I've been trying to figure out whether my maternal grandmother came
originally >from the city of Grodno or whether when she said she was from
Grodno, she meant somewhere/ anywhere within the Gubernya.

According to my mother, her parents' was an arranged marriage. I don't
know if this means the families knew each other and arranged it between
them or whether they used a matchmaker to find suitable partners outside
their immediate locality.

What I do know is that my grandfather was buried by the Wisoke-Litovsk
Bruder in NY and that an uncle claimed on his WWI draft reg. to be from
Brisk (Brest-Litovsk).

So my question is: how far afield is a family likely to have gone to
find a match? Would my grandmother, too, be >from the Brest area
(Vysokoye is just north of Brest) or could they have gone as far as the
city of Grodno? (I don't know whether there might have been relatives
there who would have been instrumental in this).

Joy Weaver


POLAND (Zaklikow & Krasnick, Lublin): Blumberg, Fogiel, Rozenel./
BELARUS (Brest area, Grodno): Feinberg, Vilner, Greenberg.

I've been trying to figure out whether my maternal grandmother came
originally >from the city of Grodno or whether when she said she was from
Grodno, she meant somewhere/ anywhere within the Gubernya.

According to my mother, her parents' was an arranged marriage. I don't
know if this means the families knew each other and arranged it between
them or whether they used a matchmaker to find suitable partners outside
their immediate locality.

What I do know is that my grandfather was buried by the Wisoke-Litovsk
Bruder in NY and that an uncle claimed on his WWI draft reg. to be from
Brisk (Brest-Litovsk).

So my question is: how far afield is a family likely to have gone to
find a match? Would my grandmother, too, be >from the Brest area
(Vysokoye is just north of Brest) or could they have gone as far as the
city of Grodno? (I don't know whether there might have been relatives
there who would have been instrumental in this).

Joy Weaver


POLAND (Zaklikow & Krasnick, Lublin): Blumberg, Fogiel, Rozenel./
BELARUS (Brest area, Grodno): Feinberg, Vilner, Greenberg.

Dear JewishGenners:

My limited pre-revolutionary Russian abilities have reached their true
limits. Posted as VM 208 is an 1871 Russian marriage record >from Ostrow
Mazowiecka (not Ostroleka as the caption says). I can pick out a few
words, like the first one ("Ostrov'") and the names of the bride and
groom, Sura SHVARTSBORG and Gershek BALBIER. (Sura was my
great-great-great-aunt. I know some of their descendants in the USA.)
Could someone translate the following details:

1) Ages and professions of the bride and groom
2) Parents (and grandparents, if listed) names and professions
3) Date and place of marriage (I think I see the word "March", but I might
be wrong)
4) Other interesting details, like witnesses, etc.

Thanks in advance!

-Steve Cohen
scohen@rutchem.rutgers.edu

Dear JewishGenners:

My limited pre-revolutionary Russian abilities have reached their true
limits. Posted as VM 208 is an 1871 Russian marriage record >from Ostrow
Mazowiecka (not Ostroleka as the caption says). I can pick out a few
words, like the first one ("Ostrov'") and the names of the bride and
groom, Sura SHVARTSBORG and Gershek BALBIER. (Sura was my
great-great-great-aunt. I know some of their descendants in the USA.)
Could someone translate the following details:

1) Ages and professions of the bride and groom
2) Parents (and grandparents, if listed) names and professions
3) Date and place of marriage (I think I see the word "March", but I might
be wrong)
4) Other interesting details, like witnesses, etc.

Thanks in advance!

-Steve Cohen
scohen@rutchem.rutgers.edu

Adam Davis of Chicago wrote as follows:

>a recently discovered ketubah for my great grandmother Clara Rachlin lists
>her as Koona Sipora bas Moshe (kaf vav nun heh, samech peh resh ?).
>Zipora I get, but Koona? Maybe I'm not pronouncing it right. I always
>associated Clara with Gitl or Gute... Thoughts?

The name Kuna was used in a number of Central and Eastern European
countries (e.g., Poland, Lithuania) for females. Some of the versions
of this name are:

Kuna, Kune, Kunka, Kunya, Kunye

Interestingly, quite similar names were also used for men in these
countries -- not a frequent occurrence. Some researchers believe that
the name came >from the German name Kunegunda, while others specify an
old Spanish name Kuni meaning "cradle, childish, infantile."

