Date   

Re: Family name GRUPEL in LIBAU #lithuania

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

As Libau is in Latvia it would be worth your while to post this message on
both the Courland and Latvia SIG newsgroups.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Just a reminder for those LitvakSIG digest subscribers whose ancestral towns may have been near -- or just over -- the border: Check out the nearby regional SIG discussion groups at <http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv/sigs.htm>


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania re:Family name GRUPEL in LIBAU #lithuania

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

As Libau is in Latvia it would be worth your while to post this message on
both the Courland and Latvia SIG newsgroups.

Arlene Beare
President Latvia SIG

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Just a reminder for those LitvakSIG digest subscribers whose ancestral towns may have been near -- or just over -- the border: Check out the nearby regional SIG discussion groups at <http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv/sigs.htm>


Re: Town of Dubossar(i), Ukraine #general

Tomek Liniecki <liniecki@...>
 

Part of our family are listed as having been born in the town of
Dubossar or Dubossari, in the region of Cherson in Ukraine. I have found
a town Cherson not far >from Odessa at 4638 3236, but I do not seem to be
able to locate Dubossar(I). Is it possible that this town no longer
exists? Or perhaps the name has been changed?

Thanks for your help!
Lucy,

You probably search through the wrong maps. Dubossari used to be a part of
Soviet Ukraina, but since about1991 that part of the country, populated
mostly by Romanian speaking folks, separated >from Ukrainian state and
formed a new state - Moldova. The town Dubossari is still there and is
doing well (as far as that's possible in this part of the world).

Regards,
Tomasz Linetzky


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Town of Dubossar(i), Ukraine #general

Tomek Liniecki <liniecki@...>
 

Part of our family are listed as having been born in the town of
Dubossar or Dubossari, in the region of Cherson in Ukraine. I have found
a town Cherson not far >from Odessa at 4638 3236, but I do not seem to be
able to locate Dubossar(I). Is it possible that this town no longer
exists? Or perhaps the name has been changed?

Thanks for your help!
Lucy,

You probably search through the wrong maps. Dubossari used to be a part of
Soviet Ukraina, but since about1991 that part of the country, populated
mostly by Romanian speaking folks, separated >from Ukrainian state and
formed a new state - Moldova. The town Dubossari is still there and is
doing well (as far as that's possible in this part of the world).

Regards,
Tomasz Linetzky


Re: Surname PRINCE from Jaroslaw #general

Tomek Liniecki <liniecki@...>
 

In researching my maternal lineI have been examining the LDS records from
Jaroslaw for the surname Prince. Although the records are in Cyrillic, it
is clear that nothing resembling "Prince" can be found.Would Prince be an
Anglicized version of a Polish Name? Any help would be appreciated.
I suggest to search for Herzog. In Russian it shall start with letter G.

Regards,

Tomasz Linetzky


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Surname PRINCE from Jaroslaw #general

Tomek Liniecki <liniecki@...>
 

In researching my maternal lineI have been examining the LDS records from
Jaroslaw for the surname Prince. Although the records are in Cyrillic, it
is clear that nothing resembling "Prince" can be found.Would Prince be an
Anglicized version of a Polish Name? Any help would be appreciated.
I suggest to search for Herzog. In Russian it shall start with letter G.

Regards,

Tomasz Linetzky


Re: My Grandfather Israel Wulfow #ciechanow #poland

ggold <ggold@...>
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Majer is the son of Mosek.

Mosek is the son of Mortko.
Thank you,Jonathan. With regard to this, then:

BARTNIK Mosek 8, Guta Aronowicz, Estera Joskow, 36 Ciechanow 1834 M
702466
ICKOW Estera Frayda 8, Icek Herszkowicz, Blima Jakubow, 22 Ciechanow 1834 M
702466


Mosek is the son of Guta, and Guta is son of Aron?

Estera is the daughter of Icek, and Icek is son of Herszko?

What is the significance of the "owicz?"

Joskow is the maiden name for Estera?

Jakubow is the maiden name for Blima?

Thanks in advance,

Gary Goldstein


#Ciechanow #Poland RE: My Grandfather Israel Wulfow #ciechanow #poland

ggold <ggold@...>
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Majer is the son of Mosek.

Mosek is the son of Mortko.
Thank you,Jonathan. With regard to this, then:

BARTNIK Mosek 8, Guta Aronowicz, Estera Joskow, 36 Ciechanow 1834 M
702466
ICKOW Estera Frayda 8, Icek Herszkowicz, Blima Jakubow, 22 Ciechanow 1834 M
702466


Mosek is the son of Guta, and Guta is son of Aron?

Estera is the daughter of Icek, and Icek is son of Herszko?

What is the significance of the "owicz?"

Joskow is the maiden name for Estera?

Jakubow is the maiden name for Blima?

