Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
Leslie's rhetorical question is well taken. Of course he is quire right: one is either a person's direct descendant or no descendant at all. But some people specify "direct descendant" because in common parlance the term "ancestor" is often used loosely, to include the siblings and collaterals of one's actual ("direct") forebear. By the same token, the term "desendant" is sometimes loosely used to include people descended from collaterals of the ancestor under discussion. Therefore, the term "direct descendant" is sometimes used to emphasize a direct line . Judith Romney Wegner
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
Leslie's rhetorical question is well taken. Of course he is quire right: one is either a person's direct descendant or no descendant at all. But some people specify "direct descendant" because in common parlance the term "ancestor" is often used loosely, to include the siblings and collaterals of one's actual ("direct") forebear. By the same token, the term "desendant" is sometimes loosely used to include people descended from collaterals of the ancestor under discussion. Therefore, the term "direct descendant" is sometimes used to emphasize a direct line . Judith Romney Wegner
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Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants
#general
trmclell@...
Leslie Reich wrote:
I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".I have always used these terms in this manner: Direct Descendants = Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. A straight line down on the family tree Indirect Descendants = Nieces, Nephews, cousins, etc. A jog to one side on the family tree Hope this helps, Maurine Bothman McLellan Stilwell, KS, USA Searching: BOTHMAN BEJACH FLEISCHER SACHS
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Direct and Indirect Descendants
#general
trmclell@...
Leslie Reich wrote:
I keep seeing references to "Direct Descendants".I have always used these terms in this manner: Direct Descendants = Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. A straight line down on the family tree Indirect Descendants = Nieces, Nephews, cousins, etc. A jog to one side on the family tree Hope this helps, Maurine Bothman McLellan Stilwell, KS, USA Searching: BOTHMAN BEJACH FLEISCHER SACHS
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Camp Normana
#general
anitag <anitag@...>
I am interested in any information about Camp Normana that was constructed
in 1929 in the Palisades Interestate Park which provided a free vacation for several Bronx children every year. Also any info about Aaron Norman (constructed the camp) and President of the Home for Hebrew Infants in The Bronx in 1915. Does anyone who if the camp in still in use? Would I be able to obtain a picture of the facility anywhere? Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Anita Goldberg
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Camp Normana
#general
anitag <anitag@...>
I am interested in any information about Camp Normana that was constructed
in 1929 in the Palisades Interestate Park which provided a free vacation for several Bronx children every year. Also any info about Aaron Norman (constructed the camp) and President of the Home for Hebrew Infants in The Bronx in 1915. Does anyone who if the camp in still in use? Would I be able to obtain a picture of the facility anywhere? Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Anita Goldberg
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Gersh is not Gershon
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
Roy Ogus wrote:
I know that the Yiddish given name Hirsh/Girsh is a kinui for theThe answer is that Gershon is totally unconnected with Hirsch/Girsch. It is an original biblical Hebrew name, not a relatively modern Yiddish one! But even had you asked the question the other way round (i.e., "does Gersh come >from Gershon?") it still wouldn't work! It seems you were bumsteered by overlooking the fact that the spelling "Gersh" occurs only because G is the letter used by Russian for the H sound in the German word Hirsch. In the names Gershon and Gershom (which are two different names but both biblical!) the G represents the Hebrew letter Gimel, having no connection whatsoever with the sound "H" or with any Russian or German word. We need to keep these three unrelated languages separate in our minds, to avoid invalid trans-linguistic speculations. The name Gershom appears in Exodus 2:22 as the firstborn of Moses. The name Gershon appears at Exodus 6:16 as the firstborn of Levi (who was the third son of Jacob and Leah). Judith Romney Wegner
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Gersh is not Gershon
#general
Judith Romney Wegner
Roy Ogus wrote:
I know that the Yiddish given name Hirsh/Girsh is a kinui for theThe answer is that Gershon is totally unconnected with Hirsch/Girsch. It is an original biblical Hebrew name, not a relatively modern Yiddish one! But even had you asked the question the other way round (i.e., "does Gersh come >from Gershon?") it still wouldn't work! It seems you were bumsteered by overlooking the fact that the spelling "Gersh" occurs only because G is the letter used by Russian for the H sound in the German word Hirsch. In the names Gershon and Gershom (which are two different names but both biblical!) the G represents the Hebrew letter Gimel, having no connection whatsoever with the sound "H" or with any Russian or German word. We need to keep these three unrelated languages separate in our minds, to avoid invalid trans-linguistic speculations. The name Gershom appears in Exodus 2:22 as the firstborn of Moses. The name Gershon appears at Exodus 6:16 as the firstborn of Levi (who was the third son of Jacob and Leah). Judith Romney Wegner
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new messages
#hungary
Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
Dear people of the list,
