I, too, have been searching for family in Yelizevitgrad (Elizabethgrad) --
today known as Kirovohgrad.
MORDUKHOVICH (mother's maiden surname) -- My mother and siblings left for
the USA with my maternal grandmother in 1923. I believe they sailed on the
George Washington, probably >from Brem=E9n. They were originally from
Zlatopoli,but left there during Civil War pogroms, and were probably in
Yelisevitgrad between 1917 and 1923.


MOROZOVSKY -- (father's surname). My parents met and married in
Yelisevitgrad in 1923, the year my mother left for the U.S. He, too, left
in 1923 but could get only as far as Bremenhave, and lived in Germany
illegally until about 1926-28 when he was finally placed on the immigrant
quota list.

Is any of this familiar? If so, I have more information re names,
background, et al.

Helene Morrow
Pittsburgh

I, too, have been searching for family in Yelizevitgrad (Elizabethgrad) --
today known as Kirovohgrad.
MORDUKHOVICH (mother's maiden surname) -- My mother and siblings left for
the USA with my maternal grandmother in 1923. I believe they sailed on the
George Washington, probably >from Brem=E9n. They were originally from
Zlatopoli,but left there during Civil War pogroms, and were probably in
Yelisevitgrad between 1917 and 1923.


MOROZOVSKY -- (father's surname). My parents met and married in
Yelisevitgrad in 1923, the year my mother left for the U.S. He, too, left
in 1923 but could get only as far as Bremenhave, and lived in Germany
illegally until about 1926-28 when he was finally placed on the immigrant
quota list.

Is any of this familiar? If so, I have more information re names,
background, et al.

Helene Morrow
Pittsburgh

Message text written by "Ukraine SIG"

I would have thought "meshchanIN" comes >from the Russian word =

"MESto", meaning place or locality.<

This is correct. The word is usually translated as 'petty bourgeois',
or perhaps 'local merchant'. It often has a connotation of someone
with some money but little culture. =


Does anyone know the origin of this sort of classification of Russian
society? =

Moderator Note: Please remember to sign your postings as required on JewishGen

Message text written by "Ukraine SIG"

I would have thought "meshchanIN" comes >from the Russian word =

"MESto", meaning place or locality.<

This is correct. The word is usually translated as 'petty bourgeois',
or perhaps 'local merchant'. It often has a connotation of someone
with some money but little culture. =


Does anyone know the origin of this sort of classification of Russian
society? =

Moderator Note: Please remember to sign your postings as required on JewishGen

In a recent message, the questions posed,

"Now, if I can only find out where Spikov is and how to access military
records... "

I can't help with military records, but Spikov is in Ukraine, about 143.5 miles
SW of Kiev. The coordinates are 48.47N 28.34E.

You can easily obtain such information by going to the Jewishgen homepage
and clicking on the link to Shetl Seeker Town Search.

Ben Okner

Address omitted by Moderator on Duty

In a recent message, the questions posed,

"Now, if I can only find out where Spikov is and how to access military
records... "

I can't help with military records, but Spikov is in Ukraine, about 143.5 miles
SW of Kiev. The coordinates are 48.47N 28.34E.

You can easily obtain such information by going to the Jewishgen homepage
and clicking on the link to Shetl Seeker Town Search.

Ben Okner

Address omitted by Moderator on Duty

Hello to everyone

I am all new on this sig and in Jewish genealogy.
I am searching for informations on my wife's family,
especially on Leopold ACKERMAN,who's born
in Kamenets Podolskiy in 1860 (and died in Paris
in 1934),
and his parents ,Marcus and Amelie BERST(E)IN.
Leopold ACKERMAN has moved in France where
he married Lise FRANCK.
Where can I find informations, if there are ?
Thank you for your advices and (hoped) help.


Dominique Legendre
12000 Rodez - France
legendrerodez@wanadoo.fr

Hello to everyone

I am all new on this sig and in Jewish genealogy.
I am searching for informations on my wife's family,
especially on Leopold ACKERMAN,who's born
in Kamenets Podolskiy in 1860 (and died in Paris
in 1934),
and his parents ,Marcus and Amelie BERST(E)IN.
Leopold ACKERMAN has moved in France where
he married Lise FRANCK.
Where can I find informations, if there are ?
Thank you for your advices and (hoped) help.