Thanks in advance,

Gary Goldstein


View Mate Translation needed #general

encore <encore@...>
 

Please assist with "script" translation on View Mate #143. Looking for
names, relationships, locations, dates. Thank you


Neil Stein


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen View Mate Translation needed #general

encore <encore@...>
 

Please assist with "script" translation on View Mate #143. Looking for
names, relationships, locations, dates. Thank you


Neil Stein


Woman's name after a divorce #general

Carol Rombro Rider
 

<< Does anyone know what the practice was in the Pale of Settlement
regarding a woman's name after a divorce. I recently discovered
that on a ship manifest, while immigrating to the US, my aunt was
travelling under her maiden name.
She had been married, but we are not sure whether she was divorced
or widowed. Would it have been the practice to revert to a maiden
name in either of these cases? And what about children, if they
stayed with the mother?>> (Posted on the Belarus SIG)

What an interesting question! I don't recall seeing this addressed before.
I have a passport of a relative >from Russia (Vilna Gubernia) who in 1893
came into the US. There are two names on the passport--hers and her
daughter.
The passport clearly states that she was a divorced woman traveling with
her daughter. She went by the name of Rosa UGER, and her daughter
travelled under the name of Chana Freda ROMBRO.

So, apparently, she reverted to her maiden name. Was this obligatory or
by choice? I don't know.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Woman's name after a divorce #general

Carol Rombro Rider
 

<< Does anyone know what the practice was in the Pale of Settlement
regarding a woman's name after a divorce. I recently discovered
that on a ship manifest, while immigrating to the US, my aunt was
travelling under her maiden name.
She had been married, but we are not sure whether she was divorced
or widowed. Would it have been the practice to revert to a maiden
name in either of these cases? And what about children, if they
stayed with the mother?>> (Posted on the Belarus SIG)

What an interesting question! I don't recall seeing this addressed before.
I have a passport of a relative >from Russia (Vilna Gubernia) who in 1893
came into the US. There are two names on the passport--hers and her
daughter.
The passport clearly states that she was a divorced woman traveling with
her daughter. She went by the name of Rosa UGER, and her daughter
travelled under the name of Chana Freda ROMBRO.

So, apparently, she reverted to her maiden name. Was this obligatory or
by choice? I don't know.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


Russian Laws of 1804 (#2) #belarus

Vcharny@...
 

For the first part look at the Belarus SIG digest Archives.

When you read laws and regulations regarding Jews in the Russian
Empire, consider the time and the place. There was no religious
and cultural tolerance on a modern scale between Christians and
Jews in society. There was almost no common ground between their
cultures, but only business relations that were a vital necessity.
Most Jewish teenagers, even in the mid nineteenth century, didn't
speak or understand well the Russian language.
It was almost impossible at that time (1804), in practice, to go
to a Russian school and remain a Jew. Only in 1854 did the first
schools open in the Russian Empire (Minsk and Vilno) that were
specially for Jewish children in that they taught some secular
subjects along with traditional Jewish education. Therefore,
although the part of the laws about education for Jews in Russian
institutions seemed beneficial, >from a Jewish point of view this
gave no real advantage but was another attempt at culturally and
educationally assimilating the Jews.

Now back to the document.

Regulations for Jews (translator's notes in parentheses):

I. About enlightenment.

1. All Jewish children may be accepted and taught, without any
differences >from other children, in all Russian public (elementary)
schools, gymnasiums (high school) and universities.

2. Jewish children, while attending school, cannot be diverted
from their religion under any circumstances, cannot be forced to
learn that which is adverse to their religion and even could
contradict their religion.

3. Jewish children attending parochial or uyezd (district) schools,
may wear Jewish dress, but those attending gymnasiums must wear
German or Polish [style] dress for the purpose of uniformity.

4. Jewish children will be accepted to St. Peterburg Academy of
Arts if they show talent and inclination. Then they must wear
German dress.

5. Those Jews who, by their ability, reach certain levels of
achievement in universities in Medicine, Surgery, Physics,
Mathematics and other fields, will be acknowledged and promoted
to university degrees on a level with all other Russian subjects.

6. In the case of Jews who, despite all these motivations, refuse
to send their children to common public schools, then there will be
established at their expense special schools for their children to
study, and necessary tax must be determined through government
consideration.(Taxes will be collected >from Jews to create public
Jewish schools under government control.) Among the subjects taught
must be one of these languages: Russian, Polish or German.

7. After six years have expired since the publication of this
regulation, all bookkeeping and other merchant's documentation and
correspondence between Jews must be written in one of these languages:
Russian, Polish or German, or contain a translation on one side [of
the page].

8. All Jews who reside in the Russian Empire have the right to
use their language in all matters related to their faith and in
everyday life. They must, beginning January 1, 1807, use Russian,
Polish or German languages in all public documents, deeds, bills
of exchange, bonds, obligations, etc. Without this, no any
documents will be accepted.