Shabbat shalom,

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
<jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>

Adam Davis of Chicago wrote as follows:

>a recently discovered ketubah for my great grandmother Clara Rachlin lists
>her as Koona Sipora bas Moshe (kaf vav nun heh, samech peh resh ?).
>Zipora I get, but Koona? Maybe I'm not pronouncing it right. I always
>associated Clara with Gitl or Gute... Thoughts?

The name Kuna was used in a number of Central and Eastern European
countries (e.g., Poland, Lithuania) for females. Some of the versions
of this name are:

Kuna, Kune, Kunka, Kunya, Kunye

Interestingly, quite similar names were also used for men in these
countries -- not a frequent occurrence. Some researchers believe that
the name came >from the German name Kunegunda, while others specify an
old Spanish name Kuni meaning "cradle, childish, infantile."

Shabbat shalom,

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
<jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>

I have an "Almanach de St. Petersbourg" for 1910 (a sort of Social
Register) which lists businesses. Some of these are starred as
"fournisseurs de la Cour" (purveyors to the Court). It is hard to tell if
any of these firms are Jewish as the proprietors' names are not always
given. There are three tailors: Maison Tedeschi, Maison Henri and
Maison Lidwall, for instance.
Paul Silverstone
paulh@aya.yale.edu

mleonards@my-deja.com wrote:

Previous posters to the JewishGen Discussion Group have made the
following comments:

"This K. Gladstone was "builder to the Tsar"…" Kate Gladstone, 18 Nov
1993
"Supposedly the family patriarch, given name unknown, was a grain
merchant and earned the honorific of 'forester to the czar'." Marci
Glaser, 25 July 1995
"He was by family tradition "a tailer to the Czar."" Joel Ives, 26
March 1996
"She said during the cold war, some friend had gone to Russia doing
genealogy, and found out the original name was Siginoffski, and "he"
was shoemaker to the Tsar…" Lu Juana Cartwright Lipscomb, 16 Dec 2000

I find these statements intriguing, especially because one of my
cousins has a similar story in her family. Supposedly, her great-
grandfather was born in St. Petersburg, where his father was "miller to
the Tsar".

What exactly is meant by these claims? Has anyone ever confirmed such a
lineage?

Monica Leonards
Glenside, PA
mailto:mleonards@my-deja.com

Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@aya.yale.edu

Genners,
I came across my great-grandfather's brother in various records putting his
occupation down as "Cutter." What exactly would this be?

TIA
Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY

I have an "Almanach de St. Petersbourg" for 1910 (a sort of Social
Register) which lists businesses. Some of these are starred as
"fournisseurs de la Cour" (purveyors to the Court). It is hard to tell if
any of these firms are Jewish as the proprietors' names are not always
given. There are three tailors: Maison Tedeschi, Maison Henri and
Maison Lidwall, for instance.
Paul Silverstone
paulh@aya.yale.edu

mleonards@my-deja.com wrote:

Previous posters to the JewishGen Discussion Group have made the
following comments:

"This K. Gladstone was "builder to the Tsar"…" Kate Gladstone, 18 Nov
1993
"Supposedly the family patriarch, given name unknown, was a grain
merchant and earned the honorific of 'forester to the czar'." Marci
Glaser, 25 July 1995
"He was by family tradition "a tailer to the Czar."" Joel Ives, 26
March 1996
"She said during the cold war, some friend had gone to Russia doing
genealogy, and found out the original name was Siginoffski, and "he"
was shoemaker to the Tsar…" Lu Juana Cartwright Lipscomb, 16 Dec 2000

I find these statements intriguing, especially because one of my
cousins has a similar story in her family. Supposedly, her great-
grandfather was born in St. Petersburg, where his father was "miller to
the Tsar".

What exactly is meant by these claims? Has anyone ever confirmed such a
lineage?

Monica Leonards
Glenside, PA
mailto:mleonards@my-deja.com

Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@aya.yale.edu

Genners,
I came across my great-grandfather's brother in various records putting his
occupation down as "Cutter." What exactly would this be?

