Hello List members,

I also have relatives who came >from Grodno, but I have not yet been able
to find out if they were >from the city or just somewhere in the Gubernia.
Regardless, I am currently trying to find descendants on my maternal
grandfather's side. He was Jacob KOPELMAN, born in 1866; he came to the
US in the 1880s, I think arriving in NY. He met his future wife when she
came to the US probably in 1889 or 1890. Her name was Lena Lifschitz,
and she also came >from Grodno originally. They eventually moved to North
Dakota and wound up in Fargo after some time in Park River and Grand Forks.

The main reason for my writing this note is that I recently found out the
names of Jacob's two brothers: Phillip and Morris. They also came to the
US. I don't know whether they were older or younger than Jacob. I do
know that Morris married a woman named Sarah, that they had four children
(Herman, Gertrude, Rose and Ted), and that by sometime in the 1920s they
lived in the Chicago area. Our family completely lost touch with them
sometime after that. Does anyone know any of these people's descendants?
I may have distant cousins that I have never met!

Also, for those of you in Israel, the other part of this story is that
Morris left his American family, moved to what was then Palestine, and
began a new life with a new wife there. So I may have Kopelman cousins
in Israel as well.

I don't know anything else about Phillip Kopelman except that I think he
was a doctor. If anyone can shed some light on anything here, I would
love to hear >from you.

Lois Saval Finstein
Framingham, MA
Lafamf@aol.com

Dear Charlotte,
Radoshkovich is today in Belarus, 24 miles NW of Minsk at 54 09'/27 14'.
There is a yizkor book, much of which has been translated into English, and a
165 page memoir written in English by Abe Isaacson. Contact me if you want
more details.

--Steve Rosen
Researching SHEPSENWOHL and DINNERSTEIN in Radoshkovich, Ilya, Kurenets, and
Volozhin, Belarus

Hello List members,

I also have relatives who came >from Grodno, but I have not yet been able
to find out if they were >from the city or just somewhere in the Gubernia.
Regardless, I am currently trying to find descendants on my maternal
grandfather's side. He was Jacob KOPELMAN, born in 1866; he came to the
US in the 1880s, I think arriving in NY. He met his future wife when she
came to the US probably in 1889 or 1890. Her name was Lena Lifschitz,
and she also came >from Grodno originally. They eventually moved to North
Dakota and wound up in Fargo after some time in Park River and Grand Forks.

The main reason for my writing this note is that I recently found out the
names of Jacob's two brothers: Phillip and Morris. They also came to the
US. I don't know whether they were older or younger than Jacob. I do
know that Morris married a woman named Sarah, that they had four children
(Herman, Gertrude, Rose and Ted), and that by sometime in the 1920s they
lived in the Chicago area. Our family completely lost touch with them
sometime after that. Does anyone know any of these people's descendants?
I may have distant cousins that I have never met!

Also, for those of you in Israel, the other part of this story is that
Morris left his American family, moved to what was then Palestine, and
began a new life with a new wife there. So I may have Kopelman cousins
in Israel as well.

I don't know anything else about Phillip Kopelman except that I think he
was a doctor. If anyone can shed some light on anything here, I would
love to hear >from you.

Lois Saval Finstein
Framingham, MA
Lafamf@aol.com

Dear Charlotte,
Radoshkovich is today in Belarus, 24 miles NW of Minsk at 54 09'/27 14'.
There is a yizkor book, much of which has been translated into English, and a
165 page memoir written in English by Abe Isaacson. Contact me if you want
more details.

--Steve Rosen
Researching SHEPSENWOHL and DINNERSTEIN in Radoshkovich, Ilya, Kurenets, and
Volozhin, Belarus

There is at least one failure in the translation.

David and BethLong schrieb:

Re: Hungarian Adresses

As to the name Olahne, I assume it appears thus [Last Name] Olahne ? This would be the
widow of Olah [Last Name]. I have seen Olah (meaning Romanian) as a last name, but not as
a first name, so this seems kind of odd. If you give me the whole name, I could say.

Olah mean Wallach(ian), Romanian according my dictionary, but names of nations are quite
frequently used as last names in the Hungarian, i.e. Magyar, Nemet, Sved, Toth, etc.
Olahne is in my opinion lastname, the ending ...-ne indicates it. It means the wife of
..... not depending whether the husband is living or notThe widow of XYZ would write (if
she wants) ozv. XYZne, ozv. is the abreviation of ozvegy or widow.

