Date   

Vinnitska or Vinniskyia Gubernia #general

DGoldman <dgoldman@...>
 

Stephen and others interested in the Ukraine:
The town of Vinnitsa is in an area West of Kiev Gubernia. I think (but am
not certain) that what's being confused is a Gubernia and an Uezd (a
sub-section of a Gubernia). Vinnitsa appears to be part of the Podolskoye
Gubernie.

. . . . This Gubernia of the Imperial Russian Empire . . . might be in the
Ukraine . . . .

Diane Goldman <dgoldman@erols.com>
Bethesda, MD


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Vinnitska or Vinniskyia Gubernia #general

DGoldman <dgoldman@...>
 

Stephen and others interested in the Ukraine:
The town of Vinnitsa is in an area West of Kiev Gubernia. I think (but am
not certain) that what's being confused is a Gubernia and an Uezd (a
sub-section of a Gubernia). Vinnitsa appears to be part of the Podolskoye
Gubernie.

. . . . This Gubernia of the Imperial Russian Empire . . . might be in the
Ukraine . . . .

Diane Goldman <dgoldman@erols.com>
Bethesda, MD


Re: FTJP CD #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Ian Singer asks:

"They are names of what group of people? What's the purpose of the CD
for those of us who have never heard of it?"

The Family Tree of the Jewish People is online, in Jewishgen, at
http://www.jewishgen.org/gedcom. It is family trees sent in by
genealogists like me. Having a CD might be something to study at your
leisure when not on line; the information is undoubtably the same. You
must be new not to have heard of it, as it was created not so long ago
and contains the information >from the Dorot Center and others.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: Geborin/Geboren #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I think the word Victoria is looking at is not "geborin" but "geboren" which
in German, Dutch and Flemish means "to be born".

Joelle Lewkowicz van den Berg
**That is correct as to the meaning of the verb, but note that literally
"geboren" means simply "born" (i.e. it is the past participle of the
German verb "gebaeren" meaning "to bear") Thus, whenever the
abbreviation "geb." appears beside someone's name (e.g. "geb. 1857") it
means exactly the same as "b." (e.g., "b. 1857" )

Judith Romney Wegner


Births and deaths on US boats landing at New York #general

Maurice Hoffman <Rosie@...>
 

Dear Genners

I have seen the jewish gen info file on the names of passengers landing.
Were there any procedures for the captain to report births and deaths on the
voyage? Are there any archives of ships logs. I am interested in the St
Paul that went >from Southampton to New York in 1906.

thanks

Maurice Hoffman
Wembley
Email: RosieHA9@bigfoot.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: FTJP CD #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Ian Singer asks:

"They are names of what group of people? What's the purpose of the CD
for those of us who have never heard of it?"

The Family Tree of the Jewish People is online, in Jewishgen, at
http://www.jewishgen.org/gedcom. It is family trees sent in by
genealogists like me. Having a CD might be something to study at your
leisure when not on line; the information is undoubtably the same. You
must be new not to have heard of it, as it was created not so long ago
and contains the information >from the Dorot Center and others.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Geborin/Geboren #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I think the word Victoria is looking at is not "geborin" but "geboren" which
in German, Dutch and Flemish means "to be born".

Joelle Lewkowicz van den Berg
**That is correct as to the meaning of the verb, but note that literally
"geboren" means simply "born" (i.e. it is the past participle of the
German verb "gebaeren" meaning "to bear") Thus, whenever the
abbreviation "geb." appears beside someone's name (e.g. "geb. 1857") it
means exactly the same as "b." (e.g., "b. 1857" )

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Births and deaths on US boats landing at New York #general

Maurice Hoffman <Rosie@...>
 

Dear Genners

I have seen the jewish gen info file on the names of passengers landing.
Were there any procedures for the captain to report births and deaths on the
voyage? Are there any archives of ships logs. I am interested in the St
Paul that went >from Southampton to New York in 1906.

thanks

Maurice Hoffman
Wembley
Email: RosieHA9@bigfoot.com


Followup re " Looking for material on Rachov in the Ukraine" #general

NFatouros@...
 

I was still online when I sent off my message responding to Mr. Feig's
"Rachov"inquiry of 12-30-00, so I hadn't yet carefully read the longish
translation by E.M Ganin of the Sefer Marmarash. When I read it offline, I
saw that there is passing mention of a Herzel FEIG, a Meier FEIG, a Gabbai
called Mordecai FEIG, and a Nathan FEIG. I think Mr. Assaf FEIG will be
pleased to find these names at the website whose URL I inserted in my
message at the last moment before sending it.