Obviously, messages have been far and few the past several days. Now would be a good oportunity to share with us the family names and ancestral towns that you are researching. Even if you have posted this information at one time, feel free to do so again. Even though most of my time during a recent visit to Israel was taken up with genealogy related matters, and visiting with H-siggers throughout Israel, (apologies to those who live beyond the Green Line- I'm not that brave!)I have yet to prepare a "trip" report. I still hope to do so, but it may have to wait until after a follow-up visit there in a few months. In the meantime, I will share specific items that I learned during that trip and which may be helpful to others. Dr. Yehoshua Buchler gave me a photocopied letterhead >from the Slovak Genealogical-Heraldic Society at the Matica slovenska, headed by Dr. Milan Sismis. They have a website - www.genealogy-heraldry.sk ; e-mail for Dr. Sismis is sismis@matica.sk There is a researcher there who I beleive specializes in Slovak Jewish families. I only have a last name: Weinberger. The institute's fax number is 421/842-33188 and the telephone is 421/842-31372. The mailing address is Nam. J.C. Hronskenho 1 / 036 52 Martin / Slovakia. Has anyone had experience with this institute? Best wishes Louis Schonfeld Cleveland, OH visit my shtetlsite: www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/
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Hungary SIG #Hungary new messages
#hungary
Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
Dear people of the list,
Obviously, messages have been far and few the past several days. Now would be a good oportunity to share with us the family names and ancestral towns that you are researching. Even if you have posted this information at one time, feel free to do so again. Even though most of my time during a recent visit to Israel was taken up with genealogy related matters, and visiting with H-siggers throughout Israel, (apologies to those who live beyond the Green Line- I'm not that brave!)I have yet to prepare a "trip" report. I still hope to do so, but it may have to wait until after a follow-up visit there in a few months. In the meantime, I will share specific items that I learned during that trip and which may be helpful to others. Dr. Yehoshua Buchler gave me a photocopied letterhead >from the Slovak Genealogical-Heraldic Society at the Matica slovenska, headed by Dr. Milan Sismis. They have a website - www.genealogy-heraldry.sk ; e-mail for Dr. Sismis is sismis@matica.sk There is a researcher there who I beleive specializes in Slovak Jewish families. I only have a last name: Weinberger. The institute's fax number is 421/842-33188 and the telephone is 421/842-31372. The mailing address is Nam. J.C. Hronskenho 1 / 036 52 Martin / Slovakia. Has anyone had experience with this institute? Best wishes Louis Schonfeld Cleveland, OH visit my shtetlsite: www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/
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Researching these names
#hungary
Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
Researching:
MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipca, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) Herb Meyers Boulder, CO herbiem@mindspring.com
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Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein from Munkacs.
#hungary
Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
Hello everyone
I research the Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein families >from Munkacs. My great grandfather Samuel Zanvil Schancz ran the train station of Munkacs, Hungary >from about 1885 until 1903 according to a relative. I have currently contacted someone >from Kiev who has friends in Mukachevo (Munkacs) who knows someone who knows someone over 100 years old >from Mukachevo and also someone else who worked for the railroad in Mukachevo. I have sent some questions to get forwarded to both people and I will see if I can get some answers. Some information you can find written down and some information people over the age of 100 still alive carry. With the inspiration and help over 3 years now >from Louis Schonfeld, I have obtained a birth certificate of one of my grandfather's sisters Esther Schantz, born in Munkacs in 1891. I have also found out the birthplace of my great grandfather Samuel Schancz, Dobromil and I have found a member of Jewishgen, who also researches Schantz >from Dobromil who has 4 Schantz brothers ancestors >from Dobromil in the 1820's and 1830's Hersh, Jacob, Louis and Mendel, where Mendel might appear my great great grandfather Menachem Mendel Schantz. I have also learned that my great great grandmother Golda Mirel Greenstein might repose in the desecrated cemetery of Munkacs (Mukachevo). You can see the Schantz family web page at http://www.hoflink.com/~dbaer/schantz.htm and you will see a picture of my great grandparents Samuel and Sarah Schantz taken in New York City in 1920, 81 years ago. They got married in Munkacs in 1885. Enjoy. Dennis Baer New York
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Morgenstern, Newman
#hungary
d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>
As per the recent request I am reposting the
Hungarian-Jewish surnames I am researching. They are Morgenstern and Neuman >from Murska Sobota, Slovenia. My grandfather, Viktor left Murska Sobota in 1920. When he left he had a passport, but on the way it was stolen. I have been trying to locate his birth record from Murska Sobota (without success). It isn't in the year I have for his birth. On the otherhand it is known that he often did not tell the truth about his age. Denise ===== Researching: Newman,Morgenstern(Slovenia) Szall, Nemeth (Vas, Hungary) Szabo, Koch (Beregszasz, Hungary) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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Hungary SIG #Hungary Researching these names
#hungary
Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
Researching:
MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipca, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary) Herb Meyers Boulder, CO herbiem@mindspring.com
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Hungary SIG #Hungary Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein from Munkacs.