Dominique Legendre
12000 Rodez - France
legendrerodez@wanadoo.fr

I want to thank all those who wrote to me and helped me figure out what
my aunt's Hebrew name must have been. What was wrong was my pronouncing
the CH like chicklets or children instead of the gutteral Ch like in
Challa. When you do that it makes more sense. Probably my cousin, her
son, misspelled it also.
Again thanks for all the responses.

Myra Davis, Tucson, AZ
myrabokpg@juno.com

I want to thank all those who wrote to me and helped me figure out what
my aunt's Hebrew name must have been. What was wrong was my pronouncing
the CH like chicklets or children instead of the gutteral Ch like in
Challa. When you do that it makes more sense. Probably my cousin, her
son, misspelled it also.
Again thanks for all the responses.

Myra Davis, Tucson, AZ
myrabokpg@juno.com

arieders@bellsouth.net (Alice Rieders) wrote:

Lthorpe883@aol.com wrote:

Today I found a relative in the California Death Index.
I then checked the on-line Social Security Death Index, and he did not
appear.

The CA Death Records Index covers the period 1940-1997.
The SSDI includes few deaths prior to 1965.
Did your relative die between 1940 and 1965?

Besides one's death, there is another thing that has to happen in
order to get one into the Social Security Death Index: Somebody has to
notify the Social Security Administration and to make a claim for
survivors benefits. No claim, no listing. That, anyway, is what it
says on the SSDI website. And if that is true, then it isn't actually
a death index, but a claims index. In other words, one can't expect to
find in the SSDI persons who did not leave beneficiaries behind, or
those e.g. so estranged >from their families that their death was not
known to the potential beneficiaries, or those whose beneficiaries
failed for any reason to file the required claim.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.

arieders@bellsouth.net (Alice Rieders) wrote:

Lthorpe883@aol.com wrote:

Today I found a relative in the California Death Index.
I then checked the on-line Social Security Death Index, and he did not
appear.

The CA Death Records Index covers the period 1940-1997.
The SSDI includes few deaths prior to 1965.
Did your relative die between 1940 and 1965?

Besides one's death, there is another thing that has to happen in
order to get one into the Social Security Death Index: Somebody has to
notify the Social Security Administration and to make a claim for
survivors benefits. No claim, no listing. That, anyway, is what it
says on the SSDI website. And if that is true, then it isn't actually
a death index, but a claims index. In other words, one can't expect to
find in the SSDI persons who did not leave beneficiaries behind, or
those e.g. so estranged >from their families that their death was not
known to the potential beneficiaries, or those whose beneficiaries
failed for any reason to file the required claim.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.

This (admittedly small photo) is now available on the
< http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ > site as item # VM061. Will
re-scan it if anyone needs any more detail.

Shel

Searching: BERCOVICI, GOLDENBERG, MOSCOVICI - Dorohoi, Iasi &
Stefanesti, Romania
KLEBANOV (various spellings), LIPKIND - Minsk Gubernia; NYC
HECHTER (ECHSER), ZWANG - Tulchin & Botha, Ukraine; Israel

This (admittedly small photo) is now available on the
< http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ > site as item # VM061. Will
re-scan it if anyone needs any more detail.

Shel

Searching: BERCOVICI, GOLDENBERG, MOSCOVICI - Dorohoi, Iasi &
Stefanesti, Romania
KLEBANOV (various spellings), LIPKIND - Minsk Gubernia; NYC
HECHTER (ECHSER), ZWANG - Tulchin & Botha, Ukraine; Israel

I'm sure Stan is right, but I would check with a lawyer about whatever
advice any of us gives you - including me. Your description suggests
someone who's behavior may not be rational.

I have a few suggestions for you to look into. Many of us neglect to
source our info >from the very beginning. Your case may be a caution to do
it. Many family historians spend much time, energy, money on our work, so
we should protect our data by documenting it and give it the authority it
deserves.