And, I admit,that now I am pleased with myself for having found the
right Rachov which I wasn't really quite sure about in view of other
possibilities I'd come upon!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


FTJP CD - Explanation #general

Howard Margol
 

I apologize for not being more explicit in my recent message about the
release of the new FTJP CD. Following is what I hope will be answers to the
following questions I have been asked to explain.

(1) What does FTJP stand for? Family Tree of the Jewish People.

(2) What does the almost 2 million names mean and where did they come from?
In October, 1999 I was privileged to sign a Tripartite Agreement between
IAJGS, Jewishgen, and Beth Hatefutsoth in Israel in which all three
organizations agreed to share the family trees that had been submitted to
their organization. The FTJP CD was produced by IAJGS in accordance with
the agreement. It contains the family trees submitted to any of the three
organizations, provided permission was received >from the original submitter
to include their family tree on the CD.

A large number of the family trees can also be viewed on Jewishgen, or at
Beth Hatefutsoth in Israel. The original submitter was given the choice of
having their family tree appear on one, two, or all three places. The only
way to access all of the family trees submitted is to purchase the CD,
check out Jewishgen, and visit Beth Hatefutsoth.

(3) Will the CD work on a Mac computer? I have asked Bruce Kahn to answer
that question by placing a message on Jewishgen and the IAJGS Presidents
Forum.

I hope I have answered all questions posed.

Howard Margol
President, IAJGS


Records in Archives in Ukraine #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I am in the midst of doing research in Ukraine regarding
these surnames:

OBERMAN / HUBERMAN / GUBERMAN
LISS / LIS / LYS
SOBLE / SOBEL / SOBOL

In Ukraine, my family lived in Kamenets Podolskiy.

A year ago, I wondered: "What records are actually available
at archives for my area of Ukraine."

Now, in the midst of much research for Ukraine, I have a
somewhat incomplete picture of what documents are available.
But the picture I have is far clearer than it was a year
ago! I have made a list of documents I have found that
are of interest to me in these archives:

Kamenets Podolskiy Archives
Rovno Archives
Vinnitsa Archives
Zhitomir Archives

These documents include records for the places listed below.
(I am sorry that this is a mixed list--some towns, and some
larger regions.)

Balsky uyezd
Berezno, Kostopolye uyezd
Derazhnya, Kostopolye uyezd
Izyaslav (Zaslav)
Izyaslav (Zaslav) Uezd
Kamenets
Khmelnitskiy (Proskurov)
Khmelnitskiy (Proskurov) Uezd
Kostopolye=20
Krasilov
Letichev uyezd
Litin uyezd
Ludvipol, Kostopolye uyezd
Mogilev
Mogilev Podolskiy Uezd
Mogilev Podolsky
Mogilev uyezd
Nikolayev (=3DMikolajow)
Ostrog povet=20
Podol Guberniya=20
Proskurov uyezd
Rovno
Rovno uyezd
Starokonstantinov synagogue
Stepan, Kostopolye uyezd
Vinnitsa
Vinnitsa uyezd
Volyn Guberniya

I don't know if the following information is of any use to
any reader. But, just in case, here is a simple web page
that I have made that lists the documents I have found (via
a researcher) that relate to the places listed above. (It
is a simple and crude document, not a polished report.)

http://www.kazez.com/users/dan/1231-UkrArch.html

And here is a map that lists the towns of greatest interest
to me:

http://kazez.com/users/dan/ukrmap1230.gif

If there are errors in my map above, please let me know.

Dan

P.S. Other information on my surnames may be found here:

http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/ent/fam.html

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Springfield, Ohio USA


Calling cemeteries for information #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

When you consider calling cemeteries for information, keep in mind
that at some of them, no one reads Hebrew.

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Followup re " Looking for material on Rachov in the Ukraine" #general

NFatouros@...
 

I was still online when I sent off my message responding to Mr. Feig's
"Rachov"inquiry of 12-30-00, so I hadn't yet carefully read the longish
translation by E.M Ganin of the Sefer Marmarash. When I read it offline, I
saw that there is passing mention of a Herzel FEIG, a Meier FEIG, a Gabbai
called Mordecai FEIG, and a Nathan FEIG. I think Mr. Assaf FEIG will be
pleased to find these names at the website whose URL I inserted in my
message at the last moment before sending it.

And, I admit,that now I am pleased with myself for having found the
right Rachov which I wasn't really quite sure about in view of other
possibilities I'd come upon!

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FTJP CD - Explanation #general

Howard Margol
 

I apologize for not being more explicit in my recent message about the
release of the new FTJP CD. Following is what I hope will be answers to the
following questions I have been asked to explain.

