Date   

Re: Jewish Marriages #general

Doug Cohen <DMCohen@...>
 

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.

The result is that a great many couples were married by a Rabbi "according
to the law of Moses and the traditions of Israel", but not according to the
law of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The marriage would therefore not be
recorded by the civil authorities.

Children of such couples would be listed in the Austro-Hungarian metrical
records as illegitimate.

Just another example of legal discrimination against Jews.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA

Note New E-Mail Address:
DMC@dmcohen.com

<Bud484BG@aol.com> wrote:

I have a question re the postings on Jewish Marriages in Poland. Did this
apply to Jewish marriages in Poland only? My husband's father was born in
Vienna, Austria in 1898, and was 2 yrs old when his parents emigrated to
the U.S. I received his birth record >from the Vienna source (through
JewishGen) and his father's surname does not appear anywhere on the birth
record. His mother's surname, Freedman is given and no name is given
for his father on the birth record.

I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not formally
registered their marriage in Vienna.

I have not been able to reconcile this since my husband's father and
mother emigrated to Vienna >from Lemberg and Lodz, respectively, and met
in Vienna.

The passenger manifest records in 1900 for the family show the surname as
Markel, my husband's father's name.

Anyone have any information on the method of formalizing Jewish marriages
in Vienna?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish Marriages #general

Doug Cohen <DMCohen@...>
 

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.

The result is that a great many couples were married by a Rabbi "according
to the law of Moses and the traditions of Israel", but not according to the
law of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The marriage would therefore not be
recorded by the civil authorities.

Children of such couples would be listed in the Austro-Hungarian metrical
records as illegitimate.

Just another example of legal discrimination against Jews.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA

Note New E-Mail Address:
DMC@dmcohen.com

<Bud484BG@aol.com> wrote:

I have a question re the postings on Jewish Marriages in Poland. Did this
apply to Jewish marriages in Poland only? My husband's father was born in
Vienna, Austria in 1898, and was 2 yrs old when his parents emigrated to
the U.S. I received his birth record >from the Vienna source (through
JewishGen) and his father's surname does not appear anywhere on the birth
record. His mother's surname, Freedman is given and no name is given
for his father on the birth record.

I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not formally
registered their marriage in Vienna.

I have not been able to reconcile this since my husband's father and
mother emigrated to Vienna >from Lemberg and Lodz, respectively, and met
in Vienna.

The passenger manifest records in 1900 for the family show the surname as
Markel, my husband's father's name.

Anyone have any information on the method of formalizing Jewish marriages
in Vienna?


Re: Children out of wedlock #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

In addition to the very valid points Roberta Sheps has pointed out, I
would like to add the issue of the potential pain that this might cause to
this child, it certainly is no fault of his own that he was born out of
wedlock. I truly believe that this is one of those occasions that human
feelings ought to take precedence over precise professionalism. There is
also the feelings of the future generations to consider.

Though it is very important for the child itself to know, and perhaps
this information should be passed down to its descendants - I do not think
that this should be divulged on a family tree of any sort. Either the
birthdates should be left out - leaving the impression that it might have
been born to a previous marriage - or we should simply pretend that we do
not know. Though truth is one of the foundations of the world, in such an
instance human feelings must come first. We should put ourselves in the
position of this child or its children and recognize that in most cases it
will be horrified that the family secret has gone public. The gravity of
human emotions is much higher than any legal issue of privacy, we have to
do what is right, not only what is legal.

To any reader that might have been born out of wedlock, or a descendant of
one, please do not misunderstand this message as an insult - rather a
respnse to protect the feelings of the very many that choose conceal such a
thing. Our Patriach Josef (whose tomb was burned just weeks ago) did not
hesitate to marry his niece - Osnas the daughter of his sister Dinah who
was conceived when Dinah was raped by Shchem. Furthemore >from this marriage
arose two tribes in Israel, Menassa and Ephraim.

Abraham J. Heschel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Children out of wedlock #general

Brandler Institute of Chasidic Thought <bict@...>
 

In addition to the very valid points Roberta Sheps has pointed out, I
would like to add the issue of the potential pain that this might cause to
this child, it certainly is no fault of his own that he was born out of
wedlock. I truly believe that this is one of those occasions that human
feelings ought to take precedence over precise professionalism. There is
also the feelings of the future generations to consider.

Though it is very important for the child itself to know, and perhaps
this information should be passed down to its descendants - I do not think
that this should be divulged on a family tree of any sort. Either the
birthdates should be left out - leaving the impression that it might have
been born to a previous marriage - or we should simply pretend that we do
not know. Though truth is one of the foundations of the world, in such an
instance human feelings must come first. We should put ourselves in the
position of this child or its children and recognize that in most cases it
will be horrified that the family secret has gone public. The gravity of
human emotions is much higher than any legal issue of privacy, we have to
do what is right, not only what is legal.

