungary SIG #Hungary Morgenstern, Newman #hungary

d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>
 

As per the recent request I am reposting the
Hungarian-Jewish surnames I am researching.

They are Morgenstern and Neuman >from Murska Sobota,
Slovenia. My grandfather, Viktor left Murska Sobota
in 1920. When he left he had a passport, but on the
way it was stolen.

I have been trying to locate his birth record from
Murska Sobota (without success). It isn't in the year
I have for his birth. On the otherhand it is known
that he often did not tell the truth about his age.

Denise



=====
Researching:
Newman,Morgenstern(Slovenia)
Szall, Nemeth (Vas, Hungary)
Szabo, Koch (Beregszasz, Hungary)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Re: My mtDNA revealed a Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian origin #dna

Conrad Johansson <holmsjon@...>
 

Concerning Annee Ani's question about possible Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian
origins of Ashkenazi Jews.

Bulgarians were originally a Turkish tribe. The word is related to Volga and
an ancient state on the Volga called "Bulgar".

Karelian, Finns and Turks are Ural-Altaic, and thus linguistically, and
possibly genetically, related.

There existed a Turkish-Jewish empire in southern Russia called the Khazar
empire during the 10th century until it was devastated by vikings.

Costler suggests in "The Thirteenth Tribe" that refugees and other >from the
Khazar took part in shaping East European Jewry.

sincerely
Conrad Johansson
Ph D student,
Sweden


DNA Research #DNA Re: My mtDNA revealed a Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian origin #dna

Conrad Johansson <holmsjon@...>
 

Concerning Annee Ani's question about possible Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian
origins of Ashkenazi Jews.

Bulgarians were originally a Turkish tribe. The word is related to Volga and
an ancient state on the Volga called "Bulgar".

Karelian, Finns and Turks are Ural-Altaic, and thus linguistically, and
possibly genetically, related.

There existed a Turkish-Jewish empire in southern Russia called the Khazar
empire during the 10th century until it was devastated by vikings.

Costler suggests in "The Thirteenth Tribe" that refugees and other >from the
Khazar took part in shaping East European Jewry.

sincerely
Conrad Johansson
Ph D student,
Sweden


Anyone know whether those numbers really match my mtDNA printout? #dna

Annee Ani <annee_ani@...>
 

Thanks. Do you know who might be interested to take a look at my mtDNA
printout and tell me >from the three "c"s which mutations I do have, what
ethnicity? I'm not sure if the 189, 356, and 362 are really mine, as it was
given to me by someone who works at Stanford, and I don't know where the
numbers came from, but I have the basic mtDNA prinout >from
Oxfordancestors.com. Any suggestions? Thanks
Annee


Please answer privately
MODERATOR ON DUTY
_________________________________________________________________


DNA Research #DNA Anyone know whether those numbers really match my mtDNA printout? #dna

Annee Ani <annee_ani@...>
 

Thanks. Do you know who might be interested to take a look at my mtDNA
printout and tell me >from the three "c"s which mutations I do have, what
ethnicity? I'm not sure if the 189, 356, and 362 are really mine, as it was
given to me by someone who works at Stanford, and I don't know where the
numbers came from, but I have the basic mtDNA prinout >from
Oxfordancestors.com. Any suggestions? Thanks
Annee


Please answer privately
MODERATOR ON DUTY
_________________________________________________________________