(1) What does FTJP stand for? Family Tree of the Jewish People.

(2) What does the almost 2 million names mean and where did they come from?
In October, 1999 I was privileged to sign a Tripartite Agreement between
IAJGS, Jewishgen, and Beth Hatefutsoth in Israel in which all three
organizations agreed to share the family trees that had been submitted to
their organization. The FTJP CD was produced by IAJGS in accordance with
the agreement. It contains the family trees submitted to any of the three
organizations, provided permission was received >from the original submitter
to include their family tree on the CD.

A large number of the family trees can also be viewed on Jewishgen, or at
Beth Hatefutsoth in Israel. The original submitter was given the choice of
having their family tree appear on one, two, or all three places. The only
way to access all of the family trees submitted is to purchase the CD,
check out Jewishgen, and visit Beth Hatefutsoth.

(3) Will the CD work on a Mac computer? I have asked Bruce Kahn to answer
that question by placing a message on Jewishgen and the IAJGS Presidents
Forum.

I hope I have answered all questions posed.

Howard Margol
President, IAJGS


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Records in Archives in Ukraine #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I am in the midst of doing research in Ukraine regarding
these surnames:

OBERMAN / HUBERMAN / GUBERMAN
LISS / LIS / LYS
SOBLE / SOBEL / SOBOL

In Ukraine, my family lived in Kamenets Podolskiy.

A year ago, I wondered: "What records are actually available
at archives for my area of Ukraine."

Now, in the midst of much research for Ukraine, I have a
somewhat incomplete picture of what documents are available.
But the picture I have is far clearer than it was a year
ago! I have made a list of documents I have found that
are of interest to me in these archives:

Kamenets Podolskiy Archives
Rovno Archives
Vinnitsa Archives
Zhitomir Archives

These documents include records for the places listed below.
(I am sorry that this is a mixed list--some towns, and some
larger regions.)

Balsky uyezd
Berezno, Kostopolye uyezd
Derazhnya, Kostopolye uyezd
Izyaslav (Zaslav)
Izyaslav (Zaslav) Uezd
Kamenets
Khmelnitskiy (Proskurov)
Khmelnitskiy (Proskurov) Uezd
Kostopolye=20
Krasilov
Letichev uyezd
Litin uyezd
Ludvipol, Kostopolye uyezd
Mogilev
Mogilev Podolskiy Uezd
Mogilev Podolsky
Mogilev uyezd
Nikolayev (=3DMikolajow)
Ostrog povet=20
Podol Guberniya=20
Proskurov uyezd
Rovno
Rovno uyezd
Starokonstantinov synagogue
Stepan, Kostopolye uyezd
Vinnitsa
Vinnitsa uyezd
Volyn Guberniya

I don't know if the following information is of any use to
any reader. But, just in case, here is a simple web page
that I have made that lists the documents I have found (via
a researcher) that relate to the places listed above. (It
is a simple and crude document, not a polished report.)

http://www.kazez.com/users/dan/1231-UkrArch.html

And here is a map that lists the towns of greatest interest
to me:

http://kazez.com/users/dan/ukrmap1230.gif

If there are errors in my map above, please let me know.

Dan

P.S. Other information on my surnames may be found here:

http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/ent/fam.html

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Springfield, Ohio USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Calling cemeteries for information #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

When you consider calling cemeteries for information, keep in mind
that at some of them, no one reads Hebrew.

Israel Pickholtz


Re: Ethical Question, Found Date Discrepany on Cemetary Headstone #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

When one of my aunts died, her daughter asked me if I knew her date of
birth. She needed it for the cemetery. I could only approximate. Since I
knew my father's birthdate, I looked at two photos of his family and
figured she was about seven years younger than he. But this was only an
approximation. I think that her date of birth was fudged because she
married before her older sister, so the family just made her older sister
younger! Actually they were only about a year apart in age anyway. My
mother was three years older than my father and when they came to America
he subtracted six years >from her age. She always looked much younger
anyway. When it came time for her to claim social security she took my
birth certificate along for proof because there her correct age was listed.
When it comes to age ther are so many considerations: vanity, the draft,
etc.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: LSHAPSKI [mailto:lshapski@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:23 AM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Ethical Question, Found Date Discrepany on Cemetary
Headstone

My grandmother's headstone also indicates that she was younger (by about 6
or 7 years) at the time of death than was actually the case. I originally
assumed that this was an error on the part of those who gave the
information for the headstone. But later, her youngest daughter told me
that the oldest one had deliberately given this misinformation - because
she didn't want those viewing the headstone to realize how old she, the
daughter, was! So don't assume they don't already know. My guess is that
even if they don't know, the fact that the date is off would probably not
upset them anyway. In the larger scheme of things, what difference does it
make? They could, however, be upset if you reveal the correct date to
other family members, if the age was deliberately made younger as it was in
my family.