First, My belief is that everyone doing family research should, malicious
relatives apart document sources: keep a record of how you found out what
you know in such a way that someone else could find the same information if
they followed your trail -- like marking trees in the forest so others can
find you. It is this documentation that validates and legitimizes your
work and gives you your authority to pronounce the (probable) wheres,
whens, etc. of your family history. If you have the documentation and your
relative doesn't that will support your position. This may become
increasingly key if you turn up information other family members prefer to
forget or deny. (We've seen numerous instances noted on this forum.)

Take a historian's stance: document in detail *how* you learned everything
you learn. The standard is that anyone should be able to go to your
sources to find the same materials (excepting perhaps private papers such
as letters, photographs, diaries that remain in private hands). Generous
cousin gave me much family information. In the event I were to publish my
researches, I would list them as a general resources (and in some cases as
the source)as even my extensions to this work would have been immeasurably
more difficult without it. Where they supplied documents to me I would say
so, and also cite the archival repository. As I accumulate documents I
find some of the data >from these family sources may be inaccurate; in these
cases I would use my own information and merely cite my documentary source.


If it's an interview: who told you, when, where, by phone, in person, and
how reliable is your informant (the relationship of the informant to the
data: was he present at the event, is it someone with failing memory or
someone passing on what others, etc. told him - you get the picture). If
you have the information out of your personal memory of people and events,
document that also and rate yourself on your certainty.

When information comes >from documents (vital statistics, wills, deeds,
naturalization papers, city directories, ships' records, etc) then indicate
the repository where the document is located, the book or microfilm roll#
containing the information, etc. In addition, when possible, get the
documents.

These are all things that you may have been doing all along, if not go back
and fill in the blanks. To publish your material - even if only to
distribute among family members - this documentation should be there
anyway. A good genealogy program it will help keep records straight,
generate reports, and do footnotes and bibliography. Be sure it allows
thorough source data.

Documentary evidence is the strongest defense (both epistemologically as
well as legally). Try to have the document in your possession; note where
you got it. For notes on some microfilm or book, etc., have a record of
the source (i.e., The title of the book, it's author, the publisher and
date; photograph of a gravestone at x cemetery, National Archives, 1900 US
Census for Pennsylvania, microfilm #0000 contains ggf Isaac's
naturalization papers on which he states he came >from shetl x, Poland,
listed his wife's date of birth, etc.). There are books out there (Mills,
Landry, etc.) that will give you an idea of exactly what constitutes proper
documentation for different sorts of source materials.

In addition - and check this out legally, don't rely on my say so - it is
my understanding with all intellectual property including photographs,
paintings, videos, as well as writings, that you can use the copyright mark
with your name and the date (©Barbara Harris, 2000) whenever you make these
public. If true, then you needn't apply to the Copyright Office to protect
yourself while in the process of collecting your materials before
publication. I'm told, perhaps erroneously, that you can mail a copy of
the work at issue to yourself and keep it with its postmark unopened as
evidence.

Intellectual honesty, common decency, and fairness should guide us all in
giving due credit to the work of others; lawyers and copyright laws are
there for the exceptions. Respect for our "readers" and a desire to
authenticate our work should lead us all to document our research. I doubt
your cousin could prevail against you, but document everything you've done
and do in the future -- and check with a lawyer.

Barbara Harris

I'm sure Stan is right, but I would check with a lawyer about whatever
advice any of us gives you - including me. Your description suggests
someone who's behavior may not be rational.

I have a few suggestions for you to look into. Many of us neglect to
source our info >from the very beginning. Your case may be a caution to do
it. Many family historians spend much time, energy, money on our work, so
we should protect our data by documenting it and give it the authority it
deserves.

First, My belief is that everyone doing family research should, malicious
relatives apart document sources: keep a record of how you found out what
you know in such a way that someone else could find the same information if
they followed your trail -- like marking trees in the forest so others can
find you. It is this documentation that validates and legitimizes your
work and gives you your authority to pronounce the (probable) wheres,
whens, etc. of your family history. If you have the documentation and your
relative doesn't that will support your position. This may become
increasingly key if you turn up information other family members prefer to
forget or deny. (We've seen numerous instances noted on this forum.)

