If he has not done so already, Mr. Weiss should explore the Latviasig and
Courland discussion groups and sites (and, particularly, their related
searchable databases). There is much there about the vagaries of living in
Courland without lawful permit. I found my KLEINMAN(N) forebears on various
"without permit" lists compiled throughout the 19th century, and my
gg-grandfather, Abraham Kleinman, on an "of conscription age" list ca. 1885. I'm sure these combined statuses encouraged his prompt emigration to England and, finally, the U.S.

Matt Singer
Philadelphia

If he has not done so already, Mr. Weiss should explore the Latviasig and
Courland discussion groups and sites (and, particularly, their related
searchable databases). There is much there about the vagaries of living in
Courland without lawful permit. I found my KLEINMAN(N) forebears on various
"without permit" lists compiled throughout the 19th century, and my
gg-grandfather, Abraham Kleinman, on an "of conscription age" list ca. 1885. I'm sure these combined statuses encouraged his prompt emigration to England and, finally, the U.S.

Matt Singer
Philadelphia

In response to Steven Weiss' account of his grandmother's memoir, this
is the explanation >from the Kaunas Archives that accompanied that list:

"Heads of Households of these Kaunas gubernia Jewish families were
legally adopted by Riga Jewish families (I do not know what the
procedure was - in court, or a rabbi registered it?)and, as adopted
sons, were registered as belonging to Riga Jewish community with all
their families.

"When it was found out (because of the complaints some other Riga Jews
wrote - there always is somebody writing complaints), police
investigated the matter and the case even reached the Senate
of Russia (at that time this was the Highest court), which finally
decided that adopted sons did not have the right to become
members of Riga Jewish community automatically. Adoption had to be
cancelled and they had to return to their previous places of residence
in Kaunas gub."

This list has been sent to contributors to any of the uyezd research
groups in Kaunas gubernia. Eventually (about 6 months) it will be
included in the All Lithuania Database. If you would like a sneak
preview, all you have to do is send $100 to any of the research groups
listed below. I have also listed the coordinators for each. Please
contact them with any questions.

Kaunas - Davida Handler DNHIowa@aol.com
Panevezys - Michael Witkin michael@witkin.org
Raseiniai - David Hoffman DBH12345@aol.com
Siauliai - Carol Baker carolcbaker@mediaone.net
Telsiai - Deena Berton dberton@mediaone.net
Ukmerge - Richard Winer rawiner@mediaone.net
Zarasai - Saul Adelman ADELMANS@adelvx.citadel.edu

Carol Coplin Baker
Research Groups Coordinator
carolcbaker@mediaone.net
WEGER, LIPSCHITZ - Vegeriai and Siauliai, Lithuania & Johannesburg
GREENBLATT - Vegeriai, Lithuania
TVERIA/TUORREA- Gargzdai and Raseiniai, Lithuania

In response to Steven Weiss' account of his grandmother's memoir, this
is the explanation >from the Kaunas Archives that accompanied that list:

"Heads of Households of these Kaunas gubernia Jewish families were
legally adopted by Riga Jewish families (I do not know what the
procedure was - in court, or a rabbi registered it?)and, as adopted
sons, were registered as belonging to Riga Jewish community with all
their families.

"When it was found out (because of the complaints some other Riga Jews
wrote - there always is somebody writing complaints), police
investigated the matter and the case even reached the Senate
of Russia (at that time this was the Highest court), which finally
decided that adopted sons did not have the right to become
members of Riga Jewish community automatically. Adoption had to be
cancelled and they had to return to their previous places of residence
in Kaunas gub."

This list has been sent to contributors to any of the uyezd research
groups in Kaunas gubernia. Eventually (about 6 months) it will be
included in the All Lithuania Database. If you would like a sneak
preview, all you have to do is send $100 to any of the research groups
listed below. I have also listed the coordinators for each. Please
contact them with any questions.

Kaunas - Davida Handler DNHIowa@aol.com
Panevezys - Michael Witkin michael@witkin.org
Raseiniai - David Hoffman DBH12345@aol.com
Siauliai - Carol Baker carolcbaker@mediaone.net
Telsiai - Deena Berton dberton@mediaone.net
Ukmerge - Richard Winer rawiner@mediaone.net
Zarasai - Saul Adelman ADELMANS@adelvx.citadel.edu

Carol Coplin Baker
Research Groups Coordinator
carolcbaker@mediaone.net
WEGER, LIPSCHITZ - Vegeriai and Siauliai, Lithuania & Johannesburg
GREENBLATT - Vegeriai, Lithuania
TVERIA/TUORREA- Gargzdai and Raseiniai, Lithuania

I have just discovered that my gggg-grandmother had a surname, FRAIND.
This was found in a marriage certificate >from Sieradz, in 1823. There are
no Jewish records for Sieradz for 1826 and after. >from what I can tell from
the early records, there were very few Jews, and they made up less than
10% of the population in the early 1820s, so I am hoping maybe they were
registered elsewhere. Nearby towns with records include Zdunska Wola
and Warta, and the nearest really big cities were Kalisz and Lodz, both
a little over 30 miles away. Is anyone familiar with the name, or seen the
town Sieradz in their own research? My gggg-grandmother's name was
Sara, and her parents were Manel and Liwsia. I have found evidence of
younger sisters Ruchl and Rose, and haven't found evidence of brothers
yet.

Robert Heyman
robeh@iprimus.com.au
Canberra, Australia
http://home.iprimus.com.au/robeh

For the most part in doing genealogy, adopted children are added to the
family tree with a notation that they were adopted but since the blood
line does not continue, their descendants are not added to the tree.

As an adopted child I am entitled to do any of things that a natural
child can do, by law. In NYS for example, I inherit automatically if
there are no other claimants. I could go on but that is not the point.

Once I have been adopted, my children and mine by natural right as do
there children and theirs, etc.

It may be important to note an adoption, especially as in my case
where the original family was found and my half brothers and I are
close and I e-mail my nieces & nephews regularly.

Never the less my two natural sons fit on the tree with out any
special marking because they are my blood line despite their Mother's
occasional comments to the contrary.

The purpose of any family is to trace out as far as possible the
connections that bind us together as a "family"

I too find it counterproductive to follow the suggestion above, but
more than that I find it insulting as it implies that my two natural
sons do not belong in our family tree because of something that
happened before they were born and for which they bare no
responsibility.

Geneology's primary purpose is to bring people together, usually
resulting in great happiness. It is not in my view a way of
eliminating people >from families, causing at best some little pain
and at worst enough pain and anger to break apart a family.

We all suffer enough pain with out adding more that is both
unnecessary and judgmental.

David Frey
dfrey@bigpond.net.au


--
David Frey
Researching Beshincovichi, (Gildinsohn,, Steinhart)
K'lemnick,(Rabbi Avram Israel Gildinsohn, Gilden)
Dryhobitch (Frey), and
Ireland & Canada & USA (William Walsh) (Yes I know!)
Warsaw (Kaufman, Braf)

Is there a reader on the list who lives close to Pensacola Florida ?

I need an Obituary look up if you can help.

Please contact me privately

Thank you

David Lewin
London

Am seaching for Rothfields. Specifically Jacob ROTHFIELD b. c1890 - d.1949
married Rose Levinson who was born Edinburgh.
I believe Jacobs parents may have been Russian and Austrian, and quite
probably the name may have been 'Rotfeld' - however this is just a guess.

Jacob moved to Israel and family history has it that he started a
kindergarten there. He died in Israel and he is supposedly buried in Mt.
Carmel.
Anyone else searching for this family?
Pam Rothfield
Melbourne

Gray's Drug Store had a large ticket brokering agency during the 1930's and
40's -- instead of walaking >from theater to theater to see what was
available today, one just went to Gray's -- on the East side of Broadway,
about 43rd Street. If the show was doing well, one paid full price; if it
had lots of empty seats there were bargains. The agency was, if I remember,
in the basement.

Paula Spier
Brewster, MA

Looking for any info on the Vantine Company in New York City,
probably 1930 or later. Owned by Jack Poses and Herman Perry -
both nee PESETZKY.

Robin Lawrence Poses

searching ***PESETZKY, MOLOSHOK, DINKEN, SADOWSKY***

I am searching for relatives/friends of Saba (Sabina) Kirschenbaum
Kornblum, who emigrated to Israel with her husband Yeshua after WW2.

Please contact me privately, and thanks in advance.

Lisa Dashman
ldashman@bestweb.net

I have just discovered that my gggg-grandmother had a surname, FRAIND.
This was found in a marriage certificate >from Sieradz, in 1823. There are
no Jewish records for Sieradz for 1826 and after. >from what I can tell from
the early records, there were very few Jews, and they made up less than
10% of the population in the early 1820s, so I am hoping maybe they were
registered elsewhere. Nearby towns with records include Zdunska Wola
and Warta, and the nearest really big cities were Kalisz and Lodz, both
a little over 30 miles away. Is anyone familiar with the name, or seen the
town Sieradz in their own research? My gggg-grandmother's name was
Sara, and her parents were Manel and Liwsia. I have found evidence of
younger sisters Ruchl and Rose, and haven't found evidence of brothers
yet.

Robert Heyman
robeh@iprimus.com.au
Canberra, Australia
http://home.iprimus.com.au/robeh

For the most part in doing genealogy, adopted children are added to the
family tree with a notation that they were adopted but since the blood
line does not continue, their descendants are not added to the tree.

As an adopted child I am entitled to do any of things that a natural
child can do, by law. In NYS for example, I inherit automatically if
there are no other claimants. I could go on but that is not the point.

Once I have been adopted, my children and mine by natural right as do
there children and theirs, etc.

It may be important to note an adoption, especially as in my case
where the original family was found and my half brothers and I are
close and I e-mail my nieces & nephews regularly.

Never the less my two natural sons fit on the tree with out any
special marking because they are my blood line despite their Mother's
occasional comments to the contrary.

The purpose of any family is to trace out as far as possible the
connections that bind us together as a "family"

I too find it counterproductive to follow the suggestion above, but
more than that I find it insulting as it implies that my two natural
sons do not belong in our family tree because of something that
happened before they were born and for which they bare no
responsibility.

Geneology's primary purpose is to bring people together, usually
resulting in great happiness. It is not in my view a way of
eliminating people >from families, causing at best some little pain
and at worst enough pain and anger to break apart a family.

We all suffer enough pain with out adding more that is both
unnecessary and judgmental.

David Frey
dfrey@bigpond.net.au


--
David Frey
Researching Beshincovichi, (Gildinsohn,, Steinhart)
K'lemnick,(Rabbi Avram Israel Gildinsohn, Gilden)
Dryhobitch (Frey), and
Ireland & Canada & USA (William Walsh) (Yes I know!)
Warsaw (Kaufman, Braf)

Is there a reader on the list who lives close to Pensacola Florida ?

I need an Obituary look up if you can help.

Please contact me privately

Thank you

David Lewin
London

Am seaching for Rothfields. Specifically Jacob ROTHFIELD b. c1890 - d.1949
married Rose Levinson who was born Edinburgh.
I believe Jacobs parents may have been Russian and Austrian, and quite
probably the name may have been 'Rotfeld' - however this is just a guess.

Jacob moved to Israel and family history has it that he started a
kindergarten there. He died in Israel and he is supposedly buried in Mt.
Carmel.
Anyone else searching for this family?
Pam Rothfield
Melbourne

Gray's Drug Store had a large ticket brokering agency during the 1930's and
40's -- instead of walaking >from theater to theater to see what was
available today, one just went to Gray's -- on the East side of Broadway,
about 43rd Street. If the show was doing well, one paid full price; if it
had lots of empty seats there were bargains. The agency was, if I remember,
in the basement.

Paula Spier
Brewster, MA

Looking for any info on the Vantine Company in New York City,
probably 1930 or later. Owned by Jack Poses and Herman Perry -
both nee PESETZKY.

Robin Lawrence Poses

searching ***PESETZKY, MOLOSHOK, DINKEN, SADOWSKY***

I am searching for relatives/friends of Saba (Sabina) Kirschenbaum
Kornblum, who emigrated to Israel with her husband Yeshua after WW2.

Please contact me privately, and thanks in advance.

Lisa Dashman
ldashman@bestweb.net

Importance: Normal

I would appreciate help with a translation :
Yiddish (in Hebrew script) to English (approximately 18 words on
Viewmate).

I have a photo sent by Shymon (in Poland) to his brother
Anchel/Alec (in London). The photo shows Shymon with his wife and
two young children. Date around 1930. This family believed to
have perished in the Holocaust. On the back are some words of
Yiddish written in Hebrew Script.

Any names or place names would be important to me. For any place
names (eg towns/cities), I would be grateful to have the name
spelled phonetically in English, and also to know the Hebrew
letters comprising the name (eg Aleph, nun, .....). I think the
last three words may provide some clues.

The file is up on the Viewmate site
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/
in the "To View" section
- as file VM169

until Tuesday 19 December.

There is one word in the last three words that is, I believe a
name, and occurs on another photo. I have posted this one word
on Viewmate - file VM168. It may be clearer and help for
comparison in the translation.

Amy help would be very much appreciated
Many Thanks.
Laurence Harris
laurence_harris@csi.com
Pinner, Middlesex, London

I have posted a letter, written in Yiddish on viewmate (Files VM 154/155)
and would be most grateful for help with translation.

It is a letter to my grandfather, Selig Spangelet, in London, England, from
his sister , Zeftel Schwarz in Mielec, Galicia.

Many thanks
Frances Sacker
London, England

Researching SPANGELET, Tarnow, Mielec, Swiebodzin, Chraznow; KATZOVITCH,
KASSOVICH, Krivichi Belarus; MEISTER/MYSTA, Minsk; YOSSOVITCH, Odessa, CORB,
Chermno; TZECHER, possibly Mogilev.