Date   
Re; Help with Hebrew? #general

hopo@...
 

Dear Gentlepeople,

Thank you for your wonderful, kind offers of help with these Hebrew
inscriptions! You're really kind, and if you haven't heard >from me
privately yet, you will.

Thank you again, and stay safe and warm.

Sherill Pociecha


researching:
NYC-area: Henry, Samuel, Harry & Monroe ADLER;
Ruth Adler APPLEBAUM; Ruth Adler BLOOM; Lillie/Lillian SATZ;
Celia, Harry, Morris/Moshe & Sally Adler SCHORR

Lemberg Austria (Lviv Ukraine) & Galati Romania:
ADLERs, DIAMONDs, SCHORRs, TURRs

Re: Beider Online at Ancestry #general

gail prissman <gailp71@...>
 

I tried all the different spellings I know and still had no results.
Gail.

From: GojuMom@...
Reply-To: GojuMom@...
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@...>
Subject: Beider Online at Ancestry
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:35:28 EDT

For all those who have some difficulty with this site, I have a
suggestion. Since the names in Beider's book correspond with the
local spelling (which we know have lots of variations) I suggest
typing in part of a name orusing what you believe the name means.

Organising a reunion #general

Michael Scott
 

I have been asked by a distant side of my family to organise a reunion.
It seems there could be in excess of 100 people. We are thinking on the
lines of perhaps a tea party at a local hotel.

Does anyone have any advice about how to go about organising it. For
example identifying different family lines.

Do you think we should make an announcement in the press or should it be
by word of mouth.

Any advice would be welcome.

Michael Scott,
London, England

From Ukraine to Argentina #general

Evan Fishman <ebf2000@...>
 

9/11/00

My g uncle emigrated >from the Ukraine to Buenos Aires between 1905-1910. I
assume he did so to avoid conscription in the Russian army even though he
was the first born male and supposedly exempt. Why would he have emigrated
to Argentina (where he had no family) when he already had an uncle living
in NYC? Was there some organized movement which brought young Jewish
boys/men to Argentina? How did they travel? Who sponsored them once they
arrived in Argentina? Any bits of information would be appreciated.

Evan Fishman
ebf2000@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re; Help with Hebrew? #general

hopo@...
 

Dear Gentlepeople,

Thank you for your wonderful, kind offers of help with these Hebrew
inscriptions! You're really kind, and if you haven't heard >from me
privately yet, you will.

Thank you again, and stay safe and warm.

Sherill Pociecha


researching:
NYC-area: Henry, Samuel, Harry & Monroe ADLER;
Ruth Adler APPLEBAUM; Ruth Adler BLOOM; Lillie/Lillian SATZ;
Celia, Harry, Morris/Moshe & Sally Adler SCHORR

Lemberg Austria (Lviv Ukraine) & Galati Romania:
ADLERs, DIAMONDs, SCHORRs, TURRs

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Beider Online at Ancestry #general

gail prissman <gailp71@...>
 

I tried all the different spellings I know and still had no results.
Gail.

From: GojuMom@...
Reply-To: GojuMom@...
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@...>
Subject: Beider Online at Ancestry
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:35:28 EDT

For all those who have some difficulty with this site, I have a
suggestion. Since the names in Beider's book correspond with the
local spelling (which we know have lots of variations) I suggest
typing in part of a name orusing what you believe the name means.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Organising a reunion #general

Michael Scott
 

I have been asked by a distant side of my family to organise a reunion.
It seems there could be in excess of 100 people. We are thinking on the
lines of perhaps a tea party at a local hotel.

Does anyone have any advice about how to go about organising it. For
example identifying different family lines.

Do you think we should make an announcement in the press or should it be
by word of mouth.

Any advice would be welcome.

Michael Scott,
London, England

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen From Ukraine to Argentina #general

Evan Fishman <ebf2000@...>
 

9/11/00

My g uncle emigrated >from the Ukraine to Buenos Aires between 1905-1910. I
assume he did so to avoid conscription in the Russian army even though he
was the first born male and supposedly exempt. Why would he have emigrated
to Argentina (where he had no family) when he already had an uncle living
in NYC? Was there some organized movement which brought young Jewish
boys/men to Argentina? How did they travel? Who sponsored them once they
arrived in Argentina? Any bits of information would be appreciated.

Evan Fishman
ebf2000@...

Rabbi Hyman E. GOLDIN #general

M. Ronn
 

Although not related to me, I am seeking the descendants of Rabbi Hyman E.
Goldin, who was a rabbi in Boston in the 1950s and was the translator of
the "Code of Jewish Law" in 1961 and the author of other books. He was the
son of Rabbi Israel Goldin, who immigrated >from Lithuania in 1924 and
served as a rabbi in Rochester, NY. Rabbi Hyman E. Goldin also had a
brother, Rabbi Aaron Goldin, who was a rabbi in Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
Please respond privately.

Yours truly,

Michoel Ronn
Brooklyn, NY
(netronn@...)

Re: Babelfish translation #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/11/00 9:43:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
yairharu@... writes:

<< Therefore, if you want to get a general idea about what a passage
in a foreign language means, (taking into account the frequent serious
errors occurring in such a "translation"), then use "Babelfish". You
would, under such circumstances, save yourselves a lot of money.
However, if you need to go into more detail and have a decent piece of
translated work in front of you, I would suggest that you use better
tools and artisans. >>

I'd say Babelfish is very simple, very stupid, very funny.

I suggest some ways you might be able to improve the quality of the
translation *into* another language.
1. Write very brief sentences.
2. Write in very simple language.
3. Make sure your words and thoughts are absolutely unambiguous. Go over
it again and again to make sure a foreigner would not misunderstand you.

[example: I was visiting Israel with a travel companion who couldn't get
on the plane. She called her hosts in Israel to explain. Her hosts told me
she could not come because she had to go to work. What did she actually
say? "They didn't have a flight for me but I'm working on it"]

[When you write "date" do you mean the fruit of a plam tree, a romantic
rendezvous, or a calendar date? Babelfish can't tell one >from the other.]

4. Make sure Babelfish doesn't take it into its simple read-write head to
translate names of villages (e.g. Waldstein = wood stone); or of people
(Fleischmann = Meat man)
5. When you've translated something into a foreign language, translate it
back into English. Do you have a giggle, a sheepish grin, a loud guffaw,
or egg on your face? Do you really want to send that sort of message
overseas?
6. If you do send the translation, send also the English original; the
recipient is often likely to be able to make more sense out of the
English, or at least be able to use the English to clear up ambiguities
and absurdities.
7. You get what you pay for and your free Babelfish is worth every penny
of your investment.

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt,Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

MODERATOR NOTE: For more about Babelfish and automated translation,
you may wish to search the Discussion Group Archives, found under the
"Research" heading at http://www.jewishgen.org/

Relying upon Other's Research #general

DRAYSTAR@...
 

Re: Posting of Sally Bruckheimer, September 3, 2000: Deriving "Facts" >from
Others' Research"

The point is not that all written material containing mistakes should be
discounted. Errors in transcribed dates, names, relationships, etc., on
old records are common, and not just in books, but in actual primary
documents. Such errors on old records occurred in much the same manner
that errors appear on documents today.

The point here is that we are discussing supposedly "scholarly" works,
sometimes by highly respected genealogists. I refer specifically to
contemporary works by living authors. As I pointed out in my original
posting, I was actually interviewed by one such author writing about the
descendants of the Vilna Gaon. This author had predetermined that my
family NOKHUMZON was descended >from the Gaon by way of a relationship to
the MENKIN family. As I further pointed out, this family friendship, not
kinship, was explained in great detail to the researcher who interviewed
me, yet the interviewer stated that this information would not fit with
the theory on which the research, and subsequent book, was to be based.

In other words, a published work of great significance was being prepared,
and has since been published, presenting a line of descendancy with no
documentation of any kind (with regard to a MENKIN - NOKHUMZON kinship) in
order to facilitate a predetermined theory. In fact, hard evidence in the
form of primary documentation, such as personal letters written by the
parties involved describing a family friendship rather than a kinship
between the MENKIN and NOKHUMZON lines was cast aside.

For this reason, and many others too numerous to detail, I respectfully
disagree with the notion that authors of significant genealogical works
should somehow be excused >from proper research practices, or have their
poor research excused, because they are attempting to present "the big
picture." As an editor of best selling nonfiction, I can assure you that
in *no other area* of scholarly research is this notion accepted.

If anything, it should be kept in mind that a great many people using the
wonderful JewishGen site and other Internet resources are still learning
research techniques, and just as many believe that what they find on such
sites is necessarily fact. I agree with much of what this poster has
written in her reply. However, she also states:

"I would not want to give the impression that everything written in books
is wrong-far >from it. But everything written in books and other sources
must be considered as 'probable' unless we can 'prove' that they are right
with primary source material."

Unless, this statement is itself a typo, I could not disagree more. We
are not discussing some ancient descendancy set down by the Gaon. We are
discussing conclusions sold as fact rather than conjecture in order to
extrapolate such venerable descendancies into the present by "real live
contemporary authors with great big problems in their research
techniques." As a result, I have found numerous references on the
Internet proclaiming a relationship between my family and the
aforementioned MENKIN family as fact, some with lovely little family
trees, all based on one moment of bad research by an author with a "big
picture."

Respectfully,

John Drayman
USA

Re: David Clyd RUTH (RUTHERFORD?) #general

Puah <puah@...>
 

Naomi Fatouros wrote:

of this book was J.F. Rutherford. The entry said that Judge Rutherford
was a friend of the Jewish People and very pro-Zionist. He was also
said to be the founder or a founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Could it be that Judge Rutherford of this book was related to Ms. Ray's
grandfather? And could the notion that her grandfather was Jewish have
arisen >from the friendliness toward Jews evinced by the Judge?
I have (since my post) located a 3rd cousin whose g-grandfather was David
Clyde Ruth. His father was Rufus Ruth. He married Adaline MCCLUSKY whose
first husband (RUTHERFORD) died and left her a widow at the age of 18 or
19. Thus, (at least in my eyes) the mystery of where the Rutherford name
was questioned is settled. My family records and my cousins agree,
although her records are quite impressive as she's been doing this for
some time.

I discovered >from my cousin's records that Rufus RUTH was indeed Jewish and
he and his wife Adeline MCCLUSKY Rutherford Ruth owned a general store and
hotel/boarding house in Mt. Vernon, TX when my grandmother was a young
woman. She told me many stories about her stays there with her Aunt and
Uncle. Rufus was born 11-7-1826 in Raleigh, NC.

Anyone with RUTH information >from the Carolinas--any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Brenda Ray

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Rabbi Hyman E. GOLDIN #general

M. Ronn
 

Although not related to me, I am seeking the descendants of Rabbi Hyman E.
Goldin, who was a rabbi in Boston in the 1950s and was the translator of
the "Code of Jewish Law" in 1961 and the author of other books. He was the
son of Rabbi Israel Goldin, who immigrated >from Lithuania in 1924 and
served as a rabbi in Rochester, NY. Rabbi Hyman E. Goldin also had a
brother, Rabbi Aaron Goldin, who was a rabbi in Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
Please respond privately.

Yours truly,

Michoel Ronn
Brooklyn, NY
(netronn@...)

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Babelfish translation #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/11/00 9:43:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
yairharu@... writes:

<< Therefore, if you want to get a general idea about what a passage
in a foreign language means, (taking into account the frequent serious
errors occurring in such a "translation"), then use "Babelfish". You
would, under such circumstances, save yourselves a lot of money.
However, if you need to go into more detail and have a decent piece of
translated work in front of you, I would suggest that you use better
tools and artisans. >>

I'd say Babelfish is very simple, very stupid, very funny.