To any reader that might have been born out of wedlock, or a descendant of
one, please do not misunderstand this message as an insult - rather a
respnse to protect the feelings of the very many that choose conceal such a
thing. Our Patriach Josef (whose tomb was burned just weeks ago) did not
hesitate to marry his niece - Osnas the daughter of his sister Dinah who
was conceived when Dinah was raped by Shchem. Furthemore >from this marriage
arose two tribes in Israel, Menassa and Ephraim.

Abraham J. Heschel


Minsk Draft Dodgers #belarus

Marcia Katzel DeVries <marciadv@...>
 

Logan Lockabey wrote on Mon. 27 Nov.:

<prepared by Vitaly Charny. I discovered 17 surnames that appear on my
<family tree. My question is, "What can I do with this information?"
<"Is there other information available rather than just the surnames?"

<Perhaps Mr. Charny could respond.>

I also found one of my surnames. I have the same questions as Logan.

Marcia Katzel DeVries
Concord, California

Researching:
KATZEL: Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio
BRAUER: Lithuania?;Novogrodek,Belarus?>England
BOOKATZ: Birzai,Lithuania?;Riga,Latvia?>England>Philadelphia>Cleveland,Ohio
GOLDSTEIN: Bogoslaviskis,Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio
BURSTEIN: Bogoslaviskis,Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio


Belarus SIG #Belarus Minsk Draft Dodgers #belarus

Marcia Katzel DeVries <marciadv@...>
 

Logan Lockabey wrote on Mon. 27 Nov.:

<prepared by Vitaly Charny. I discovered 17 surnames that appear on my
<family tree. My question is, "What can I do with this information?"
<"Is there other information available rather than just the surnames?"

<Perhaps Mr. Charny could respond.>

I also found one of my surnames. I have the same questions as Logan.

Marcia Katzel DeVries
Concord, California

Researching:
KATZEL: Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio
BRAUER: Lithuania?;Novogrodek,Belarus?>England
BOOKATZ: Birzai,Lithuania?;Riga,Latvia?>England>Philadelphia>Cleveland,Ohio
GOLDSTEIN: Bogoslaviskis,Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio
BURSTEIN: Bogoslaviskis,Vilkomir,Lithuania>Cleveland,Ohio


From Ostersk and Kozelsk #ukraine

LindaJim Morzillo <jmorzil1@...>
 

I just joined your discussion group because I very recently found out that
my maternal grandfather's family relocated in 1881 >from Ostersk (Oster) and
Kozelsk (Kozelets), towns very near each other in Chernigov Gubernia to
Rostov-on-Don. A very generous researcher visited Rostov-on-Don and did
some wonderful research for some of us with roots in that city. My
grandfather was born in Rostov-on-Don, but the records show that his parents
and other relatives were born(?) in those two Ukrainian towns.

Has anyone found Erlichman or Amchislavsky in their family trees? Yes, I
did look in the JGFF, but by chance someone reading this who has not listed
these names may know something. Thank you.

Linda Morzillo
Saratoga Springs, NY
Jmorzil1@nycap.rr.com

Researching:

PRESS and SCHNEIDER in Vidukle and Kaunas
AMCHISLAVSKY and ERLICHMAN in Rostov-on-Don and previously Kozelsk and
Oster, Chernigov Gubernia
COHEN/KAGAN and BORNSTEIN in Oshmyany, Vilna and France
KOSOFSKY in Stuchin/Szczuczyn/Shchuchyn/Scucyn
SWOTINSKY in Grodno Gubernia Poland/Russia/Belarus


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine From Ostersk and Kozelsk #ukraine

LindaJim Morzillo <jmorzil1@...>
 

I just joined your discussion group because I very recently found out that
my maternal grandfather's family relocated in 1881 >from Ostersk (Oster) and
Kozelsk (Kozelets), towns very near each other in Chernigov Gubernia to
Rostov-on-Don. A very generous researcher visited Rostov-on-Don and did
some wonderful research for some of us with roots in that city. My
grandfather was born in Rostov-on-Don, but the records show that his parents
and other relatives were born(?) in those two Ukrainian towns.

Has anyone found Erlichman or Amchislavsky in their family trees? Yes, I
did look in the JGFF, but by chance someone reading this who has not listed
these names may know something. Thank you.

Linda Morzillo
Saratoga Springs, NY
Jmorzil1@nycap.rr.com

Researching:

PRESS and SCHNEIDER in Vidukle and Kaunas
AMCHISLAVSKY and ERLICHMAN in Rostov-on-Don and previously Kozelsk and
Oster, Chernigov Gubernia
COHEN/KAGAN and BORNSTEIN in Oshmyany, Vilna and France
KOSOFSKY in Stuchin/Szczuczyn/Shchuchyn/Scucyn
SWOTINSKY in Grodno Gubernia Poland/Russia/Belarus


Re: Zelekin, Zholkin, Zholkine #general

mjssds@...
 

