Date   

Re: Statistics on Jews in Eastern Galicia - continued #galicia

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Hi,

It is unfortunate that my original posting concerning Jewish statistical
data in prewar Eastern Galicia and search for the actual figures of the
Jewish population has been sidetracked to the nationalistic squabble of the
Eastern European neighbors post WWI.

I have been awaiting >from Peter promised detailed data on 1921 and 1931
Poland census results and the clear definition of the "Jewish nationality"
term. I understand that person can be of Mosaic faith and Polish citizenship
(nationality). What in this case the Jewish nationality suppose to mean?
What is this definition is based on?

On a final note I strongly disagree with Peter that Versailles Treaty did
not deal with the borders issue. Peace Conference by dismembering four
Empires (incl. Ottoman) has de facto establish the birth of the national
states in the Eastern Europe, Balkans and in the Middle East, and has
designed their respective national borders.

I would also like to clarify that my Dad communicated in Hebrew to his
_first_ wife in prewar Poland, not to my Mom who spoke Yiddish.

I would like also to confirm that Peter and I have a good and friendly
relations, which does not mean that I share his view on the subject.

Regards,

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Statistics on Jews in Eastern Galicia - continued #galicia

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Hi,

It is unfortunate that my original posting concerning Jewish statistical
data in prewar Eastern Galicia and search for the actual figures of the
Jewish population has been sidetracked to the nationalistic squabble of the
Eastern European neighbors post WWI.

I have been awaiting >from Peter promised detailed data on 1921 and 1931
Poland census results and the clear definition of the "Jewish nationality"
term. I understand that person can be of Mosaic faith and Polish citizenship
(nationality). What in this case the Jewish nationality suppose to mean?
What is this definition is based on?

On a final note I strongly disagree with Peter that Versailles Treaty did
not deal with the borders issue. Peace Conference by dismembering four
Empires (incl. Ottoman) has de facto establish the birth of the national
states in the Eastern Europe, Balkans and in the Middle East, and has
designed their respective national borders.

I would also like to clarify that my Dad communicated in Hebrew to his
_first_ wife in prewar Poland, not to my Mom who spoke Yiddish.

I would like also to confirm that Peter and I have a good and friendly
relations, which does not mean that I share his view on the subject.

Regards,

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta


Re: Seeking Shmuel Katz near Lvov #galicia

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Shmuel.

I can not assist you with the search for Katz family.
But I can help with the location identification. Shtetl Gologo(u)ry
(Gologury) [goloh gooryh] which means the "naked hills" is currently located
in Zloczow district (oblast') of Tarnopol (Ternopil) Province.Town name did
not change.

You are probably aware that JRI-P is conducting currently indexing for the
19th century AGAD Warsaw records, and their work has started with Tarnopol
Province. You might be able soon to search for Zloczow and Gologory records
on line.


Alexander Sharon
mailto: a.sharon@home.com

I am seeking information on Shmuel Katz in Gora Gura (Gologury?),
Galician Poland (now BelaRussia?) about 20 km East of Lvov

The town was known as Lemberg during A-H Empire.

I believe that he was either a Rabbi or >from a rabbinical family.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Seeking Shmuel Katz near Lvov #galicia

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Shmuel.

I can not assist you with the search for Katz family.
But I can help with the location identification. Shtetl Gologo(u)ry
(Gologury) [goloh gooryh] which means the "naked hills" is currently located
in Zloczow district (oblast') of Tarnopol (Ternopil) Province.Town name did
not change.

You are probably aware that JRI-P is conducting currently indexing for the
19th century AGAD Warsaw records, and their work has started with Tarnopol
Province. You might be able soon to search for Zloczow and Gologory records
on line.


Alexander Sharon
mailto: a.sharon@home.com

I am seeking information on Shmuel Katz in Gora Gura (Gologury?),
Galician Poland (now BelaRussia?) about 20 km East of Lvov

The town was known as Lemberg during A-H Empire.

I believe that he was either a Rabbi or >from a rabbinical family.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT


Statistics on Jews in Eastern Galicia - final remarks #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

Dear Alex,

You wrote:
"I have been awaiting >from Peter promised detailed data on 1921 and 1931
Poland census results and the clear definition of the "Jewish nationality"
term."

Unfortunately my limited mobility due to my recent injury prevented me from
getting to the appropriate resources. A friend has promised however to look
for and deliver such materials to my home, and if it happens I will
certainly analize them and share my findings with you. I did some reading on
the subject and found a comment that in 1921 census there was some ambiguity
regarding Belorussians. The assimilated, Polish-speaking, Roman-Catholics
of Belorussian ancestry were counted as Poles. This, by reference, leads us
to better understanding of possible source of difference in numbers of
Galician Jews by nationality and faith in the 1921 census.
You wrote:
On a final note I strongly disagree with Peter that Versailles Treaty did
not deal with the borders issue."

I guess, this was a misunderstanding rather than a difference of opinion. I
meant that the Peace Treaty of Nov. 11, 1918 did not deal with borders. The
June 28, 1919 Versailles Treaty dealt with borders and it dealt very
extensively with the borders of Germany including the Polish-German border.
The overall detailed boundaries of Europe, including the non-German
boundaries of Poland had not been determined there yet. Section VIII
(Poland), Article 87 says "The boundaries of Poland not laid down in the
present Treaty will be subsequently determined by the Principal Allied and
Associated Powers." The Treaty of St. Germain (September 1919) has also
left the final disposition of Eastern Galicia unresolved thus unleashing
Pilsudskis dreams of multi-ethnic Poland including all of Galicia and
Ukrainian dreams of sovereignty.

You wrote:
"I would also like to clarify that my Dad communicated in Hebrew to his
first wife in prewar Poland, not to my Mom who spoke Yiddish."

I find this subject fascinating and hope to hear more >from others on the use
of Hebrew in Poland.

Thank you Alex. My pleasure having this conversation. Thank you all who
are still willing to read.

Peter Jassem,
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Statistics on Jews in Eastern Galicia - final remarks #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

Dear Alex,

You wrote:
"I have been awaiting >from Peter promised detailed data on 1921 and 1931
Poland census results and the clear definition of the "Jewish nationality"
term."

Unfortunately my limited mobility due to my recent injury prevented me from
getting to the appropriate resources. A friend has promised however to look
for and deliver such materials to my home, and if it happens I will
certainly analize them and share my findings with you. I did some reading on
the subject and found a comment that in 1921 census there was some ambiguity
regarding Belorussians. The assimilated, Polish-speaking, Roman-Catholics
of Belorussian ancestry were counted as Poles. This, by reference, leads us
to better understanding of possible source of difference in numbers of
Galician Jews by nationality and faith in the 1921 census.
You wrote:
On a final note I strongly disagree with Peter that Versailles Treaty did
not deal with the borders issue."

I guess, this was a misunderstanding rather than a difference of opinion. I
meant that the Peace Treaty of Nov. 11, 1918 did not deal with borders. The
June 28, 1919 Versailles Treaty dealt with borders and it dealt very
extensively with the borders of Germany including the Polish-German border.
The overall detailed boundaries of Europe, including the non-German
boundaries of Poland had not been determined there yet. Section VIII
(Poland), Article 87 says "The boundaries of Poland not laid down in the
present Treaty will be subsequently determined by the Principal Allied and
Associated Powers." The Treaty of St. Germain (September 1919) has also
left the final disposition of Eastern Galicia unresolved thus unleashing
Pilsudskis dreams of multi-ethnic Poland including all of Galicia and
Ukrainian dreams of sovereignty.

You wrote:
"I would also like to clarify that my Dad communicated in Hebrew to his
first wife in prewar Poland, not to my Mom who spoke Yiddish."