I suggest some ways you might be able to improve the quality of the
translation *into* another language.
1. Write very brief sentences.
2. Write in very simple language.
3. Make sure your words and thoughts are absolutely unambiguous. Go over
it again and again to make sure a foreigner would not misunderstand you.

[example: I was visiting Israel with a travel companion who couldn't get
on the plane. She called her hosts in Israel to explain. Her hosts told me
she could not come because she had to go to work. What did she actually
say? "They didn't have a flight for me but I'm working on it"]

[When you write "date" do you mean the fruit of a plam tree, a romantic
rendezvous, or a calendar date? Babelfish can't tell one >from the other.]

4. Make sure Babelfish doesn't take it into its simple read-write head to
translate names of villages (e.g. Waldstein = wood stone); or of people
(Fleischmann = Meat man)
5. When you've translated something into a foreign language, translate it
back into English. Do you have a giggle, a sheepish grin, a loud guffaw,
or egg on your face? Do you really want to send that sort of message
overseas?
6. If you do send the translation, send also the English original; the
recipient is often likely to be able to make more sense out of the
English, or at least be able to use the English to clear up ambiguities
and absurdities.
7. You get what you pay for and your free Babelfish is worth every penny
of your investment.

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt,Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina);BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER

MODERATOR NOTE: For more about Babelfish and automated translation,
you may wish to search the Discussion Group Archives, found under the
"Research" heading at http://www.jewishgen.org/

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Relying upon Other's Research #general

DRAYSTAR@...
 

Re: Posting of Sally Bruckheimer, September 3, 2000: Deriving "Facts" >from
Others' Research"

The point is not that all written material containing mistakes should be
discounted. Errors in transcribed dates, names, relationships, etc., on
old records are common, and not just in books, but in actual primary
documents. Such errors on old records occurred in much the same manner
that errors appear on documents today.

The point here is that we are discussing supposedly "scholarly" works,
sometimes by highly respected genealogists. I refer specifically to
contemporary works by living authors. As I pointed out in my original
posting, I was actually interviewed by one such author writing about the
descendants of the Vilna Gaon. This author had predetermined that my
family NOKHUMZON was descended >from the Gaon by way of a relationship to
the MENKIN family. As I further pointed out, this family friendship, not
kinship, was explained in great detail to the researcher who interviewed
me, yet the interviewer stated that this information would not fit with
the theory on which the research, and subsequent book, was to be based.

In other words, a published work of great significance was being prepared,
and has since been published, presenting a line of descendancy with no
documentation of any kind (with regard to a MENKIN - NOKHUMZON kinship) in
order to facilitate a predetermined theory. In fact, hard evidence in the
form of primary documentation, such as personal letters written by the
parties involved describing a family friendship rather than a kinship
between the MENKIN and NOKHUMZON lines was cast aside.

For this reason, and many others too numerous to detail, I respectfully
disagree with the notion that authors of significant genealogical works
should somehow be excused >from proper research practices, or have their
poor research excused, because they are attempting to present "the big
picture." As an editor of best selling nonfiction, I can assure you that
in *no other area* of scholarly research is this notion accepted.

If anything, it should be kept in mind that a great many people using the
wonderful JewishGen site and other Internet resources are still learning
research techniques, and just as many believe that what they find on such
sites is necessarily fact. I agree with much of what this poster has
written in her reply. However, she also states:

"I would not want to give the impression that everything written in books
is wrong-far >from it. But everything written in books and other sources
must be considered as 'probable' unless we can 'prove' that they are right
with primary source material."

Unless, this statement is itself a typo, I could not disagree more. We
are not discussing some ancient descendancy set down by the Gaon. We are
discussing conclusions sold as fact rather than conjecture in order to
extrapolate such venerable descendancies into the present by "real live
contemporary authors with great big problems in their research
techniques." As a result, I have found numerous references on the
Internet proclaiming a relationship between my family and the
aforementioned MENKIN family as fact, some with lovely little family
trees, all based on one moment of bad research by an author with a "big
picture."

Respectfully,

John Drayman
USA

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: David Clyd RUTH (RUTHERFORD?) #general

Puah <puah@...>
 

Naomi Fatouros wrote:

of this book was J.F. Rutherford. The entry said that Judge Rutherford
was a friend of the Jewish People and very pro-Zionist. He was also
said to be the founder or a founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Could it be that Judge Rutherford of this book was related to Ms. Ray's
grandfather? And could the notion that her grandfather was Jewish have
arisen >from the friendliness toward Jews evinced by the Judge?
I have (since my post) located a 3rd cousin whose g-grandfather was David
Clyde Ruth. His father was Rufus Ruth. He married Adaline MCCLUSKY whose
first husband (RUTHERFORD) died and left her a widow at the age of 18 or
19. Thus, (at least in my eyes) the mystery of where the Rutherford name
was questioned is settled. My family records and my cousins agree,
although her records are quite impressive as she's been doing this for
some time.

I discovered >from my cousin's records that Rufus RUTH was indeed Jewish and
he and his wife Adeline MCCLUSKY Rutherford Ruth owned a general store and
hotel/boarding house in Mt. Vernon, TX when my grandmother was a young
woman. She told me many stories about her stays there with her Aunt and
Uncle. Rufus was born 11-7-1826 in Raleigh, NC.

Anyone with RUTH information >from the Carolinas--any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Brenda Ray

PORETSKY #general

Jean Perkin <jean@...>
 

I have been trying to find family who went >from Zaludok (Belarus) in the
early years of the 20th century. Poretsky was the family name, but the
women obviously changed their names when married, and these are not known.
They settled in Boston, Baltimore, Maryland and the Bronx. In the Bronx at
Brook Avenue and S Cruger.

The Russian sculptor Mark Antokolski was a relative.

There was very limited contact until the 70s. Surely there is someone who
knows if there are any of the families still around.

Hope you can help

Jean Perkin
London UK

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen PORETSKY #general

Jean Perkin <jean@...>
 

I have been trying to find family who went >from Zaludok (Belarus) in the
early years of the 20th century. Poretsky was the family name, but the
women obviously changed their names when married, and these are not known.
They settled in Boston, Baltimore, Maryland and the Bronx. In the Bronx at
Brook Avenue and S Cruger.

The Russian sculptor Mark Antokolski was a relative.

There was very limited contact until the 70s. Surely there is someone who
knows if there are any of the families still around.

Hope you can help

Jean Perkin
London UK

Spice up your life! #general

Clankarol@...
 

Have you seen this week's fabulous offer in the JewishGen Auction House?

It's a unique, handcrafted chinese silver condiment set- guaranteed to
take pride of place on your mantlepiece. This unusual collection comes
with it's own family history- the donor's father brought it back >from the
far east after the war. This is one of the most amazing donations to the
AuctionHouse to date- and it could be yours!

So, go on. Take a look. You know you want to!-
http://www.jewishgen.org/auction/

Karol Schlosser
AuctionHouse Volunteer

Re: Conflict of Information lack thereof #general

Herb <herbiem@...>
 

I think most of us who have been digging into the past find many
mysteries and discrepancies. In my own family the surname and given
names have many variations used by relatives, and often not what was
used in their country of origin. This complicates searches of Census
records, Social Security records, city directories, ships manifests,
death certificates, etc. Also ages vary >from document to document.
Immigrants often made mistakes or did not tell the truth for various
reasons. It is a time consuming process but eventually you may be able
to discover why there are these discrepancies. In my own experience I
found a lot of useful leads on the passenger arrival records and
talking to much older relatives who still have a good memory. Each
document you obtain will yield a bit more information about your family,
even though there may be discrepancies. You also may need to learn
something about the geography and history of the area of your ancestors.
My mother was born in Hungary, but by the time she emigrated it was
Czechoslovakia and it is now Ukraine. The name of the hometown has
changed each time a new country "took over". This is very typical,
especially in Eastern Europe. All of the difficulties you describe are
very common to most of us, but we do make progress over time. Be
prepared for a long involvement in genealogy.

--


Herb Meyers
Boulder, Colorado