Hi Mtyra,
There is a Hasidic village near where I live in Rockland County, NY that is called New Square. It is an english version I am told of New Skvira. The story I heard >from my father in law was that the Hasisic grand rebbe of Skvira had all his followers pack up and leave Skivira and follow him to the USA as the Nazis gained power. They set up a new village in what was then, the thirties, the boondocks. (Rockland also has a very large Hasisic community in Monsey all now part of a well to do NYC suburb.) The village is as close to a shetl as you can get and could possibly know or have records of your mother's family, assuming the story is correct which I believe it to be.
I suggest you look them up on the web, or via the phone book and give the town hall a call. It is a worth a shot.
Steve Sperman
New City, NY

PS My father-in-law, blessed be his memory, who had friends in New Square told me a story of watchng two boys playing in the street and yelling "Waft dem ball" in yiddish. It made him feel he was back on the lower east side of NYC where he grew up in the early 1900s.

Searching Chachachka and Seletsky, Pruzhany, Belarus;Steinberg and Lfschitz, Odessa, Ukraine;Sperman, Warsaw, Poland

Ukraine SIG <ukraine@lyris.jewishgen.org> wrote:

My Grandmother's maiden name was Zelinka or Zelinky or Zalinka. She came
from Skvira in Kiev Gub. The names of your towns sound so much like her
last name.

Myra Davis, Tucson, AZ
myrabokpg@juno.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Zelekin, Zholkin, Zholkine #ukraine

mjssds@...
 

Hi Mtyra,
There is a Hasidic village near where I live in Rockland County, NY that is called New Square. It is an english version I am told of New Skvira. The story I heard >from my father in law was that the Hasisic grand rebbe of Skvira had all his followers pack up and leave Skivira and follow him to the USA as the Nazis gained power. They set up a new village in what was then, the thirties, the boondocks. (Rockland also has a very large Hasisic community in Monsey all now part of a well to do NYC suburb.) The village is as close to a shetl as you can get and could possibly know or have records of your mother's family, assuming the story is correct which I believe it to be.
I suggest you look them up on the web, or via the phone book and give the town hall a call. It is a worth a shot.
Steve Sperman
New City, NY

PS My father-in-law, blessed be his memory, who had friends in New Square told me a story of watchng two boys playing in the street and yelling "Waft dem ball" in yiddish. It made him feel he was back on the lower east side of NYC where he grew up in the early 1900s.

Searching Chachachka and Seletsky, Pruzhany, Belarus;Steinberg and Lfschitz, Odessa, Ukraine;Sperman, Warsaw, Poland

Ukraine SIG <ukraine@lyris.jewishgen.org> wrote:

My Grandmother's maiden name was Zelinka or Zelinky or Zalinka. She came
from Skvira in Kiev Gub. The names of your towns sound so much like her
last name.

Myra Davis, Tucson, AZ
myrabokpg@juno.com


Bolekhov Translations donations #yizkorbooks

Susannah R. Juni <sjuni@...>
 

I recently wrote to request donations so that we can finish the translation
of the Bolekhov Yizkor Book. The following message is only for those of you
who prefer sending donations via shlep-post or fax (i.e., snail mail)
instead of via the web with a credit card.

The instructions for mailing contributions by snail mail should have the
following information. There is a form on the JewishGen donation page that
can be printed and should be included with a check so that the contribution
will be credited correctly. I'm told that the volunteers at JewishGen have
a lot of tsures with people not providing the "destination" for their
contribution. It takes hours of precious time to determine the correct
place. I encourage you to either make the contribution online or just be
sure to submit the printed form with your check.

You can access the printed form at
http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTransX.html
or by clicking on Printed Contribution Form at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html.

If you haven't already, please peek at the translation project for this
book at: www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/bolekhov/

I hope that all of you who have ancestry >from or interest in this area will
want to help with this important project. Thank you for your support!


A sheynem dank!
Susannah Juni


Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks Bolekhov Translations donations #yizkorbooks

Susannah R. Juni <sjuni@...>
 

I recently wrote to request donations so that we can finish the translation
of the Bolekhov Yizkor Book. The following message is only for those of you
who prefer sending donations via shlep-post or fax (i.e., snail mail)
instead of via the web with a credit card.

The instructions for mailing contributions by snail mail should have the
following information. There is a form on the JewishGen donation page that
can be printed and should be included with a check so that the contribution
will be credited correctly. I'm told that the volunteers at JewishGen have
a lot of tsures with people not providing the "destination" for their
contribution. It takes hours of precious time to determine the correct
place. I encourage you to either make the contribution online or just be
sure to submit the printed form with your check.

You can access the printed form at
http://www.JewishGen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTransX.html
or by clicking on Printed Contribution Form at
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/YizkorTrans.html.