TIA
Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY

Re the above and Miami Herald...close but no cigar.

True, the death notices are put in by the funeral homes in a list. However,
re obits:The Herald does publish obits of "notable/famous" people written
by a staff writer,but in general the obits that appear as obits are written
by a family member orfriend, submitted to the Herald and paid for using
advertising rates.

Joan Parker
joanparker5850@earthlink.net



Subject: Obituaries vs. Death Notices
From: "IsraelP" <zach4v6@actcom.co.il>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:19:45 +0200
X-Message-Number: 4

A couple of days ago, I asked someone to clip a death notice for a
recent Miami death. I received quite a few responses, but most did
not discern between death notice and obituary and simply suggested
that I check the online Miami Herald.

Since so many people don't seem to know the difference, let me
explain here.

Death notices are small announcements generally put in by the
funeral home. They appear for the vast majority of deaths and most
newspapers do not have them available online.

Obituaries are articles about recent deaths of people the editors
deem important. These are less frequent - maybe a handful a day,
depending on the size of the community - and are usually available
online.

In my case, I had already checked the online Herald and learned that
a) they do not have death notices and b) the person I was interested in
did not warrant an obituary in the minds of the Herald staff.

Israel Pickholtz

Re the above and Miami Herald...close but no cigar.

True, the death notices are put in by the funeral homes in a list. However,
re obits:The Herald does publish obits of "notable/famous" people written
by a staff writer,but in general the obits that appear as obits are written
by a family member orfriend, submitted to the Herald and paid for using
advertising rates.

Joan Parker
joanparker5850@earthlink.net



Subject: Obituaries vs. Death Notices
From: "IsraelP" <zach4v6@actcom.co.il>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:19:45 +0200
X-Message-Number: 4

A couple of days ago, I asked someone to clip a death notice for a
recent Miami death. I received quite a few responses, but most did
not discern between death notice and obituary and simply suggested
that I check the online Miami Herald.

Since so many people don't seem to know the difference, let me
explain here.

Death notices are small announcements generally put in by the
funeral home. They appear for the vast majority of deaths and most
newspapers do not have them available online.

Obituaries are articles about recent deaths of people the editors
deem important. These are less frequent - maybe a handful a day,
depending on the size of the community - and are usually available
online.

In my case, I had already checked the online Herald and learned that
a) they do not have death notices and b) the person I was interested in
did not warrant an obituary in the minds of the Herald staff.

Israel Pickholtz

I'd very much appreciate hearing >from anyone researching or with knowledge
of the names PLAXE/PLAX/PLAKS >from Minsk or Smilovici.

Please respond privately.

Jack Plaxe
Chicago, IL

I'd very much appreciate hearing >from anyone researching or with knowledge
of the names PLAXE/PLAX/PLAKS >from Minsk or Smilovici.

Please respond privately.

Jack Plaxe
Chicago, IL

LitvakSIG President Davida Noyek Handler and I need your help with the
indexing that we are undertaking of the Lithuanian Jewish Vital Records
already filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah. We need you on our team.

We are going to be receiving on CD-ROM these Lithuanian Jewish Vital
Records in Russian (Cyrillic handwriting) and Hebrew handwriting >from the
1800s into the early 1900s. As the team leader, I am interested in finding
team members with a variety of skills and interests, including language
skills, technical computer skills, familiarity with the metrical records

from the Old Russian Empire, and knowledge of Russian/Hebrew/Yiddish names.

Most important of all, however, is a desire to contribute to the knowledge
base of our Jewish family research efforts for Lithuanian Jewry, an
interest in learning, and a willingness to be part of a great team of
fellow researchers/genealogists.

What would your interests and skills be that relate to these areas of
interest? Past involvement with Jewish genealogy projects? Extent of your
own research and towns of interest for research purposes?

Please contact me directly as soon as possible. We can certainly use all
the help we can get. Please do not respond to the JewishGen Digest.