9. >from the time of [publishing] this regulation, anyone who
would like to be elected as a Member of Town Council >from among
the Jews in the gubernias incorporated >from Poland, for general
order and uniformity must wear Russian or Polish dress if they
do not like to wear German dress. In the Russian gubernias, where
Jews are permitted to live, in case of election to Town Council,
Jews must wear German dress. Beginning in 1808, no Jew will be
elected as a Member of Town Council who cannot read and write in
one of these languages: Russian, German or Polish.

10. >from the beginning of the year 1812, nobody can be elected or
appointed to any position in Kahal or the Rabbinate without being
literate in one of these designated languages.

With appreciation to Laura Benjaminson for her help.

Vitaly Charny
Birmingham, AL


Belarus SIG #Belarus Russian Laws of 1804 (#2) #belarus

Vcharny@...
 

For the first part look at the Belarus SIG digest Archives.

When you read laws and regulations regarding Jews in the Russian
Empire, consider the time and the place. There was no religious
and cultural tolerance on a modern scale between Christians and
Jews in society. There was almost no common ground between their
cultures, but only business relations that were a vital necessity.
Most Jewish teenagers, even in the mid nineteenth century, didn't
speak or understand well the Russian language.
It was almost impossible at that time (1804), in practice, to go
to a Russian school and remain a Jew. Only in 1854 did the first
schools open in the Russian Empire (Minsk and Vilno) that were
specially for Jewish children in that they taught some secular
subjects along with traditional Jewish education. Therefore,
although the part of the laws about education for Jews in Russian
institutions seemed beneficial, >from a Jewish point of view this
gave no real advantage but was another attempt at culturally and
educationally assimilating the Jews.

Now back to the document.

Regulations for Jews (translator's notes in parentheses):

I. About enlightenment.

1. All Jewish children may be accepted and taught, without any
differences >from other children, in all Russian public (elementary)
schools, gymnasiums (high school) and universities.

2. Jewish children, while attending school, cannot be diverted
from their religion under any circumstances, cannot be forced to
learn that which is adverse to their religion and even could
contradict their religion.

3. Jewish children attending parochial or uyezd (district) schools,
may wear Jewish dress, but those attending gymnasiums must wear
German or Polish [style] dress for the purpose of uniformity.

4. Jewish children will be accepted to St. Peterburg Academy of
Arts if they show talent and inclination. Then they must wear
German dress.

5. Those Jews who, by their ability, reach certain levels of
achievement in universities in Medicine, Surgery, Physics,
Mathematics and other fields, will be acknowledged and promoted
to university degrees on a level with all other Russian subjects.

6. In the case of Jews who, despite all these motivations, refuse
to send their children to common public schools, then there will be
established at their expense special schools for their children to
study, and necessary tax must be determined through government
consideration.(Taxes will be collected >from Jews to create public
Jewish schools under government control.) Among the subjects taught
must be one of these languages: Russian, Polish or German.

7. After six years have expired since the publication of this
regulation, all bookkeeping and other merchant's documentation and
correspondence between Jews must be written in one of these languages:
Russian, Polish or German, or contain a translation on one side [of
the page].

8. All Jews who reside in the Russian Empire have the right to
use their language in all matters related to their faith and in
everyday life. They must, beginning January 1, 1807, use Russian,
Polish or German languages in all public documents, deeds, bills
of exchange, bonds, obligations, etc. Without this, no any
documents will be accepted.

9. >from the time of [publishing] this regulation, anyone who
would like to be elected as a Member of Town Council >from among
the Jews in the gubernias incorporated >from Poland, for general
order and uniformity must wear Russian or Polish dress if they
do not like to wear German dress. In the Russian gubernias, where
Jews are permitted to live, in case of election to Town Council,
Jews must wear German dress. Beginning in 1808, no Jew will be
elected as a Member of Town Council who cannot read and write in
one of these languages: Russian, German or Polish.

10. >from the beginning of the year 1812, nobody can be elected or
appointed to any position in Kahal or the Rabbinate without being
literate in one of these designated languages.

With appreciation to Laura Benjaminson for her help.

Vitaly Charny
Birmingham, AL


Woman's name after a divorce #belarus

Carol Rombro Rider
 

<< Does anyone know what the practice was in the Pale of Settlement
regarding a woman's name after a divorce. I recently discovered
that on a ship manifest, while immigrating to the US, my aunt was
travelling under her maiden name.
She had been married, but we are not sure whether she was divorced
or widowed. Would it have been the practice to revert to a maiden
name in either of these cases? And what about children, if they
stayed with the mother?>>

What an interesting question! I don't recall seeing this addressed before.
I have a passport of a relative >from Russia (Vilna Gubernia) who in 1893 came
into the US. There are two names on the passport--hers and her daughter.
The passport clearly states that she was a divorced woman traveling with her
daughter. She went by the name of Rosa UGER, and her daughter travelled
under the name of Chana Freda ROMBRO.