If you haven't already, please peek at the translation project for this
book at: www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/bolekhov/

I hope that all of you who have ancestry >from or interest in this area will
want to help with this important project. Thank you for your support!


A sheynem dank!
Susannah Juni


Volochisk ? #general

moshe@...
 

Where is Volochisk ?
Thank you

moshe schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KADISH, KIRSCHNER, KIRZNER,
LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER, SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


Social Security number Question #general

moshe@...
 

If I need to find some ones Social Security number and I can not find on
the death index on the net. Where else can I find it? What forms would
they have had to fill out in there lifes with there Social Security number
on it. Thank you for your help.

moshe schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KADISH, KIRSCHNER, KIRZNER,
LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER, SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


Re: Ships from Bremen #general

Stephen Landau <stephen.landau@...>
 

This is not new to many, but FYI the Morton Allan Directory is on line at

http://www.cimorelli.com/safe/shipmenu.htm

You can find ships by date, name or by name/date combination between 1890
and 1930.

Stephen Landau
White Plains, NY
stephen.landau@att.net
http://roots.home.att.net

Researching:
LANDAU, Bochnia, Wisnicz [Nowy], Galicia, 1902 to US (NY)
WASSNER, Wielkie Oczy [Vilkutch], Galicia, 1900 to US (NY, MA)
GOLDSTEIN, Wielkie Oczy [Vilkutch], Galicia, 1903 to US (NY, MA)
MEINHARD[T], Gdow, Galicia, 1903+ to US (NY, NJ

Ilya Zeldes <ilyaz@iline.com> wrote

I'm trying to find a ship sailed >from Bremen (Bremerhaven) to New York in
December 1909 or January 1910. I looked in the German SIG, on LDS FHL and
on the Web in general, but found nothing... Any suggestions on how to
find it?
What shipping companies operated >from Bremen in 1909-1910? What ships
were employed? Since I have no name of the ship, I'm prepared to search
all the ships sailed in this time period.


Ekaterinoslav Railway #general

Roberta Sheps <roberta_l_sheps@...>
 

Can anyone tell me what geographical area the Northern Segment of the
Ekaterinoslav Railway would have covered? I have a cigarette case from
1914, inscribed to the recipient >from his "Colleagues on the Board of
the Northern Segment Ekaterinoslav Railway, Ekaterinoslav, 6 April
1914." As far as I was aware, all of that part of my family came from
the Vilna region.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Volochisk ? #general

moshe@...
 

Where is Volochisk ?
Thank you

moshe schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KADISH, KIRSCHNER, KIRZNER,
LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER, SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Social Security number Question #general

moshe@...
 

If I need to find some ones Social Security number and I can not find on
the death index on the net. Where else can I find it? What forms would
they have had to fill out in there lifes with there Social Security number
on it. Thank you for your help.

moshe schaeffer
Searching
BACHMAN, HIRSCHOWITZ, KAUFF, KADISH, KIRSCHNER, KIRZNER,
LEVY, ROSENSTEIN, SCHAEFFER, SCHAFFER, SHUVAL, WEISS


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ships from Bremen #general

Stephen Landau <stephen.landau@...>
 

This is not new to many, but FYI the Morton Allan Directory is on line at

http://www.cimorelli.com/safe/shipmenu.htm

You can find ships by date, name or by name/date combination between 1890
and 1930.

Stephen Landau
White Plains, NY
stephen.landau@att.net
http://roots.home.att.net

Researching:
LANDAU, Bochnia, Wisnicz [Nowy], Galicia, 1902 to US (NY)
WASSNER, Wielkie Oczy [Vilkutch], Galicia, 1900 to US (NY, MA)
GOLDSTEIN, Wielkie Oczy [Vilkutch], Galicia, 1903 to US (NY, MA)
MEINHARD[T], Gdow, Galicia, 1903+ to US (NY, NJ

Ilya Zeldes <ilyaz@iline.com> wrote

I'm trying to find a ship sailed >from Bremen (Bremerhaven) to New York in
December 1909 or January 1910. I looked in the German SIG, on LDS FHL and
on the Web in general, but found nothing... Any suggestions on how to
find it?
What shipping companies operated >from Bremen in 1909-1910? What ships
were employed? Since I have no name of the ship, I'm prepared to search
all the ships sailed in this time period.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ekaterinoslav Railway #general

Roberta Sheps <roberta_l_sheps@...>
 

Can anyone tell me what geographical area the Northern Segment of the
Ekaterinoslav Railway would have covered? I have a cigarette case from
1914, inscribed to the recipient >from his "Colleagues on the Board of
the Northern Segment Ekaterinoslav Railway, Ekaterinoslav, 6 April
1914." As far as I was aware, all of that part of my family came from
the Vilna region.

Roberta Sheps
Colchester, England