#hungary
Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
Hello everyone
I research the Schantz, Schancz, Greenstein and Grunstein families >from Munkacs. My great grandfather Samuel Zanvil Schancz ran the train station of Munkacs, Hungary >from about 1885 until 1903 according to a relative. I have currently contacted someone >from Kiev who has friends in Mukachevo (Munkacs) who knows someone who knows someone over 100 years old >from Mukachevo and also someone else who worked for the railroad in Mukachevo. I have sent some questions to get forwarded to both people and I will see if I can get some answers. Some information you can find written down and some information people over the age of 100 still alive carry. With the inspiration and help over 3 years now >from Louis Schonfeld, I have obtained a birth certificate of one of my grandfather's sisters Esther Schantz, born in Munkacs in 1891. I have also found out the birthplace of my great grandfather Samuel Schancz, Dobromil and I have found a member of Jewishgen, who also researches Schantz >from Dobromil who has 4 Schantz brothers ancestors >from Dobromil in the 1820's and 1830's Hersh, Jacob, Louis and Mendel, where Mendel might appear my great great grandfather Menachem Mendel Schantz. I have also learned that my great great grandmother Golda Mirel Greenstein might repose in the desecrated cemetery of Munkacs (Mukachevo). You can see the Schantz family web page at http://www.hoflink.com/~dbaer/schantz.htm and you will see a picture of my great grandparents Samuel and Sarah Schantz taken in New York City in 1920, 81 years ago. They got married in Munkacs in 1885. Enjoy. Dennis Baer New York
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Hungary SIG #Hungary Morgenstern, Newman
#hungary
d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>
As per the recent request I am reposting the
Hungarian-Jewish surnames I am researching. They are Morgenstern and Neuman >from Murska Sobota, Slovenia. My grandfather, Viktor left Murska Sobota in 1920. When he left he had a passport, but on the way it was stolen. I have been trying to locate his birth record from Murska Sobota (without success). It isn't in the year I have for his birth. On the otherhand it is known that he often did not tell the truth about his age. Denise ===== Researching: Newman,Morgenstern(Slovenia) Szall, Nemeth (Vas, Hungary) Szabo, Koch (Beregszasz, Hungary) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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Re: My mtDNA revealed a Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian origin
#dna
Conrad Johansson <holmsjon@...>
Concerning Annee Ani's question about possible Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian
origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Bulgarians were originally a Turkish tribe. The word is related to Volga and an ancient state on the Volga called "Bulgar". Karelian, Finns and Turks are Ural-Altaic, and thus linguistically, and possibly genetically, related. There existed a Turkish-Jewish empire in southern Russia called the Khazar empire during the 10th century until it was devastated by vikings. Costler suggests in "The Thirteenth Tribe" that refugees and other >from the Khazar took part in shaping East European Jewry. sincerely Conrad Johansson Ph D student, Sweden
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DNA Research #DNA Re: My mtDNA revealed a Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian origin
#dna
Conrad Johansson <holmsjon@...>
Concerning Annee Ani's question about possible Bulgarian/Turk/Karelian
origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Bulgarians were originally a Turkish tribe. The word is related to Volga and an ancient state on the Volga called "Bulgar". Karelian, Finns and Turks are Ural-Altaic, and thus linguistically, and possibly genetically, related. There existed a Turkish-Jewish empire in southern Russia called the Khazar empire during the 10th century until it was devastated by vikings. Costler suggests in "The Thirteenth Tribe" that refugees and other >from the Khazar took part in shaping East European Jewry. sincerely Conrad Johansson Ph D student, Sweden
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Anyone know whether those numbers really match my mtDNA printout?
#dna
Annee Ani <annee_ani@...>
Thanks. Do you know who might be interested to take a look at my mtDNA
printout and tell me >from the three "c"s which mutations I do have, what ethnicity? I'm not sure if the 189, 356, and 362 are really mine, as it was given to me by someone who works at Stanford, and I don't know where the numbers came from, but I have the basic mtDNA prinout >from Oxfordancestors.com. Any suggestions? Thanks Annee Please answer privately MODERATOR ON DUTY _________________________________________________________________
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DNA Research #DNA Anyone know whether those numbers really match my mtDNA printout?
#dna
Annee Ani <annee_ani@...>
Thanks. Do you know who might be interested to take a look at my mtDNA
printout and tell me >from the three "c"s which mutations I do have, what ethnicity? I'm not sure if the 189, 356, and 362 are really mine, as it was given to me by someone who works at Stanford, and I don't know where the numbers came from, but I have the basic mtDNA prinout >from Oxfordancestors.com. Any suggestions? Thanks Annee Please answer privately MODERATOR ON DUTY _________________________________________________________________
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