So, apparently, she reverted to her maiden name. Was this obligatory or by
choice? I don't know.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Woman's name after a divorce #belarus

Carol Rombro Rider
 

<< Does anyone know what the practice was in the Pale of Settlement
regarding a woman's name after a divorce. I recently discovered
that on a ship manifest, while immigrating to the US, my aunt was
travelling under her maiden name.
She had been married, but we are not sure whether she was divorced
or widowed. Would it have been the practice to revert to a maiden
name in either of these cases? And what about children, if they
stayed with the mother?>>

What an interesting question! I don't recall seeing this addressed before.
I have a passport of a relative >from Russia (Vilna Gubernia) who in 1893 came
into the US. There are two names on the passport--hers and her daughter.
The passport clearly states that she was a divorced woman traveling with her
daughter. She went by the name of Rosa UGER, and her daughter travelled
under the name of Chana Freda ROMBRO.

So, apparently, she reverted to her maiden name. Was this obligatory or by
choice? I don't know.

Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@aol.com


Re: old telefon directories in France #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 

According to France Telecom, the only place to see all the collection of
old telephone books is the Bibliotheque Francois Mitterand (National
Library).
In Paris Archives, there are only the "Bottin" or other professional lists.
I just had a telephone call with the specialized archivist in the
Bibliotheque Administrative de la ville de Paris, in Hotel de Ville
(Administrative Library of Paris), she told me that they have an incomplete
paper collection of the telephone books for Paris >from 1921 and for the
suburbs >from 1970. There are no books for 1940-1944. According to her it
has not been microfilmed by the Mormons (but maybe she is mistaking?)
She also told me that France Telecom will open at the end of the year 2000
a documentation center where it will be possible to consult the entire
collection >from the begining for all France. I don't know if it will be on
paper, microfilms or computerized.
Anne Lifshitz-Krams
Cercle de Genealogie Juive, Paris, France
http://www.genealoj.org

Jan Bousse <boussejan@pandora.be@telenet-ops.be> a écrit dans le message :
3A2CC015.31CA63FD@pandora.be...
If I understand Marie Lubman correctly, she is interested in telephone
directories in France >from the 1930s.
I found that the Bibliothèque Nationale de France at Tolbiac,
Paris, has, on microfilm, all the telephone books of France

I would be interested to know more about the collection at the Hotel de
Ville de Paris, as mentioned by Micheline Gutmann. Are they as complete,
in paper or also on microfilm? I hope Micheline could enlighten me and
the List. Thanks.

Jan Bousse, Oostende, Belgium.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: old telefon directories in France #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 

According to France Telecom, the only place to see all the collection of
old telephone books is the Bibliotheque Francois Mitterand (National
Library).
In Paris Archives, there are only the "Bottin" or other professional lists.
I just had a telephone call with the specialized archivist in the
Bibliotheque Administrative de la ville de Paris, in Hotel de Ville
(Administrative Library of Paris), she told me that they have an incomplete
paper collection of the telephone books for Paris >from 1921 and for the
suburbs >from 1970. There are no books for 1940-1944. According to her it
has not been microfilmed by the Mormons (but maybe she is mistaking?)
She also told me that France Telecom will open at the end of the year 2000
a documentation center where it will be possible to consult the entire
collection >from the begining for all France. I don't know if it will be on
paper, microfilms or computerized.
Anne Lifshitz-Krams
Cercle de Genealogie Juive, Paris, France
http://www.genealoj.org

Jan Bousse <boussejan@pandora.be@telenet-ops.be> a écrit dans le message :
3A2CC015.31CA63FD@pandora.be...
If I understand Marie Lubman correctly, she is interested in telephone
directories in France >from the 1930s.
I found that the Bibliothèque Nationale de France at Tolbiac,
Paris, has, on microfilm, all the telephone books of France

I would be interested to know more about the collection at the Hotel de
Ville de Paris, as mentioned by Micheline Gutmann. Are they as complete,
in paper or also on microfilm? I hope Micheline could enlighten me and
the List. Thanks.

Jan Bousse, Oostende, Belgium.


Foreign Characters in Windows #general

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

Is there a site with instructions and/or hot keys for typing European
characters in Windows programmes - particularly Czech, Hungarian, Polish &
German.

Thanks for any help
Gary

Gary Luke
feraltek@zeta.org.au
Sydney, Australia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Foreign Characters in Windows #general

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

Is there a site with instructions and/or hot keys for typing European
characters in Windows programmes - particularly Czech, Hungarian, Polish &
German.

Thanks for any help
Gary

Gary Luke
feraltek@zeta.org.au
Sydney, Australia