Jeff Miller

E-mail: SingingTM@aol.com

Olney, Maryland

Dear Pamela,

Please publish at ViewMate the scan of this name. It must be
something else then ELORICS, but definitively Hungarian. The suffix
"cs" so indicates, as this is a typical Hungarian suffix. If you
publish it I will try to decode the correct name. Old handwritings
can be very misleading. BTW, the correct given name is Isidor, not
Isador.
Thanks
Tom

At 00:00 -0600 19.12.00, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
>| In researching the ship's passenger records for mygreat-grandfather,
>| Marton Braun (>from Karasz, Hungary)on the ship,Finlandia, Antwerp to
>| NYC-arrival,July 19,1904,I found-in his listing-that hewas traveling
>| with his "11 year-old brother-in-law, Isador ELORICS."I assumed that
>| this was probably his wife's brother (hence the different name) and
>| thought I might have discovered her maiden name, but in further
>| researching I have yet to find any "Elorics"in any genealogical data
>| source, including current phone listings.The script in the passenger
>| record looks quite clear,so that I cannot perceive any otherpossible
>| spelling or letter changes, and no one in my family knows of this
>| "brother-in-law." Any suggestions?
>|
>| Thanks!
>| Pamela Weisberger

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

LitvakSIG President Davida Noyek Handler and I need your help with the
indexing that we are undertaking of the Lithuanian Jewish Vital Records
already filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah. We need you on our team.

We are going to be receiving on CD-ROM these Lithuanian Jewish Vital
Records in Russian (Cyrillic handwriting) and Hebrew handwriting >from the
1800s into the early 1900s. As the team leader, I am interested in finding
team members with a variety of skills and interests, including language
skills, technical computer skills, familiarity with the metrical records

from the Old Russian Empire, and knowledge of Russian/Hebrew/Yiddish names.

Most important of all, however, is a desire to contribute to the knowledge
base of our Jewish family research efforts for Lithuanian Jewry, an
interest in learning, and a willingness to be part of a great team of
fellow researchers/genealogists.

What would your interests and skills be that relate to these areas of
interest? Past involvement with Jewish genealogy projects? Extent of your
own research and towns of interest for research purposes?

Please contact me directly as soon as possible. We can certainly use all
the help we can get. Please do not respond to the JewishGen Digest.

Jeff Miller

E-mail: SingingTM@aol.com

Olney, Maryland

Dear Pamela,

Please publish at ViewMate the scan of this name. It must be
something else then ELORICS, but definitively Hungarian. The suffix
"cs" so indicates, as this is a typical Hungarian suffix. If you
publish it I will try to decode the correct name. Old handwritings
can be very misleading. BTW, the correct given name is Isidor, not
Isador.
Thanks
Tom

At 00:00 -0600 19.12.00, JewishGen Discussion Group digest wrote:
>| In researching the ship's passenger records for mygreat-grandfather,
>| Marton Braun (>from Karasz, Hungary)on the ship,Finlandia, Antwerp to
>| NYC-arrival,July 19,1904,I found-in his listing-that hewas traveling
>| with his "11 year-old brother-in-law, Isador ELORICS."I assumed that
>| this was probably his wife's brother (hence the different name) and
>| thought I might have discovered her maiden name, but in further
>| researching I have yet to find any "Elorics"in any genealogical data
>| source, including current phone listings.The script in the passenger
>| record looks quite clear,so that I cannot perceive any otherpossible
>| spelling or letter changes, and no one in my family knows of this
>| "brother-in-law." Any suggestions?
>|
>| Thanks!
>| Pamela Weisberger

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

Dear Mark,
One more name to add to the list in my previous message: CITRON, Louis
(without the "e"). Of course, in French the word "citron" means
"lemon." Perhaps, Andre did not feel comfortable naming his cars
"Lemon" and kept the family name with the "E" which requires a tréma
(two dots over the E) in French to be pronounced correctly. The Dutch
"Citroen" is pronounced "citroon" in English.

Henny

Henriette Moed Roth
Los Angeles, CA
hennynow@pacbell.net

Dear Mark,
One more name to add to the list in my previous message: CITRON, Louis
(without the "e"). Of course, in French the word "citron" means
"lemon." Perhaps, Andre did not feel comfortable naming his cars
"Lemon" and kept the family name with the "E" which requires a tréma
(two dots over the E) in French to be pronounced correctly. The Dutch
"Citroen" is pronounced "citroon" in English.

Henny

Henriette Moed Roth
Los Angeles, CA
hennynow@pacbell.net