Many, many people born in Europe in the last century or early in this one
(and some born in the U.S. during that same period) did not know their
exact dates of birth, and their children may not have known even what they
knew. But it probably never mattered much to them either.

Of course, everyone is different, and these particular relatives may care.
There should be a way to phrase what you tell them as a question rather
than a statement that there is a definite error. And that might even lead
to a family story such as the one my aunt told me. Good luck! (I'd be
curious as to how it goes.)

Lynne Shapiro
Western Mass.


Re: British Landsmannschaften #general

mpfreed28315861@...
 

In article <3A4C43B3.768D@tesco.net>,
snillop@tesco.net wrote:

A supplement to Harvey Kaplan's message.
Raymond Kalman has researched Jewish Friendly Societies in
Britain and has published his findings in the Jewish History Review (of
the Jewish Historical Society of England). I regret I do not have the
reference to hand - but I am sure it was published within the last ten
years.
The equivalent of landsmanshaften in the UK were Jewish friendly
societies which at one time had thousands of members. The passage of
time, the advent of the National Health Service in 1948 and, in
particular, increasing affluence, sounded their death knell. Raymond
Kalman has done much research on them, but there is also a lot of
information on them in "A History of the Jews in Britain since 1858" by
V.D.Lipman.
Consult also Jewish Year Books of the first fifty years or so of the
last century which list the different movements and their constituent
lodges and personel. One of the movements - the Grand Order of Israel
and Shield of David - still has six lodges currently operating.

Murray Freedman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Ethical Question, Found Date Discrepany on Cemetary Headstone #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

When one of my aunts died, her daughter asked me if I knew her date of
birth. She needed it for the cemetery. I could only approximate. Since I
knew my father's birthdate, I looked at two photos of his family and
figured she was about seven years younger than he. But this was only an
approximation. I think that her date of birth was fudged because she
married before her older sister, so the family just made her older sister
younger! Actually they were only about a year apart in age anyway. My
mother was three years older than my father and when they came to America
he subtracted six years >from her age. She always looked much younger
anyway. When it came time for her to claim social security she took my
birth certificate along for proof because there her correct age was listed.
When it comes to age ther are so many considerations: vanity, the draft,
etc.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: LSHAPSKI [mailto:lshapski@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:23 AM
To: JewishGen Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Ethical Question, Found Date Discrepany on Cemetary
Headstone

My grandmother's headstone also indicates that she was younger (by about 6
or 7 years) at the time of death than was actually the case. I originally
assumed that this was an error on the part of those who gave the
information for the headstone. But later, her youngest daughter told me
that the oldest one had deliberately given this misinformation - because
she didn't want those viewing the headstone to realize how old she, the
daughter, was! So don't assume they don't already know. My guess is that
even if they don't know, the fact that the date is off would probably not
upset them anyway. In the larger scheme of things, what difference does it
make? They could, however, be upset if you reveal the correct date to
other family members, if the age was deliberately made younger as it was in
my family.

Many, many people born in Europe in the last century or early in this one
(and some born in the U.S. during that same period) did not know their
exact dates of birth, and their children may not have known even what they
knew. But it probably never mattered much to them either.

Of course, everyone is different, and these particular relatives may care.
There should be a way to phrase what you tell them as a question rather
than a statement that there is a definite error. And that might even lead
to a family story such as the one my aunt told me. Good luck! (I'd be
curious as to how it goes.)

Lynne Shapiro
Western Mass.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: British Landsmannschaften #general

mpfreed28315861@...
 

In article <3A4C43B3.768D@tesco.net>,
snillop@tesco.net wrote:

A supplement to Harvey Kaplan's message.
Raymond Kalman has researched Jewish Friendly Societies in
Britain and has published his findings in the Jewish History Review (of
the Jewish Historical Society of England). I regret I do not have the
reference to hand - but I am sure it was published within the last ten
years.
The equivalent of landsmanshaften in the UK were Jewish friendly
societies which at one time had thousands of members. The passage of
time, the advent of the National Health Service in 1948 and, in
particular, increasing affluence, sounded their death knell. Raymond
Kalman has done much research on them, but there is also a lot of
information on them in "A History of the Jews in Britain since 1858" by
V.D.Lipman.
Consult also Jewish Year Books of the first fifty years or so of the
last century which list the different movements and their constituent
lodges and personel. One of the movements - the Grand Order of Israel
and Shield of David - still has six lodges currently operating.

Murray Freedman