I find this subject fascinating and hope to hear more >from others on the use
of Hebrew in Poland.

Thank you Alex. My pleasure having this conversation. Thank you all who
are still willing to read.

Peter Jassem,
Toronto, Ontario
jassep@tdbank.ca


Site Cite: Famous Jews - Yahoodi #general

Naomi Teveth <ntevet@...>
 

Hello,

A site listing famous Jews, sorted according to categories
(such as actors, heroes, gangsters, lawyers, etc.) can be found at:

http://www.yahoodi.com/famous/famstart.html

It is not a perfect site (some broken links), but still provides some
interesting reading.

from
Naomi Teveth in Tel Aviv, Israel
ntevet@netvision.net.il

MODERATOR NOTE: This Discussion Group has hosted may past
discussions about famous Jewish people. These are all archived
in the JewishGen Discussion Group Archives at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop>.
All further discussion should relate to genealogy.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Site Cite: Famous Jews - Yahoodi #general

Naomi Teveth <ntevet@...>
 

Hello,

A site listing famous Jews, sorted according to categories
(such as actors, heroes, gangsters, lawyers, etc.) can be found at:

http://www.yahoodi.com/famous/famstart.html

It is not a perfect site (some broken links), but still provides some
interesting reading.

from
Naomi Teveth in Tel Aviv, Israel
ntevet@netvision.net.il

MODERATOR NOTE: This Discussion Group has hosted may past
discussions about famous Jewish people. These are all archived
in the JewishGen Discussion Group Archives at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop>.
All further discussion should relate to genealogy.


Passenger arrivals pre-1850 #usa

Rachel Unkefer <runkefer@...>
 

Dennis Baer has proposed in German SIG leading a project to index a
small number of arrivals in New York >from Germany for 1848. It was
pointed out by others that a large number of immigrants did not
arrive via New York during that era, but came through New Orleans or
Baltimore.

I think an ideal first project for Early American SIG might be to
choose a year and a port (pre-1850, as that is when "Germans to
America" starts--I know it's not complete, but it would be good to
start with something that hasn't been done at all) and work on
indexing/transcribing ship arrivals into the US. Most of the projects
ongoing I know of are for much later eras. I believe the lists should
be available on microfilm through the LDS (although I have not
checked this).

Who would be interested in working on such a project (more
importantly, we need a leader) and what year/port would be a good
starting point? Since we only have a bit over 100 members, we should
probably start with something fairly small.

Write to the list and propose a year and a port--hopefully we can
find a combination that a lot of people are interested in so that it
will be easy to find volunteers.

Perhaps it can be a joint project between Early American SIG and German SIG.

--
Rachel Unkefer
Charlottesville, VA
runkefer@cstone.net


Early American SIG #USA Passenger arrivals pre-1850 #usa

Rachel Unkefer <runkefer@...>
 

Dennis Baer has proposed in German SIG leading a project to index a
small number of arrivals in New York >from Germany for 1848. It was
pointed out by others that a large number of immigrants did not
arrive via New York during that era, but came through New Orleans or
Baltimore.

I think an ideal first project for Early American SIG might be to
choose a year and a port (pre-1850, as that is when "Germans to
America" starts--I know it's not complete, but it would be good to
start with something that hasn't been done at all) and work on
indexing/transcribing ship arrivals into the US. Most of the projects
ongoing I know of are for much later eras. I believe the lists should
be available on microfilm through the LDS (although I have not
checked this).

Who would be interested in working on such a project (more
importantly, we need a leader) and what year/port would be a good
starting point? Since we only have a bit over 100 members, we should
probably start with something fairly small.

Write to the list and propose a year and a port--hopefully we can
find a combination that a lot of people are interested in so that it
will be easy to find volunteers.

Perhaps it can be a joint project between Early American SIG and German SIG.

--
Rachel Unkefer
Charlottesville, VA
runkefer@cstone.net


Mohel Records #usa

Janet Akaha <Akaha@...>
 

RE: Mohel Records =



I read an e-mail yesterday >from Joseph Fibel re. Mohel records. =

Unfortunately, I deleted the e-mail, and then later decided I needed to
interject.

The jist of the moderator's not was that Jewishgen is not seeking mohel
records out of deference to the Leo Baeck Institute who is in the process=

of putting together some kind of database.

I know when I proposed the Rodeph Shalom Database, the Gersig moderator
made a comment about checking with Karen Franklin at LBI to make sure tha=
t
this kind of database wasn't already out there. I have communicated with=

Karen quite a few times in the past, so I did give Karen a call and she w=
as
most encouraging. She even made a statement that she would also like to
know if Kenneseth Israel (in Philadelphia) had similar records and she
wanted to know if I was planning to record these as well. (No, I have no
such plans... at least at this time.)

Now I can see that LBI probably has a lot of records >from Germany, but I
wouldn't expect them to be a repository for US mohel records. I don't se=
e
any reason why Jewishgen wouldn't be thrilled to have on-line information=

from any of the old US Congregations. =

I also know that mohel records were published by Generations, the
Baltimore Jewish Genealogy Publication. (Fall 1989 and Summer 1991) =

Presently, this information isn't on-line and I think it might be
worthwhile to check and see if they have such plans. =


Anyway, I was not aware until yesterday that Jewishgen is staying away fr=
om
mohel records in deference to the LBI. However, I think we maybe need to=

clarify just which records are in the LBI collection. There must be man=
y
US congregations with such records. Perhaps the AJA would be the best
place to check. (That is who sent me all of my information and has been
very supportive.)

Janet Billstein Akaha
Salinas, CA =


Early American SIG #USA Mohel Records #usa

Janet Akaha <Akaha@...>
 

RE: Mohel Records =



I read an e-mail yesterday >from Joseph Fibel re. Mohel records. =

Unfortunately, I deleted the e-mail, and then later decided I needed to
interject.

The jist of the moderator's not was that Jewishgen is not seeking mohel
records out of deference to the Leo Baeck Institute who is in the process=

of putting together some kind of database.

I know when I proposed the Rodeph Shalom Database, the Gersig moderator
made a comment about checking with Karen Franklin at LBI to make sure tha=
t
this kind of database wasn't already out there. I have communicated with=

Karen quite a few times in the past, so I did give Karen a call and she w=
as
most encouraging. She even made a statement that she would also like to
know if Kenneseth Israel (in Philadelphia) had similar records and she
wanted to know if I was planning to record these as well. (No, I have no
such plans... at least at this time.)

Now I can see that LBI probably has a lot of records >from Germany, but I
wouldn't expect them to be a repository for US mohel records. I don't se=
e
any reason why Jewishgen wouldn't be thrilled to have on-line information=

from any of the old US Congregations. =

I also know that mohel records were published by Generations, the
Baltimore Jewish Genealogy Publication. (Fall 1989 and Summer 1991) =

Presently, this information isn't on-line and I think it might be
worthwhile to check and see if they have such plans. =


Anyway, I was not aware until yesterday that Jewishgen is staying away fr=
om
mohel records in deference to the LBI. However, I think we maybe need to=

clarify just which records are in the LBI collection. There must be man=
y
US congregations with such records. Perhaps the AJA would be the best
place to check. (That is who sent me all of my information and has been
very supportive.)

Janet Billstein Akaha
Salinas, CA =


Need Help--Translation of Polish Birth Certificate (ViewMate #322) #general

Deborah Dworski <ddworski@...>
 

Hoping someone can help translate a Polish vital record >from shtetl Rypin
which I've posted at ViewMate (#322). I think it's a birth record, but I'm
embarrassed to say I cannot be certain (a sure sign I need some
assistance!). The time frame is the 1860s.

Here is a direct link to view the document:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/vm322.html
Thank you!

Deborah Dworski
Arlington, Virginia U.S.A.

searching >from Galicia: SONNENBLUM (Gorodenka); STUPP (Gorodenka); SCHOR
(Gorodenka); KOFLER (Gorodenka); DIENER (Gorodenka); SOCKEL (Solotwina);
SCHNEID (Solotwina); SCHIEBER (Kossow); SCHAUDER (Kossow); KLEIN (Kossow)
searching >from Russia/Poland: DWORSKI (Raczki); MINSKY (Raczki, Sopotskin,
Galynka); SILVERSTEIN (Raczki); LEVATINSKY (Raczki, Augustow); BRAMA
(Rypin); BRAUN / BROWN (Rypin); GRZEBIEN / GESBEN (Sierpc);LOPATKA (Sierpc)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Need Help--Translation of Polish Birth Certificate (ViewMate #322) #general

Deborah Dworski <ddworski@...>
 

Hoping someone can help translate a Polish vital record >from shtetl Rypin
which I've posted at ViewMate (#322). I think it's a birth record, but I'm
embarrassed to say I cannot be certain (a sure sign I need some
assistance!). The time frame is the 1860s.

Here is a direct link to view the document:
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/vm322.html
Thank you!

Deborah Dworski
Arlington, Virginia U.S.A.

searching >from Galicia: SONNENBLUM (Gorodenka); STUPP (Gorodenka); SCHOR
(Gorodenka); KOFLER (Gorodenka); DIENER (Gorodenka); SOCKEL (Solotwina);
SCHNEID (Solotwina); SCHIEBER (Kossow); SCHAUDER (Kossow); KLEIN (Kossow)
searching >from Russia/Poland: DWORSKI (Raczki); MINSKY (Raczki, Sopotskin,
Galynka); SILVERSTEIN (Raczki); LEVATINSKY (Raczki, Augustow); BRAMA
(Rypin); BRAUN / BROWN (Rypin); GRZEBIEN / GESBEN (Sierpc);LOPATKA (Sierpc)


Piotrkow Trybunalski, Poland ShtetLinks now online! #general

Seflaum@...
 

Dear JGeners,

I am pleased to announce the launch of a ShtetLinks site commemorating
the Jewish community of Piotrkow Trybunalski, Poland.

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/piotrkowtryb/

Piotrkow Trybunalski is located 42 kilometers or 26 miles south-southeast
of Lodz. It was an important Jewish cultural, religious and Hebrew
publishing center in pre-war Poland. This site is a work in progress. We
hope to add much more interesting and useful information to the site in
the near future. Your contributions of information, documents or photos
are always welcome.

Special thanks go to Marla Waltman Daschko, Ben Giladi, Paul W.
Ginsburg, Alice and Maurice Klinger, Leonard Markowitz and Petje
Schroeder for their invaluable contributions to the site.

I also want to thank John Berman, Chuck Weinstein and the entire
ShtetLinks team for their assistance in making ShtetLinks sites like this
possible. They are a pleasure to work with.

Best Regards,
Shirley Rotbein Flaum
Houston, Texas


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Piotrkow Trybunalski, Poland ShtetLinks now online! #general

Seflaum@...
 

Dear JGeners,

I am pleased to announce the launch of a ShtetLinks site commemorating
the Jewish community of Piotrkow Trybunalski, Poland.

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/piotrkowtryb/

Piotrkow Trybunalski is located 42 kilometers or 26 miles south-southeast
of Lodz. It was an important Jewish cultural, religious and Hebrew
publishing center in pre-war Poland. This site is a work in progress. We
hope to add much more interesting and useful information to the site in
the near future. Your contributions of information, documents or photos
are always welcome.

Special thanks go to Marla Waltman Daschko, Ben Giladi, Paul W.
Ginsburg, Alice and Maurice Klinger, Leonard Markowitz and Petje
Schroeder for their invaluable contributions to the site.

I also want to thank John Berman, Chuck Weinstein and the entire
ShtetLinks team for their assistance in making ShtetLinks sites like this
possible. They are a pleasure to work with.

Best Regards,
Shirley Rotbein Flaum
Houston, Texas


Re: Need ideas on naturalizations #general

Howard Bensen <aj680@...>
 

Doug Cohen wrote:
Have you found his ship-manifest? Starting around 1907-10 or something,
people who were naturalized had to submit a certificate >from the INS
documenting where, when, and what ship they arrived. When I found my gm's
manifest, there were numbers and a date pencilled next to it, which gave
me the approximate date of her naturalization.
The number Doug refers to is the Certificate of Arrival. An excellent
article on this subject in the Spring 1996 issue of Avotaynu,
Interpreting U.S. Immigration Manifest Annotations, by Marian L. Smith,
is a clear and comprehensive explanation of these numbers.

Since I knew where my mother was living around the date of the Certicicate
of Arrival it was possible for the County Clerk's office to find her
Petition for Naturalization in their archives. Incidentally, the
Cerificate number is recorded in the Petition.

This subject pops up >from time to time, if you look through the archives.

Howard Bensen
Woodland Hills, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen Discussion Group Archives at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop>.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Need ideas on naturalizations #general

Howard Bensen <aj680@...>
 

Doug Cohen wrote:
Have you found his ship-manifest? Starting around 1907-10 or something,
people who were naturalized had to submit a certificate >from the INS
documenting where, when, and what ship they arrived. When I found my gm's
manifest, there were numbers and a date pencilled next to it, which gave
me the approximate date of her naturalization.
The number Doug refers to is the Certificate of Arrival. An excellent
article on this subject in the Spring 1996 issue of Avotaynu,
Interpreting U.S. Immigration Manifest Annotations, by Marian L. Smith,
is a clear and comprehensive explanation of these numbers.

Since I knew where my mother was living around the date of the Certicicate
of Arrival it was possible for the County Clerk's office to find her
Petition for Naturalization in their archives. Incidentally, the
Cerificate number is recorded in the Petition.

This subject pops up >from time to time, if you look through the archives.

Howard Bensen
Woodland Hills, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen Discussion Group Archives at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~archpop>.


New Piotrkow Trybunalski ShtetLinks online! #lodz #poland

Seflaum@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

I am pleased to announce the launch of a ShtetLinks web site commemorating
the Jewish community of Piotrkow Trybunalski.

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/piotrkowtryb/

This site is a work in progress. We hope to add much more interesting and
useful information to the site in the near future. Your contributions of
information, documents or photos are always welcome.

Special thanks go to Marla Waltman Daschko, Ben Giladi, Paul W. Ginsburg,
Alice and Maurice Klinger(my newly found cousins), Leonard Markowitz and
Petje Schroder for their invaluable contributions to the site.

I also want to thank John Berman, Chuck Weinstein and the entire ShtetLinks
team for their assistance in making ShtetLinks sites like this possible.
They are a pleasure to work with.

Best Regards,
Shirley Rotbein Flaum
Houston, Texas


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland New Piotrkow Trybunalski ShtetLinks online! #lodz #poland

Seflaum@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

I am pleased to announce the launch of a ShtetLinks web site commemorating
the Jewish community of Piotrkow Trybunalski.

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/piotrkowtryb/

This site is a work in progress. We hope to add much more interesting and
useful information to the site in the near future. Your contributions of
information, documents or photos are always welcome.

Special thanks go to Marla Waltman Daschko, Ben Giladi, Paul W. Ginsburg,
Alice and Maurice Klinger(my newly found cousins), Leonard Markowitz and
Petje Schroder for their invaluable contributions to the site.

I also want to thank John Berman, Chuck Weinstein and the entire ShtetLinks
team for their assistance in making ShtetLinks sites like this possible.
They are a pleasure to work with.

Best Regards,
Shirley Rotbein Flaum
Houston, Texas