By the way, I assume everyone knows that Hungarians write their names as
Last Name/First name? This cam be confusing if you have relatives like we
do with surnames that are also given names. For example, we have a Fabian
Sebestyen, but also a Sebestyen Fabian in the family.

I don't think it is less confusing as in other languages, with family names like Peter,
Gabor (Gabor Zsazsa), and phonebooks use actually the Hungarian way of writing, lastname,
firstname

Beth Long

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

There is at least one failure in the translation.

David and BethLong schrieb:

Re: Hungarian Adresses

As to the name Olahne, I assume it appears thus [Last Name] Olahne ? This would be the
widow of Olah [Last Name]. I have seen Olah (meaning Romanian) as a last name, but not as
a first name, so this seems kind of odd. If you give me the whole name, I could say.

Olah mean Wallach(ian), Romanian according my dictionary, but names of nations are quite
frequently used as last names in the Hungarian, i.e. Magyar, Nemet, Sved, Toth, etc.
Olahne is in my opinion lastname, the ending ...-ne indicates it. It means the wife of
..... not depending whether the husband is living or notThe widow of XYZ would write (if
she wants) ozv. XYZne, ozv. is the abreviation of ozvegy or widow.

By the way, I assume everyone knows that Hungarians write their names as
Last Name/First name? This cam be confusing if you have relatives like we
do with surnames that are also given names. For example, we have a Fabian
Sebestyen, but also a Sebestyen Fabian in the family.

I don't think it is less confusing as in other languages, with family names like Peter,
Gabor (Gabor Zsazsa), and phonebooks use actually the Hungarian way of writing, lastname,
firstname

Beth Long

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

If you have a relative who lived in Harrisburg, PA and who was a
member of Kesher Israel, an Orthodox Congregation, I can check the
cemetery Index for you to see if, in fact, that relative is buried in
KI's cemetery.

My information covers the years >from "inception" through 12/31/93. If
you have a query contact me privately at the email address below:

iris-macsie@home.com

Iris
--
_____________________________________________________
Iris B. Sitkin
iris-macsie@home.com

If you have a relative who lived in Harrisburg, PA and who was a
member of Kesher Israel, an Orthodox Congregation, I can check the
cemetery Index for you to see if, in fact, that relative is buried in
KI's cemetery.

My information covers the years >from "inception" through 12/31/93. If
you have a query contact me privately at the email address below:

iris-macsie@home.com

Iris
--
_____________________________________________________
Iris B. Sitkin
iris-macsie@home.com

Gilbert Herbert of Haifa responded to a prior message by David Shapiro
of Texas as follows:

"The origin of the name Getzel.
My Hebrew name is Eliakim Getzel, as was my great-grandfather's. I
understand that the two names usually go together, the first being the
Hebrew name, the second a kinui. I believe that Getzel derives originally

from the German Gottschalk, though I doubt if this was the case for my

ancestor >from Dvinsk."

The Hebrew name Eliakim Getzel is a formal and legal Hebrew double
name, one that is used to call a man to the Tora for an aliya, and as
the correct name for a man in a Jewish document (such as a ketuva, get,
contract). The first name Eliakim is an original Hebrew name and the
second name Getzel is the diminutive of the Yiddish name Getz. The
origin of the Yiddish names Getz and Getzel is in the German name
Goetz. German-based given names were popular in Latvia since the
German culture and language were strong there. The Yiddish name
Gottschalk derives >from a similar old German name, and is considered by
some to be a kinui of Eliezer.

Shavu'a tov

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
<jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>

Gilbert Herbert of Haifa responded to a prior message by David Shapiro
of Texas as follows:

"The origin of the name Getzel.
My Hebrew name is Eliakim Getzel, as was my great-grandfather's. I
understand that the two names usually go together, the first being the
Hebrew name, the second a kinui. I believe that Getzel derives originally

from the German Gottschalk, though I doubt if this was the case for my

ancestor >from Dvinsk."

The Hebrew name Eliakim Getzel is a formal and legal Hebrew double
name, one that is used to call a man to the Tora for an aliya, and as
the correct name for a man in a Jewish document (such as a ketuva, get,
contract). The first name Eliakim is an original Hebrew name and the
second name Getzel is the diminutive of the Yiddish name Getz. The
origin of the Yiddish names Getz and Getzel is in the German name
Goetz. German-based given names were popular in Latvia since the
German culture and language were strong there. The Yiddish name
Gottschalk derives >from a similar old German name, and is considered by
some to be a kinui of Eliezer.

Shavu'a tov

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
<jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>

The origin of the name Getzel.
My Hebrew name is Eliakim Getzel, as was my great-grandfather's. I
understand that the two names usually go together, the first being the
Hebrew name, the second a kinui. I believe that Getzel derives originally

from the German Gottschalk, though I doubt if this was the case for my

ancestor >from Dvinsk.

I believe Gilbert is right if Getzel was actually >from G=F6tz. In fact, my
GGGGF was named Elyakim G=F6tz Behr BERNET. That was in Germany. In Latvia,
I did notice when I was databasing some microfilms, that some of the Getzel
had Chatzkel antecedents. That is why I proposed that as an explanation.
However, we all know that name changes are not always consistent!

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel.

Searching for information on Chaim Zelig (my great grandfather) and his son,
Simon Seril >from the Preli area of Latvia. Any suggestions???

Thanks
Scott Seril
Virginia, USA

The origin of the name Getzel.
My Hebrew name is Eliakim Getzel, as was my great-grandfather's. I
understand that the two names usually go together, the first being the
Hebrew name, the second a kinui. I believe that Getzel derives originally

from the German Gottschalk, though I doubt if this was the case for my

ancestor >from Dvinsk.

I believe Gilbert is right if Getzel was actually >from G=F6tz. In fact, my
GGGGF was named Elyakim G=F6tz Behr BERNET. That was in Germany. In Latvia,
I did notice when I was databasing some microfilms, that some of the Getzel
had Chatzkel antecedents. That is why I proposed that as an explanation.
However, we all know that name changes are not always consistent!

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel.

Searching for information on Chaim Zelig (my great grandfather) and his son,
Simon Seril >from the Preli area of Latvia. Any suggestions???

Thanks
Scott Seril
Virginia, USA

Indexing is available online as well as hardcopy. All you need to do is make
sure you use the feature in your software. Indexing doesn't happen
automatically for hardcopy either. Both medias require someone, an editor
or writer, to take some sort of action to make an index.

If 40% of computers lack connectivity, than these 40% are not participating
in this email dialogue to begin with. To put anyone online, participants in
this email chain (by definition they must already be online) or the other
40%, requires only a modem, a phone line, a free internet provider (if you
don't know one send me an email and I will give you the one I use, and help
you set it up via email or phone), and a free email address (again, would be
glad to suggest and assist to anyone sending me an email...for the
non-internet connect, nonemail folks I have a pager for returning calls.).

I still think the best solution is to create and edit a newsletter
electronically. I would be surprised if this is being done anyother way
nowdays anyways. I think Microsoft WORD rules over typeset. How is it
being prepared today? It can then be available through multiple distribution
channels. I particularly liked the PDF recommendation (though it could also
be in a WORD format), as that is how all software documentation is currently
being distributed. When you purchase the software, you get a CD with the
software and the PDF documentation file. You can either look at the file
online, or you can print it off (buy a printer, or make a trip to Kinkos).
In this situation I think flexibility is the key, and pricing should be set
by the cost required for the distribution media chosen. All you people who
want paper, mailed, just pay for it. Personally I'd like to see
JewishGen.Org funds used for obtaining and publishing more genealogical data
ONLINE, not for paper and postage for personal preference.

Choices are:
1) Paper, mailed
2) PDF or WORD, shipped on CD (does everyone have CDs on their machines
now?)
You can look at it online, print a hardcopy, and go back to old CDs for
old issues.
You can also highlight, in WORD, I do it all the time when reading
online.
3) PDF accessible via Web. I like the WEB cause I can put it on my
favorites menu, and
go back to it time and time again. If I don't want to be logged into
read it, I store
it on my local macine, but copying it to WORD.
4) PDF distributed via email or digest format

Notice you create the PDF or WORD file, and then you have all these
distribution options available. Charging for it, involves hooking up the
same credit card authorization functionality currently being used for
Jewishgen-eroisty on the JewishGen.Org site. Same thing for hardcopy. Look
at Amazon.COM. They have an inventory (could be all the back issues), you
go in pick the one you want, select a ship to address, a bill to address,
give them your credit card, and then send you the pound of paper.

Leslie Gyi nee FEIG

P.S. While I am able to write code in many languages, I prefer to think of
myself as a solutions provider because you need to look at the user
processes and procedures that surround the software. Its a product the user
needs, and thought needs to be given on how to deliver that in a usable
format. No two users are alike, and the solution needs to be flexible. To
look at only one solution is to live in the 1960s mainframe computer writing
COBOL code.

Indexing is available online as well as hardcopy. All you need to do is make
sure you use the feature in your software. Indexing doesn't happen
automatically for hardcopy either. Both medias require someone, an editor
or writer, to take some sort of action to make an index.

If 40% of computers lack connectivity, than these 40% are not participating
in this email dialogue to begin with. To put anyone online, participants in
this email chain (by definition they must already be online) or the other
40%, requires only a modem, a phone line, a free internet provider (if you
don't know one send me an email and I will give you the one I use, and help
you set it up via email or phone), and a free email address (again, would be
glad to suggest and assist to anyone sending me an email...for the
non-internet connect, nonemail folks I have a pager for returning calls.).

I still think the best solution is to create and edit a newsletter
electronically. I would be surprised if this is being done anyother way
nowdays anyways. I think Microsoft WORD rules over typeset. How is it
being prepared today? It can then be available through multiple distribution
channels. I particularly liked the PDF recommendation (though it could also
be in a WORD format), as that is how all software documentation is currently
being distributed. When you purchase the software, you get a CD with the
software and the PDF documentation file. You can either look at the file
online, or you can print it off (buy a printer, or make a trip to Kinkos).
In this situation I think flexibility is the key, and pricing should be set
by the cost required for the distribution media chosen. All you people who
want paper, mailed, just pay for it. Personally I'd like to see
JewishGen.Org funds used for obtaining and publishing more genealogical data
ONLINE, not for paper and postage for personal preference.

Choices are:
1) Paper, mailed
2) PDF or WORD, shipped on CD (does everyone have CDs on their machines
now?)
You can look at it online, print a hardcopy, and go back to old CDs for
old issues.
You can also highlight, in WORD, I do it all the time when reading
online.
3) PDF accessible via Web. I like the WEB cause I can put it on my
favorites menu, and
go back to it time and time again. If I don't want to be logged into
read it, I store
it on my local macine, but copying it to WORD.
4) PDF distributed via email or digest format

Notice you create the PDF or WORD file, and then you have all these
distribution options available. Charging for it, involves hooking up the
same credit card authorization functionality currently being used for
Jewishgen-eroisty on the JewishGen.Org site. Same thing for hardcopy. Look
at Amazon.COM. They have an inventory (could be all the back issues), you
go in pick the one you want, select a ship to address, a bill to address,
give them your credit card, and then send you the pound of paper.

Leslie Gyi nee FEIG

P.S. While I am able to write code in many languages, I prefer to think of
myself as a solutions provider because you need to look at the user
processes and procedures that surround the software. Its a product the user
needs, and thought needs to be given on how to deliver that in a usable
format. No two users are alike, and the solution needs to be flexible. To
look at only one solution is to live in the 1960s mainframe computer writing
COBOL code.

It seems to me that many people agree that online AND print is the best way
forward which leaves us back with thr original problem of finding an editor.
Does anyone who wants the newsletter to remain in print wish to edit it?
Could this be shared?
I would be interested in sharing (maybe only once a year) the job...
Leslie Safran Barson

It seems to me that many people agree that online AND print is the best way
forward which leaves us back with thr original problem of finding an editor.
Does anyone who wants the newsletter to remain in print wish to edit it?
Could this be shared?
I would be interested in sharing (maybe only once a year) the job...
Leslie Safran Barson

I have kept my mouth shut on this subject since I am not a dues-
paying member of Gesher Galicia.

But if I were, I'd want to receive the print copy, so I could read it on
Shabbes.

Israel Pickholtz

I have kept my mouth shut on this subject since I am not a dues-
paying member of Gesher Galicia.

But if I were, I'd want to receive the print copy, so I could read it on
Shabbes.

Israel Pickholtz