Take a historian's stance: document in detail *how* you learned everything
you learn. The standard is that anyone should be able to go to your
sources to find the same materials (excepting perhaps private papers such
as letters, photographs, diaries that remain in private hands). Generous
cousin gave me much family information. In the event I were to publish my
researches, I would list them as a general resources (and in some cases as
the source)as even my extensions to this work would have been immeasurably
more difficult without it. Where they supplied documents to me I would say
so, and also cite the archival repository. As I accumulate documents I
find some of the data >from these family sources may be inaccurate; in these
cases I would use my own information and merely cite my documentary source.


If it's an interview: who told you, when, where, by phone, in person, and
how reliable is your informant (the relationship of the informant to the
data: was he present at the event, is it someone with failing memory or
someone passing on what others, etc. told him - you get the picture). If
you have the information out of your personal memory of people and events,
document that also and rate yourself on your certainty.

When information comes >from documents (vital statistics, wills, deeds,
naturalization papers, city directories, ships' records, etc) then indicate
the repository where the document is located, the book or microfilm roll#
containing the information, etc. In addition, when possible, get the
documents.

These are all things that you may have been doing all along, if not go back
and fill in the blanks. To publish your material - even if only to
distribute among family members - this documentation should be there
anyway. A good genealogy program it will help keep records straight,
generate reports, and do footnotes and bibliography. Be sure it allows
thorough source data.

Documentary evidence is the strongest defense (both epistemologically as
well as legally). Try to have the document in your possession; note where
you got it. For notes on some microfilm or book, etc., have a record of
the source (i.e., The title of the book, it's author, the publisher and
date; photograph of a gravestone at x cemetery, National Archives, 1900 US
Census for Pennsylvania, microfilm #0000 contains ggf Isaac's
naturalization papers on which he states he came >from shetl x, Poland,
listed his wife's date of birth, etc.). There are books out there (Mills,
Landry, etc.) that will give you an idea of exactly what constitutes proper
documentation for different sorts of source materials.

In addition - and check this out legally, don't rely on my say so - it is
my understanding with all intellectual property including photographs,
paintings, videos, as well as writings, that you can use the copyright mark
with your name and the date (©Barbara Harris, 2000) whenever you make these
public. If true, then you needn't apply to the Copyright Office to protect
yourself while in the process of collecting your materials before
publication. I'm told, perhaps erroneously, that you can mail a copy of
the work at issue to yourself and keep it with its postmark unopened as
evidence.

Intellectual honesty, common decency, and fairness should guide us all in
giving due credit to the work of others; lawyers and copyright laws are
there for the exceptions. Respect for our "readers" and a desire to
authenticate our work should lead us all to document our research. I doubt
your cousin could prevail against you, but document everything you've done
and do in the future -- and check with a lawyer.

Barbara Harris

Hi Linda

You might infer that no SSN benefits were paid. My deceased first
husband worked for the Post Office, and he had a pension. He did NOT
contribute to SSN, but he did have an SSN number. Since he never
contributed to SSN, I could not claim any death benefits. I believe
that the railroad was the same way.

Elynn Boss

Hi Linda

You might infer that no SSN benefits were paid. My deceased first
husband worked for the Post Office, and he had a pension. He did NOT
contribute to SSN, but he did have an SSN number. Since he never
contributed to SSN, I could not claim any death benefits. I believe
that the railroad was the same way.

Elynn Boss

If you go the the USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark Office) at:
www.uspto.gov
you will be able to enter their Searchable Database link and call up the
entire patent text on screen. You can also get a copy of the patent for
$3.00 as an attachment to an email and open it with an Adobe Reader (free
download.) The ordered copy will include the drawings.

Hugh Dubb

Sherri Bobish wrote:

If you go the the USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark Office) at:
www.uspto.gov
you will be able to enter their Searchable Database link and call up the
entire patent text on screen. You can also get a copy of the patent for
$3.00 as an attachment to an email and open it with an Adobe Reader (free
download.) The ordered copy will include the drawings.

Hugh Dubb

Sherri Bobish wrote: